BoxRec

jezzamundo wrote:After looking at a number of weigh-in photos, I've come to the conclusion that Murray's team might exaggerate his height and he's probably 5'11" rather than 6'0", which would explain why he doesn't look much taller than the 5'10 1/2" Golovkin. That said, it's a well-known fact that Murray struggled to make 160lb, so he would have been pretty drained for the weigh-in, which could help explain why he didn't look much bigger than GGG, although he still looks broader in the shoulders and the torso to me. Watching the fight, Murray is clearly the bigger man - perhaps not a huge middleweight, but certainly a big one.

Macklin clearly doesn't have good posture in his weigh in photos, which diminishes his height, although it's possible he's nearer 5'9" than his listed 5'10". Both men weighed the same at the weigh-in and on fight night. GGG clearly looks taller in this weigh in video, but on fight night they appeared pretty much the same size.

You keep referring to the photos, when the videos clarify matters. Did you watch them?

It intrigues me that instead of agreeing that Golovkin is a bigger middleweight than you originally thought, you prefer to accuse Murray (who you previously claimed was"huge" and "clearly the bigger, taller man" than GGG) of exaggerating his stats.

So you'd prefer to be wrong about Murray than alter your opinion about GGG?

If you watch the Macklin video, you'd almost certainly retract your creative "bad posture" stance.

Enlightened-One wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:After looking at a number of weigh-in photos, I've come to the conclusion that Murray's team might exaggerate his height and he's probably 5'11" rather than 6'0", which would explain why he doesn't look much taller than the 5'10 1/2" Golovkin. That said, it's a well-known fact that Murray struggled to make 160lb, so he would have been pretty drained for the weigh-in, which could help explain why he didn't look much bigger than GGG, although he still looks broader in the shoulders and the torso to me. Watching the fight, Murray is clearly the bigger man - perhaps not a huge middleweight, but certainly a big one.

Macklin clearly doesn't have good posture in his weigh in photos, which diminishes his height, although it's possible he's nearer 5'9" than his listed 5'10". Both men weighed the same at the weigh-in and on fight night. GGG clearly looks taller in this weigh in video, but on fight night they appeared pretty much the same size.

You keep referring to the photos, when the videos clarify matters. Did you watch them?

It intrigues me that instead of agreeing that Golovkin is a bigger middleweight than you originally thought, you prefer to accuse Murray (who you previously claimed was"huge" and "clearly the bigger, taller man" than GGG) of exaggerating his stats.

So you'd prefer to be wrong about Murray than alter your opinion about GGG?

If you watch the Macklin video, you'd almost certainly retract your creative "bad posture" stance.

Yes, I watched the videos and skipped to the bits you suggested. I've never been part of the 'GGG is a small middleweight' crowd - I've always thought of him as an average-size, natural middleweight who makes weight pretty easily. Yes, I did originally call Murray huge, which tbh was just repeating what I've heard from others. He's more a natural super middleweight than a middleweight, but not particularly tall.

Again weigh in photos prove nothing, these men are generally dehydrated so will appear smaller. Where do you think the 15lbs give or take comes from? There's a reason why Ronda Rouseys body looks great at the weigh in.

How can ANYONE knock GGG for anything up until this point? It's like a major league pitcher pitching complete game shutouts for over 8 years straight. You would look pretty ridiculous criticizing him after a while. He's all ready an ATG who will be remembered for a very long time. He's just adding onto his legend at this point.

caldo2025 wrote:How can ANYONE knock GGG for anything up until this point? It's like a major league pitcher pitching complete game shutouts for over 8 years straight. You would look pretty ridiculous criticizing him after a while. He's all ready an ATG who will be remembered for a very long time. He's just adding onto his legend at this point.

No. GGG is still building his brand. His career status as a ATG is not yet set in stone.

caldo2025 wrote:How can ANYONE knock GGG for anything up until this point? It's like a major league pitcher pitching complete game shutouts for over 8 years straight. You would look pretty ridiculous criticizing him after a while. He's all ready an ATG who will be remembered for a very long time. He's just adding onto his legend at this point.

i agree no one can knock him but he is not an ATG yet, although i have no doubts he will be

Oiky wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:How can ANYONE knock GGG for anything up until this point? It's like a major league pitcher pitching complete game shutouts for over 8 years straight. You would look pretty ridiculous criticizing him after a while. He's all ready an ATG who will be remembered for a very long time. He's just adding onto his legend at this point.

i agree no one can knock him but he is not an ATG yet, although i have no doubts he will be

Who knows...he may end up like Rocky Marciano, who many consider and ATG but lacked the competition to launch him into the best ever discussion. Will a win over welterweight Kell Brook be his best win to date? If so, I would say he needs to get out of his comfort zone and really test himself against the likes of Ward and Kovalev. Floyd and Manny for example, (among others) both moved up and fought the top guys while at their walking around weight. If GGG did that, he would be fighting and beating the best at light heavy. Now THAT would make him great. If he beats Canelo it will definitely help, but here again it is a guy at a lower weight than him. (even though Canelo re-hydrates possibly higher)

caldo2025 wrote:How can ANYONE knock GGG for anything up until this point?

The main criticisms of Golovkin were the decisions he made outside the ring, such as initially signing with Universum and then moving to a small promoter like K2.

Whilst I’m sure that Tom Loeffler has tried very hard to progress GGG’s career, for quite some time, the Kazakh was earning smaller paydays compared to his fellow world champions, which kind of adds leverage to the claims of other boxers refusing to face him, due to the fact they claimed they weren’t being paid enough.

From the perspective of a casual observer, it seemed that K2 supplied low-ball offers and then they and/or the GGG fans proclaimed “duck” when they were subsequently rejected… but now the shoe is on the other foot, being the A-side fighter, Team Golovkin has since declined interest in facing the likes of Ward and DeGale, because those fights weren’t big enough for them (yet).

I get the feeling that if Gennady was with any Haymon-affiliated promoter, Top Rank or Golden Boy, his career would have progressed at a much quicker rate, his bank balance would possess much bigger numbers and he would have already engaged in several career-defining fights. Unfortunately, we’re still waiting for that first signature victory.

The only other thing that GGG could potentially be criticised about, was his teams’ regular proclamations of being capable and willing to face any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs. It wasn’t a one-off claim either, yet he’s been very reluctant to prove it. This leaves himself open to criticism when he says he's willing to face certain fighters at one weight class, but not others.

For sure, Golovkin is a wonderful fighter with marvellous talent, probably worthy of all the praise he’s received, but considering he’s a 34 year old veteran that has been on the world stage since 2008 (one of the top five 160lb-ers on the planet), I just can’t help thinking that his career could have been better managed.

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:How can ANYONE knock GGG for anything up until this point?

The main criticisms of Golovkin were the decisions he made outside the ring, such as initially signing with Universum and then moving to a small promoter like K2.

Whilst I’m sure that Tom Loeffler has tried very hard to progress GGG’s career, for quite some time, the Kazakh was earning smaller paydays compared to his fellow world champions, which kind of adds leverage to the claims of other boxers refusing to face him, due to the fact they claimed they weren’t being paid enough.

From the perspective of a casual observer, it seemed that K2 supplied low-ball offers and then they and/or the GGG fans proclaimed “duck” when they were subsequently rejected… but now the shoe is on the other foot, being the A-side fighter, Team Golovkin has since declined interest in facing the likes of Ward and DeGale, because those fights weren’t big enough for them (yet).

I get the feeling that if Gennady was with any Haymon-affiliated promoter, Top Rank or Golden Boy, his career would have progressed at a much quicker rate, his bank balance would possess much bigger numbers and he would have already engaged in several career-defining fights. Unfortunately, we’re still waiting for that first signature victory.

The only other thing that GGG could potentially be criticised about, was his teams’ regular proclamations of being capable and willing to face any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs. It wasn’t a one-off claim either, yet he’s been very reluctant to prove it. This leaves himself open to criticism when he says he's willing to face certain fighters at one weight class, but not others.

For sure, Golovkin is a wonderful fighter with marvellous talent, probably worthy of all the praise he’s received, but considering he’s a 34 year old veteran that has been on the world stage since 2008 (one of the top five 160lb-ers on the planet), I just can’t help thinking that his career could have been better managed.

Yes, totally agree with this, at 34 he's just coming into prominence, just as his career is winding down. He might be able to go on for another 5 years if he's looked after himself as he has very good technique, we shall see, but he should already be loaded with talent like that.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:How can ANYONE knock GGG for anything up until this point?

The main criticisms of Golovkin were the decisions he made outside the ring, such as initially signing with Universum and then moving to a small promoter like K2.

Whilst I’m sure that Tom Loeffler has tried very hard to progress GGG’s career, for quite some time, the Kazakh was earning smaller paydays compared to his fellow world champions, which kind of adds leverage to the claims of other boxers refusing to face him, due to the fact they claimed they weren’t being paid enough.

From the perspective of a casual observer, it seemed that K2 supplied low-ball offers and then they and/or the GGG fans proclaimed “duck” when they were subsequently rejected… but now the shoe is on the other foot, being the A-side fighter, Team Golovkin has since declined interest in facing the likes of Ward and DeGale, because those fights weren’t big enough for them (yet).

I get the feeling that if Gennady was with any Haymon-affiliated promoter, Top Rank or Golden Boy, his career would have progressed at a much quicker rate, his bank balance would possess much bigger numbers and he would have already engaged in several career-defining fights. Unfortunately, we’re still waiting for that first signature victory.

The only other thing that GGG could potentially be criticised about, was his teams’ regular proclamations of being capable and willing to face any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs. It wasn’t a one-off claim either, yet he’s been very reluctant to prove it. This leaves himself open to criticism when he says he's willing to face certain fighters at one weight class, but not others.

For sure, Golovkin is a wonderful fighter with marvellous talent, probably worthy of all the praise he’s received, but considering he’s a 34 year old veteran that has been on the world stage since 2008 (one of the top five 160lb-ers on the planet), I just can’t help thinking that his career could have been better managed.

Yes, totally agree with this, at 34 he's just coming into prominence, just as his career is winding down. He might be able to go on for another 5 years if he's looked after himself as he has very good technique, we shall see, but he should already be loaded with talent like that.

x3

You are all crazy. Some of you say that he won't be considered great unless he jumps two divisions and takes on bigger fighters. Why can't you just realize that this kid is a Middleweight and he should be measured on his reign over that division? Then some genius pulls out the Marvin Hagler comparison. Well, Marvin not only strictly fought at MW his whole career but he got beaten by a glorified Junior MW/WW in the biggest fight of his career. Oh and then he quit right after that. I can't wait to hear you all when he whitewashes Brooks ass all over the place. The If's and But's will all come up again and you will find a way to minimize the accomplishment.

Then I hear people knocking his promotional company for not making him a star sooner. Do you realize how dumb that is? The kid is a pioneer from a dirt poor country. The fact that he made it at all, was an upset. Until GGG, there was nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe. He learned English. Fought 3 times a year anywhere he could get a fight int the states to build his brand which at first was more of a cult following. His only choice was to slowly build it up against the odds.

GGG deserves all the credit in the world for coming from nothing to the top of the sport. He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport. You have never seen anything like him so stop acting like you are not impressed. It's pathetic. If you aren't impressed by GGG then you shouldn't follow the sport. You aren't qualified.

caldo2025 wrote:Some of you say that he won't be considered great unless he jumps two divisions and takes on bigger fighters.

None of the posts submitted by in this thread have claimed this.

caldo2025 wrote:Why can't you just realize that this kid is a Middleweight and he should be measured on his reign over that division?

Golovkin can earn "greatness" if he chooses to remain as a middleweight.

However, Team GGG have regularly and persistently claimed that Golovkin is easily capable and willing to face any fighters competing from 154lbs to 175lbs... and that's where the bigger names and greater challenges lie, but despite this own claims, he's only ever competed at 160lbs.

caldo2025 wrote:Then some genius pulls out the Marvin Hagler comparison. Well, Marvin not only strictly fought at MW his whole career but he got beaten by a glorified Junior MW/WW in the biggest fight of his career. Oh and then he quit right after that.

I don't believe that anyone really dwelled on the Hagler comparison. In my mind, Golovkin is the best middleweight since Hopkins.

In terms of your ciriticism of Hagler facing smaller fighters and only ever competing as a middleweight...

13 of Golovkin's world title opponents had previously fought either as a welterweight or a light middleweight. To be pedantic and technically-speaking, at least six of his world title opponents were relative novices at competing as 160lb-ers. Also, GGG has never competed as a pro as anything other than a middleweight.

caldo2025 wrote:Then I hear people knocking his promotional company for not making him a star sooner. Do you realize how dumb that is?

Are you aware of Golovkin’s relationship with Universum? If you’re not, then you aren’t qualified to call anyone "dumb."

In terms of K2, apart from the owners, how many marquee names do they have amongst their stable of fighters?

In the context of paydays and HBO viewership figures, up until and including the Willie Monroe Jr. bout, Golovkin has earned either a smaller or similar purses than less popular and less talented fighters. Certainly not befitting of a top three pound-for-pounder, which may explain the reason why some of his rivals have refused to face him because they claimed they weren’t being paid their worth.

Do you feel that Haymon, Arum and De La Hoya were incapable of progressing Golovkin’s career faster and further than Tom Loeffler?

What fighter(s) has Tom Loeffler promoted that has had a commercially better career than Golovkin (other than his bosses)?

caldo2025 wrote:The kid is a pioneer from a dirt poor country.

In what way is he a "pioneer"?

Is Kazakhstan really a "dirt poor country"? It’s central Asia’s largest economy, has less unemployment that the UK and the US… and its GDP is growing at a faster rate than those countries too.

If you’re convinced that Kazakhstan is a “dirt poor country”, then please elaborate?

caldo2025 wrote:Until GGG, there was nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe.

Are you referring to Eastern Europe… and is your “nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe” comment a racial slur or are you talking about boxing skills?

I really do hope it’s the latter… and if so, what about Kostya Tzyu? Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko? Andrew Golota? Nikolay Valuev? Louis Kaplan? Benny Bass? Vic Darchinyan? Orzubek Nazarov? Artur Grigorian? Beibut Shumenov? Sultan Ibragimov? Vasily Jorov? They all came before him.

caldo2025 wrote:He learned English.

Golovkin can speak English, but it is limited and hasn’t appeared to have improved since he started headlining HBO cards from 2012. There are an awful lot of multi/bilingual fighters. So this accomplishment is not "unique" or significant.

caldo2025 wrote:He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport.

Are you really young? Were you born after 2003 or have you only very recently started following the sport?

Has he ever scored a signature win?

I don’t think any fighter deserves an honorary rite of passage to “greatness” without having earned it by beating the very best fighters of his era/weight division and he hasn’t done that yet. Perhaps by the time he retires he will, but the fact remains is that the men he has defeated so far haven’t been that impressive.

caldo2025 wrote:GGG deserves all the credit in the world... He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport. You have never seen anything like him so stop acting like you are not impressed. It's pathetic. If you aren't impressed by GGG then you shouldn't follow the sport. You aren't qualified.

Is this you?

I wish he would have fought Ward at 168 instead of demanding 164. It would have been a great fight for both guys. If GGG was confident he would beat Ward at 168 he would have. As it turns out he wasn't. Its funny GGG is doing exactly what he was accusing Canelo of doing.

caldo2025 wrote:You are all crazy. Some of you say that he won't be considered great unless he jumps two divisions and takes on bigger fighters. Why can't you just realize that this kid is a Middleweight and he should be measured on his reign over that division? Then some genius pulls out the Marvin Hagler comparison. Well, Marvin not only strictly fought at MW his whole career but he got beaten by a glorified Junior MW/WW in the biggest fight of his career. Oh and then he quit right after that. I can't wait to hear you all when he whitewashes Brooks ass all over the place. The If's and But's will all come up again and you will find a way to minimize the accomplishment.

Then I hear people knocking his promotional company for not making him a star sooner. Do you realize how dumb that is? The kid is a pioneer from a dirt poor country. The fact that he made it at all, was an upset. Until GGG, there was nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe. He learned English. Fought 3 times a year anywhere he could get a fight int the states to build his brand which at first was more of a cult following. His only choice was to slowly build it up against the odds.

GGG deserves all the credit in the world for coming from nothing to the top of the sport. He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport. You have never seen anything like him so stop acting like you are not impressed. It's pathetic. If you aren't impressed by GGG then you shouldn't follow the sport. You aren't qualified.

You need to get over yourself mate, just because you think GGG is the best fighter that ever lived, doesn't make it so. I've seen some fandom in my time, but you've got a serious boner for GGG. I fear for the integrity of his sphincter if you ever met him in the flesh, you'd be up there quicker than a rat up a drainpipe.

I actually love watching him fight, he's possible the best fighter around at the moment, but really he's done nothing yet to deserve your frankly worrying adoration and obsession with him.

Either you're a troll, or you're out of meds.

Why would anyone get excited over him beating Brook? He's fighting a welterweight for FFS, and Brook is hardly a hall of famer.

Marvin Hagler lost to Sugar Ray Leonard, one of the greatest fighters of his era, a top 10 all time welterweight, and it was at the end of a long hard career. If you want to define Marvin's career by that, then you truly are a dick head.

Badhusker wrote:I wish he would have fought Ward at 168 instead of demanding 164. It would have been a great fight for both guys. If GGG was confident he would beat Ward at 168 he would have. As it turns out he wasn't. Its funny GGG is doing exactly what he was accusing Canelo of doing.

Nobody demanded 164. It is a lie. Ward wanted 50/50 and Loefler commented on that in ONE interview that if he wants 50/50, then it also applies to weight. There were NO real negotiations, as Ward has never wanted to fight GGG.

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Some of you say that he won't be considered great unless he jumps two divisions and takes on bigger fighters.

None of the posts submitted by in this thread have claimed this.

caldo2025 wrote:Why can't you just realize that this kid is a Middleweight and he should be measured on his reign over that division?

Golovkin can earn "greatness" if he chooses to remain as a middleweight.

However, Team GGG have regularly and persistently claimed that Golovkin is easily capable and willing to face any fighters competing from 154lbs to 175lbs... and that's where the bigger names and greater challenges lie, but despite this own claims, he's only ever competed at 160lbs.

caldo2025 wrote:Then some genius pulls out the Marvin Hagler comparison. Well, Marvin not only strictly fought at MW his whole career but he got beaten by a glorified Junior MW/WW in the biggest fight of his career. Oh and then he quit right after that.

I don't believe that anyone really dwelled on the Hagler comparison. In my mind, Golovkin is the best middleweight since Hopkins.

In terms of your ciriticism of Hagler facing smaller fighters and only ever competing as a middleweight...

13 of Golovkin's world title opponents had previously fought either as a welterweight or a light middleweight. To be pedantic and technically-speaking, at least six of his world title opponents were relative novices at competing as 160lb-ers. Also, GGG has never competed as a pro as anything other than a middleweight.

caldo2025 wrote:Then I hear people knocking his promotional company for not making him a star sooner. Do you realize how dumb that is?

Are you aware of Golovkin’s relationship with Universum? If you’re not, then you aren’t qualified to call anyone "dumb."

In terms of K2, apart from the owners, how many marquee names do they have amongst their stable of fighters?

In the context of paydays and HBO viewership figures, up until and including the Willie Monroe Jr. bout, Golovkin has earned either a smaller or similar purses than less popular and less talented fighters. Certainly not befitting of a top three pound-for-pounder, which may explain the reason why some of his rivals have refused to face him because they claimed they weren’t being paid their worth.

Do you feel that Haymon, Arum and De La Hoya were incapable of progressing Golovkin’s career faster and further than Tom Loeffler?

What fighter(s) has Tom Loeffler promoted that has had a commercially better career than Golovkin (other than his bosses)?

caldo2025 wrote:The kid is a pioneer from a dirt poor country.

In what way is he a "pioneer"?

Is Kazakhstan really a "dirt poor country"? It’s central Asia’s largest economy, has less unemployment that the UK and the US… and its GDP is growing at a faster rate than those countries too.

If you’re convinced that Kazakhstan is a “dirt poor country”, then please elaborate?

caldo2025 wrote:Until GGG, there was nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe.

Are you referring to Eastern Europe… and is your “nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe” comment a racial slur or are you talking about boxing skills?

I really do hope it’s the latter… and if so, what about Kostya Tzyu? Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko? Andrew Golota? Nikolay Valuev? Louis Kaplan? Benny Bass? Vic Darchinyan? Orzubek Nazarov? Artur Grigorian? Beibut Shumenov? Sultan Ibragimov? Vasily Jorov? They all came before him.

caldo2025 wrote:He learned English.

Golovkin can speak English, but it is limited and hasn’t appeared to have improved since he started headlining HBO cards from 2012. There are an awful lot of multi/bilingual fighters. So this accomplishment is not "unique" or significant.

caldo2025 wrote:He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport.

Are you really young? Were you born after 2003?

Has he ever scored a signature win?

I don’t think any fighter deserves an honorary rite of passage to “greatness” without having earned it by beating the very best fighters of his era/weight division and he hasn’t done that yet. Perhaps by the time he retires he will, but the fact remains is that the men he has defeated so far haven’t been that impressive.

caldo2025 wrote:GGG deserves all the credit in the world... He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport. You have never seen anything like him so stop acting like you are not impressed. It's pathetic. If you aren't impressed by GGG then you shouldn't follow the sport. You aren't qualified.

Is this you?

What a bunch of drivel. Absolute nonsense. Just because you can cut and paste like a champion, it doesn't mean you can win an argument without logic or content. I've been watching Boxing for almost 40 years now so you analyze members of this site like you analyze boxing talent, not well. So it doesn't surprise me that you aren't able to use the eyeball test with boxers to see what you have. You have to look at the Boxrec fighting history stats to see if a boxer was any good and cross people off without even seeing them fight based on their opposition.

We are talking about the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport with GGG. If you don't agree with that then this discussion is over because i'm not discussing this with someone so ignorant. THE most avoided fighter in history. He's been begging for fights and does it 3 times a year. He's got a knockout streak the Middleweight Division has never seen before. In his last 9 fights, his opposition compiled a record of 265 wins and 22 losses. Oh and by the way, those last 9 fights that I reference happened in the last THREE years. So please go ahead and name another fighter that has had a more difficult schedule than GGG in the last 3 years. Let's hear it.

Then we have guys like Canelo. These fantastic fighters in their primes, running scared and coughing up titles so that they don't have to get in the ring with GGG. It's an epidemic in boxing that has never been seen before on this level. Maybe since the early years of Mike Tyson.

When you are the most avoided boxer in the history of the sport, at some point, you have to just measure the boxer on how he performs in the ring collectively. And no one has performed as well as GGG has. NO ONE.

caldo2025 wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Some of you say that he won't be considered great unless he jumps two divisions and takes on bigger fighters.

None of the posts submitted by in this thread have claimed this.

caldo2025 wrote:Why can't you just realize that this kid is a Middleweight and he should be measured on his reign over that division?

Golovkin can earn "greatness" if he chooses to remain as a middleweight.

However, Team GGG have regularly and persistently claimed that Golovkin is easily capable and willing to face any fighters competing from 154lbs to 175lbs... and that's where the bigger names and greater challenges lie, but despite this own claims, he's only ever competed at 160lbs.

caldo2025 wrote:Then some genius pulls out the Marvin Hagler comparison. Well, Marvin not only strictly fought at MW his whole career but he got beaten by a glorified Junior MW/WW in the biggest fight of his career. Oh and then he quit right after that.

I don't believe that anyone really dwelled on the Hagler comparison. In my mind, Golovkin is the best middleweight since Hopkins.

In terms of your ciriticism of Hagler facing smaller fighters and only ever competing as a middleweight...

13 of Golovkin's world title opponents had previously fought either as a welterweight or a light middleweight. To be pedantic and technically-speaking, at least six of his world title opponents were relative novices at competing as 160lb-ers. Also, GGG has never competed as a pro as anything other than a middleweight.

caldo2025 wrote:Then I hear people knocking his promotional company for not making him a star sooner. Do you realize how dumb that is?

Are you aware of Golovkin’s relationship with Universum? If you’re not, then you aren’t qualified to call anyone "dumb."

In terms of K2, apart from the owners, how many marquee names do they have amongst their stable of fighters?

In the context of paydays and HBO viewership figures, up until and including the Willie Monroe Jr. bout, Golovkin has earned either a smaller or similar purses than less popular and less talented fighters. Certainly not befitting of a top three pound-for-pounder, which may explain the reason why some of his rivals have refused to face him because they claimed they weren’t being paid their worth.

Do you feel that Haymon, Arum and De La Hoya were incapable of progressing Golovkin’s career faster and further than Tom Loeffler?

What fighter(s) has Tom Loeffler promoted that has had a commercially better career than Golovkin (other than his bosses)?

caldo2025 wrote:The kid is a pioneer from a dirt poor country.

In what way is he a "pioneer"?

Is Kazakhstan really a "dirt poor country"? It’s central Asia’s largest economy, has less unemployment that the UK and the US… and its GDP is growing at a faster rate than those countries too.

If you’re convinced that Kazakhstan is a “dirt poor country”, then please elaborate?

caldo2025 wrote:Until GGG, there was nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe.

Are you referring to Eastern Europe… and is your “nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe” comment a racial slur or are you talking about boxing skills?

I really do hope it’s the latter… and if so, what about Kostya Tzyu? Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko? Andrew Golota? Nikolay Valuev? Louis Kaplan? Benny Bass? Vic Darchinyan? Orzubek Nazarov? Artur Grigorian? Beibut Shumenov? Sultan Ibragimov? Vasily Jorov? They all came before him.

caldo2025 wrote:He learned English.

Golovkin can speak English, but it is limited and hasn’t appeared to have improved since he started headlining HBO cards from 2012. There are an awful lot of multi/bilingual fighters. So this accomplishment is not "unique" or significant.

caldo2025 wrote:He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport.

Are you really young? Were you born after 2003?

Has he ever scored a signature win?

I don’t think any fighter deserves an honorary rite of passage to “greatness” without having earned it by beating the very best fighters of his era/weight division and he hasn’t done that yet. Perhaps by the time he retires he will, but the fact remains is that the men he has defeated so far haven’t been that impressive.

caldo2025 wrote:GGG deserves all the credit in the world... He's the best boxer i've ever seen in my life and he will be remembered with the best names in the sport. You have never seen anything like him so stop acting like you are not impressed. It's pathetic. If you aren't impressed by GGG then you shouldn't follow the sport. You aren't qualified.

Is this you?

What a bunch of drivel. Absolute nonsense. Just because you can cut and paste like a champion, it doesn't mean you can win an argument without logic or content. I've been watching Boxing for almost 40 years now so you analyze members of this site like you analyze boxing talent, not well. So it doesn't surprise me that you aren't able to use the eyeball test with boxers to see what you have. You have to look at the Boxrec fighting history stats to see if a boxer was any good and cross people off without even seeing them fight based on their opposition.

We are talking about the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport with GGG. If you don't agree with that then this discussion is over because i'm not discussing this with someone so ignorant. THE most avoided fighter in history. He's been begging for fights and does it 3 times a year. He's got a knockout streak the Middleweight Division has never seen before. In his last 9 fights, his opposition compiled a record of 265 wins and 22 losses. Oh and by the way, those last 9 fights that I reference happened in the last THREE years. So please go ahead and name another fighter that has had a more difficult schedule than GGG in the last 3 years. Let's hear it.

Then we have guys like Canelo. These fantastic fighters in their primes, running scared and coughing up titles so that they don't have to get in the ring with GGG. It's an epidemic in boxing that has never been seen before on this level. Maybe since the early years of Mike Tyson.

When you are the most avoided boxer in the history of the sport, at some point, you have to just measure the boxer on how he performs in the ring collectively. And no one has performed as well as GGG has. NO ONE.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but just because you've been watching something almost 40 years, it doesn't mean you're not full of shite.

Everyone here respects GGG, but you're bordering on the obsessive.

He is NOT the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport, you are talking complete and utter bollox, and if you claim to have been following boxing that long, then you should know better, there's countless fighters who were avoided in their primes and struggled to even get a title shot.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I wish he would have fought Ward at 168 instead of demanding 164. It would have been a great fight for both guys. If GGG was confident he would beat Ward at 168 he would have. As it turns out he wasn't. Its funny GGG is doing exactly what he was accusing Canelo of doing.

Nobody demanded 164. It is a lie. Ward wanted 50/50 and Loefler commented on that in ONE interview that if he wants 50/50, then it also applies to weight. There were NO real negotiations, as Ward has never wanted to fight GGG.

Whatever. 164 definitely was the road block, and is public knowledge. Sorry if I said anything negative about lil G.

Badhusker wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I wish he would have fought Ward at 168 instead of demanding 164. It would have been a great fight for both guys. If GGG was confident he would beat Ward at 168 he would have. As it turns out he wasn't. Its funny GGG is doing exactly what he was accusing Canelo of doing.

Nobody demanded 164. It is a lie. Ward wanted 50/50 and Loefler commented on that in ONE interview that if he wants 50/50, then it also applies to weight. There were NO real negotiations, as Ward has never wanted to fight GGG.

Whatever. 164 definitely was the road block, and is public knowledge. Sorry if I said anything negative about lil G.

No, it wasn't. Ward has never been serious. He couldn't make 168 either.

caldo2025 wrote:What a bunch of drivel. Absolute nonsense. Just because you can cut and paste like a champion, it doesn't mean you can win an argument without logic or content.

The information that I supplied in my response to your post were merely facts that are irrefutable in nature an easily verifiable.

Facts don’t care about opinions, because they are what they are. If you’ve interpreted my words as besmirching Golovkin’s reputation, then that is something that is out of my control.

Your behaviour is much akin to screaming and shouting at the weather man on TV, simply because he told you it was going to rain.

If my claims are indeed a “bunch of drivel” and “absolute nonsense”, then why don’t you make an attempt to challenge each point head-on instead of clearly refusing to address anything I’ve said?

caldo2025 wrote:I've been watching Boxing for almost 40 years now so you analyze members of this site like you analyze boxing talent, not well. So it doesn't surprise me that you aren't able to use the eyeball test with boxers to see what you have. You have to look at the Boxrec fighting history stats to see if a boxer was any good and cross people off without even seeing them fight based on their opposition.

Your assumption about me is based on no information whatsoever.

In simple terms, you’re saying that it’s OK for you to hold a derogatory and unfounded opinion about a person who you’ve never met and know nothing about, but you deem it hideously offensive for me to quote facts that are fairly innocuous in nature and easily verifiable?

A man of your age should know better.

caldo2025 wrote:We are talking about the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport with GGG.

Golovkin is not the most avoided or feared fighter in the history of the sport.

Perhaps you’ve wasted 40 years?

caldo2025 wrote:If you don't agree with that then this discussion is over because i'm not discussing this with someone so ignorant.

Could you be accused of being ignorant due to your derogatory opinion of a person who you’ve never met and know nothing about? Don't racists do that also?

caldo2025 wrote:He's been begging for fights and does it 3 times a year.

Golovkin doesn’t beg, he fights second tier fighters instead, if he can’t face marquee names.

caldo2025 wrote:please go ahead and name another fighter that has had a more difficult schedule than GGG in the last 3 years. Let's hear it.

Roman Gonzalez, Sergey Kovalev, Canelo Alvarez, Vasyl Lomachenko, Carl Frampton etc.

caldo2025 wrote:Then we have guys like Canelo. These fantastic fighters in their primes, running scared and coughing up titles so that they don't have to get in the ring with GGG. It's an epidemic in boxing that has never been seen before on this level. Maybe since the early years of Mike Tyson.

Canelo is the A-side fighter.

Canelo refuses to fight 5lbs above his normal weight to fight Golovkin. GGG refuses to fight 5lbs or more above his normal weight to fight Ward.

In your eyes, one man is a criminal, but the other one is a hero, when both men have committed the same crime?

Golovkin is willing to face DeGale, Froch, Chavez Jr. and Hopkins at 168lbs, but Team GGG (Loeffler, Sanchez and Genaddy himself) have stated that they wouldn't be willing to face Ward above 164lbs?

Golovkin says he is willing to face an almost 40 year old retired fighter (Mayweather Jr.) at 154lbs, but not Cotto or Canelo at 155lbs?

caldo2025 wrote:When you are the most avoided boxer in the history of the sport.

This is not true.

caldo2025 wrote:At some point, you have to just measure the boxer on how he performs in the ring collectively.

Gennady’s team needs to realise that "talent" is useless unless it’s proven…. And "potential" is useless unless it’s fulfilled! It's impossible to do either when he's not fighting against the very best.

It seems as though the media and fight fans has built-up Golovkin’s reputation to preposterous levels and granted him an honorary rite of passage to “greatness”, whilst granting him an exemption from consistently having to face the very best available opponents.

Whilst GGG is a marvellous fighter, no one deserves their status to be automatically elevated as a “Hall-of-Famer” without having defeated any big names. There’s plenty of time for Golovkin to earn this right, but you guys have clearly jumped the gun!

caldo2025 wrote:And no one has performed as well as GGG has. NO ONE.

Sugar Ray Robinson?

Badhusker wrote:I wish he would have fought Ward at 168 instead of demanding 164. It would have been a great fight for both guys. If GGG was confident he would beat Ward at 168 he would have. As it turns out he wasn't. Its funny GGG is doing exactly what he was accusing Canelo of doing.

There was never a time for that fight to seriously happen. Ward had to be strong armed into fighting Edwin Rodriguez by HBO, he certainly wasn't going to fight GGG after a layoff. Basically just using Golovkin's name to keep his out there.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I wish he would have fought Ward at 168 instead of demanding 164. It would have been a great fight for both guys. If GGG was confident he would beat Ward at 168 he would have. As it turns out he wasn't. Its funny GGG is doing exactly what he was accusing Canelo of doing.

There was never a time for that fight to seriously happen. Ward had to be strong armed into fighting Edwin Rodriguez by HBO, he certainly wasn't going to fight GGG after a layoff. Basically just using Golovkin's name to keep his out there.

You are right Saad. I listened to an interview by Abel Sanchez and he said it was Dan Rafael that came up with the 164 and 50-50 split all on his own. He said they never negotiated anything in a contract sense for GGG vs Ward. All media BS.

There are videos of Sanchez and Loeffler saying that they would only be interested in Golovkin facing Ward at 164lbs. Do you need to see them?

I really don't know why people are disputing the 164lb stipulation (regardless of whether contract negotiations did or didn't take place), when you can see these men say those words.

More bullsh*t from fergus ...

Badhusker wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I wish he would have fought Ward at 168 instead of demanding 164. It would have been a great fight for both guys. If GGG was confident he would beat Ward at 168 he would have. As it turns out he wasn't. Its funny GGG is doing exactly what he was accusing Canelo of doing.

There was never a time for that fight to seriously happen. Ward had to be strong armed into fighting Edwin Rodriguez by HBO, he certainly wasn't going to fight GGG after a layoff. Basically just using Golovkin's name to keep his out there.

You are right Saad. I listened to an interview by Abel Sanchez and he said it was Dan Rafael that came up with the 164 and 50-50 split all on his own. He said they never negotiated anything in a contract sense for GGG vs Ward. All media BS.

I know I'm right. Thank you for acknowledging it.