BoxRec

cutsman wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

CharlesListon wrote:
Amen to that. Not wishing to sound like a troll or arrogant but its obvious that some posters have never actually boxed, or been involved with boxing.They are of course still entitled to their opinions, some of which are valuable and there are some seriously knowledgeable posters on here.

Tyson (Mike) was so proportionate that he was going to be a nightmare, there was nothing wasted with him. I'd rather be his build than Fury's build. It's so easy to look like an oaf or clumsy at that height.

Ali was perfectly proportioned. From a distance you'd never have known he was 6'3''ish.

There we go, I did it.

Tyson Fury compared to Ali in a few easy steps.

GOAT

I only boxed as a kid, so can't claim any great insight, but surely it's blindingly obvious that in general big gangly blokes won't be as mobile or agile as shorter, stockier more regularly proportioned ones...

I'm sure Usain Bolt, at 6ft 5 would disagree

Usain bolt only runs in straight lines, or round bends, he may be quick, that doesn't make him mobile or agile. We're not talking about sprinting here are we?

In addition, Bolt is highly unusual in the rate of leg turnover he can achieve and the power he is able to generate at the start. Whilst we may find more 6 foot 5 100 meter runners, it's very unlikely to become the norm, as usually that height confers disadvantages is power to weight ratio which affects performance. Bolt is hugely powerful with a very unusual shape, being hugely broad shouldered with very long legs, and a very powerful upper body and tiny waist. There's very few people built like that. He's a bit like the Thomas Hearns of athletics.

Bolt is the exception that proves the rule.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

cutsman wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I only boxed as a kid, so can't claim any great insight, but surely it's blindingly obvious that in general big gangly blokes won't be as mobile or agile as shorter, stockier more regularly proportioned ones...

I'm sure Usain Bolt, at 6ft 5 would disagree

Usain bolt only runs in straight lines, or round bends, he may be quick, that doesn't make him mobile or agile. We're not talking about sprinting here are we?

In addition, Bolt is highly unusual in the rate of leg turnover he can achieve and the power he is able to generate at the start. Whilst we may find more 6 foot 5 100 meter runners, it's very unlikely to become the norm, as usually that height confers disadvantages is power to weight ratio which affects performance. Bolt is hugely powerful with a very unusual shape, being hugely broad shouldered with very long legs, and a very powerful upper body and tiny waist. There's very few people built like that. He's a bit like the Thomas Hearns of athletics.

Bolt is the exception that proves the rule.

Also running fast for short distances it all he does. He doesnt need skills, heart, courage, adjustment,adaptability, to excel in many areas. He just runs fast

reggaereggae wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

cutsman wrote:
I'm sure Usain Bolt, at 6ft 5 would disagree

Usain bolt only runs in straight lines, or round bends, he may be quick, that doesn't make him mobile or agile. We're not talking about sprinting here are we?

In addition, Bolt is highly unusual in the rate of leg turnover he can achieve and the power he is able to generate at the start. Whilst we may find more 6 foot 5 100 meter runners, it's very unlikely to become the norm, as usually that height confers disadvantages is power to weight ratio which affects performance. Bolt is hugely powerful with a very unusual shape, being hugely broad shouldered with very long legs, and a very powerful upper body and tiny waist. There's very few people built like that. He's a bit like the Thomas Hearns of athletics.

Bolt is the exception that proves the rule.

Also running fast for short distances it all he does. He doesnt need skills, heart, courage, adjustment,adaptability, to excel in many areas. He just runs fast

I agree. Though my point was not that Usain Bolt would make a good boxer, just that tall men can be mobile and agile.

cutsman wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Usain bolt only runs in straight lines, or round bends, he may be quick, that doesn't make him mobile or agile. We're not talking about sprinting here are we?

In addition, Bolt is highly unusual in the rate of leg turnover he can achieve and the power he is able to generate at the start. Whilst we may find more 6 foot 5 100 meter runners, it's very unlikely to become the norm, as usually that height confers disadvantages is power to weight ratio which affects performance. Bolt is hugely powerful with a very unusual shape, being hugely broad shouldered with very long legs, and a very powerful upper body and tiny waist. There's very few people built like that. He's a bit like the Thomas Hearns of athletics.

Bolt is the exception that proves the rule.

Also running fast for short distances it all he does. He doesnt need skills, heart, courage, adjustment,adaptability, to excel in many areas. He just runs fast

I agree. Though my point was not that Usain Bolt would make a good boxer, just that tall men can be mobile and agile.

Yes, and as more humans get bigger, more likely it is that more coordinated big humans appear.

mickey1975 wrote:He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

Charlie Z should be locked up for what he done to floyd mayweather snr and the guy he was meant to fight in a ring then bitched out then decided to snide one on him in the changin rooms,charlie z is a sandwich short of a picnic but he knows what he is saying and doing and knows the consiquences of his actions

reggaereggae wrote:

cutsman wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:
Also running fast for short distances it all he does. He doesnt need skills, heart, courage, adjustment,adaptability, to excel in many areas. He just runs fast

I agree. Though my point was not that Usain Bolt would make a good boxer, just that tall men can be mobile and agile.

Yes, and as more humans get bigger, more likely it is that more coordinated big humans appear.

Well statistically this is true. However, you cannot overcome physics, longer levers and a higher centre of gravity is going to mean that bigger men are not going to be as agile, it's simple physics. Also, the more mass you have the more the heart muscle has to work, there's limits to everything, and there are tradeoffs. There's never been a really big man who was able to fight like Tyson, and there never will be, it's just not physically possible.

cutsman wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Usain bolt only runs in straight lines, or round bends, he may be quick, that doesn't make him mobile or agile. We're not talking about sprinting here are we?

In addition, Bolt is highly unusual in the rate of leg turnover he can achieve and the power he is able to generate at the start. Whilst we may find more 6 foot 5 100 meter runners, it's very unlikely to become the norm, as usually that height confers disadvantages is power to weight ratio which affects performance. Bolt is hugely powerful with a very unusual shape, being hugely broad shouldered with very long legs, and a very powerful upper body and tiny waist. There's very few people built like that. He's a bit like the Thomas Hearns of athletics.

Bolt is the exception that proves the rule.

Also running fast for short distances it all he does. He doesnt need skills, heart, courage, adjustment,adaptability, to excel in many areas. He just runs fast

I agree. Though my point was not that Usain Bolt would make a good boxer, just that tall men can be mobile and agile.

Well, I've not seen any evidence of Bolt's agility. Speed yes, but as said elsewhere, speed in a straight line, aside from running a bend in a 200 meters, which doesn't require agility.

mickey1975 wrote:He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

I agree.

thechump wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

Charlie Z should be locked up for what he done to floyd mayweather snr and the guy he was meant to fight in a ring then bitched out then decided to snide one on him in the changin rooms,charlie z is a sandwich short of a picnic but he knows what he is saying and doing and knows the consiquences of his actions

He's an attention seeking retard , , He was getting a lesson of Floyd snr , and sucker punched him ,, then got an hiding of someone else , he runs from people stops and chants i won i won . The kid is a knob for sure , but a retarded knob ,

Point being , they know what he's like , so when they allow him in that gym and allow him to spar floyd snr , there taking the piss out of him , then when he does the shit he does and sucker punches Floyd , they want to kill him. Wilder is a big man and responded to Charlies Taunts and bashed him , not only that but seeked him out ,, , Famous people have nutters stalk them and follow them all the time , you don't hear of them sending there bodygaurds to seek them out and bash them ,,, they ignore it , and if it gets serious they call the police .. Thats what wilder should of done .

Regards floyd well he's an attention seeking fuckwit has well ,, he allowed a known Idiot with a capitol IDIOT in his gym and then sparred him in front of a crowd , he was taking the piss out of the IDIOT .

coneye wrote:

thechump wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

Charlie Z should be locked up for what he done to floyd mayweather snr and the guy he was meant to fight in a ring then bitched out then decided to snide one on him in the changin rooms,charlie z is a sandwich short of a picnic but he knows what he is saying and doing and knows the consiquences of his actions

He's an attention seeking retard , , He was getting a lesson of Floyd snr , and sucker punched him ,, then got an hiding of someone else , he runs from people stops and chants i won i won . The kid is a knob for sure , but a retarded knob ,

Point being , they know what he's like , so when they allow him in that gym and allow him to spar floyd snr , there taking the piss out of him , then when he does the poo he does and sucker punches Floyd , they want to kill him. Wilder is a big man and responded to Charlies Taunts and bashed him , not only that but seeked him out ,, , Famous people have nutters stalk them and follow them all the time , you don't hear of them sending there bodygaurds to seek them out and bash them ,,, they ignore it , and if it gets serious they call the police .. Thats what wilder should of done .

Regards floyd well he's an attention seeking fuckwit has well ,, he allowed a known Idiot with a capitol IDIOT in his gym and then sparred him in front of a crowd , he was taking the piss out of the IDIOT .

Zelenoff is clearly a cucumber sandwich short of a tea party - it's very irresponsible for a professional heavyweight to be fighting him, his people should never ever have allowed that.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

cutsman wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:
Also running fast for short distances it all he does. He doesnt need skills, heart, courage, adjustment,adaptability, to excel in many areas. He just runs fast

I agree. Though my point was not that Usain Bolt would make a good boxer, just that tall men can be mobile and agile.

Well, I've not seen any evidence of Bolt's agility. Speed yes, but as said elsewhere, speed in a straight line, aside from running a bend in a 200 meters, which doesn't require agility.

Are you kidding? Bolt is arguably the most agile person in history!

FrozenMixedVegtables wrote:

thechump wrote:At the end if the day playing up to pantomine antics or not that was effin embarrassing,wilder just had a fight and was being interviewed why did this clown have to do all this? effing idiot, wilder will splat him like an annoying fly

. People probably think he's a good boxer because he has the black and slick look. Fvckin idiots.

That's a bit racist innit? and to follow it up with an insult...

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

CharlesListon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
I agree with all of that. I have noticed and I don't know if you have. Wilder does this thing now and again, which I think is subconscious, where he straightens on of his legs and looks off balance. This isn't when he has been punched, just when he's moving about and sometimes before he gets into position.

Its actually hard being a tall hw. Its harder to control your limbs unless you opt for the robotic style. I can't explain it any better than that.

Yes, that's one of the things that constantly amazes me, that people cannot see the disadvantages of being so big. Higher centre of gravity, longer levers, it all generates inertia, and forces that have to be compensated for, and requires better footwork to maintain balance.

I'd say Fury is better on his feet than Wilder, who does look off balance a lot of the time, I've not watched Wilder closely enough to notice the thing with his leg, but It's not surprising, he's pretty gangly, and rocks around when throwing his shots.

Lennox Lewis was pretty coordinated for a man of 6 foot 5, but he was hardly Wayne Sleep out there.

Wladimir for a big man is very well balanced though i'd say.

mickey1975 wrote:He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

Pretty sure that if that had happened in the UK, he'd have been in deep shit.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

cutsman wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:
Also running fast for short distances it all he does. He doesnt need skills, heart, courage, adjustment,adaptability, to excel in many areas. He just runs fast

I agree. Though my point was not that Usain Bolt would make a good boxer, just that tall men can be mobile and agile.

Well, I've not seen any evidence of Bolt's agility. Speed yes, but as said elsewhere, speed in a straight line, aside from running a bend in a 200 meters, which doesn't require agility.

I'd say that Ronaldo is pretty agile considering his body type. I know he's not "tall tall" but he's got a naturally gangly body type which he has put muscle on over time but he's still pretty long and rangy looking but can he can turn and pivot at great speed.

Christophe Lemaitre is another one that also does the 200 metres, etc, which does include running in to bends and he's got a long limbed body type.

coneye wrote:

thechump wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

Charlie Z should be locked up for what he done to floyd mayweather snr and the guy he was meant to fight in a ring then bitched out then decided to snide one on him in the changin rooms,charlie z is a sandwich short of a picnic but he knows what he is saying and doing and knows the consiquences of his actions

He's an attention seeking retard , , He was getting a lesson of Floyd snr , and sucker punched him ,, then got an hiding of someone else , he runs from people stops and chants i won i won . The kid is a knob for sure , but a retarded knob ,

Point being , they know what he's like , so when they allow him in that gym and allow him to spar floyd snr , there taking the piss out of him , then when he does the poo he does and sucker punches Floyd , they want to kill him. Wilder is a big man and responded to Charlies Taunts and bashed him , not only that but seeked him out ,, , Famous people have nutters stalk them and follow them all the time , you don't hear of them sending there bodygaurds to seek them out and bash them ,,, they ignore it , and if it gets serious they call the police .. Thats what wilder should of done .

Regards floyd well he's an attention seeking fuckwit has well ,, he allowed a known Idiot with a capitol IDIOT in his gym and then sparred him in front of a crowd , he was taking the piss out of the IDIOT .

He's mentally ill though mate. You cant go round battering schizophrenics and people who are clearly in the grips of severe mental illness. Well you can but it's not right.

lefty wrote:

coneye wrote:

thechump wrote: Charlie Z should be locked up for what he done to floyd mayweather snr and the guy he was meant to fight in a ring then bitched out then decided to snide one on him in the changin rooms,charlie z is a sandwich short of a picnic but he knows what he is saying and doing and knows the consiquences of his actions

He's an attention seeking retard , , He was getting a lesson of Floyd snr , and sucker punched him ,, then got an hiding of someone else , he runs from people stops and chants i won i won . The kid is a knob for sure , but a retarded knob ,

Point being , they know what he's like , so when they allow him in that gym and allow him to spar floyd snr , there taking the piss out of him , then when he does the poo he does and sucker punches Floyd , they want to kill him. Wilder is a big man and responded to Charlies Taunts and bashed him , not only that but seeked him out ,, , Famous people have nutters stalk them and follow them all the time , you don't hear of them sending there bodygaurds to seek them out and bash them ,,, they ignore it , and if it gets serious they call the police .. Thats what wilder should of done .

Regards floyd well he's an attention seeking fuckwit has well ,, he allowed a known Idiot with a capitol IDIOT in his gym and then sparred him in front of a crowd , he was taking the piss out of the IDIOT .

He's mentally ill though mate. You cant go round battering schizophrenics and people who are clearly in the grips of severe mental illness. Well you can but it's not right.

Who Floyd or Charlie ,,

FrozenMixedVegtables wrote:

magwitch wrote:

FrozenMixedVegtables wrote:
. People probably think he's a good boxer because he has the black and slick look. Fvckin idiots.

That's a bit racist innit? and to follow it up with an insult...

gangsta/pimp look. So many great fighters in the past had that thing going on that fans think any black guy in the sport with the G look/act must be an amazing boxer.

what's that then, "gangsta/ pimp look"? Oh...you must mean that black look, right? .... yeah. Dem pimps must always be workin' out.

lefty wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

cutsman wrote:
I agree. Though my point was not that Usain Bolt would make a good boxer, just that tall men can be mobile and agile.

Well, I've not seen any evidence of Bolt's agility. Speed yes, but as said elsewhere, speed in a straight line, aside from running a bend in a 200 meters, which doesn't require agility.

I'd say that Ronaldo is pretty agile considering his body type. I know he's not "tall tall" but he's got a naturally gangly body type which he has put muscle on over time but he's still pretty long and rangy looking but can he can turn and pivot at great speed.

Christophe Lemaitre is another one that also does the 200 metres, etc, which does include running in to bends and he's got a long limbed body type.

Ronaldo is under 6 foot 2 - that's just not relevant to our discussion. He is not gangly at all.

As discussed before, running a 200 meter bend doesn't require much agility, you're just running around a gentle curve, not at all comparable with boxing.

FrozenMixedVegtables wrote:

magwitch wrote:

FrozenMixedVegtables wrote:
gangsta/pimp look.
what's that then, "gangsta/ pimp look"? Oh...you must mean that black look, right? .... yeah. Dem pimps must always be workin' out.

It is a black look tho isn't it?

A white man can look black with the pimp outfit.

lefty wrote:

Christophe Lemaitre is another one that also does the 200 metres, etc, which does include running in to bends and he's got a long limbed body type.

I have yet to discover the correlation between being able to run around a bend and being able to box. in fact I have yet to see a correlation between being able to run around a bend and 'agility'. or frankly any other fine motor skills.

anyway whoever made the wider point, James i think, is correct. the skills of boxing are exponentially more difficult at 6'3 or above than they are at 5'10 or whatever, for exactly the reasons James gave. I know this, as I am 6'3 and spend half my life wishing i had been born a 5'5 Mexican... (sigh)

Try and stoop and grow a mustache.

Counter-puncher wrote:anyway whoever made the wider point, James i think, is correct. the skills of boxing are exponentially more difficult at 6'3 or above than they are at 5'10 or whatever, for exactly the reasons James gave. I know this, as I am 6'3 and spend half my life wishing i had been born a 5'5 Mexican... (sigh)

Strange comment. I'd see it the other way round. Taking raw ability out of it and just going off repetition you could do more with a 6'3" frame than a 5'5" frame, I'd have thought.

magwitch wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:anyway whoever made the wider point, James i think, is correct. the skills of boxing are exponentially more difficult at 6'3 or above than they are at 5'10 or whatever, for exactly the reasons James gave. I know this, as I am 6'3 and spend half my life wishing i had been born a 5'5 Mexican... (sigh)

Strange comment. I'd see it the other way round. Taking raw ability out of it and just going off repetition you could do more with a 6'3" frame than a 5'5" frame, I'd have thought.

you'd have thought wrong.

see james' earlier post, longer limbs, inertia, more problems with balance and coordination, the taller you are the more ducking under punches becomes a non-option, etc etc etc

just one sort of example, in terms of hand-eye coordination, which is the easier punch to time correctly- one delivered from 32" away from the (moving) target, or one delivered from 24" away from the (moving) target?