BoxRec

Crease wrote:

Ned Stark wrote:We'll never know? The man in the ring knew he was beat.

One punch can change everything.

Yes those 'against the run of play, come from behind, fight-changing haymakers' land so often, obviously Brook should have just done that instead.

Boxerbeetle wrote:Yes those 'against the run of play, come from behind, fight-changing haymakers' land so often, obviously Brook should have just done that instead.

Carl Froch? Rocky Marciano? Hasim Rahman?

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Yes those 'against the run of play, come from behind, fight-changing haymakers' land so often, obviously Brook should have just done that instead.

Carl Froch? Rocky Marciano? Hasim Rahman?

Exactly. Out of the thousands of fights each year, there's a relative handful in history where it's actually happened.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Yes those 'against the run of play, come from behind, fight-changing haymakers' land so often, obviously Brook should have just done that instead.

Carl Froch? Rocky Marciano? Hasim Rahman?

Exactly. Out of the thousands of fights each year, there's a relative handful in history where it's actually happened.

If Crease is talking about the Froch-Taylor fight; Froch was in the ascendancy when he got the stoppage in the last 14 seconds or whatever it was. Taylor had visibily slowed. With Brook-Spence, it was the other way around.

There's no way Brook was turning that around. Spence hadn't even been visibily rocked in the bout to even give Brook some hope.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Ned Stark wrote:

littlepug wrote: More heart could've seen him win it, its about how much you want it

He was second best from round 7, especially in 10. What could more heart achieve? The opponent was better, stronger and on top. Heart doesn't magic ability and strength that isn't there. He went sh1t or bust in 10 when it looked like he was about to be stopped. That was heart and it still wasn't enough. Simply, the other lad was too good and he was beat

Exactly. Some of these comments are frankly pathetic. Wanting to see a man seriously injured just to show some 'heart'. I always thought this was a proper boxing forum for people who understand the sport and respect the fighters, but seems I was wrong

Ned, Boxerbeetle some of us are on the same wavelength but some people just find it hard to accept, bloodthirsty some of them. In my experience of actually talking about boxing nowadays it seems that people just want to see knockouts and blood letting, not just on forums but in the street, pub and workplace. MMA is partly to blame in my opinion as lots of younger boxing fans are used to watching that too but I find that they can't seem to appreciate a good boxing contest unless there is a violent conclusion, you can't be beaten unless you are knocked unconscious or are bleeding profusely.

Maybe I'm just getting too old for all this . . . . .

If Kell couldn't see he did the right thing packing in, especially considering his injury in the GGG fight.

As for Bellew, he wouldn't have known the extent of Kell's injury straight after the fight, if he did he wouldn't have made the comments he did.

Crease wrote:

Ned Stark wrote:We'll never know? The man in the ring knew he was beat.

One punch can change everything.

At one point, not sure when but I remember thinking that exact thing, come in Kell, one big punch needed here. He was gassed, getting out worked and Spence was totally on top. Got excited in the 10th round when Kell went for it after being on the deck but it wasn't enough. We can't know for 100% certain but I believe that one big punch wasn't there when he took the knee. Lack of vision, lack of stamina, pain and just that helpless feeling of being beat meant that one big punch wasn't on the cards. I think Kell knew it, he'd shown heart, he wanted it but was simply done. You're right technically when you say we'll never know, but it's not something that I'll be wondering about, that comeback attempt failed in round ten

littlepug wrote:Unfortunately for kell the bar is set quite high in terms of what we expect from top level fighters and anything less will never be accepted by the hard core fans, all the "don't wanna risk your eyesight" talk is a normal attitude to take for regular folk but world class professional boxers are not regular people which is why we watch them sometimes in awe at their willingness to win at all costs, so while an admirable performance from kell his heart wasn't quite big enough to complete the job

I don't know what more you expected of Kell Brook last night and maybe you have entered the ring yourself but that is a very arrogant and obnoxious post littlepug.

"don't wanna risk your eyesight is for regular folk" ???? wow

Jackson328 wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Ned Stark wrote: He was second best from round 7, especially in 10. What could more heart achieve? The opponent was better, stronger and on top. Heart doesn't magic ability and strength that isn't there. He went sh1t or bust in 10 when it looked like he was about to be stopped. That was heart and it still wasn't enough. Simply, the other lad was too good and he was beat

Exactly. Some of these comments are frankly pathetic. Wanting to see a man seriously injured just to show some 'heart'. I always thought this was a proper boxing forum for people who understand the sport and respect the fighters, but seems I was wrong

Ned, Boxerbeetle some of us are on the same wavelength but some people just find it hard to accept, bloodthirsty some of them. In my experience of actually talking about boxing nowadays it seems that people just want to see knockouts and blood letting, not just on forums but in the street, pub and workplace. MMA is partly to blame in my opinion as lots of younger boxing fans are used to watching that too but I find that they can't seem to appreciate a good boxing contest unless there is a violent conclusion, you can't be beaten unless you are knocked unconscious or are bleeding profusely.

Maybe I'm just getting too old for all this . . . . .

Ha, yeah maybe I'm getting too old for it as well...I often have a silly joke on here about boxers being forced to fight until ko'd or allowed to bring weapons into the ring etc, but in reality I am usually the one shouting for the ref to stop a fight early to prevent someone getting seriously hurt. The older I get and the more boxing I watch, the less I want to see someone actually get ko'd.

In reality, amazing comebacks hardly ever happen in boxing, especially at world level. Brook did the right thing yesterday, same as Matthyse did against Postol. They gave it their best shot but were losing, getting hit regularly and felt they had serious and potentially life-changing injuries - only an idiot would continue under those circumstances.

If I had paid the big bucks to sit in the front row I wouldn't have felt short changed with how the fight unfolded. Brook put up a good fight and lost to the better man on the night. He showed lots of heart and courage, I am not among those who are questioning his bravery. He earned his pay cheque and tested himself against another top fighter who many people would have avoided if they were in Brooks shoes.

The only fight I would like to see him stay at welter for would be Khan otherwise I hope he does move up in weight and take one or two easier fights before testing himself against the top guys again.

I wonder how many of the keyboard warriors on here have suffered an injury of this nature. If they had, they wouldn't be spouting such BS.

Jim watt was calling McClellan a quitter right after the Benn fight just before McClellan collapsed

TheLeprechaun wrote:Jim watt was calling McClellan a quitter right after the Benn fight just before McClellan collapsed

To be fair he did seem to just quit. I always remembering him saying 'what's hurting him?'. No one knew what was going to happen.

Jackson328 wrote:

littlepug wrote:Unfortunately for kell the bar is set quite high in terms of what we expect from top level fighters and anything less will never be accepted by the hard core fans, all the "don't wanna risk your eyesight" talk is a normal attitude to take for regular folk but world class professional boxers are not regular people which is why we watch them sometimes in awe at their willingness to win at all costs, so while an admirable performance from kell his heart wasn't quite big enough to complete the job

I don't know what more you expected of Kell Brook last night and maybe you have entered the ring yourself but that is a very arrogant and obnoxious post littlepug.

"don't wanna risk your eyesight is for regular folk" ???? wow

C'mon Jackson boxing doesn't reflect the real world its an escape from it, I expected from brook the best that he could give and that's exactly what I got, whether he fell below my expectations is totally irrelevant, the bar was set by better fighters than brook but that doesn't make him a bad fighter any more than I'm arrogant and obnoxious for stating the obvious

littlepug wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:

littlepug wrote:Unfortunately for kell the bar is set quite high in terms of what we expect from top level fighters and anything less will never be accepted by the hard core fans, all the "don't wanna risk your eyesight" talk is a normal attitude to take for regular folk but world class professional boxers are not regular people which is why we watch them sometimes in awe at their willingness to win at all costs, so while an admirable performance from kell his heart wasn't quite big enough to complete the job

I don't know what more you expected of Kell Brook last night and maybe you have entered the ring yourself but that is a very arrogant and obnoxious post littlepug.

"don't wanna risk your eyesight is for regular folk" ???? wow

C'mon Jackson boxing doesn't reflect the real world its an escape from it, I expected from brook the best that he could give and that's exactly what I got, whether he fell below my expectations is totally irrelevant, the bar was set by better fighters than brook but that doesn't make him a bad fighter any more than I'm arrogant and obnoxious for stating the obvious

Fair enough pug but I don't think there's much wrong with Brooks heart, he was just very unlucky to cop another eye injury that he's suffered before so maybe he knew the risk of fighting on with it was not worth it. He was looking towards his corner and shaking his head it seemed but maybe Dom didn't want to throw the towel in as he'd done that in his last fight and was criticised for it, maybe he wanted to let Kell decide. Maybe they should have let the doctor look at him between rounds, if a doctor had advised the ref to stop it I doubt we'd be talking so much about it now

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Yes those 'against the run of play, come from behind, fight-changing haymakers' land so often, obviously Brook should have just done that instead.

Carl Froch? Rocky Marciano? Hasim Rahman?

Exactly. Out of the thousands of fights each year, there's a relative handful in history where it's actually happened.

It happened in the fight before the main event did it not? Groves was getting battered.

You guys must be hardcore brook fans or something, its common place for fighter to carry on with injuries and common place for fighters to turn a fight they were behind on.

What do you guys actually want to happen in boxing if a fighter is behind? should they just take knees from now on and bow themselves out of world title fights?

We arent talking about a fight where a fighter needs to save himself for another day or a low paid small hall fight, we are talking about Kel Brook fighting to keep his world title and in the end he bottled it. Quite frankly it explained why kel brook has had such a lack lustre career, it was because he doesnt want it enough.

Would any of these fighters have taken a knee in the same situation?:
Froch
DeGale
Groves
Frampton
Burns
Quigg
Crolla
Haye
Joshua
Whyte
Chisora
Fury
Eubank Jr
Coyle
Khan
Hatton
Benn
Eubank snr

I could just carry on naming fighters who wouldnt have bottled it - its rare for a real fighter to take knee to pretend it isnt is just stupid. If Brook was winning that fight he wouldnt have taken a knee regardless of his eye and thats a fact. He took a knee because he was loosing and didnt want it enough to go out on his shield. Just like he didnt want to get in shape enough through the vast amount of his career and why he avoided the big fights and chased khan through most of his career. He fought GGG with the mindset that they would "give it a go" but if he lost it didnt matter because he still didnt lose the welterweight title, and he only fought Spence because he had to.

He quit thats fine he wanted to save himself for another day but i have no interest in watching him again as a ppv fighter.

Jackson328 wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Ned Stark wrote: He was second best from round 7, especially in 10. What could more heart achieve? The opponent was better, stronger and on top. Heart doesn't magic ability and strength that isn't there. He went sh1t or bust in 10 when it looked like he was about to be stopped. That was heart and it still wasn't enough. Simply, the other lad was too good and he was beat

Exactly. Some of these comments are frankly pathetic. Wanting to see a man seriously injured just to show some 'heart'. I always thought this was a proper boxing forum for people who understand the sport and respect the fighters, but seems I was wrong

Ned, Boxerbeetle some of us are on the same wavelength but some people just find it hard to accept, bloodthirsty some of them. In my experience of actually talking about boxing nowadays it seems that people just want to see knockouts and blood letting, not just on forums but in the street, pub and workplace. MMA is partly to blame in my opinion as lots of younger boxing fans are used to watching that too but I find that they can't seem to appreciate a good boxing contest unless there is a violent conclusion, you can't be beaten unless you are knocked unconscious or are bleeding profusely.

Maybe I'm just getting too old for all this . . . . .

Thing is with MMA the fighters submit, it doesn't hurt their standing so I don't get why it should in boxing, if a fighter knows he can't win, then what's the point in carrying on.

banjo wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:
Exactly. Some of these comments are frankly pathetic. Wanting to see a man seriously injured just to show some 'heart'. I always thought this was a proper boxing forum for people who understand the sport and respect the fighters, but seems I was wrong

Ned, Boxerbeetle some of us are on the same wavelength but some people just find it hard to accept, bloodthirsty some of them. In my experience of actually talking about boxing nowadays it seems that people just want to see knockouts and blood letting, not just on forums but in the street, pub and workplace. MMA is partly to blame in my opinion as lots of younger boxing fans are used to watching that too but I find that they can't seem to appreciate a good boxing contest unless there is a violent conclusion, you can't be beaten unless you are knocked unconscious or are bleeding profusely.

Maybe I'm just getting too old for all this . . . . .

Thing is with MMA the fighters submit, it doesn't hurt their standing so I don't get why it should in boxing, if a fighter knows he can't win, then what's the point in carrying on.

They're usually about their arm snapped at the time!

Finn wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Crease wrote: Carl Froch? Rocky Marciano? Hasim Rahman?

Exactly. Out of the thousands of fights each year, there's a relative handful in history where it's actually happened.

It happened in the fight before the main event did it not? Groves was getting battered.

You guys must be hardcore brook fans or something, its common place for fighter to carry on with injuries and common place for fighters to turn a fight they were behind on.

What do you guys actually want to happen in boxing if a fighter is behind? should they just take knees from now on and bow themselves out of world title fights?

We arent talking about a fight where a fighter needs to save himself for another day or a low paid small hall fight, we are talking about Kel Brook fighting to keep his world title and in the end he bottled it. Quite frankly it explained why kel brook has had such a lack lustre career, it was because he doesnt want it enough.

Would any of these fighters have taken a knee in the same situation?:
Froch
DeGale
Groves
Frampton
Burns
Quigg
Crolla
Haye
Joshua
Whyte
Chisora
Fury
Eubank Jr
Coyle
Khan
Hatton
Benn
Eubank snr

I could just carry on naming fighters who wouldnt have bottled it - its rare for a real fighter to take knee to pretend it isnt is just stupid. If Brook was winning that fight he wouldnt have taken a knee regardless of his eye and thats a fact. He took a knee because he was loosing and didnt want it enough to go out on his shield. Just like he didnt want to get in shape enough through the vast amount of his career and why he avoided the big fights and chased khan through most of his career. He fought GGG with the mindset that they would "give it a go" but if he lost it didnt matter because he still didnt lose the welterweight title, and he only fought Spence because he had to.

He quit thats fine he wanted to save himself for another day but i have no interest in watching him again as a ppv fighter.

You don't have a clue.

mickey1975 wrote:They're usually about their arm snapped at the time!

Exactly, nobody then criticises them for not fighting beyond the point of serious injury!

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Finn wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:
Exactly. Out of the thousands of fights each year, there's a relative handful in history where it's actually happened.

It happened in the fight before the main event did it not? Groves was getting battered.

You guys must be hardcore brook fans or something, its common place for fighter to carry on with injuries and common place for fighters to turn a fight they were behind on.

What do you guys actually want to happen in boxing if a fighter is behind? should they just take knees from now on and bow themselves out of world title fights?

We arent talking about a fight where a fighter needs to save himself for another day or a low paid small hall fight, we are talking about Kel Brook fighting to keep his world title and in the end he bottled it. Quite frankly it explained why kel brook has had such a lack lustre career, it was because he doesnt want it enough.

Would any of these fighters have taken a knee in the same situation?:
Froch
DeGale
Groves
Frampton
Burns
Quigg
Crolla
Haye
Joshua
Whyte
Chisora
Fury
Eubank Jr
Coyle
Khan
Hatton
Benn
Eubank snr

I could just carry on naming fighters who wouldnt have bottled it - its rare for a real fighter to take knee to pretend it isnt is just stupid. If Brook was winning that fight he wouldnt have taken a knee regardless of his eye and thats a fact. He took a knee because he was loosing and didnt want it enough to go out on his shield. Just like he didnt want to get in shape enough through the vast amount of his career and why he avoided the big fights and chased khan through most of his career. He fought GGG with the mindset that they would "give it a go" but if he lost it didnt matter because he still didnt lose the welterweight title, and he only fought Spence because he had to.

He quit thats fine he wanted to save himself for another day but i have no interest in watching him again as a ppv fighter.

You don't have a clue.

Oh really so why don't you name some fighters who have pulled themselves out of a fight?

My brother and I watched the fight in a bar without the commentary and we were really disappointed with the way it ended. Maybe its time for Brook to retire - he clearly feels its too risky for him now.

Regardless of whether i have boxed or not and whether i am right or wrong or completely tasteless, as a paying customer i expected Brook to battle through especially with so much at stake and given his own pre-fight hype. I fully appreciate however that it isnt an easy or logical thing to fight on when injured. Brook chose not to and he will now live with the consequences good and bad.

You expect Brook to fight on at the risk of his own sight?

Honestly? Yes. The risk of injury was there before he signed for the fight. There is a history of fighters fighting on with eye damage. Do you remember eubank senior v Thompson? Eubank had one eye for a large part of that fight and no doubt double vision before his eye closed shut. He chose to fight on under huge pressure. Brook wasnt under huge violent pressure.

Easy for me to expect when im not the one at risk. But then im not a fighter and dont go around hyping myself up as a fighting and wrecking machine, nor i am charging people to watch me nor am i the one receieving a 7 figure fight purse.