BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
It does seem odd to me that he would pass the test before the fight, then start necking Clenbutorol to burn body fat - which wouldn't work in that space of time, and would have potentially adverse side effects.

Something smells a bit off to me here.

Lucas Browne has claimed he was tested by VADA when he first arrived in Grozny and the result was NEGATIVE - and in order to verify it, here is a copy of the test:

gregor wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:Clenbuterol won't help you win a fight.

Well, it depends.

If Browne was got it just once before the fight (assuming he was framed), then you are right, it was not likely to be a factor.

It would be quite different though if he was using it on regular basis...

It's a fat stripping drug, not a performance enhancer. If he used it in the lead up he will have lost fat...at the cost of internal body temps of 100, high blood pressure, no stamina, burning lungs, decreased sleep.

I have provided a link on its benefits, usage, and side effects upthread.

There is just no way he would gain any advantage.

What is more likely is that it hampered his performance.

koolkc107 wrote:I have provided a link on its benefits, usage, and side effects upthread.

There is just no way he would gain any advantage.

What is more likely is that it hampered his performance.

It doesn't add up for me I'm afraid, something's wrong here.

clenbuterol is a PED https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuter ... ncing_drug

dickbelden wrote:clenbuterol is a PED https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuter ... ncing_drug

Clenbuterol is said to be anabolic in muscle tissue by many in the bodybuilding community. The truth is that Clenbuterol is only minimally anabolic in muscle tissue, and that this has primarily been found to be the case in animals rather than humans (which also requires a long period of use before any of these effects rise to any semblance of a measurable level)...

https://www.steroidal.com/fat-loss-agents/clenbuterol/

A read, but maybe worth it.

Ask yourself this question.

A few days before the biggest fight of your life against a dangerous opponent and not only will it have little or no benefit but
YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE SOMETHING THAT CAN DO THIS TO YOU IN THE RING?

Common Side Effects Associated With Clenbuterol

It has been previously touched upon that Clenbuterol side effects share the most common side effects associated with the whole stimulant family of drugs: tremors (shaky hands), insomnia, sweating, headaches, heightened blood pressure, and nausea. Individuals using Clenbuterol are most likely to experience these side effects, as they are side effects that are fairly common and most users will more than likely experience them. When the topics of side effects are discussed, it must be understood that various users may be sensitive (or even hypersensitive) or certain side effects while others may not be. Therefore, the total responsibility falls upon the individual themselves as to whether or not to act accordingly depending on their response level and type to certain side effects. This also includes various unforeseen side effects such as allergic reactions (rashes, hives), which are generally very rare with Clen but there do exist users that succumb to allergic reactions. In any case, the majority of the common stimulant side effects shared among the whole stimulant family generally subside with use, as the body becomes accustomed to the effects of the drug.

Tremors: This is perhaps the most common Clenbuterol side effect touted across the world by users. Tremors resulting from Clenbuterol use tend to be far more pronounced with Clenbuterol than with other stimulant drugs. Other stimulants such as Caffeine or Ephedrine do in fact exhibit this same side effect, but it is far less pronounced. There is unfortunately no ‘cure’ for this Clenbuterol side effect, but the tremors tend to frequently subside with regular use as the body becomes slowly accustomed to dosing protocol. Hence, this is one of the important reasons for a slow ramp-up in dosing when beginning Clenbuterol use. The majority of users tend to report diminished intensity of tremors during the later weeks of Clenbuterol use due to the body acclimatizing to the stimulant.

Insomnia: A frequently reported Clenbuterol side effect, however, insomnia is a common side effect associated with any stimulant. The primary issue with insomnia where Clenbuterol is concerned is with its extremely long half-life of 37 hours. It is because of this that many users have suffered insomnia as a side effect. There are many users who have also reported the ability to be able to sleep normally as well, indicating that the insomnia side effect may only affect users sensitive to this side effect. Those who do experience it have also reported the incidence of insomnia becoming less and less as time on the drug passes, once again due to the body becoming accustomed to the stimulant effects.

Sweating: Clenbuterol is a Beta-2 agonist, and triggers lipolysis (fat breakdown) through this pathway. The result is more adipose tissue (fat tissue) being utilized as a fuel source. What results from this is an increase in heat as a result of more fats being metabolized and utilized as energy. The resulting thermogenic (heat generating) effect comes in the form of an increase in body temperature. The end result of this increased body temperature is of course increase perspiration (sweating). The elevation in temperature should normally be no higher than approximately 0.5 – 1 degree, and sometimes slightly higher than that. This increase in body temperature is rarely ever uncomfortable, but can often result in increased perspiration (especially in a hotter ambient environment).

Increased blood pressure and headaches: Elevated blood pressure and headaches are commonly associated with one another in a cause and effect relationship. Rising blood pressure (as a result of vasoconstriction in most areas of the body) usually leads to an increase in the incidence and severity of headaches. Blood pressure elevations tend to decrease with continued use as the body becomes accustomed to the stimulant, but often times this will not be the case and every user must be aware of this. Therefore, all individuals using Clenbuterol should monitor blood pressure frequently throughout Clenbuterol use and to ensure that levels do not rise to higher dangerous levels. Dangerously high levels of blood pressure have commonly been touted as ‘the silent killer’ due to the fact that rarely will individuals with dangerously high blood pressure ever ‘feel’ anything wrong with them. It is a highly recommended decision to abstain from Clenbuterol use if an individual knowingly possesses a history of blood pressure issues and hypertension. In such a situation, the individual were to use Clenbuterol, these conditions can and will worsen. Some factors that can be monitored and controlled to deal with elevated blood pressure are control of sodium intake and any possible consumption of other CNS stimulants (such as Caffeine, Ephedrine, etc.) while using Clenbuterol, especially the stronger prescription stimulants such as Adderall (Amphetamines) and anything similar.

Nausea: This side effect is generally associated with anything administered orally, and includes food. Any substance ingested and passed through the digestive system always has potential to cause nausea in individuals, especially those sensitive to this particular side effect. Stimulants themselves can actually further potentiate this side effect, where individuals who possess a hypersensitivity to stimulants can experience nausea from the stimulant side effects themselves rather than the issue of stomach sensitivity.

Muscle cramps: This is one particular side effect that is unique to Clenbuterol side effects. Many users report muscle cramps during use of Beta-2 agonists such as Clenbuterol or Albuterol. Studies have demonstrated that the use of Clenbuterol depletes levels of the amino acid Taurine both in muscle tissue as well as serum blood plasma[1][2]. Taurine, Magnesium, Potassium, and Sodium all play important key roles in the regulatory functioning of the bioelectrical nerve impulses and nerve signals that control the contraction and relaxation of all types of muscle tissue. The depletion of Taurine in this particular case can lead to a disruption in this function, and what results are involuntary and often painful muscle cramps. The solution to solving the uncomfortable cramping is that of Taurine supplementation daily during the use of Clenbuterol at a dose of approximately 2.5 – 5 grams daily and is also dependent on each individual and how they respond in particular to this side effect.

https://www.steroidal.com/fat-loss-agen ... e-effects/

dickbelden wrote:clenbuterol is a PED https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuter ... ncing_drug

Clenbuterol is not PED in the sense most think of it as.

I am exposed to people using different PED's all the time, and have quite a bit of experience/knolwedge with Clen (including losing a friend at age 24 from a heat induced cardiovascular death). If you think taking Clen five days before a fight is a good idea, talk to the high level bodybuilders who can't walk up a flight of steps without chest pains and heavy breathing when on. To say nothing of the dripping sweat and sleeplessness that follows. It's not good stuff for physical activity.

I just cannot see why Brown would have taken this, what possible advantage would it have inferred, barring appeasing his vanity when he looked in a mirror - going into the biggest fight of his career, it makes absolutely no sense.

I have to say, a stitch-up or accidental ingestion of something contaminated seems the only plausible answer to me.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I just cannot see why Brown would have taken this, what possible advantage would it have inferred, barring appeasing his vanity when he looked in a mirror - going into the biggest fight of his career, it makes absolutely no sense.

I have to say, a stitch-up or accidental ingestion of something contaminated seems the only plausible answer to me.

If they didn't catch it in a blood test less than a week before the fight, they wouldn't catch it in a urine test after. There is no reason for him to use it within a week of the fight. I could say that 100 times and some morons would still say "VADA does not make mistakes, so he is guilty".

when is the suspension expected to b announced ?

Badhusker wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I just cannot see why Brown would have taken this, what possible advantage would it have inferred, barring appeasing his vanity when he looked in a mirror - going into the biggest fight of his career, it makes absolutely no sense.

I have to say, a stitch-up or accidental ingestion of something contaminated seems the only plausible answer to me.

If they didn't catch it in a blood test less than a week before the fight, they wouldn't catch it in a urine test after. There is no reason for him to use it within a week of the fight. I could say that 100 times and some morons would still say "VADA does not make mistakes, so he is guilty".

Clearly it's nothing to do wit Vada, I smell a rat.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I just cannot see why Brown would have taken this, what possible advantage would it have inferred, barring appeasing his vanity when he looked in a mirror - going into the biggest fight of his career, it makes absolutely no sense.

I have to say, a stitch-up or accidental ingestion of something contaminated seems the only plausible answer to me.

If they didn't catch it in a blood test less than a week before the fight, they wouldn't catch it in a urine test after. There is no reason for him to use it within a week of the fight. I could say that 100 times and some morons would still say "VADA does not make mistakes, so he is guilty".

Clearly it's nothing to do wit Vada, I smell a rat.

I ask again, can Clenbuterol be used as a masking agent for a substance that would prove useful on fight night? Could a boxer take a masking agent expecting it to have cleared by fight night and got his calculations wrong?

Sklar wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Badhusker wrote:
If they didn't catch it in a blood test less than a week before the fight, they wouldn't catch it in a urine test after. There is no reason for him to use it within a week of the fight. I could say that 100 times and some morons would still say "VADA does not make mistakes, so he is guilty".

Clearly it's nothing to do wit Vada, I smell a rat.

I ask again, can Clenbuterol be used as a masking agent for a substance that would prove useful on fight night? Could a boxer take a masking agent expecting it to have cleared by fight night and got his calculations wrong?

Does anybody know the answer to the first question above? The answer to the second question is definitely 'yes'. The answer to the first question I am less sure of. If it is 'no' then I'm strongly leaning towards Lucas being set-up. If it's 'yes', history points to him likely being guilty - I have heard mention of Clen being used as a masking agent but not seen any real detail. I hope it's 'no' and he's just been stitched up.

Sklar wrote:

Sklar wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Clearly it's nothing to do wit Vada, I smell a rat.

I ask again, can Clenbuterol be used as a masking agent for a substance that would prove useful on fight night? Could a boxer take a masking agent expecting it to have cleared by fight night and got his calculations wrong?

Does anybody know the answer to the first question above? The answer to the second question is definitely 'yes'. The answer to the first question I am less sure of. If it is 'no' then I'm strongly leaning towards Lucas being set-up. If it's 'yes', history points to him likely being guilty - I have heard mention of Clen being used as a masking agent but not seen any real detail. I hope it's 'no' and he's just been stitched up.

I looked and read a lot, but cannot find any evidence that it is a masking agent. It has a different classification of a diuretic, which is normally what is used as a masking agent. Originally it was the main ingredient in asthma medication. It is illegal to use or buy in the U.S. It is illegal to use, but in Browne's case he would get no benefit using it so close to the fight. Most side effects are bad enough I doubt any, or few boxers use it. It just seems fishy that a random blood test + urine test didn't catch it, but urine a week later did? If Browne is innocent, I hope he keeps fighting the good fight. If found guilty, takes his punishment like a man and moves on.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are not disputing that VADA caught Clenbuterol in the urine test. They are disputing how it got there.

Clen is not a masking agent, and I've never heard it used at such. There are MUCH cheaper, simpler methods of masking that don't make you feel like the walking dead.

Well, if it's not a masking agent, I'm backing Lucas. However, and this isn't to say you two and your respective research sources are incorrect, you're probably dead on, my only niggling doubt is that I've heard rumours of it being used to mask other drugs - but there's probably nothing on earth that hasn't been rumoured.

Some cyclists are deffo saying it's a mask but putting that aside for a moment...

...another thing that cyclists are saying is that by micro-dosing some of guys can pass standard tests but when they're doping passport looks a little strange or wn athlete improves or changes shape dramatically, by then subjecting samples to more stringent/advanced testing in better labs (one in Cologne is often cited) their samples come back dirty. Were Lucas' pre-fight and post fight tests analysed in the same lab using the same standard of equipment?

koolkc107 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: And clenbuterol, of all things, just doesn't work in days- you need weeks of it daily
Got any explanations?

You don't need weeks of it, the peak is after 8 days and after 14 it doesn't work any more. Bodybuilders use it two weeks off, two weeks on.

Ok, I'll bite.

Given what you are contending about clenbuterol, tell me how he passes a test days earlier then fails it post-fight.

I'll wait...

Testing for Clen has advanced & can be detected as far back as 2 weeks prior, Testing can find an amount of a trillionth of a gram, A urine test can be passed by loading up on water in prep for a test, Ariza a known PED giver to his fighters would always make them load up on water.

Batley18 wrote:Seems rather suspect to me. We can all speculate until blue in the face, but we don't really know what Lucas Browne is like. The two arguments I would have are:

1. Given how active Hatton would be in his preparations, and probably his nutrition, I cannot see any chance that he would allow something like this to happen.

2. Given that doping checks are done regularly (at least we hope so), it would seem odd to risk getting caught during a World title fight. I expected Browne to win the fight, and I am sure he did as well, so surely he didn't feel the need to cheat.

Anyway, who really knows.

Hatton active In his preparations? He couldn't even drag his arse to the fight

GhostBoxing15 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote: You don't need weeks of it, the peak is after 8 days and after 14 it doesn't work any more. Bodybuilders use it two weeks off, two weeks on.

Ok, I'll bite.

Given what you are contending about clenbuterol, tell me how he passes a test days earlier then fails it post-fight.

I'll wait...

Testing for Clen has advanced & can be detected as far back as 2 weeks prior, Testing can find an amount of a trillionth of a gram, A urine test can be passed by loading up on water in prep for a test, Ariza a known PED giver to his fighters would always make them load up on water.

He PASSED a blood and urine test that was taken upon his arrival in Chechnya just days before the fight.

Passed.

The results are posted in this thread.

He failed a postfight urine test.

Meaning the clenbuterol was introduced into his system just days before the fight.

Clenbuterol, a substance that is not a great masking agent if it is one at all
and has no benefit whatsoever performance-wise in so short a time.

But, it is perfect if you are trying to make sure a guy pops dirty after a fight...

Testing for Clen has advanced & can be detected as far back as 2 weeks prior, Testing can find an amount of a trillionth of a gram, A urine test can be passed by loading up on water in prep for a test, Ariza a known PED giver to his fighters would always make them load up on water.[/quote]

koolkc107 wrote:

He PASSED a blood and urine test that was taken upon his arrival in Chechnya just days before the fight.

Passed.

The results are posted in this thread.

He failed a postfight urine test.

Meaning the clenbuterol was introduced into his system just days before the fight.

Clenbuterol, a substance that is not a great masking agent if it is one at all
and has no benefit whatsoever performance-wise in so short a time.

But, it is perfect if you are trying to make sure a guy pops dirty after a fight...

[/quote]

results?? It's an email from VADA, not a laboratory report! Doesn't even state that Clenbutirol was tested for in pre fight testing, If you read the email it says preliminary findings. I don't think the public have been given enough information to even determine he was Clean! It's simply says he passed testing wherever was tested for

GhostBoxing15 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
Testing for Clen has advanced & can be detected as far back as 2 weeks prior, Testing can find an amount of a trillionth of a gram, A urine test can be passed by loading up on water in prep for a test, Ariza a known PED giver to his fighters would always make them load up on water.

He PASSED a blood and urine test that was taken upon his arrival in Chechnya just days before the fight.

Passed.

The results are posted in this thread.

He failed a postfight urine test.

Meaning the clenbuterol was introduced into his system just days before the fight.

Clenbuterol, a substance that is not a great masking agent if it is one at all
and has no benefit whatsoever performance-wise in so short a time.

But, it is perfect if you are trying to make sure a guy pops dirty after a fight...

results?? It's an email from VADA, not a laboratory report! Doesn't even state that Clenbutirol was tested for in pre fight testing, If you read the email it says preliminary findings. I don't think the public have been given enough information to even determine he was Clean! It's simply says he passed testing wherever was tested for[/quote]


VADA would make a statement challenging team Browne's claims regarding the pre-fight test if what they are saying is incorrect.

Brownes team aren't challenging VADA, but the public don't even know if Clen was tested for PRE fight, VADA don't go public, it will eventually all come out, but it's naive to say your "CLEAN" when he didn't even understand the news when it came out, would he even have the IQ to know of everything he was tested for? Or would his legal team spell it out for him

For what it is worth, it was Browne's team that requested random VADA testing in the first place.

GhostBoxing15 wrote:Brownes team aren't challenging VADA, but the public don't even know if Clen was tested for PRE fight, VADA don't go public, it will eventually all come out, but it's naive to say your "CLEAN" when he didn't even understand the news when it came out, would he even have the IQ to know of everything he was tested for? Or would his legal team spell it out for him

Correct. Browne isn't challenging VADA.

But Browne is claiming he tested clean for clenbuterol in his VADA test of February 29th and VADA has not so far challenged Browne on that claim.