BoxRec

boxing_rocks wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
First off, i've had enough of the excuses with the Salido loss. Pointing to Salido's weight and the ref not calling it fair is a horrible looks for you Lomachicks. Loma agreed to the ref for that fight AND he climbed through the ropes knowing that Salido didn't make weight even though he could have walked away at that point. BS. He lost. Fair and square. Be honest about it.

In regards to you statement above bolded out, umm.....well yeah. I mean, title shots used to be earned inside the ring. I would have been fine if Loma got BIG fights with contenders and big names first and not title shots. I have no problem with fast tracking a boxer with big fights and no duds. But Loma made demands prior to signing with Arum and a title shot right away was one of his requirements. ONE OF HIS REQUIREMENTS? Do you see how ass backwards this is? The requirement from Loma is putrid enough but what trumps that is the fact that Arum got it done some how. A real sport would look into this back alley bs to see how it got done. It's sad.

I don't really make too much of the loss, he was adjusting to the pro game - it's not an excuse, it's a fact.

Lomachenko is hardly the first amateur golden boy to be given the velvet rope treatment is he? It's always happened in boxing.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing how the rest of his career pans out.

That fight was close, so if Salido had to dehydrate to the proper weight or if the ref took a point from him and/or decreased his fouling, Loma would have had a W.

The fact that ref was ignoring fouling and Loma didn't get a decision makes me think that Arum wanted to teach him a lesson and/or wanted to see what he is really worth, so he didn't work with the judges.

if IF'S and BUT's were peanuts and nuts, we'd all have a plentiful Christmas. If this happened...if that happened...IT DIDN'T. Don't try to rewrite history, call it as it happened. And please don't say that Arum was doing anything of the sort. That's ridiculous. Loma is the puppeteer in this relationship.

Kalan wrote:Who's the best P4P boxer-puncher in the sport??? If not Lomachenko?

It's not Ward after being outclassed by Kovalev in jabbing and power punching---and eating a short right that floored his ass... It's not Joshua because he has yet to fight Ortiz... Ortiz hasn't fought a World Champion yet so it's not him either... It's not Usyk who has 1 world-class win... Golovkin could be called number one except that Brook caught him with some sharp punches and won the 2nd round... Crawford hasn't faced anyone of Russell or Walters' caliber, not even Gamboa, who's been knocked down quit a few times... Thurman has been down once, and he doesn't polish guys off the way Lomachenko does... Canelo is a coward and won't face the best... Chocolatito looked like crap in his last fight, so it's not him... Spence has yet to get a guy like Pacquiao or Thurman into a ring, or win a World Title of any kind.

There is nobody out there with skills close to what Lomachenko displays... He's in a class by himself, I've never seen another one like him.

I honestly can't wait until Oscar Valdez puts Loma to sleep and then all of you fools will type your little hearts away the next day making excuses. Maybe it was too hot in the building or something. As Loma gets everything handed to him, there's a good looking kid from Mexico getting better and better every fight and he's got a chip on his shoulder from losing to Loma as a kid in the amateurs. Valdez is going to hand Loma his second loss and he will take over boxing.

Within 2 years, you Lomalovers will turn you love over to Valdez because the kid is fantastic and doing it the right way and the deserving way.

The title didn't fool me because I know the real answer is Wilt Chamberlain!

Syntax Error wrote:The title didn't fool me because I know the real answer is Wilt Chamberlain!

. . . the tremendously under appreciated prime minista.

caldo2025 wrote:

Kalan wrote:Who's the best P4P boxer-puncher in the sport??? If not Lomachenko?

It's not Ward after being outclassed by Kovalev in jabbing and power punching---and eating a short right that floored his ass... It's not Joshua because he has yet to fight Ortiz... Ortiz hasn't fought a World Champion yet so it's not him either... It's not Usyk who has 1 world-class win... Golovkin could be called number one except that Brook caught him with some sharp punches and won the 2nd round... Crawford hasn't faced anyone of Russell or Walters' caliber, not even Gamboa, who's been knocked down quit a few times... Thurman has been down once, and he doesn't polish guys off the way Lomachenko does... Canelo is a coward and won't face the best... Chocolatito looked like crap in his last fight, so it's not him... Spence has yet to get a guy like Pacquiao or Thurman into a ring, or win a World Title of any kind.

There is nobody out there with skills close to what Lomachenko displays... He's in a class by himself, I've never seen another one like him.

I honestly can't wait until Oscar Valdez puts Loma to sleep and then all of you fools will type your little hearts away the next day making excuses. Maybe it was too hot in the building or something. As Loma gets everything handed to him, there's a good looking kid from Mexico getting better and better every fight and he's got a chip on his shoulder from losing to Loma as a kid in the amateurs. Valdez is going to hand Loma his second loss and he will take over boxing.

Within 2 years, you Lomalovers will turn you love over to Valdez because the kid is fantastic and doing it the right way and the deserving way.

Oscar??

Cloutov wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Kalan wrote:Who's the best P4P boxer-puncher in the sport??? If not Lomachenko?

It's not Ward after being outclassed by Kovalev in jabbing and power punching---and eating a short right that floored his ass... It's not Joshua because he has yet to fight Ortiz... Ortiz hasn't fought a World Champion yet so it's not him either... It's not Usyk who has 1 world-class win... Golovkin could be called number one except that Brook caught him with some sharp punches and won the 2nd round... Crawford hasn't faced anyone of Russell or Walters' caliber, not even Gamboa, who's been knocked down quit a few times... Thurman has been down once, and he doesn't polish guys off the way Lomachenko does... Canelo is a coward and won't face the best... Chocolatito looked like crap in his last fight, so it's not him... Spence has yet to get a guy like Pacquiao or Thurman into a ring, or win a World Title of any kind.

There is nobody out there with skills close to what Lomachenko displays... He's in a class by himself, I've never seen another one like him.

I honestly can't wait until Oscar Valdez puts Loma to sleep and then all of you fools will type your little hearts away the next day making excuses. Maybe it was too hot in the building or something. As Loma gets everything handed to him, there's a good looking kid from Mexico getting better and better every fight and he's got a chip on his shoulder from losing to Loma as a kid in the amateurs. Valdez is going to hand Loma his second loss and he will take over boxing.

Within 2 years, you Lomalovers will turn you love over to Valdez because the kid is fantastic and doing it the right way and the deserving way.

Oscar??

I think that he was hyperventilating during that post.

caldo2025 wrote:

Kalan wrote:Who's the best P4P boxer-puncher in the sport??? If not Lomachenko?

It's not Ward after being outclassed by Kovalev in jabbing and power punching---and eating a short right that floored his ass... It's not Joshua because he has yet to fight Ortiz... Ortiz hasn't fought a World Champion yet so it's not him either... It's not Usyk who has 1 world-class win... Golovkin could be called number one except that Brook caught him with some sharp punches and won the 2nd round... Crawford hasn't faced anyone of Russell or Walters' caliber, not even Gamboa, who's been knocked down quit a few times... Thurman has been down once, and he doesn't polish guys off the way Lomachenko does... Canelo is a coward and won't face the best... Chocolatito looked like crap in his last fight, so it's not him... Spence has yet to get a guy like Pacquiao or Thurman into a ring, or win a World Title of any kind.

There is nobody out there with skills close to what Lomachenko displays... He's in a class by himself, I've never seen another one like him.

I honestly can't wait until Oscar Valdez puts Loma to sleep and then all of you fools will type your little hearts away the next day making excuses. Maybe it was too hot in the building or something. As Loma gets everything handed to him, there's a good looking kid from Mexico getting better and better every fight and he's got a chip on his shoulder from losing to Loma as a kid in the amateurs. Valdez is going to hand Loma his second loss and he will take over boxing.

Within 2 years, you Lomalovers will turn you love over to Valdez because the kid is fantastic and doing it the right way and the deserving way.

Loma's beaten much better opposition in 8 fights than Valdez has in 21, and Valdez got a very soft touch for his title winning fight; Rueda has never shown himself to be near the level of Russell, Martinez, or Salido, and he's struggled several times with limited opposition in Argentina.

I get that you're all huffy about some people going over the top with Loma, but you're just being unreasonable in the other direction. I also don't get how you think it's so preposterous that certain posters rate Loma above supposedly more proven fighters, when you're predicting that Loma would lose to someone whose best opponent was probably shot to shitt Evgeny Gradovich.

I don't know whether you're trolling, or are just really stupid. I guess you could be both....

crusader wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Kalan wrote:Who's the best P4P boxer-puncher in the sport??? If not Lomachenko?

It's not Ward after being outclassed by Kovalev in jabbing and power punching---and eating a short right that floored his ass... It's not Joshua because he has yet to fight Ortiz... Ortiz hasn't fought a World Champion yet so it's not him either... It's not Usyk who has 1 world-class win... Golovkin could be called number one except that Brook caught him with some sharp punches and won the 2nd round... Crawford hasn't faced anyone of Russell or Walters' caliber, not even Gamboa, who's been knocked down quit a few times... Thurman has been down once, and he doesn't polish guys off the way Lomachenko does... Canelo is a coward and won't face the best... Chocolatito looked like crap in his last fight, so it's not him... Spence has yet to get a guy like Pacquiao or Thurman into a ring, or win a World Title of any kind.

There is nobody out there with skills close to what Lomachenko displays... He's in a class by himself, I've never seen another one like him.

I honestly can't wait until Oscar Valdez puts Loma to sleep and then all of you fools will type your little hearts away the next day making excuses. Maybe it was too hot in the building or something. As Loma gets everything handed to him, there's a good looking kid from Mexico getting better and better every fight and he's got a chip on his shoulder from losing to Loma as a kid in the amateurs. Valdez is going to hand Loma his second loss and he will take over boxing.

Within 2 years, you Lomalovers will turn you love over to Valdez because the kid is fantastic and doing it the right way and the deserving way.

Loma's beaten much better opposition in 8 fights than Valdez has in 21, and Valdez got a very soft touch for his title winning fight; Rueda has never shown himself to be near the level of Russell, Martinez, or Salido, and he's struggled several times with limited opposition in Argentina.

I get that you're all huffy about some people going over the top with Loma, but you're just being unreasonable in the other direction. I also don't get how you think it's so preposterous that certain posters rate Loma above supposedly more proven fighters, when you're predicting that Loma would lose to someone whose best opponent was probably shot to shitt Evgeny Gradovich.

I don't know whether you're trolling, or are just really stupid. I guess you could be both....

Some people can intelligently discuss differences in opinion and there's people like you that have so little artillery that they have to resort to insults and calling people "stupid". If you don't see the injustice with a guy receiving a world title shot in his second pro fight compared to a kid that earned it in his 19th pro fight than there's nothing else to discuss.

Valdez & Loma is THE fight to make right now under 130. Loma's work rate against Valdez's power. I think that Loma will be favored but i have this a 50/50 fight.

You should admire the path Lomachenko choose for his carreer instead of saying he didn t deserve the title fight.
So many boxers goes 30 fight without testing themself and we critisize them for that. Lomachenko came to pro boxing with a 396-1 records and said he didn t have any time to waste. He was well deserve the title shot, I mean 396- and 1 !!!??

caldo2025 wrote:

crusader wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
I honestly can't wait until Oscar Valdez puts Loma to sleep and then all of you fools will type your little hearts away the next day making excuses. Maybe it was too hot in the building or something. As Loma gets everything handed to him, there's a good looking kid from Mexico getting better and better every fight and he's got a chip on his shoulder from losing to Loma as a kid in the amateurs. Valdez is going to hand Loma his second loss and he will take over boxing.

Within 2 years, you Lomalovers will turn you love over to Valdez because the kid is fantastic and doing it the right way and the deserving way.

Loma's beaten much better opposition in 8 fights than Valdez has in 21, and Valdez got a very soft touch for his title winning fight; Rueda has never shown himself to be near the level of Russell, Martinez, or Salido, and he's struggled several times with limited opposition in Argentina.

I get that you're all huffy about some people going over the top with Loma, but you're just being unreasonable in the other direction. I also don't get how you think it's so preposterous that certain posters rate Loma above supposedly more proven fighters, when you're predicting that Loma would lose to someone whose best opponent was probably shot to shitt Evgeny Gradovich.

I don't know whether you're trolling, or are just really stupid. I guess you could be both....

Some people can intelligently discuss differences in opinion and there's people like you that have so little artillery that they have to resort to insults and calling people "stupid". If you don't see the injustice with a guy receiving a world title shot in his second pro fight compared to a kid that earned it in his 19th pro fight than there's nothing else to discuss.

Valdez & Loma is THE fight to make right now under 130. Loma's work rate against Valdez's power. I think that Loma will be favored but i have this a 50/50 fight.

I've made plenty of logical arguments that don't impugn your intelligence, although maybe you don't have the tools to grasp them. Fighters get ranked for world title shots by winning subsidiary titles, and Loma did just that in his pro debut against someone ranked in the WBO's top 15. When other fighters beat that type of opponent off the bat, yet don't receive a ranking which qualifies them for a title shot, then you'd have more grounds to complain, but so far you haven't been able to cite any cases of that happening.

If other fighters want to fight for a belt earlier, they should win two Olympic golds, urge their promoter to match them very tough early on, and then avoid sitting on the top 15 ranking they earned in the ring. Spending 5 years beating hopeless club fighters before stepping up proves less than beating even one solid opponent does, and it wastes time

By the way, the guy Loma beat in his pro debut is arguably just as good as any of the fighters Valdez apparently proved himself against before fighting a mediocre opponent for a vacant title. Now Loma has fought Walters, Russell, Martinez, and Salido, yet you go after him while singing the praises of a guy whose best opponent is arguably shot to shitt Gradovich or Matias Rueda

lmao

..some time ago we all applauded and admired Rocky Balboa, the bum and a prize fighter, for getting that chance to face the HW Champ ...today, we go after 2-time Olympic Champ challenging the best and having the audacity to fight the belt-holder in one of his first professional fights

Yep, and I'd say that calling Loma P4P #1 is more reasonable than acting like he needs to prove himself by padding his record with mediocrity.

How about Valdez starts increasing the quantity of good opponents he's boxed, rather than feasting on people like Osawa? Half of Loma's 8 opponents are better than anyone Valdez has been in with.

crusader wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

crusader wrote:
Loma's beaten much better opposition in 8 fights than Valdez has in 21, and Valdez got a very soft touch for his title winning fight; Rueda has never shown himself to be near the level of Russell, Martinez, or Salido, and he's struggled several times with limited opposition in Argentina.

I get that you're all huffy about some people going over the top with Loma, but you're just being unreasonable in the other direction. I also don't get how you think it's so preposterous that certain posters rate Loma above supposedly more proven fighters, when you're predicting that Loma would lose to someone whose best opponent was probably shot to shitt Evgeny Gradovich.

I don't know whether you're trolling, or are just really stupid. I guess you could be both....

Some people can intelligently discuss differences in opinion and there's people like you that have so little artillery that they have to resort to insults and calling people "stupid". If you don't see the injustice with a guy receiving a world title shot in his second pro fight compared to a kid that earned it in his 19th pro fight than there's nothing else to discuss.

Valdez & Loma is THE fight to make right now under 130. Loma's work rate against Valdez's power. I think that Loma will be favored but i have this a 50/50 fight.

I've made plenty of logical arguments that don't impugn your intelligence, although maybe you don't have the tools to grasp them. Fighters get ranked for world title shots by winning subsidiary titles, and Loma did just that in his pro debut against someone ranked in the WBO's top 15. When other fighters beat that type of opponent off the bat, yet don't receive a ranking which qualifies them for a title shot, then you'd have more grounds to complain, but so far you haven't been able to cite any cases of that happening.

If other fighters want to fight for a belt earlier, they should win two Olympic golds, urge their promoter to match them very tough early on, and then avoid sitting on the top 15 ranking they earned in the ring. Spending 5 years beating hopeless club fighters before stepping up proves less than beating even one solid opponent does, and it wastes time

By the way, the guy Loma beat in his pro debut is arguably just as good as any of the fighters Valdez apparently proved himself against before fighting a mediocre opponent for a vacant title. Now Loma has fought Walters, Russell, Martinez, and Salido, yet you go after him while singing the praises of a guy whose best opponent is arguably shot to shitt Gradovich or Matias Rueda

lmao

Having a thesaurus nearby doesn't improve your argument but at least you didn't resort to name calling like a child so good for you. Baby steps.

The point you fail terribly at grasping is that title shots should not bargening chips that promoters have in their back pockets to use to sign fighters. That's like Tom Brady signing with the Jets because they promised him a trip to super bowl. In no other sport is this garbage conceivable. Can you imagine how much dirty money changed hands already in this kids career so far.

So if they opened a Crusader boxing division, boxers all get title shots if they win their first fight. If they lose the title shot. They immediately get another though. That's so ass backwards its historical not hysterical. Nice work.

His argument doesn't need to be improved; it has been better than yours throughout. Also there's perhaps no more tellingly weak putdown than sniping at somebody for having a broader vocabulary than you do.

squiggy wrote:His argument doesn't need to be improved; it has been better than yours throughout. Also there's perhaps no more tellingly weak putdown than sniping at somebody for having a broader vocabulary than you do.

When someone named "Squiggy" comes running to your defense, you know you've lost that argument. Thanks though.

Caldo- I dig the way you try to get some perspective on the Lomahype.

However w/r/t his being given shots 'early' and supposedly undeservedly I disagree for two reasons, first that the results prove he is worthy of the shots, and second, if you're going to say he didn't pay his dues.and jumped the queue, then there should be a whole stack of more deserving candidates behind him who were stymied by his premature rise. I don't see any such stack of more worthy contenders

Counter-puncher wrote:Caldo- I dig the way you try to get some perspective on the Lomahype.

However w/r/t his being given shots 'early' and supposedly undeservedly I disagree for two reasons, first that the results prove he is worthy of the shots, and second, if you're going to say he didn't pay his dues.and jumped the queue, then there should be a whole stack of more deserving candidates behind him who were stymied by his premature rise. I don't see any such stack of more worthy contenders

Somehow through this post, people assume that I do not appreciate Lomachenko, the boxer. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm as enamored with this kid as the next guy and couldn't argue with anyone that says that he's not the most impressive boxer we've seen come along in many years. Do i think that he's going to be a top P4P guy, absolutely. Once GGG is gone, usher him on up the latter and i'll vote for him.

My only problem is how entitled this kid has been and the opportunities that he's already been afforded for just having showed up and demanded it. It is not a great look for the sport, whether he won the fights they handed him or not. Whether his talent belonged in those fights or not, he was undeserving of the opportunities. The ends do not justify the means and Boxing allowed a virtual spat in the eye of every boxer before him that had to make their name for themselves and fight in Cleveland to a capacity crowd of 8 on their way up. If you all can't see the injustices involved with this than I don't know what to tell you all.

El LomaStinko

caldo2025 wrote:
When someone named "Squiggy" comes running to your defense, .

Lomassiah needs to cleanout 130 before moving up. There are plenty of tough customers who will not quit who hit plenty hard and will keep coming:Vargas, Sosa, Pedraza, Corrales, Uchiyama, Miura, etc.. Revenging the Salido defeat is not adequate.

Tanzio wrote:Lomassiah needs to cleanout 130 before moving up. There are plenty of tough customers who will not quit who hit plenty hard and will keep coming:Vargas, Sosa, Pedraza, Corrales, Uchiyama, Miura, etc.. Revenging the Salido defeat is not adequate.

I d say they ll take anyone right now. It doesn t look like they want to protect him or something. The question is who will volontary jump in.

I think Lomachenko deserves a lot of the hype he's getting because he's doing something that almost no other active fighter is doing these days. Getting in there with the best. Taking chances. It's been a year of hand picked opponents and the big names not fighting each other. Lomachenko is a breath of fresh air. People with 4-5 as many wins as him and some that are even still undefeated don't have nearly as impressive win resumes as Lomachenko. The Golovkins, Canelos, Wilders, Adonis Stevensons, just aren't stepping up. Of course there's exceptions like Terrence Crawford and Kovalev/Ward but it's hard to tell who the best are P4P when no one's fighting each other. Lomachenko with just his 7 Wins has a way more impressive win resume than the majority of the other active champions out there right now

caldo2025 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Caldo- I dig the way you try to get some perspective on the Lomahype.

However w/r/t his being given shots 'early' and supposedly undeservedly I disagree for two reasons, first that the results prove he is worthy of the shots, and second, if you're going to say he didn't pay his dues.and jumped the queue, then there should be a whole stack of more deserving candidates behind him who were stymied by his premature rise. I don't see any such stack of more worthy contenders

Somehow through this post, people assume that I do not appreciate Lomachenko, the boxer. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm as enamored with this kid as the next guy and couldn't argue with anyone that says that he's not the most impressive boxer we've seen come along in many years. Do i think that he's going to be a top P4P guy, absolutely. Once GGG is gone, usher him on up the latter and i'll vote for him.

My only problem is how entitled this kid has been and the opportunities that he's already been afforded for just having showed up and demanded it. It is not a great look for the sport, whether he won the fights they handed him or not. Whether his talent belonged in those fights or not, he was undeserving of the opportunities. The ends do not justify the means and Boxing allowed a virtual spat in the eye of every boxer before him that had to make their name for themselves and fight in Cleveland to a capacity crowd of 8 on their way up. If you all can't see the injustices involved with this than I don't know what to tell you all.

Should an Olympic champion be paid more for their pro debut then a fighter with no amateur background? If you think so then that is a virtual spat in the eye of every boxer before him that had to make their name for themselves and fight in Cleveland to a capacity crowd of 8 on their way up. My pro debut netted me $50. How much do you think Shakur Stevenson is going to make?

Should an Olympic champion have the ability to train with the best trainers in the best facilities they can afford? If you think so then that is a virtual spat in the eye of every boxer before him that had to make their name for themselves and fight in Cleveland to a capacity crowd of 8 on their way up.

Should an Olympic champion be signed by a big promotional company before their first pro fight? If you think so then that is a virtual spat in the eye of every boxer before him that had to make their name for themselves and fight in Cleveland to a capacity crowd of 8 on their way up.

Do you believe that the title of Champion should go to the best? If so, then the ends absolutely do justify the means as the result of fighting for a title should be to see who is worthy of that title.

I get it, your entire point is that you have to "pay your dues" to reach the top because that's what everyone else had to do. Unfortunately that argument just isn't very good.

caldo2025 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Caldo- I dig the way you try to get some perspective on the Lomahype.

However w/r/t his being given shots 'early' and supposedly undeservedly I disagree for two reasons, first that the results prove he is worthy of the shots, and second, if you're going to say he didn't pay his dues.and jumped the queue, then there should be a whole stack of more deserving candidates behind him who were stymied by his premature rise. I don't see any such stack of more worthy contenders

Somehow through this post, people assume that I do not appreciate Lomachenko, the boxer. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm as enamored with this kid as the next guy and couldn't argue with anyone that says that he's not the most impressive boxer we've seen come along in many years. Do i think that he's going to be a top P4P guy, absolutely. Once GGG is gone, usher him on up the latter and i'll vote for him.

My only problem is how entitled this kid has been and the opportunities that he's already been afforded for just having showed up and demanded it. It is not a great look for the sport, whether he won the fights they handed him or not. Whether his talent belonged in those fights or not, he was undeserving of the opportunities. The ends do not justify the means and Boxing allowed a virtual spat in the eye of every boxer before him that had to make their name for themselves and fight in Cleveland to a capacity crowd of 8 on their way up. If you all can't see the injustices involved with this than I don't know what to tell you all.

So what you have preferred loma do? Sit around beating the shit out of the type of dudes that valdez fights just to give the impression of having earned it?

Its the same thing as the guy with the degree from Harvard getting the job over the dude with the degree from the local community college.