BoxRec

mimmy123 wrote:Just because Rio is 38 you cannot deny him a licence if he passes all tests that are a required element by the BBBoC. Even if Rio is only having 1 fight or going on to make this a career he has the right to at least attempt the pro ranks.

Nope.
One would expect a moderator on a boxing forum to have more of a grasp of the basics.
Rio Ferdinand nor anybody else has 'the right' to a BBBoC license. Being a legit professional boxer is a privilege not a right.

leejonesjnr wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:Just because Rio is 38 you cannot deny him a licence if he passes all tests that are a required element by the BBBoC. Even if Rio is only having 1 fight or going on to make this a career he has the right to at least attempt the pro ranks.

Nope.
One would expect a moderator on a boxing forum to have more of a grasp of the basics.
Rio Ferdinand nor anybody else has 'the right' to a BBBoC license. Being a legit professional boxer is a privilege not a right.

Just because im a moderator on a boxing forum does not mean im not entitled to an opinion that may not be the same as others.

While Rio Ferdinand has had no boxing experience at any level nor had Freddie Flintoff. Freddie Filintoff went through the BBBoC's mandatory tests and medicals and was licensed because they felt he was fit and healthy to do so. If anything went wrong with the fight Flintoff took the BBBoC would have been ridiculed and possibly an enquiry would have followed. i'm sure the BBBoC were aware who he was going to fight prior and allowed the fight to happen.

You can't have 1 rule for 1 and one for another. I would wager Rio Ferdinand is fitter than Flintoff and quite a decent amount of kids on the circuit today.

Regardless if im a mod or not I am entitled to my thoughts and opinions. Ferninand, if fit and healthy and passes all tests and medicals should be allowed to do as he pleases. Otherwise make a ruling that past a certain age a applicant cannot apply to be licenced, there is no current ruling so if he passes, he passes.

mimmy123 wrote:

leejonesjnr wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:Just because Rio is 38 you cannot deny him a licence if he passes all tests that are a required element by the BBBoC. Even if Rio is only having 1 fight or going on to make this a career he has the right to at least attempt the pro ranks.

Nope.
One would expect a moderator on a boxing forum to have more of a grasp of the basics.
Rio Ferdinand nor anybody else has 'the right' to a BBBoC license. Being a legit professional boxer is a privilege not a right.

Just because im a moderator on a boxing forum does not mean im not entitled to an opinion that may not be the same as others.

While Rio Ferdinand has had no boxing experience at any level nor had Freddie Flintoff. Freddie Filintoff went through the BBBoC's mandatory tests and medicals and was licensed because they felt he was fit and healthy to do so. If anything went wrong with the fight Flintoff took the BBBoC would have been ridiculed and possibly an enquiry would have followed. i'm sure the BBBoC were aware who he was going to fight prior and allowed the fight to happen.

You can't have 1 rule for 1 and one for another. I would wager Rio Ferdinand is fitter than Flintoff and quite a decent amount of kids on the circuit today.

Regardless if im a mod or not I am entitled to my thoughts and opinions. Ferninand, if fit and healthy and passes all tests and medicals should be allowed to do as he pleases. Otherwise make a ruling that past a certain age a applicant cannot apply to be licenced, there is no current ruling so if he passes, he passes.

It. Is. Not. A. Right. To. Be. A. Professional. Boxer.

It's not a matter of opinion.

No, it isn't a right, but there is a specified criteria for a candidate to meet. If the candidate meets that (and incidentally I have no idea whether this candidate will, nor do I have any personal interest in seeing him box), it would be legally foolhardy to then refuse to licence.

Loynesy wrote:No, it isn't a right, but there is a specified criteria for a candidate to meet. If the candidate meets that (and incidentally I have no idea whether this candidate will, nor do I have any personal interest in seeing him box), it would be legally foolhardy to then refuse to licence.

The board do it all the time to experienced boxers. Lads without the finance to sue them!

leejonesjnr wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:

leejonesjnr wrote:
Nope.
One would expect a moderator on a boxing forum to have more of a grasp of the basics.
Rio Ferdinand nor anybody else has 'the right' to a BBBoC license. Being a legit professional boxer is a privilege not a right.

Just because im a moderator on a boxing forum does not mean im not entitled to an opinion that may not be the same as others.

While Rio Ferdinand has had no boxing experience at any level nor had Freddie Flintoff. Freddie Filintoff went through the BBBoC's mandatory tests and medicals and was licensed because they felt he was fit and healthy to do so. If anything went wrong with the fight Flintoff took the BBBoC would have been ridiculed and possibly an enquiry would have followed. i'm sure the BBBoC were aware who he was going to fight prior and allowed the fight to happen.

You can't have 1 rule for 1 and one for another. I would wager Rio Ferdinand is fitter than Flintoff and quite a decent amount of kids on the circuit today.

Regardless if im a mod or not I am entitled to my thoughts and opinions. Ferninand, if fit and healthy and passes all tests and medicals should be allowed to do as he pleases. Otherwise make a ruling that past a certain age a applicant cannot apply to be licenced, there is no current ruling so if he passes, he passes.

It. Is. Not. A. Right. To. Be. A. Professional. Boxer.

It's not a matter of opinion.

You go around and tell every man over 35 his life is over. 'Nothing is over, you just don't turn it off'!

Not read the whole thread but Robert Smith said on Five Live the other day that Flintoff was declined a licence when he first applied.

Surely if Ferdinand is fit enough, healthy enough and demonstrates sufficient ability then he should be allowed a licence? I know it isn't a right but what are the grounds for refusal if he passes the aforementioned checks?

mickey1975 wrote:

Loynesy wrote:No, it isn't a right, but there is a specified criteria for a candidate to meet. If the candidate meets that (and incidentally I have no idea whether this candidate will, nor do I have any personal interest in seeing him box), it would be legally foolhardy to then refuse to licence.

The board do it all the time to experienced boxers. Lads without the finance to sue them!

Mickey - they need a decent lawyer to act for them pro bono, if there are any really outlier cases, let me know.

dirk2686 wrote:Not read the whole thread but Robert Smith said on Five Live the other day that Flintoff was declined a licence when he first applied.

Surely if Ferdinand is fit enough, healthy enough and demonstrates sufficient ability then he should be allowed a licence? I know it isn't a right but what are the grounds for refusal if he passes the aforementioned checks?

You are correct. Flintoff didnt pass the sparring test I believe on the first occasion that was the impression on the tv programmse.

Rio Ferdinand is scheduled on allegedly tonight at 7pm might be worth watching for reasons for his motivation and more info on the documentary.

mickey1975 wrote: No, we have four, plus two unlicensed and pros. Harry's not from York, although nearby, and isn't very popular on the local scene to say the least... He's extremely tough, though, and if he just admitted his level would get a lot of respect. He is still genuinely convinced he'll win the British! We have loads of good juniors, some exceptional. York ABC is still the number one but Henry's is catching up! I'm at Jorvik and have one kid capable of anything but just won't train. It's so frustrating. Kids... I know a kid from Vulcan in Hull, beat Hope Price, the European junior champion and no 4 in the world, then went out the next week and blew his fingers off with a firework!

I see what you mean, I knew about York ABC and heard good things about Henry Wharton's gym and what he's doing there so I'm properly made up that the boxing scene is starting to look so good lately.
Sorry to hear about Harry though, genuinely thought he gave a good account of himself against Eubanks and in his earlier fights, was genuinely sorry to see him go on a bit of a losing streak over the past few years, like you say, hopefully he finds his level and builds himself back some respect.

That's devastating to hear that a young kid who had that sort of potential did something so daft and ruined his chances like that. Still that's kids for you, you can tell them all you can but if it doesn't go through then it's a sad day to say the least. Hopefully a few of the good one's you've seen shape up and see that they can really make something of themselves if they put in the effort.

I still think we should petition the board

Freddie had McGuigan training him and still looked awful. Does Rio have any boxing experience at all?

I doubt it

No.

Just my opinion but he shouldn't get a license no way at all I was in the gym 8/9 year before I got a license - people will watch that fight and think that is the standard of ppl given a pro license by the board it's a joke

It will be a proper hand bag fight - punches getting thrown like slaps and chins high in the air (like between two novices in there first ama fight)

Is this the standard the ppl from the board want to see going out on national/international tv

REEVE wrote:Just my opinion but he shouldn't get a license no way at all I was in the gym 8/9 year before I got a license - people will watch that fight and think that is the standard of ppl given a pro license by the board it's a joke

It will be a proper hand bag fight - punches getting thrown like slaps and chins high in the air (like between two novices in there first ama fight)

Is this the standard the ppl from the board want to see going out on national/international tv

I agree. And there's an easy solution:

The BBBoC apply a 'scout approval' to their licence requirements. That means if an athlete wants a licence they must invite a BBBoC approved scout to attend 1 of their amateur bouts. If the scout feels the applicant meets minimum skill level requirements he can approve their application.

Imo this would protect the integrity of the sport and prevent these types of Flintoff publicity stunts at the expense of boxing's integrity.

Ricky_ wrote:

REEVE wrote:Just my opinion but he shouldn't get a license no way at all I was in the gym 8/9 year before I got a license - people will watch that fight and think that is the standard of ppl given a pro license by the board it's a joke

It will be a proper hand bag fight - punches getting thrown like slaps and chins high in the air (like between two novices in there first ama fight)

Is this the standard the ppl from the board want to see going out on national/international tv

I agree. And there's an easy solution:

The BBBoC apply a 'scout approval' to their licence requirements. That means if an athlete wants a licence they must invite a BBBoC approved scout to attend 1 of their amateur bouts. If the scout feels the applicant meets minimum skill level requirements he can approve their application.

Imo this would protect the integrity of the sport and prevent these types of Flintoff publicity stunts at the expense of boxing's integrity.

yeah good point mate, imo rio should just have a fight there's no need for it to be pro it could be amature or white collar

The BBBoC need to make a ruling that they will not grant a licence for reality tv purposes. Or make a ruling that no one can apply for a licence to box professionally with the BBBoC over a certain age.

Until rules are written you cannot grant licences for one and not another. I suspect the BBBoC will not do this sort of ruling as they could not afford a court case that would follow. You just can't not allow someone to do something because of the number they are. Its a tricky one but a lawyer would love to earn a few quid in help sue them.

I just don't know if its lawful in legal terms to say no because of their age.

Many get refused on age, non can afford to sue. Rio can afford anything. Loynsey virtually said he's legally entitled.

mimmy123 wrote:The BBBoC need to make a ruling that they will not grant a licence for reality tv purposes. Or make a ruling that no one can apply for a licence to box professionally with the BBBoC over a certain age.

Until rules are written you cannot grant licences for one and not another. I suspect the BBBoC will not do this sort of ruling as they could not afford a court case that would follow. You just can't not allow someone to do something because of the number they are. Its a tricky one but a lawyer would love to earn a few quid in help sue them.

I just don't know if its lawful in legal terms to say no because of their age.

Forget his age, it's not important.

Experience is important.

I don't see how the BBBoC could be sued if they change the rules that licences are only giving to athletes who have demonstrated adequate skill-level in an at least 1 amatuer bout.

All they would have to say to a judge is that the rule is there to protect athletes from getting hurt in a professional ring - would someone like Rio Ferdinand seriously argue in court against such a condition for a licence? Can't see it.

Ricky_ wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:The BBBoC need to make a ruling that they will not grant a licence for reality tv purposes. Or make a ruling that no one can apply for a licence to box professionally with the BBBoC over a certain age.

Until rules are written you cannot grant licences for one and not another. I suspect the BBBoC will not do this sort of ruling as they could not afford a court case that would follow. You just can't not allow someone to do something because of the number they are. Its a tricky one but a lawyer would love to earn a few quid in help sue them.

I just don't know if its lawful in legal terms to say no because of their age.

Forget his age, it's not important.

Experience is important.

I don't see how the BBBoC could be sued if they change the rules that licences are only giving to athletes who have demonstrated adequate skill-level in an at least 1 amatuer bout.

All they would have to say to a judge is that the rule is there to protect athletes from getting hurt in a professional ring - would someone like Rio Ferdinand seriously argue in court against such a condition for a licence? Can't see it.

Why will he be allowed a licence then if others as Mickey says are refused on the age issue? We know rio hasnt got an ounce of boxing experience but will still be allowed to proceed purely on the basis its a reality tv programme.

mimmy123 wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:The BBBoC need to make a ruling that they will not grant a licence for reality tv purposes. Or make a ruling that no one can apply for a licence to box professionally with the BBBoC over a certain age.

Until rules are written you cannot grant licences for one and not another. I suspect the BBBoC will not do this sort of ruling as they could not afford a court case that would follow. You just can't not allow someone to do something because of the number they are. Its a tricky one but a lawyer would love to earn a few quid in help sue them.

I just don't know if its lawful in legal terms to say no because of their age.

Forget his age, it's not important.

Experience is important.

I don't see how the BBBoC could be sued if they change the rules that licences are only giving to athletes who have demonstrated adequate skill-level in an at least 1 amatuer bout.

All they would have to say to a judge is that the rule is there to protect athletes from getting hurt in a professional ring - would someone like Rio Ferdinand seriously argue in court against such a condition for a licence? Can't see it.

Why will he be allowed a licence then if others as Mickey says are refused on the age issue? We know rio hasnt got an ounce of boxing experience but will still be allowed to proceed purely on the basis its a reality tv programme.

Bernard Hopkin's is all the proof anyone needs that an athlete even in their 40's could still compete if they meet other requirements.

The requirements for a licence, imo, should be 1. passing a medical exam, and 2. demonstrating suitable skill level for a professional bout.

Ferdinand could certainly get himself in more than adequate athletic shape, but make him demonstrate ability fitting of a professional ring, by making him fight in the amateurs first.

I suspect having to compete in an amateur fight, with no guarantee of a licence, would be enough to kill this stupid Betfair PR stunt stone-dead.

Ricky_ wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

Forget his age, it's not important.

Experience is important.

I don't see how the BBBoC could be sued if they change the rules that licences are only giving to athletes who have demonstrated adequate skill-level in an at least 1 amatuer bout.

All they would have to say to a judge is that the rule is there to protect athletes from getting hurt in a professional ring - would someone like Rio Ferdinand seriously argue in court against such a condition for a licence? Can't see it.

Why will he be allowed a licence then if others as Mickey says are refused on the age issue? We know rio hasnt got an ounce of boxing experience but will still be allowed to proceed purely on the basis its a reality tv programme.

Bernard Hopkin's is all the proof anyone needs that an athlete even in their 40's could still compete if they meet other requirements.

The requirements for a licence, imo, should be 1. passing a medical exam, and 2. demonstrating suitable skill level for a professional bout.

Ferdinand could certainly get himself in more than adequate athletic shape, but make him demonstrate ability fitting of a professional ring, by making him fight in the amateurs first.

I suspect having to compete in an amateur fight, with no guarantee of a licence, would be enough to kill this stupid Betfair PR stunt stone-dead.

I agree what you are saying. The only reason im for this is because im not a great believer that you should be cast aside purely on age.

Give the guy a chance. He'll be matched appropriately. If he ends up out of his depth, then the ref is going to call it off the minute a few unanswered punches snap his head back. There's no reason to suggest it will do him any more harm than it does to experienced fighters who are over 40 who we see it happen to time and time again.

If he does half as well as Curtis Woodhouse, he'll be able to hold his head high.