BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Crazy thing is if things fall right Wlad won't be a first ballot HOF fighter.

crusader wrote:Why not? Pushed out by others who are eligible the first time?

Covfefe wrote:

Kalan wrote:Boxrec is a lot closer with their # 6 ATG ranking for Wladimir... He's really number 3 behind Joshua and Vitali if you want to be totally honest about it.

Wlad had a somewhat wide and klunky stance and faulty footwork when he was KOing guys like Barrett, Jefferson, Mercer, McCline, and in the 1st Byrd fight.. His defense had major holes in it al a Foreman, Ali, and Louis.. But how many ATG's can you see beating a prime Wladimir after he'd been with Steward for 4 or 5 years ironing his flaws out and building on his strengths? His stance, footwork, timing, jab, and defense have been superb for the last 10 years..

I have to say, I don't think Jonathan Banks was much of a head coach to replace Emmanuel Steward... Wlad suffered some regression in the last 4 years under Banks.. And I don't think he ever beats his brother or Joshua, but I don't see anyone else beating him.

What about those who actually beat him? Like Purity, Sanders, Fury and Brewster?

Kalan wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Kalan wrote:Boxrec is a lot closer with their # 6 ATG ranking for Wladimir... He's really number 3 behind Joshua and Vitali if you want to be totally honest about it.

Wlad had a somewhat wide and klunky stance and faulty footwork when he was KOing guys like Barrett, Jefferson, Mercer, McCline, and in the 1st Byrd fight.. His defense had major holes in it al a Foreman, Ali, and Louis.. But how many ATG's can you see beating a prime Wladimir after he'd been with Steward for 4 or 5 years ironing his flaws out and building on his strengths? His stance, footwork, timing, jab, and defense have been superb for the last 10 years..

I have to say, I don't think Jonathan Banks was much of a head coach to replace Emmanuel Steward... Wlad suffered some regression in the last 4 years under Banks.. And I don't think he ever beats his brother or Joshua, but I don't see anyone else beating him.

What about those who actually beat him? Like Purity, Sanders, Fury and Brewster?

So he only lost to Fury because Steward had died?
Wlad would destroy them once he started learning his stuff from Steward -- as easily as he made Brewster quit.

crusader wrote:Brewster took a frightful pounding in the first fight and was clearly overmatched offensively when Wlad had energy. He had more wear on his body for the rematch, but I think that's pretty much how things would've gone if Wlad had decided to box cautiously the first time. The fights where Wlad's stamina cost him are the ones that most clearly would've been different with his later career approach...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Crazy thing is if things fall right Wlad won't be a first ballot HOF fighter.

pound per pound wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Crazy thing is if things fall right Wlad won't be a first ballot HOF fighter.

Well, he's a heavyweight. Let's be honest that helps.

If he was a bantamweight, I still think he made it due to a number of years he was the champion, but he might not make it on his first try.

Tony1244 wrote:

x2x wrote:THE greatest heavyweight ever, except for his brother Vitali who was even better. They totally dominated the heavyweight division at a time when it was far bigger and stronger and international in scope that it had ever been before. No one has dominated a sport like they did since the great Babe Ruth ruled baseball in the 1920's and 30'.

Ali and Louis dominated the HW as well. Louis had the most title defenses (25) I believe.

x2x wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

x2x wrote:THE greatest heavyweight ever, except for his brother Vitali who was even better. They totally dominated the heavyweight division at a time when it was far bigger and stronger and international in scope that it had ever been before. No one has dominated a sport like they did since the great Babe Ruth ruled baseball in the 1920's and 30'.

Ali and Louis dominated the HW as well. Louis had the most title defenses (25) I believe.

Ali was a comedian not a great boxer.

x2x wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

x2x wrote:THE greatest heavyweight ever, except for his brother Vitali who was even better. They totally dominated the heavyweight division at a time when it was far bigger and stronger and international in scope that it had ever been before. No one has dominated a sport like they did since the great Babe Ruth ruled baseball in the 1920's and 30'.

Ali and Louis dominated the HW as well. Louis had the most title defenses (25) I believe.

Ali was a comedian not a great boxer. Half his fights were fixed one way or another. Now he's supposed to be some kind of deity but in his own time he was widely hated. For instance when they interviewed people who attended his second so called fight with Liston at the arena's exit they couldn't find a single person who thought the fight was legit. he was a comedian not a great fighter, a comedian deeply involved with the Black Moslem prison cult hate group. He himself said that he copied his act from Gorgeous George the flamboyant wrestler who helped popularize television in the early '50's.

Joe Louis was fighting what was called at the time "the bum of the month club". Many were mediocre fighters with numerous previous losses. By contrast the Klitschkos, both of them, fought all comers, the best there was, from all over the world, many previously undefeated.

Neither of the first two ever fought a single Russian or eastern European or Cuban or black African. Often their opponents would weigh only in the 180's. What was called a world championship then was really just a US championship.

That's why I said the Klitschkos were THE greatest heavyweight champions ever.

Tony1244 wrote:

x2x wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:
Ali and Louis dominated the HW as well. Louis had the most title defenses (25) I believe.

Ali was a comedian not a great boxer. Half his fights were fixed one way or another. Now he's supposed to be some kind of deity but in his own time he was widely hated. For instance when they interviewed people who attended his second so called fight with Liston at the arena's exit they couldn't find a single person who thought the fight was legit. he was a comedian not a great fighter, a comedian deeply involved with the Black Moslem prison cult hate group. He himself said that he copied his act from Gorgeous George the flamboyant wrestler who helped popularize television in the early '50's.

Joe Louis was fighting what was called at the time "the bum of the month club". Many were mediocre fighters with numerous previous losses. By contrast the Klitschkos, both of them, fought all comers, the best there was, from all over the world, many previously undefeated.

Neither of the first two ever fought a single Russian or eastern European or Cuban or black African. Often their opponents would weigh only in the 180's. What was called a world championship then was really just a US championship.

That's why I said the Klitschkos were THE greatest heavyweight champions ever.

I think you're a much better comedian.

x2x wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

x2x wrote:





Ali was a comedian not a great boxer. Half his fights were fixed one way or another. Now he's supposed to be some kind of deity but in his own time he was widely hated. For instance when they interviewed people who attended his second so called fight with Liston at the arena's exit they couldn't find a single person who thought the fight was legit. he was a comedian not a great fighter, a comedian deeply involved with the Black Moslem prison cult hate group. He himself said that he copied his act from Gorgeous George the flamboyant wrestler who helped popularize television in the early '50's.

Joe Louis was fighting what was called at the time "the bum of the month club". Many were mediocre fighters with numerous previous losses. By contrast the Klitschkos, both of them, fought all comers, the best there was, from all over the world, many previously undefeated.

Neither of the first two ever fought a single Russian or eastern European or Cuban or black African. Often their opponents would weigh only in the 180's. What was called a world championship then was really just a US championship.

That's why I said the Klitschkos were THE greatest heavyweight champions ever.

I think you're a much better comedian.

Why thank you, but Ali himself said that he copied his act from the comedian wrestler Georgeous George, but if you were paying attention instead of just planning something stupid to post in your so called response you would have heard that the first time.

x2x wrote:From Wikipedia:

"Muhammad Ali and James Brown acknowledged that their own approach to flamboyant self-promotion was influenced by [Gorgeous] George. A 19-year-old Ali met a 46-year-old George at a Las Vegas radio station. During George's radio interview, the wrestler's promo caught the attention of the future heavyweight champion. If George lost to Classy Freddie Blassie, George exclaimed, "I'll crawl across the ring and cut my hair off! But that's not gonna happen because I'm the greatest wrestler in the world!" Ali, who later echoed that very promo when taunting opponent Sonny Liston, recalled, "I saw 15,000 people comin' to see this man get beat. And his talking did it. I said, 'This is a gooood idea!'" In the locker room afterward, the seasoned wrestler gave the future legend some invaluable advice: "A lot of people will pay to see someone shut your mouth. So keep on bragging, keep on sassing and always be outrageous."