BoxRec

"I guess he's quite entertaining in the sense that he's very unpredictable, but he's not exactly on a par with Ali" - jamesmcdonnell
We agree, he's nowhere near the level of Ali. I've never once hear Tyson be racist on National TV...

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Big deal. I know loads of people I knocked about with who knocked out coke and puff when they were young. guess what, they were selling it to people who wanted to buy it - it's a bloody service - unless you believe it's people standing outside school gates with bags of crack and heroin trying to entice young kids.

its illegal you goof.
"they were selling it to people who wanted to buy it - it's a bloody service" pimp ok as a career choice aswell then?
I would rather have a preacher stood on my street corner talking all day than have a drug dealer on the corner dealing all day...

I couldn't give a poo about the legality. Drug laws do way more harm than they do good, even the police and the governments own commissioners agree with that. I've been caning it for years, nobody ever forced me to buy anything, and I'm fit healthy and have a good job.

I don't lie awake at night worrying about either Joshua or Fury, but I find Fury's views way more disturbing than the fact AJ knocked out a bit of coke, I see no moral panic in it whatsoever. Rites of passage for a lot of people.

I may have allegedly did some last night, still early to work and running things.

wesshaw1985 wrote:"I guess he's quite entertaining in the sense that he's very unpredictable, but he's not exactly on a par with Ali" - jamesmcdonnell
We agree, he's nowhere near the level of Ali. I've never once hear Tyson be racist on National TV...

I think you know what I meant.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: its illegal you goof.
"they were selling it to people who wanted to buy it - it's a bloody service" pimp ok as a career choice aswell then?
I would rather have a preacher stood on my street corner talking all day than have a drug dealer on the corner dealing all day...

I couldn't give a poo about the legality. Drug laws do way more harm than they do good, even the police and the governments own commissioners agree with that. I've been caning it for years, nobody ever forced me to buy anything, and I'm fit healthy and have a good job.

I don't lie awake at night worrying about either Joshua or Fury, but I find Fury's views way more disturbing than the fact AJ knocked out a bit of coke, I see no moral panic in it whatsoever. Rites of passage for a lot of people.

I may have allegedly did some last night, still early to work and running things.

Good lad -

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:"I guess he's quite entertaining in the sense that he's very unpredictable, but he's not exactly on a par with Ali" - jamesmcdonnell
We agree, he's nowhere near the level of Ali. I've never once hear Tyson be racist on National TV...

I think you know what I meant.

no sir I don't, you are now quoting another man whos past comments were swept under the rug in favour of huge amounts of praise.
Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.
Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ
now if Tyson said this?

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:"I guess he's quite entertaining in the sense that he's very unpredictable, but he's not exactly on a par with Ali" - jamesmcdonnell
We agree, he's nowhere near the level of Ali. I've never once hear Tyson be racist on National TV...

I think you know what I meant.

no sir I don't, you are now quoting another man whos past comments were swept under the rug in favour of huge amounts of praise.
Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.
Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ
now if Tyson said this?

Ali was definitely a racist, certainly at one point of his life - I'm no Ali apologist. He did some hateful things during his time - especially his treatment of Joe Frazier.

Anyway, it appears we're in an intractable battle here, between people who can see why Tyson isn't as popular as he'd like to be (despite claims that he doesn't give a toss) - and those who think it's a huge injustice cooked up by dungaree wearing LGBT activists who want to cut his penis off.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I think you know what I meant.

no sir I don't, you are now quoting another man whos past comments were swept under the rug in favour of huge amounts of praise.
Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.
Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ
now if Tyson said this?

Ali was definitely a racist, certainly at one point of his life - I'm no Ali apologist. He did some hateful things during his time - especially his treatment of Joe Frazier.

Anyway, it appears we're in an intractable battle here, between people who can see why Tyson isn't as popular as he'd like to be (despite claims that he doesn't give a toss) - and those who think it's a huge injustice cooked up by dungaree wearing LGBT activists who want to cut his penis off.

agreed. His treatment of Frazier was deplorable.
However, I don't make the point to attack Ali, Ali wasn't scared to speak his mind. Ali did and said what Ali wanted to and people loved him for it and still do. His mistakes were forgotten and he will forever be remembered for his achievements by society.
Now Tyson does the same today and the same society that applauds and heaps praise on Ali is quick to shoot him down and chastise him for speaking his mind and being open and giving his opinion.
Society has to get a grip, that is my point...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: no sir I don't, you are now quoting another man whos past comments were swept under the rug in favour of huge amounts of praise.
Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.
Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ
now if Tyson said this?

Ali was definitely a racist, certainly at one point of his life - I'm no Ali apologist. He did some hateful things during his time - especially his treatment of Joe Frazier.

Anyway, it appears we're in an intractable battle here, between people who can see why Tyson isn't as popular as he'd like to be (despite claims that he doesn't give a toss) - and those who think it's a huge injustice cooked up by dungaree wearing LGBT activists who want to cut his penis off.

agreed. His treatment of Frazier was deplorable.
However, I don't make the point to attack Ali, Ali wasn't scared to speak his mind. Ali did and said what Ali wanted to and people loved him for it and still do. His mistakes were forgotten and he will forever be remembered for his achievements by society.
Now Tyson does the same today and the same society that applauds and heaps praise on Ali is quick to shoot him down and chastise him for speaking his mind and being open and giving his opinion.
Society has to get a grip, that is my point...

Society has changed an awful lot since Ali was in his pomp, and he got away with a lot because he was perceived to be part of an oppressed minority - which to at least some extent is true - he was also hugely engaging, entertaining, and photogenic, which allowed him to get away with murders. Where Ali went, few men can, or will ever go and leave the earth with such a reputation.

It is definitely a lot more dangerous to run your mouth these days, (though ali certainly was courting disaster doing so in America at that time, and let's be fair, paid the price for some particularly strident views with a spell in Jail) and to be honest I'm glad, I wouldn't want to go back 40 years where you could tell paki jokes on TV (there's a place for that kind of humour, I have Asian mates that I banter with, but that's in private between us) with impugnity, and generally deride people based on their race, sexuality etc.

Therealjudge wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I think you know what I meant.

no sir I don't, you are now quoting another man whos past comments were swept under the rug in favour of huge amounts of praise.
Sports Personality of the Century by the BBC.
Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ
now if Tyson said this?

WESSHAW1985 I whole heartedly commend you sir... You are a legend and a man of my own heart!! I say that sincerely.. And we are born the same year and share the same opinion.. Absolute class for uploading this.. I knew he said it.. I told these blind fools much much earlier in this debate.. Which I'm sure you can vouch for.. Good on you mate.. Effing blinding stuff.. Really.. Nobody mentions this of Muhammad Ali.. You have galvanised what I have been saying from the start.. And for all to see.. In my opinion this is much worse than anything fury has said. Yet we slaughter one white mans flippant joke.. And brush the serious stuff under the carpet.. Just because the media says so.. Once again, stand up and tell it how it is.. Not how might be... Brilliant..

I've got news for you, amongst boxing buffs, this is pretty common knowledge.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ali was definitely a racist, certainly at one point of his life - I'm no Ali apologist. He did some hateful things during his time - especially his treatment of Joe Frazier.

Anyway, it appears we're in an intractable battle here, between people who can see why Tyson isn't as popular as he'd like to be (despite claims that he doesn't give a toss) - and those who think it's a huge injustice cooked up by dungaree wearing LGBT activists who want to cut his penis off.

agreed. His treatment of Frazier was deplorable.
However, I don't make the point to attack Ali, Ali wasn't scared to speak his mind. Ali did and said what Ali wanted to and people loved him for it and still do. His mistakes were forgotten and he will forever be remembered for his achievements by society.
Now Tyson does the same today and the same society that applauds and heaps praise on Ali is quick to shoot him down and chastise him for speaking his mind and being open and giving his opinion.
Society has to get a grip, that is my point...

Society has changed an awful lot since Ali was in his pomp, and he got away with a lot because he was perceived to be part of an oppressed minority - which to at least some extent is true - he was also hugely engaging, entertaining, and photogenic, which allowed him to get away with murders. Where Ali went, few men can, or will ever go and leave the earth with such a reputation.

It is definitely a lot more dangerous to run your mouth these days, (though ali certainly was courting disaster doing so in America at that time, and let's be fair, paid the price for some particularly strident views with a spell in Jail) and to be honest I'm glad, I wouldn't want to go back 40 years where you could tell paki jokes on TV (there's a place for that kind of humour, I have Asian mates that I banter with, but that's in private between us) with impugnity, and generally deride people based on their race, sexuality etc.

Maybe Tyson is 40 years too late. Maybe todays society can't deal with a personality like Tysons.
Society has become pussy-fied, people make it there lifes mission to be offended by anything and everything nowadays.
It should always been dangerous to run your mouth around real people, if you talk too much and somebody calls bullshit and calls you out on it you better be prepared to back it up with fists or you don't believe in that opinion that much do you?
But less and less real people are around nowadays and that leaves us with situations like these.
Sad sad times...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: agreed. His treatment of Frazier was deplorable.
However, I don't make the point to attack Ali, Ali wasn't scared to speak his mind. Ali did and said what Ali wanted to and people loved him for it and still do. His mistakes were forgotten and he will forever be remembered for his achievements by society.
Now Tyson does the same today and the same society that applauds and heaps praise on Ali is quick to shoot him down and chastise him for speaking his mind and being open and giving his opinion.
Society has to get a grip, that is my point...

Society has changed an awful lot since Ali was in his pomp, and he got away with a lot because he was perceived to be part of an oppressed minority - which to at least some extent is true - he was also hugely engaging, entertaining, and photogenic, which allowed him to get away with murders. Where Ali went, few men can, or will ever go and leave the earth with such a reputation.

It is definitely a lot more dangerous to run your mouth these days, (though ali certainly was courting disaster doing so in America at that time, and let's be fair, paid the price for some particularly strident views with a spell in Jail) and to be honest I'm glad, I wouldn't want to go back 40 years where you could tell paki jokes on TV (there's a place for that kind of humour, I have Asian mates that I banter with, but that's in private between us) with impugnity, and generally deride people based on their race, sexuality etc.

Maybe Tyson is 40 years too late. Maybe todays society can't deal with a personality like Tysons.
Society has become pussy-fied, people make it there lifes mission to be offended by anything and everything nowadays.
It should always been dangerous to run your mouth around real people, if you talk too much and somebody calls bullshit and calls you out on it you better be prepared to back it up with fists or you don't believe in that opinion that much do you?
But less and less real people are around nowadays and that leaves us with situations like these.
Sad sad times...

What is this obsession with backing up your opinions with fists. Not everyone is a fighter, being prepared to fight over things doesn't give you the moral high ground.

What's wrong with just disagreeing exactly? Are you telling me that someone prepared to back up their opinion with their fists is therefore in the moral ascendancy, because if you are, then I call bullshit.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Society has changed an awful lot since Ali was in his pomp, and he got away with a lot because he was perceived to be part of an oppressed minority - which to at least some extent is true - he was also hugely engaging, entertaining, and photogenic, which allowed him to get away with murders. Where Ali went, few men can, or will ever go and leave the earth with such a reputation.

It is definitely a lot more dangerous to run your mouth these days, (though ali certainly was courting disaster doing so in America at that time, and let's be fair, paid the price for some particularly strident views with a spell in Jail) and to be honest I'm glad, I wouldn't want to go back 40 years where you could tell paki jokes on TV (there's a place for that kind of humour, I have Asian mates that I banter with, but that's in private between us) with impugnity, and generally deride people based on their race, sexuality etc.

Maybe Tyson is 40 years too late. Maybe todays society can't deal with a personality like Tysons.
Society has become pussy-fied, people make it there lifes mission to be offended by anything and everything nowadays.
It should always been dangerous to run your mouth around real people, if you talk too much and somebody calls bullshit and calls you out on it you better be prepared to back it up with fists or you don't believe in that opinion that much do you?
But less and less real people are around nowadays and that leaves us with situations like these.
Sad sad times...

What is this obsession with backing up your opinions with fists. Not everyone is a fighter, being prepared to fight over things doesn't give you the moral high ground.

What's wrong with just disagreeing exactly? Are you telling me that someone prepared to back up their opinion with their fists is therefore in the moral ascendancy, because if you are, then I call bullshit.

no I'm not saying you have to fight for every opinion but you have to be prepared to. Theres a difference...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: Maybe Tyson is 40 years too late. Maybe todays society can't deal with a personality like Tysons.
Society has become pussy-fied, people make it there lifes mission to be offended by anything and everything nowadays.
It should always been dangerous to run your mouth around real people, if you talk too much and somebody calls bullshit and calls you out on it you better be prepared to back it up with fists or you don't believe in that opinion that much do you?
But less and less real people are around nowadays and that leaves us with situations like these.
Sad sad times...

What is this obsession with backing up your opinions with fists. Not everyone is a fighter, being prepared to fight over things doesn't give you the moral high ground.

What's wrong with just disagreeing exactly? Are you telling me that someone prepared to back up their opinion with their fists is therefore in the moral ascendancy, because if you are, then I call bullshit.

no I'm not saying you have to fight for every opinion but you have to be prepared to. Theres a difference...

Not all opinions are worth fighting for.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
What is this obsession with backing up your opinions with fists. Not everyone is a fighter, being prepared to fight over things doesn't give you the moral high ground.

What's wrong with just disagreeing exactly? Are you telling me that someone prepared to back up their opinion with their fists is therefore in the moral ascendancy, because if you are, then I call bullshit.

no I'm not saying you have to fight for every opinion but you have to be prepared to. Theres a difference...

Not all opinions are worth fighting for.

not worth having then are they?

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: no I'm not saying you have to fight for every opinion but you have to be prepared to. Theres a difference...

Not all opinions are worth fighting for.

not worth having then are they?

Just not worth fighting with someone because you disagree when that'll help nothing.

Exactly. Who should you descend into violence due to a difference of opinion.? Depends whether it requires violence.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly. Who should you descend into violence due to a difference of opinion.? Depends whether it requires violence.

normally if 2 people strongly disagree on something things tend to heat up quickly.
If you can walk away when things get ramped up then you quite clearly don't feel that strongly about the subject.
Or you do and your a pussy. Either way your opinion doesn't count for anything...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly. Who should you descend into violence due to a difference of opinion.? Depends whether it requires violence.

normally if 2 people strongly disagree on something things tend to heat up quickly.
If you can walk away when things get ramped up then you quite clearly don't feel that strongly about the subject.
Or you do and your a pussy. Either way your opinion doesn't count for anything...

Maybe in your world.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly. Who should you descend into violence due to a difference of opinion.? Depends whether it requires violence.

normally if 2 people strongly disagree on something things tend to heat up quickly.
If you can walk away when things get ramped up then you quite clearly don't feel that strongly about the subject.
Or you do and your a pussy. Either way your opinion doesn't count for anything...

Maybe in your world.

no my friend, in the real world with real people.
If you hear somebody talking badly about a woman, homosexual or a minority on the street would you say something?
if not, then either you agree, you don't feel that strongly about the subject or you are a pussy.
Real people speak up when they see something happening that they don't agree with regardless of if they might get hurt or not...

Agreed, real people especially act like bad asses on keyboards and talk about shit they would never do off the web. You're painting yourself to be Batman when you're probably just a mega nerd that has never seen a pussy and couldn't knock out a tomato.

Therealjudge wrote:This is all getting silly now... Some very valid points have been made.. If you feel seriously offended by something then it's not a bad thing to be willing to fight for something you feel strongly about.. Quite the opposite.. It also doesn't mean your a violent person.. Would a strongly worded letter have won the world wars?? Of course not.. People had to fight.. Not because they wanted to.. It was a last resort.. Fighting physically should always be a last resort.. Red blooded males fight.. Homosexuals where pretty colours and March.. Women tend to go with "the pen being mightier than the sword" approach.. All somewhat effect in there own way.. Each to their own... And move on!

haha fair point mate...

..not sure what all these discussions have to do with the initial question...

Therealjudge wrote:Red blooded males fight.. Homosexuals where pretty colours and March!

This is precisely the kind of ignorant negative stereotyping that I find annoying. Not every gay man is a John Inman clone.
The fact is that no-one has been acting as an apologist for either Ali or Joshua, whereas you have done nothing but attack anyone suggesting Fury has been the architect of his own lack of popularity. No-one has belittled his achievements in the ring, and I've yet to see a post where Joshua's accomplishments in the ring have been measured or compared to Fury's.
The only hating going on is coming from you and Wes Shaw.

Therealjudge wrote:Would a strongly worded letter have won the world wars?? Of course not.. People had to fight.. Not because they wanted to.. It was a last resort..

Everyone should have refused to fight and then millions of people wouldn't have died and suffered.

greg wrote:..not sure what all these discussions have to do with the initial question...

Nothing. This is people being attacked for pointing why Fury might be unpopular. Shame these forums aren't moderated anymore really. We might see boxing being discussed if they were.