Round-By-Round - Anthony Joshua vs. Wladimir Klitschko - April 29th 2017

[Rob3_142]

Whilst it's fine to say the level of opposition Joshua has faced hasn't been great, the same can be said of Fury before he fought Wlad. It's a bit of a non point really; if general consensus is he needs to step up, his lack of top level experience is a given when he actually does.

I'm assuming that sparring plays a big part of your development. I mean you'll spar a lot more than you'll fight competitively. Obviously there's things you won't learn in sparring that you'll learn in a fight, but how much more?

I'm speaking purely from a non-boxer perspective, mind you. Is this a fair assessment?

[samwbr]

Not sure he's lost the ability as such. Against Jennings to an extent and clearly against Fury, he was facing boxers, trying to be evasive, setting traps for him and take him out of his comfort zone.

If AJ fights as AJ usually does he'll be a more attractive target to Wlad, to let his punches go

However, if AJ and his team have any sense (and I'm not implying they don't) they'll learn lessons from the last couple of fights and know how to make Wlad think twice about pulling the trigger. I'm not saying replicate Fury entirely, but there's plenty to be gleaned from Fury's jerky style, unpredictability and head movement

Wlad will already be wary of letting punches go against a heavy handed fighter like Joshua, if AJ can make himself a more elusive target and give something back that makes Wlad think, he could make Wlad go into his shell again.

If he fights as we have seen him till now, trying to walk through an opponent and just looking for an opportunity to end it, he could set himself up perfectly for Wlad.
Wlad of old would eat that up all day, control him with the jab, break through his guard with straight shots, catch him coming in and tie him up.
He might get away with it if Wlad has aged as many have predicted but it would be a dangerous tactic.

I think it is dangerous to try re-invent his style. I think he has to try keep to his basics, and look to counter on the outside. Once Wlad feels the power, he'll have to decide to stick or twist. Whoever lands the solid punch first will likely go on and win the fight.

I think his basics are custom made for Wlad and if his chin is as suspect as some suspect, then he'll get dropped if Wlad is still sharp.

Of course that "if" needs reiterating. Because if Wlad is done, Joshua will likely go through him regardless.
But if Wlad isn't shot and isn't as gunshy as some think/hope, then AJ will have to do something different, something significantly different if you ask me.

His lack of head movement combined with his naturally aggressive nature are a real concern for me. Coming in with that stationary target against someone so proficient at catching you coming in with that right hand, are a bad mix IMO

Wlad being out 18 months and not being hit hard for some time at 41yrs old will be worrying for him I think.

[wesshaw1985]

Whilst it's fine to say the level of opposition Joshua has faced hasn't been great, the same can be said of Fury before he fought Wlad. It's a bit of a non point really; if general consensus is he needs to step up, his lack of top level experience is a given when he actually does.

Nobody was saying Fury was number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad, given his opposition.
Can the same be said of AJ?

[wesshaw1985]

50,000 tickets already gone - http://www.BS.com/anthony-josh ... ld--111954

[Boxerbeetle]

Whilst it's fine to say the level of opposition Joshua has faced hasn't been great, the same can be said of Fury before he fought Wlad. It's a bit of a non point really; if general consensus is he needs to step up, his lack of top level experience is a given when he actually does.

Nobody was saying Fury was number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad, given his opposition.
Can the same be said of AJ?

Did Fury look anywhere near number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad??

[Rob3_142]

Whilst it's fine to say the level of opposition Joshua has faced hasn't been great, the same can be said of Fury before he fought Wlad. It's a bit of a non point really; if general consensus is he needs to step up, his lack of top level experience is a given when he actually does.

Nobody was saying Fury was number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad, given his opposition.
Can the same be said of AJ?

Did Fury look anywhere near number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad??

Maybe not, but he was number 1 afterwards.

[dirk2686]

Nobody was saying Fury was number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad, given his opposition.
Can the same be said of AJ?

Did Fury look anywhere near number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad??

Maybe not, but he was number 1 afterwards.

Of course, but the point still stands. Whilst people have perhaps overrated Joshua in some quarters there is a realistic argument to say he would be the favourite to beat anyone else in the world, hence that's a reasonable start to claims that he could be considered the divisional #1.

[Rob3_142]

Did Fury look anywhere near number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad??

Maybe not, but he was number 1 afterwards.

Of course, but the point still stands. Whilst people have perhaps overrated Joshua in some quarters there is a realistic argument to say he would be the favourite to beat anyone else in the world, hence that's a reasonable start to claims that he could be considered the divisional #1.

100%. But Joshua's position as number one would only be based on potential, not on fights won.

I too think the Joshua beats everyone in the division, including a fit and motivated Fury. But number one status should be based on winning boxing matches. If/when he beats Wlad, he will establish himself as top of the tree.

[wesshaw1985]

Did Fury look anywhere near number 1 in the division before he fought Wlad??

Maybe not, but he was number 1 afterwards.

Of course, but the point still stands. Whilst people have perhaps overrated Joshua in some quarters there is a realistic argument to say he would be the favourite to beat anyone else in the world, hence that's a reasonable start to claims that he could be considered the divisional #1.

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

[Rob3_142]

Maybe not, but he was number 1 afterwards.

Of course, but the point still stands. Whilst people have perhaps overrated Joshua in some quarters there is a realistic argument to say he would be the favourite to beat anyone else in the world, hence that's a reasonable start to claims that he could be considered the divisional #1.

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

What odds would you give Joshua against each fighter mentioned above? Just out of interest.

[wesshaw1985]

Of course, but the point still stands. Whilst people have perhaps overrated Joshua in some quarters there is a realistic argument to say he would be the favourite to beat anyone else in the world, hence that's a reasonable start to claims that he could be considered the divisional #1.

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

What odds would you give Joshua against each fighter mentioned above? Just out of interest.

Today?
IMO Fury is a big favourite around 80/20 in Furys favour, Wlad/Povetkin are 60/40 against Joshua, Ortiz/Wilder vs. Joshua are 50/50 fights.
If any of the above were underdogs against AJ then I would put money on them.
You can get 2/1 on Wlad with some bookies and yes I will be having a dabble on him...

[Boxerbeetle]

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

What odds would you give Joshua against each fighter mentioned above? Just out of interest.

Today?
IMO Fury is a big favourite around 80/20 in Furys favour, Wlad/Povetkin are 60/40 against Joshua, Ortiz/Wilder vs. Joshua are 50/50 fights.
If any of the above were underdogs against AJ then I would put money on them.
You can get 2/1 on Wlad with some bookies and yes I will be having a dabble on him...

Fury an 80/20 favourite over Joshua?

[wesshaw1985]

What odds would you give Joshua against each fighter mentioned above? Just out of interest.

Today?
IMO Fury is a big favourite around 80/20 in Furys favour, Wlad/Povetkin are 60/40 against Joshua, Ortiz/Wilder vs. Joshua are 50/50 fights.
If any of the above were underdogs against AJ then I would put money on them.
You can get 2/1 on Wlad with some bookies and yes I will be having a dabble on him...

Fury an 80/20 favourite over Joshua?

I believe Fury moves too much and too well for Joshua, l think Fury picks up a very simple points win if they were to meet.
Joshua could catch Fury but i dont think its likely, hence the 20%...

[Rob3_142]

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

What odds would you give Joshua against each fighter mentioned above? Just out of interest.

Today?
IMO Fury is a big favourite around 80/20 in Furys favour, Wlad/Povetkin are 60/40 against Joshua, Ortiz/Wilder vs. Joshua are 50/50 fights.
If any of the above were underdogs against AJ then I would put money on them.
You can get 2/1 on Wlad with some bookies and yes I will be having a dabble on him...

When you say today, you mean today in a perfect world where Fury is fit to go?

I also think 20% is extremely low chance for Joshua. Although I agree that Fury does move well for a big fella, it's not like he's unhittable. We're talking that Fury would have to avoid Joshua for 12 rounds, a guy who's very accurate with his punches, and has no problem pulling the trigger. The only way I see it going 12 rounds is if Fury pulls a Malik Scott, and just avoids Joshua like the plague.

[wesshaw1985]

What odds would you give Joshua against each fighter mentioned above? Just out of interest.

Today?
IMO Fury is a big favourite around 80/20 in Furys favour, Wlad/Povetkin are 60/40 against Joshua, Ortiz/Wilder vs. Joshua are 50/50 fights.
If any of the above were underdogs against AJ then I would put money on them.
You can get 2/1 on Wlad with some bookies and yes I will be having a dabble on him...

When you say today, you mean today in a perfect world where Fury is fit to go?

I also think 20% is extremely low chance for Joshua. Although I agree that Fury does move well for a big fella, it's not like he's unhittable. We're talking that Fury would have to avoid Joshua for 12 rounds, a guy who's very accurate with his punches, and has no problem pulling the trigger. The only way I see it going 12 rounds is if Fury pulls a Malik Scott, and just avoids Joshua like the plague.

Just my opinion Rob my friend.
Yes, i am referring to Fury vs. Joshua with both men fit and healthy.
80/20, 75/25, 70/30 whichever, ultimately i think Fury is the favourite to win the fight.
Fury is hittable but he is constantly moving with the punches in an attempt to negate the power and Joshua has been very accurate against opponents that are in the ring to be hit, its not that impressive against that calibre of opponent imo...

[dirk2686]

Maybe not, but he was number 1 afterwards.

Of course, but the point still stands. Whilst people have perhaps overrated Joshua in some quarters there is a realistic argument to say he would be the favourite to beat anyone else in the world, hence that's a reasonable start to claims that he could be considered the divisional #1.

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

Yes.

[wesshaw1985]

Of course, but the point still stands. Whilst people have perhaps overrated Joshua in some quarters there is a realistic argument to say he would be the favourite to beat anyone else in the world, hence that's a reasonable start to claims that he could be considered the divisional #1.

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

Yes.

Can you be my personal bookie please?

[Rob3_142]

Today?
IMO Fury is a big favourite around 80/20 in Furys favour, Wlad/Povetkin are 60/40 against Joshua, Ortiz/Wilder vs. Joshua are 50/50 fights.
If any of the above were underdogs against AJ then I would put money on them.
You can get 2/1 on Wlad with some bookies and yes I will be having a dabble on him...

When you say today, you mean today in a perfect world where Fury is fit to go?

I also think 20% is extremely low chance for Joshua. Although I agree that Fury does move well for a big fella, it's not like he's unhittable. We're talking that Fury would have to avoid Joshua for 12 rounds, a guy who's very accurate with his punches, and has no problem pulling the trigger. The only way I see it going 12 rounds is if Fury pulls a Malik Scott, and just avoids Joshua like the plague.

Just my opinion Rob my friend.
Yes, i am referring to Fury vs. Joshua with both men fit and healthy.
80/20, 75/25, 70/30 whichever, ultimately i think Fury is the favourite to win the fight.
Fury is hittable but he is constantly moving with the punches in an attempt to negate the power and Joshua has been very accurate against opponents that are in the ring to be hit, its not that impressive against that calibre of opponent imo...

No no, I appreciate your opinion. I think you construct your arguments well, and are generally very reasonable with your judgements. This is purely a case of different opinions. I genuinely wish that one day we will see both fit and in the ring together, but my optimism is fairly low.

[Rob3_142]

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

Yes.

Can you be my personal bookie please?

The odds I would give Joshua to beat the above fighters would be;

1/3 vs. Fury
2/3 vs. Wlad
1/4 vs. Povetkin
1/2 vs. Ortiz
Evens vs. Wilder

[dirk2686]

You would make Joshua favourite over Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Ortiz and Wilder if any of those fights were made today?

Yes.

Can you be my personal bookie please?

No need for me to be your personal bookie. Joshua actually is the favourite with the real bookies. Just have a look on oddschecker.

[wesshaw1985]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xkm_JFTag

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes.

Can you be my personal bookie please?

No need for me to be your personal bookie. Joshua actually is the favourite with the real bookies. Just have a look on oddschecker.

Did he open the favourite? If not the price will have shifted due to the money bet on him, I believe it works that way.

[dirk2686]

Can you be my personal bookie please?

No need for me to be your personal bookie. Joshua actually is the favourite with the real bookies. Just have a look on oddschecker.

Did he open the favourite? If not the price will have shifted due to the money bet on him, I believe it works that way.

Again, just look on oddschecker. You can see the entire odds history.

To be fair, you can make a simple enough case for him in all those fights. Fury? Never that good really. Dubious condition. Not much power. Inactive. Wilder? A less rounded version of Joshua who's one major asset (power) is probably equalled if not bettered. Wlad? Old. Barely threw a shot against Fury. Also inactive. Looked on the slide for two years.

It's simple enough, but the arguments against Joshua are about experience largely.

[Rob3_142]

Yes.

Can you be my personal bookie please?

No need for me to be your personal bookie. Joshua actually is the favourite with the real bookies. Just have a look on oddschecker.

He wasn't asking for the bookies odds, he was asking you what you'd personally make the odds for those respective fights.

[Autobarn]

Whilst it's fine to say the level of opposition Joshua has faced hasn't been great, the same can be said of Fury before he fought Wlad. It's a bit of a non point really; if general consensus is he needs to step up, his lack of top level experience is a given when he actually does.

Great point.

Fury had to face Chisora and McDermott twice apiece to beat them decisively, and had been down or hurt versus Pakjk and Firtha, and was even facing cruiserweight Cunningham! By these standards it's impossible that he beat Wlad. Perhaps we shouldn't trust our eyes.

People do approach fights in literal minded fashion, "I didn't see him do it, so he can't do it" - when the same thing applies to so many fighters prior to them stepping up and succeeding. "He didn't develop, because he didn't fight good enough opposition in their prime!" When in fact everything is in a state of constant flux, anything possible.