BoxRec

You've got to say he's world class at cruiserweight after Saturday. In most people's top 3 at the weight and everyone's top 5.

Can't call him world class at light-heavy though. The Stevenson loss is understandable but he also lost to Cleverley. He stepped up to world level twice and lost twice.

Horse wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:I wouldn't say he was world class at light heavy for certain. Stevenson hammered him,

Stevenson is a P4Per with a P4P level of punching power.

On what basis? A knockout of Chad Dawson? Don't talk soft - Stevenson is not a P4P-er, he's got P4P power but is a very crude fighter who needs to grow some balls and stop ducking Kovalev.

Not a surprise though really, his career has been selective throughout - he has beaten only one unbeaten fighter in his whole career - and that was in his 4th fight!

MarkMcBurney wrote:On what basis? A knockout of Chad Dawson? Don't talk soft - Stevenson is not a P4P-er, he's got P4P power but is a very crude fighter who needs to grow some balls and stop ducking Kovalev.

Not a surprise though really, his career has been selective throughout - he has beaten only one unbeaten fighter in his whole career - and that was in his 4th fight!

Kovalev ducked Stevenson.

Horse wrote:

MarkMcBurney wrote:On what basis? A knockout of Chad Dawson? Don't talk soft - Stevenson is not a P4P-er, he's got P4P power but is a very crude fighter who needs to grow some balls and stop ducking Kovalev.

Not a surprise though really, his career has been selective throughout - he has beaten only one unbeaten fighter in his whole career - and that was in his 4th fight!

Kovalev ducked Stevenson.

other way round sunshine.

J wrote:other way round sunshine.

No. Kovalev pulled out of the purse bids last year.

He had his chance, but he turned it down.

Horse is right

Horse wrote:

J wrote:other way round sunshine.

No. Kovalev pulled out of the purse bids last year.

He had his chance, but he turned it down.

Kathy Duva pulled out of purse bids as she wouldn't let him fight anywhere other than HBO, not Kovalev.

Kovalev has also since said he'd love to fight Stevenson, nothing back... Maybe Stevenson could face Hopkins as a yardstick..?

Regardsless, saying Stevenson is a P4P-er is akin to saying Martin Murray is a top 10 UK P4P-er...

Horse wrote:

MarkMcBurney wrote:On what basis? A knockout of Chad Dawson? Don't talk soft - Stevenson is not a P4P-er, he's got P4P power but is a very crude fighter who needs to grow some balls and stop ducking Kovalev.

Not a surprise though really, his career has been selective throughout - he has beaten only one unbeaten fighter in his whole career - and that was in his 4th fight!

Kovalev ducked Stevenson.

Kovalev would KO Stevenson.

He's not the type to "duck" anyone. Boxing is a business.

In fact I think there are barely any fighters that would "duck" anyone, they are fighting men they don't do fear of other men. If they did they'd be in the wrong business.

MarkMcBurney wrote:Kathy Duva pulled out of purse bids as she wouldn't let him fight anywhere other than HBO, not Kovalev.

Kovalev has also since said he'd love to fight Stevenson, nothing back... Maybe Stevenson could face Hopkins as a yardstick..?

Alvarez has also said that he'd like to fight Golovkin.

I suppose that he's not at all at fault if his promoters have him avoid Golovkin like the plague?

You insult Stevenson, but make every excuse under the sun for Kovalev.

Kovalev ducked Stevenson. He's not as hard as he likes to make out.

MarkMcBurney wrote:Regardsless, saying Stevenson is a P4P-er is akin to saying Martin Murray is a top 10 UK P4P-er...

A P4P expert like me should be listened to when it comes to a fighter's P4P status.

Ian1973 wrote:Kovalev would KO Stevenson.

He's not the type to "duck" anyone. Boxing is a business.

In fact I think there are barely any fighters that would "duck" anyone, they are fighting men they don't do fear of other men. If they did they'd be in the wrong business.

Not that old load of rubbish. Ducking is a thing.

Some fighters do not want to fight the best. Some fighters want to fight chumps. Some fighters are duckers.

Horse wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:Kovalev would KO Stevenson.

He's not the type to "duck" anyone. Boxing is a business.

In fact I think there are barely any fighters that would "duck" anyone, they are fighting men they don't do fear of other men. If they did they'd be in the wrong business.

Not that old load of rubbish. Ducking is a thing.

Some fighters do not want to fight the best. Some fighters want to fight chumps. Some fighters are duckers.

I agree ducking for business reasons is still ducking.

Horse wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:Kovalev would KO Stevenson.

He's not the type to "duck" anyone. Boxing is a business.

In fact I think there are barely any fighters that would "duck" anyone, they are fighting men they don't do fear of other men. If they did they'd be in the wrong business.

Not that old load of rubbish. Ducking is a thing.

Some fighters do not want to fight the best. Some fighters want to fight chumps. Some fighters are duckers.

Kovalev will fight Ward and he fought Hopkins. Are you seriously trying to tell me he's frightened of Stevenson who couldn't get rid of Fonfara and Bika.

Come on Horse, I have a lot of time for you but this is just silly.

Ian1973 wrote:Kovalev will fight Ward and he fought Hopkins. Are you seriously trying to tell me he's frightened of Stevenson who couldn't get rid of Fonfara and Bika.

Come on Horse, I have a lot of time for you but this is just silly.

Kovalev had his chance to fight Stevenson.

Kovalev pulled out of the purse bids, not Stevenson.

Stevenson still gets labelled as a ducker and Kovalev still gets treated like a badass: When it was Kovalev who ducked!

Ian1973 wrote:

Horse wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:Kovalev would KO Stevenson.

He's not the type to "duck" anyone. Boxing is a business.

In fact I think there are barely any fighters that would "duck" anyone, they are fighting men they don't do fear of other men. If they did they'd be in the wrong business.

Not that old load of rubbish. Ducking is a thing.

Some fighters do not want to fight the best. Some fighters want to fight chumps. Some fighters are duckers.

Kovalev will fight Ward and he fought Hopkins. Are you seriously trying to tell me he's frightened of Stevenson who couldn't get rid of Fonfara and Bika.

Come on Horse, I have a lot of time for you but this is just silly.

We can only talk about Kovalev 'ducking' because Stevenson avoided the bout in the first place, which led to the creation of serious obstacles that have made it a very difficult fight to sign.

The fight was being lined up while they were both with HBO, but then Adonis jumped ship just as things looked to be in place for it to get made, and his opposition has been pretty crappy since; it's a sign of how poor his recent opponents have been that some are considering Gabriel Campillo's leftovers a step back in the right direction for him. Of course Kovalev's side pulled out of the purse bid that was ordered once PBC was already in full swing and the HBO-Haymon rivalry was heightened, but if Stevenson hadn't run from the match initially then these political impediments wouldn't have been an issue. If someone thinks Kovalev is the ducker and Stevenson is the ducked in this situation (rather than believing the opposite or at least calling them both duckers) then they probably don't know enough about it.

MarkMcBurney wrote:

Horse wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:I wouldn't say he was world class at light heavy for certain. Stevenson hammered him,

Stevenson is a P4Per with a P4P level of punching power.

On what basis? A knockout of Chad Dawson? Don't talk soft - Stevenson is not a P4P-er, he's got P4P power but is a very crude fighter who needs to grow some balls and stop ducking Kovalev.

Not a surprise though really, his career has been selective throughout - he has beaten only one unbeaten fighter in his whole career - and that was in his 4th fight!

Stevenson isn't crude. He's a very good counter puncher and elusive. That's a little bit of an unfair comment.

crusader wrote:We can only talk about Kovalev 'ducking' because Stevenson avoided the bout in the first place, which led to the creation of serious obstacles that have made it a very difficult fight to sign.

The fight was being lined up while they were both with HBO, but then Adonis jumped ship just as things looked to be in place for it to get made, and his opposition has been pretty crappy since; it's a sign of how poor his recent opponents have been that some are considering Gabriel Campillo's leftovers a step back in the right direction for him. Of course Kovalev's side pulled out of the purse bid that was ordered once PBC was already in full swing and the HBO-Haymon rivalry was heightened, but if Stevenson hadn't run from the match initially then these political impediments wouldn't have been an issue. If someone thinks Kovalev is the ducker and Stevenson is the ducked in this situation (rather than believing the opposite or at least calling them both duckers) then they probably don't know enough about it.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

crusader wrote:We can only talk about Kovalev 'ducking' because Stevenson avoided the bout in the first place, which led to the creation of serious obstacles that have made it a very difficult fight to sign.

The fight was being lined up while they were both with HBO, but then Adonis jumped ship just as things looked to be in place for it to get made, and his opposition has been pretty crappy since; it's a sign of how poor his recent opponents have been that some are considering Gabriel Campillo's leftovers a step back in the right direction for him. Of course Kovalev's side pulled out of the purse bid that was ordered once PBC was already in full swing and the HBO-Haymon rivalry was heightened, but if Stevenson hadn't run from the match initially then these political impediments wouldn't have been an issue. If someone thinks Kovalev is the ducker and Stevenson is the ducked in this situation (rather than believing the opposite or at least calling them both duckers) then they probably don't know enough about it.

x2

Horse wrote:

MarkMcBurney wrote:Kathy Duva pulled out of purse bids as she wouldn't let him fight anywhere other than HBO, not Kovalev.

Kovalev has also since said he'd love to fight Stevenson, nothing back... Maybe Stevenson could face Hopkins as a yardstick..?

Alvarez has also said that he'd like to fight Golovkin.

I suppose that he's not at all at fault if his promoters have him avoid Golovkin like the plague?

You insult Stevenson, but make every excuse under the sun for Kovalev.

Kovalev ducked Stevenson. He's not as hard as he likes to make out.

MarkMcBurney wrote:Regardsless, saying Stevenson is a P4P-er is akin to saying Martin Murray is a top 10 UK P4P-er...

A P4P expert like me should be listened to when it comes to a fighter's P4P status.

NO.

J wrote:

Horse wrote:

MarkMcBurney wrote:Kathy Duva pulled out of purse bids as she wouldn't let him fight anywhere other than HBO, not Kovalev.

Kovalev has also since said he'd love to fight Stevenson, nothing back... Maybe Stevenson could face Hopkins as a yardstick..?

Alvarez has also said that he'd like to fight Golovkin.

I suppose that he's not at all at fault if his promoters have him avoid Golovkin like the plague?

You insult Stevenson, but make every excuse under the sun for Kovalev.

Kovalev ducked Stevenson. He's not as hard as he likes to make out.

MarkMcBurney wrote:Regardsless, saying Stevenson is a P4P-er is akin to saying Martin Murray is a top 10 UK P4P-er...

A P4P expert like me should be listened to when it comes to a fighter's P4P status.

NO.

Well said.

Not sure who appointed Horse as the self styled expert on this matter.

I don't call myself a boxing expert, and never would, it's pompous.

P4P lists are very subjective, anyone claiming theirs are somehow definitive is delusional.

Horse wrote:A P4P expert like me should be listened to when it comes to a fighter's P4P status.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well said.

No.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Not sure who appointed Horse as the self styled expert on this matter.

I did, based on my obvious expertise.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't call myself a boxing expert, and never would, it's pompous.

False modesty is nauseating.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:P4P lists are very subjective, anyone claiming theirs are somehow definitive is delusional.

Not definitive, but pretty close.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Horse wrote:A P4P expert like me should be listened to when it comes to a fighter's P4P status.

haha

crusader wrote:We can only talk about Kovalev 'ducking' because Stevenson avoided the bout in the first place, which led to the creation of serious obstacles that have made it a very difficult fight to sign.

The fight was being lined up while they were both with HBO, but then Adonis jumped ship just as things looked to be in place for it to get made, and his opposition has been pretty crappy since; it's a sign of how poor his recent opponents have been that some are considering Gabriel Campillo's leftovers a step back in the right direction for him. Of course Kovalev's side pulled out of the purse bid that was ordered once PBC was already in full swing and the HBO-Haymon rivalry was heightened, but if Stevenson hadn't run from the match initially then these political impediments wouldn't have been an issue. If someone thinks Kovalev is the ducker and Stevenson is the ducked in this situation (rather than believing the opposite or at least calling them both duckers) then they probably don't know enough about it.

Isn't Adonis Stevenson some Haymon Premier League Champions of Boxing fighter now?

Either way he's a total irrelevance. Kovalev is the man at LHW, Ward is laying a claim, BHop was retired by Kovalev. That's the scene. Stevenson is just some exhibition fighting pimp that made a few quid in some shitty closed-shop ponzi-scheme franchise that nobody takes seriously.

Ricky_ wrote:Isn't Adonis Stevenson some Haymon Premier League Champions of Boxing fighter now?

Either way he's a total irrelevance. Kovalev is the man at LHW, Ward is laying a claim, BHop was retired by Kovalev. That's the scene. Stevenson is just some exhibition fighting pimp that made a few quid in some shitty closed-shop ponzi-scheme franchise that nobody takes seriously.

How is Ward laying a claim?

He fought some Cuban nobody last time and next it looks like he won't even be fighting an opponent as good as Cleverly.