Talent...a myth?

[greg]

Enjoyment is also a huge factor, you retain much more information.

Sam, I'm not a teenager, I know that... I just gave you an example based on my own life experience..

I understand that, my point is that is it a possibility that other fellow students practicing the same amount as you, liked to play more which in turn makes them think about playing when there in bed before they go to sleep. All of this in my eyes is a form of practice. I am now a singer, even when I'm not performing I will think about certain songs and come up with new things to try like riffs etc, all of this improves me

I'm afraid we might be talking past one another...I never denied the importance of practice and commitment..my whole point being very simple: you have no talent, the chances are slim you'll become top musician, composer, mathematician, painter, chess player, etc..there MIGHT be some exceptions to this rule but that's what they are - exceptions..

[samdance]

There has to be a balanced approach. No one person can be anything they want to be, but no one can accomplish anything without serious effort. I don't see a contradiction there.

I understand what you're saying a 5ft man is not going to play in the NBA.
However, "The greatest danger for all of us is not that our aim is to high and we miss, but that It is too low and we reach it" Michelangelo

Interesting quote. Everyone misses sometimes and that's ok. It's how we react to failure. I don't think there's anything wrong with making goals that we can accomplish as that builds confidence. My philosophy is to disregard the extremes, and be honest, moderately goal oriented, and humble regarding with yourself.

Its a nice philosophy but I would bet that it is not shared by anyone who's at the top of their field

[samdance]

Sam, I'm not a teenager, I know that... I just gave you an example based on my own life experience..

I understand that, my point is that is it a possibility that other fellow students practicing the same amount as you, liked to play more which in turn makes them think about playing when there in bed before they go to sleep. All of this in my eyes is a form of practice. I am now a singer, even when I'm not performing I will think about certain songs and come up with new things to try like riffs etc, all of this improves me

I'm afraid we might be talking past one another...I never denied the importance of practice and commitment..my whole point being very simple: you have no talent, the chances are slim you'll become top musician, composer, mathematician, painter, chess player, etc..there MIGHT be some exceptions to this rule but that's what they are - exceptions..

You could well certainly be correct, the fact I don't think you are could possibly be my own naivety or optimism.
This is not something that I truly believe in beyond doubt, it's just my logic and in small part hopefulness does

[Tony1244]

I understand what you're saying a 5ft man is not going to play in the NBA.
However, "The greatest danger for all of us is not that our aim is to high and we miss, but that It is too low and we reach it" Michelangelo

Interesting quote. Everyone misses sometimes and that's ok. It's how we react to failure. I don't think there's anything wrong with making goals that we can accomplish as that builds confidence. My philosophy is to disregard the extremes, and be honest, moderately goal oriented, and humble regarding with yourself.

Its a nice philosophy but I would bet that it is not shared by anyone who's at the top of their field

I think a lot of people sacrifice happiness and satisfaction to try to make a lot of money or be at the top of their field to impress other people, not realizing other people aren't thinking about them, they're thinking about themselves.

[samdance]

Interesting quote. Everyone misses sometimes and that's ok. It's how we react to failure. I don't think there's anything wrong with making goals that we can accomplish as that builds confidence. My philosophy is to disregard the extremes, and be honest, moderately goal oriented, and humble regarding with yourself.

Its a nice philosophy but I would bet that it is not shared by anyone who's at the top of their field

I think a lot of people sacrifice happiness and satisfaction to try to make a lot of money or be at the top of their field to impress other people, not realizing other people aren't thinking about them, they're thinking about themselves.

That's true to an extent but I don't believe roger federer worked as hard as he did to impress people, his motivation was most likely to become the worlds best tennis player, a goal that was very unrealistic at an early age

[Tony1244]

Its a nice philosophy but I would bet that it is not shared by anyone who's at the top of their field

I think a lot of people sacrifice happiness and satisfaction to try to make a lot of money or be at the top of their field to impress other people, not realizing other people aren't thinking about them, they're thinking about themselves.

That's true to an extent but I don't believe roger federer worked as hard as he did to impress people, his motivation was most likely to become the worlds best tennis player, a goal that was very unrealistic at an early age

If you're a top 20 tennis player, of course you should give it your all to be #1. There's no reason not to. Boxing has an opposing argument here; as if Jerry Quarry had tried less hard he may be doing American Express commercials now.

But perhaps you misunderstood my focus on moderation. If your playing Wimbledon or on American Idol give it 110%, that's a duh.

If you're passionate about something jump in all the way. I was talking about the masses who focus too much effort on impressing others.

Federer goal of course was "unrealistic at an early age," as is the case with every 10 or 15 year old regardless of their field. But I'm sure it was evident to all that he had an innate TALENT[/b] for tennis soon after he held his first racquet.

[gp.]

No, I wouldn't be slash if I had a spare 10.000 hours. That's delusional.

I'm not saying you would be slash, I'm saying you would be exceptional. It's a gutless way of thinking, to believe that you don't have it in you to be great so you just give up.
Believe me when slash first picked up a guitar, he was terrible too

Gutless? LOL, eat a dick.

Considering he just claimed that he was an elite level table tennis player but couldn't be arsed to do the necessary training, it seems a bit hypocritical of him to bitch at other people for not practicing things they never had any ability in.

[gp.]

Its a nice philosophy but I would bet that it is not shared by anyone who's at the top of their field

I think a lot of people sacrifice happiness and satisfaction to try to make a lot of money or be at the top of their field to impress other people, not realizing other people aren't thinking about them, they're thinking about themselves.

That's true to an extent but I don't believe roger federer worked as hard as he did to impress people, his motivation was most likely to become the worlds best tennis player, a goal that was very unrealistic at an early age

Hundreds if not thousands of other kids worked just as hard and never became Roger Federer.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'm not saying you would be slash, I'm saying you would be exceptional. It's a gutless way of thinking, to believe that you don't have it in you to be great so you just give up.
Believe me when slash first picked up a guitar, he was terrible too

Gutless? LOL, eat a dick.

Considering he just claimed that he was an elite level table tennis player but couldn't be arsed to do the necessary training, it seems a bit hypocritical of him to bitch at other people for not practicing things they never had any ability in.

No doubt about it, nice new addition to my ignore list.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think a lot of people sacrifice happiness and satisfaction to try to make a lot of money or be at the top of their field to impress other people, not realizing other people aren't thinking about them, they're thinking about themselves.

That's true to an extent but I don't believe roger federer worked as hard as he did to impress people, his motivation was most likely to become the worlds best tennis player, a goal that was very unrealistic at an early age

Hundreds if not thousands of other kids worked just as hard and never became Roger Federer.

Dude, probably hundreds of thousands.

[samdance]

I'm not saying you would be slash, I'm saying you would be exceptional. It's a gutless way of thinking, to believe that you don't have it in you to be great so you just give up.
Believe me when slash first picked up a guitar, he was terrible too

Gutless? LOL, eat a dick.

Considering he just claimed that he was an elite level table tennis player but couldn't be arsed to do the necessary training, it seems a bit hypocritical of him to bitch at other people for not practicing things they never had any ability in.

Haha I did guess that you haven't changed from the age of 15 to now

[samdance]

That's true to an extent but I don't believe roger federer worked as hard as he did to impress people, his motivation was most likely to become the worlds best tennis player, a goal that was very unrealistic at an early age

Hundreds if not thousands of other kids worked just as hard and never became Roger Federer.

Dude, probably hundreds of thousands.

Based on what you halfwit, what you probably think. I'm so glad that this forum has some that can partake in an intelligent discussion, but it is frustrating when you have people like you who clearly have no ability to listen and ponder other theories

[Kalan]

Everyone doesn't have an aptitude for everything. I used to be a pretty good golfer, 5 handicap. Never practiced. I recently went home for a trip and 3 of my friends who play weekly in a summer league asked me to play with them. The first tee was the first time I'd swing a club in 10 years, shot a 92 and smoked them all. If you suck at something, like me playing guitar, no amount of practice can overcome your suckness.

What a sad way to think, I guarantee that after 10 000 hours of purposeful practice on the guitar, you would be incredible

No, I wouldn't be slash if I had a spare 10.000 hours. That's delusional.

More than anything else ... If you don't have natural talent for something you're NOT going to enjoy doing it... Therefore putting in 10,000 hours is going be pure drudgery like chain gang workers of the 19th Century -- who spent all day, every day, on the hard rock pile, making big one into little ones... They weren't too happy about it -- but every 5 years they racked up another 10,000 hours of swinging the sledge.. They wouldn't be much better after 20 years then after 6 months.. and probably worse -- because they'd be more broken down physically from all the beatings, whippings, and thumb screws.

If you spend 10,000 hours singing love ballads and you have a terrible voice??? ... You'll just make yourself miserable for 10,000 hours -- and anybody within hearing range.. If a frog like BuzzBox spent 10,000 hours playing basketball -- he still wouldn't be drafted by the NBA.

[samdance]

What a sad way to think, I guarantee that after 10 000 hours of purposeful practice on the guitar, you would be incredible

No, I wouldn't be slash if I had a spare 10.000 hours. That's delusional.

More than anything else ... If you don't have natural talent for something you're NOT going to enjoy doing it... Therefore putting in 10,000 hours is going be pure drudgery like chain gang workers of the 19th Century -- who spent all day, every day, on the hard rock pile, making big one into little ones... They weren't too happy about it -- but every 5 years they racked up another 10,000 hours of swinging the sledge.. They wouldn't be much better after 20 years then after 6 months.. and probably worse -- because they'd be more broken down physically from all the beatings, whippings, and thumb screws.

If you spend 10,000 hours singing love ballads and you have a terrible voice??? ... You'll just make yourself miserable for 10,000 hours -- and anybody within hearing range.. If a frog like BuzzBox spent 10,000 hours playing basketball -- he still wouldn't be drafted by the NBA.

You are correct, the practice has to be purposeful

[gp.]

Gutless? LOL, eat a dick.

Considering he just claimed that he was an elite level table tennis player but couldn't be arsed to do the necessary training, it seems a bit hypocritical of him to bitch at other people for not practicing things they never had any ability in.

Haha I did guess that you haven't changed from the age of 15 to now

So what have you done since? What are you practicing now in order to become the best in the world at? Or is your philosophy less to actually do anything, and more to just pay lip service to a "theory" that not even the person you claim to have got it from believes?

[ValMar]

It might be that all of us are living in Matrix-style simulation.

[RScarf1]

Everybody needs to practice to get better at something. People that go on America's Got Talent practiced a lot just to get on the show, but Simon Cowell does not like everyone's performance. We are all born with different abilities. That is why there are better singers than others. I think that the way to be successful in life is to find out what you are naturally good at and then do it repeatedly to make yourself better. The boxers that lose as much as they win will never be world champions. If they can't do anything else for a living, then they will have to be a journeyman. It doesn't mean they don't train hard, but they don't have enough talent to win consistently.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Considering he just claimed that he was an elite level table tennis player but couldn't be arsed to do the necessary training, it seems a bit hypocritical of him to bitch at other people for not practicing things they never had any ability in.

Haha I did guess that you haven't changed from the age of 15 to now

So what have you done since? What are you practicing now in order to become the best in the world at? Or is your philosophy less to actually do anything, and more to just pay lip service to a "theory" that not even the person you claim to have got it from believes?

I'm sure it's something different every week. Knowing you can be incredible at every possible thing in the world makes for tough decisions.

[Tomasino]

Girls, football, singing and an arrogance that I no longer needed to practice as much

So were you picked out for high-level training programmes and turned them down? Or didn't the people running them think you had the ability?

I was placed into an elite squad of players and we had to fill out food diaries and practice 6 hours a day and it made me fall out of love with it and pushed me towards other things. You can be given all sorts of opportunities for high level practice but you have to sacrifice social outings and other things, and as a teenager I wasn't willing to do that

That's the real difference between you and someone successful. It's a talent to be able to sacrifice and it's a talent to be able to see the results of the sacrifice before they happen. I gave up training due to girls, drink, drugs and fighting. That instantly marked me out as someone without the talent to go all the way in the sport that I excelled in. Those things were the easy way out. The successful fighters that I know, tried to tell me I was daft, lazy and wasting my talent. I thought I'd just pick up where I left off after having some fun. It never happened. I didn't have it in me.

[Tomasino]

Hundreds if not thousands of other kids worked just as hard and never became Roger Federer.

Dude, probably hundreds of thousands.

Based on what you halfwit, what you probably think. I'm so glad that this forum has some that can partake in an intelligent discussion, but it is frustrating when you have people like you who clearly have no ability to listen and ponder other theories

Why do you feel the need to ram a theory, that you've badly misunderstood, down people's throats? You look utterly imbecilic on this thread.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Dude, probably hundreds of thousands.

Based on what you halfwit, what you probably think. I'm so glad that this forum has some that can partake in an intelligent discussion, but it is frustrating when you have people like you who clearly have no ability to listen and ponder other theories

Why do you feel the need to ram a theory, that you've badly misunderstood, down people's throats? You look utterly imbecilic on this thread.

As I said, he's practiced long and hard to be one of the world's preeminent cocks. Mission accomplished.

[samdance]

Haha I did guess that you haven't changed from the age of 15 to now

So what have you done since? What are you practicing now in order to become the best in the world at? Or is your philosophy less to actually do anything, and more to just pay lip service to a "theory" that not even the person you claim to have got it from believes?

I'm sure it's something different every week. Knowing you can be incredible at every possible thing in the world makes for tough decisions.

I live in a nice hot country, start work at 9.30pm and finish at 10.30pm, I would say I'm doing ok

[samdance]

So Phil Neville is as naturally talented as Paul Gascoigne was....but Gazza just worked harder so was a better player.

Really?

Phil Neville was world class, and don't be fooled into thinking gazza didn't work hard, he has an extremely addictive personality

[samdance]

Dude, probably hundreds of thousands.

Based on what you halfwit, what you probably think. I'm so glad that this forum has some that can partake in an intelligent discussion, but it is frustrating when you have people like you who clearly have no ability to listen and ponder other theories

Why do you feel the need to ram a theory, that you've badly misunderstood, down people's throats? You look utterly imbecilic on this thread.

Ram down your throats? I think you badly misunderstood the point of discussing a subject in a forum. Don't fear keep practicing and working on your intelligence

[samdance]

It might be that all of us are living in Matrix-style simulation.

Haha and Jip is the one