BoxRec

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:What, in gods name, are you on about?
You mean multiple challengers like, who exactly?

Did he fight the 1990s version of Mike Tyson? The one that slaughtered Frank Bruno?
Did he defend his IBF title against the mandatory challenger, Chris Byrd? No he vacated.
Did he defend his WBA title against the mandatory challenger, John Ruiz? No he vacated.
Did he give Ike Ibeauchi a title shot? No.
Did he give Vitali the rematch that the WBC ordered? No.


As much as people might want to think so, Lennox Lewis was not "The Lion" that people made him out to be.

He fought Tyson, albeit to late, I'll give you that. But he fought him

Byrd and Ruiz were reasonably solid world level, but hardly people Lewis needed to avoid, He'd have spanked either one.
He was fighting top level opposition in the years they were near the top of any rankings.
Both good fights, that would have been nice to see, but hardly worthy of branding Lewis some type of ducker.

Ibeabuchi went to jail after 20 fight

He fought Vitali, he was already on the decline by the time he fought him first time and still won and he made the right decision to walk away when he did.


If Lewis hadn't faced plenty top contenders and been in plenty of high profile bouts, you'd have a case but it's hard to brand someone a ducker for not fighting every single opponent available over 10 years at the top. Especially when you are doing so in comparison with someone who has fought absolutely no-one, yet is being sold as the savior of the sport

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Who has Joshua ACTUALLY fought to compare with Lewis?!

Again, he's been Champ for less than a year, give the kid a break...

Tell it to the guy that opened a thread comparing a rookie to an ATG

Tell it to the man who posted "Though in AJ's defense he does want the biggest fights out there and is willing to raise to every challenge. I'm not sure that the same could have been said for Lennox."

Stuarty30 wrote:

davie wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:
He's bloody better for god sake. I'm not an AJ fanboy or anything but he's better than Bruno was.

I wouldn't say there is a huge amount in it, Frank was a very good fighter.
I'd say if the 2 were to fight, it would be a mid-rounds stoppage, with me maybe leaning 70-30 in Joshuas favour but I certainly wouldn't write Frank off

I don't think AJ would have had a great deal more success, had he faced the fighters on Bruno's record

Technique wise and build they are very similar but AJ has massive confidence in his own ability which Bruno lacked. That's half the battle at elite level.

Very true.

I'll go 75/25 then

Stuarty30 wrote:

davie wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:
He's bloody better for god sake. I'm not an AJ fanboy or anything but he's better than Bruno was.

I wouldn't say there is a huge amount in it, Frank was a very good fighter.
I'd say if the 2 were to fight, it would be a mid-rounds stoppage, with me maybe leaning 70-30 in Joshuas favour but I certainly wouldn't write Frank off

I don't think AJ would have had a great deal more success, had he faced the fighters on Bruno's record

Technique wise and build they are very similar but AJ has massive confidence in his own ability which Bruno lacked. That's half the battle at elite level.

True stuey but I think the biggest difference is that Joshua is much more athletic than Bruno. Similarly, but not quite as, stiff, but a much better mover.

Crease wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Wasn't Tyson locked up long before Lewis was even considered a challenger?

He was released and back in the ring as early as 1995.

lillywhite14 wrote:Byrd and Ruiz? Come on. Huge mismatches and didn't he pursue bigger fights instead of facing them two?

Yep, he fought an old and fat version of Mike Tyson. Mike wasn't the same man after Holyfield beat him...
And Lewis didn't choose to meet him until FIVE years later.

lillywhite14 wrote:Vitali? 38 years old and past his best. How long does a fighter need to go on for?

As long as he wants I suppose, but doesn't a "true champion" face all challengers?

lillywhite14 wrote:Lewis was unlucky in regards to certain fights. Tyson and Holy kept away from him as long as they could

I think it was more likely that Lewis kept away from a prime Tyson for as long as he could.

I always thought a prime Tyson was pre-prison, and possibly last seen in the Douglas fight? That was February 1990, Lennox was 7-0 then and a novice pro. He was 3 years away from a world title shot at that point so at no point was Lewis in a position to fight a "prime" Tyson unfortunately. Once released, Tyson sought easy fight after easy fight, paying Lewis big step aside money to pursue Holyfield instead, as it was considered an easier fight than Lennox at the time, especially given Holyfields recent results. Obviously it backfired somewhat! Although Tyson made more for that fight than he would have for Lewis I guess so not the worst decision ever.

Lewis had already faced Vitali. So it's not as if he was ducking him was it? He turned up fat, old and looking past his best. He then beat Vitali and possibly realised it was time to call it a day. I'd like to see more 38 year old boxers retire than carry on for 'one last fight' No boxer in history has been in his prime at 38 mate, I'm sure you agree with that?

The biggest disappointment with Lewis' career for me was the Bowe fight(s)
We were robbed of a potential ATG trilogy there imo. Had everything turned out "perfect" then we'd have seen a series of fights between Lewis, Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield, which would have cemented the era as number 1 alongside the 70's heavyweight era imo. For whatever reason, and most, if not all of them, had nothing to do with Lewis ( who seemed keen to fight all of them ) they never happened, at least not when all in their pomp. Its a real shame.

lillywhite14 wrote:

Crease wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Wasn't Tyson locked up long before Lewis was even considered a challenger?

He was released and back in the ring as early as 1995.

lillywhite14 wrote:Byrd and Ruiz? Come on. Huge mismatches and didn't he pursue bigger fights instead of facing them two?

Yep, he fought an old and fat version of Mike Tyson. Mike wasn't the same man after Holyfield beat him...
And Lewis didn't choose to meet him until FIVE years later.

lillywhite14 wrote:Vitali? 38 years old and past his best. How long does a fighter need to go on for?

As long as he wants I suppose, but doesn't a "true champion" face all challengers?

lillywhite14 wrote:Lewis was unlucky in regards to certain fights. Tyson and Holy kept away from him as long as they could

I think it was more likely that Lewis kept away from a prime Tyson for as long as he could.

I always thought a prime Tyson was pre-prison, and possibly last seen in the Douglas fight? That was February 1990, Lennox was 7-0 then and a novice pro. He was 3 years away from a world title shot at that point so at no point was Lewis in a position to fight a "prime" Tyson unfortunately. Once released, Tyson sought easy fight after easy fight, paying Lewis big step aside money to pursue Holyfield instead, as it was considered an easier fight than Lennox at the time, especially given Holyfields recent results. Obviously it backfired somewhat! Although Tyson made more for that fight than he would have for Lewis I guess so not the worst decision ever.

Lewis had already faced Vitali. So it's not as if he was ducking him was it? He turned up fat, old and looking past his best. He then beat Vitali and possibly realised it was time to call it a day. I'd like to see more 38 year old boxers retire than carry on for 'one last fight' No boxer in history has been in his prime at 38 mate, I'm sure you agree with that?

The biggest disappointment with Lewis' career for me was the Bowe fight(s)
We were robbed of a potential ATG trilogy there imo. Had everything turned out "perfect" then we'd have seen a series of fights between Lewis, Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield, which would have cemented the era as number 1 alongside the 70's heavyweight era imo. For whatever reason, and most, if not all of them, had nothing to do with Lewis ( who seemed keen to fight all of them ) they never happened, at least not when all in their pomp. Its a real shame.

Bowe/Lewis would have happened at least once. They signed in June 94 for a big fight in 95. All they had to do was get through Donald and McCall respectively and it was good to go.

davie wrote:

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Who has Joshua ACTUALLY fought to compare with Lewis?!

Again, he's been Champ for less than a year, give the kid a break...

Tell it to the guy that opened a thread comparing a rookie to an ATG

Tell it to the man who posted "Though in AJ's defense he does want the biggest fights out there and is willing to raise to every challenge. I'm not sure that the same could have been said for Lennox."

I do apologise mate. Next time I'll ask for your approval before creating a thread

Counter-puncher wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

davie wrote:
I wouldn't say there is a huge amount in it, Frank was a very good fighter.
I'd say if the 2 were to fight, it would be a mid-rounds stoppage, with me maybe leaning 70-30 in Joshuas favour but I certainly wouldn't write Frank off

I don't think AJ would have had a great deal more success, had he faced the fighters on Bruno's record

Technique wise and build they are very similar but AJ has massive confidence in his own ability which Bruno lacked. That's half the battle at elite level.

True stuey but I think the biggest difference is that Joshua is much more athletic than Bruno. Similarly, but not quite as, stiff, but a much better mover.

I dont think Joshua's movement is that great personally. Klitschko gets a lot of shit for being robotic and so on but I think he's far more fleet of foot for a guy of similar size.

Wlad always had pretty good footwork.

Both big blokes,and black, other than that , can't really see any comparison.

lefty wrote:

davie wrote:

Crease wrote: Again, he's been Champ for less than a year, give the kid a break...

Tell it to the guy that opened a thread comparing a rookie to an ATG

Tell it to the man who posted "Though in AJ's defense he does want the biggest fights out there and is willing to raise to every challenge. I'm not sure that the same could have been said for Lennox."

I do apologise mate. Next time I'll ask for your approval before creating a thread

Don't hold your breath, your having a bloody mare with this one.
Horses monthly top 30 are better

Stuarty30 wrote:

davie wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:
He's bloody better for god sake. I'm not an AJ fanboy or anything but he's better than Bruno was.

I wouldn't say there is a huge amount in it, Frank was a very good fighter.
I'd say if the 2 were to fight, it would be a mid-rounds stoppage, with me maybe leaning 70-30 in Joshuas favour but I certainly wouldn't write Frank off

I don't think AJ would have had a great deal more success, had he faced the fighters on Bruno's record

Technique wise and build they are very similar but AJ has massive confidence in his own ability which Bruno lacked. That's half the battle at elite level.

He's got massive confidence fighting the tomato cans being put in front of him, will be interesting to see if he's got the same levels of confidence when he gets into a tough fight with Haye, Povetkin, or Ortiz if he ever fights any of these guys.

davie wrote:

lefty wrote:

davie wrote:
Tell it to the guy that opened a thread comparing a rookie to an ATG

Tell it to the man who posted "Though in AJ's defense he does want the biggest fights out there and is willing to raise to every challenge. I'm not sure that the same could have been said for Lennox."

I do apologise mate. Next time I'll ask for your approval before creating a thread

Don't hold your breath, your having a bloody mare with this one.
Horses monthly top 30 are better

* You're

dr_devious wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

davie wrote:
I wouldn't say there is a huge amount in it, Frank was a very good fighter.
I'd say if the 2 were to fight, it would be a mid-rounds stoppage, with me maybe leaning 70-30 in Joshuas favour but I certainly wouldn't write Frank off

I don't think AJ would have had a great deal more success, had he faced the fighters on Bruno's record

Technique wise and build they are very similar but AJ has massive confidence in his own ability which Bruno lacked. That's half the battle at elite level.

He's got massive confidence fighting the tomato cans being put in front of him, will be interesting to see if he's got the same levels of confidence when he gets into a tough fight with Haye, Povetkin, or Ortiz if he ever fights any of these guys.

I think he's just a naturally confident guy. Of course there are bigger tests to come though.

I think the comparison between Bruno and Joshua is valid. Possibly Joshua is more fluid, but I wouldn't say they are massively dissimilar in ability. I think the later version of Lewis would likely eat Joshua alive, either in a Michael Grant fashion or as in the Shannon Briggs fight, where he had to deal with a lively first two rounds before taking over and dominating.

lefty wrote:

davie wrote:

lefty wrote: I do apologise mate. Next time I'll ask for your approval before creating a thread

Don't hold your breath, your having a bloody mare with this one.
Horses monthly top 30 are better

* You're

Don't be that guy, nobody likes that guy!

He won the title against a balloon who's arguably the worst HW title holder in recent memory. Has defended it once against a guy most had never heard of. Brazeale. And that's it in pro ranks

Wales wrote:He won the title against a balloon who's arguably the worst HW title holder in recent memory. Has defended it once against a guy most had never heard of. Brazeale. And that's it in pro ranks

Haye takes a (deserved) panning for his last 2 opponents

But how would you call Mark De Mori vs Charles Martin or Breazeale vs Gjergjaj

I don't think either would be a foregone conclusion.

Bearing in mind Martin and Breazeale were world title champion and challenger respectively and Hayes 2 opponents were comeback fights...

Does de Mori or Gzerjaz even walk the earth like god tho?

davie wrote:

lefty wrote:

davie wrote:
Don't hold your breath, your having a bloody mare with this one.
Horses monthly top 30 are better

* You're

Don't be that guy, nobody likes that guy!

Well don't be a knob then. I asked the question of who is/was the more talented; Lewis or Joshua. That's a perfectly reasonable question. Not sure how that equates to having a mare but okay.

Bruno had a better jab and was a better boxer than AJ currently is. For that matt, Mason outboxed Lewis for much of their bout, as did Bruno.

We'll never know how keen Joshua would've been to fight Mason, Ruddock, Bruno, McCall, Lewis, Bowe, Morrison, Mercer, Briggs, Holyfield, Tua, Tyson or Vitali (okay, so Lewis didn't fight Bowe; or himself). Ibeabuchi was the Ortiz of his day, and there is a chance for Joshua to fight him...

lefty wrote:

davie wrote:

lefty wrote: * You're

Don't be that guy, nobody likes that guy!

Well don't be a knob then. I asked the question of who is/was the more talented; Lewis or Joshua. That's a perfectly reasonable question. Not sure how that equates to having a mare but okay.

Deary me Lefty, untwist your panties for christs sake man

Is it you time of the month or something

davie wrote:

lefty wrote:

davie wrote:
Don't be that guy, nobody likes that guy!

Well don't be a knob then. I asked the question of who is/was the more talented; Lewis or Joshua. That's a perfectly reasonable question. Not sure how that equates to having a mare but okay.

Deary me Lefty, untwist your panties for christs sake man

Is it you time of the month or something

I'm fine thanks mate. You were being a bit of a prick and I called you out on it. Simple.

I just thought I would have a little say on this subject,
AJ was a novice champ, won ABAs, and world silver, olympic gold in about a 6 year period...who went on to become a world champ, he is still learning...
LL was an outstanding amatuer before he went pro, Lennox had an extended amateur career before going pro, the fights that he wanted were blocked, he got paid $6 step aside so Tyson could fight Ruddock rematch,
as people know me on here, I was with LL from the start of his career, so know a little bit about the background of his fight career
Eric