AJ vs mandatory POVETKIN next ?

[Badhusker]

Fury is 3 inches taller than Joshua. The height thing is way over-blown as far as an advantage, if you have a ref that is honest. Height isn't the only thing that determines "size". There were many discussions back when Floyd vs Manny BS about how much bigger Floyd was than Manny, when the facts pointed out to the only advantage Floyd had over Manny was height and reach. From the tale of the tape Manny was bigger than Floyd in every other category.

Mike Tyson, being often at least 4-6" shorter than his opponents, found a way to win. There are other examples too that blows the height advantage out of the water.

[Luis Fernando12]

2) Is totally a washed up / shot fighter currently

What exactly makes Povetkin washed up?

Joshua never faced someone with the combined attributes of Povetkin before. Ergo, he never had the chance to do what I predict he would do to Povetkin

What's the point of this comment? Joshua faced much more inferior opposition than Povetkin....

And how is Povetkin a top 3 heavyweight? Based on what? What has he done recently to be a top 3 fighter?

Povetkin has throughout his career maintained a good level of opposition, with a good KO ratio, with only one defeat against the standout No1. There are very few in the division who stand up to his record. Who do you consider the top 3?

Why should Joshua deserve credit for beating an opponent that he has nearly every advantage over? An opponent he could and really should be predicted to squash like a bug / grape / a little insect

Because he's the third highest ranked heavyweight and highly rated by the majority of the governing bodies.

Size, physical strength and punching power are the MOST IMPORTANT attributes in the modern heavyweight division. Which is why in the last 2 decades, every dominant number 1 heavyweight has had those attributes. Nobody shorter than 6 foot 4 inches in the last decade has been a better heavyweight than Povetkin. However, Povetkin himself is inferior to elite SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS like the Klitschkos, Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury. He has practically 0 chance at beating them. Even though he would probably be favored to beat any opponent his own size = greater reason for the existence of another weight division.

Tyson Fury only has one of those attributes (size) and he won quite comfortably against Klitschko. I think you underestimate the importance of skill. Not everyone in the heavyweight division is a knockout artist. Anybody with a basic boxing understanding knows this.

Why is Takam more skilled than Joshua? Because he has better head movement. He moves his head more. He counter punches better. He is faster in terms of overall body movement. He has greater arsenal of defensive moves and etc.

What greater skills did Joshua show against Takam, other than just moving forward and simply overwhelming Takam through imposing his insanely greater physical strength and punching power? The difference in that fight wasn't through skills. It was based on Joshua being able to take Takam's punches (due to being much bigger and stronger) whilst Takam not being able to take Joshua's punches as well (because of Joshua's size and physical strength advantages). Joshua looked slower and more limited than Takam in that fight. Yet, Joshua still beat Takam because of his size, physical strength and punching power. The same was the case when Eddie Chambers and Wladimir Klitschko fought each other.

Takam moves his head more and gets punched more. Where was there any demonstration of Takam counter punching? The state of Takam's face after the fight tells me that his head movement and defensive skill is not very advanced.

In fact I think many would agree here that Joshua's size actually served as a disadvantage than an advantage, as it very much limited his movement and his engine.

Joshua is 250 pounds of almost pure muscles. Whilst Povetkin is barely a 230 pound heavyweight with high quantity of fat and with nowhere near as much muscles as Joshua. Remove the fat, Povetkin would probably be a cruiser weight. So Joshua and Povetkin absolutely aren't the same size and absolutely don't belong in the same weight division or in the ring against each other.

Deontay Wilder was 214 lb in his last fight. So based on your assessment, Joshua and Wilder would never meet?

Meanwhile, a healthy Tyson Fury weighs the same as Joshua in terms of functional body weight. So both Fury and Joshua are absolutely the same size.

They're not the same size (as I stated in the previous post), there's a 4 inch height difference. In regards to weight, against Chisora he was 264 lb and against Abell was 274 lb. That's 32 lb heavier than Joshua was against Parker, whereas there's only a 13 lb between Joshua and Povetkin.

Thanks for your respectful comment. I'll address your points!

What makes povetkin washed up? Maybe because he is nearing age 40 and he is a small, high intensity pressure fighter who has been in many tough fights? Characteristics which aren't suitable for old age for competing at the elite level at one's best. Remind me how many past small heavyweights who were high intensity pressure fighters that have been in many tough fights, weren't washed up by the same age as Povetkin is right now?

Anthony Joshua will be facing an opponent in Alexander Povetkin who is washed up + significantly older + suffered significant damage and mileage from multiple tough fights + significantly smaller in size + is stylistically an aggressive, high intensity pressure fighter + is physically weaker and less powerful compared to Joshua.

Add all of those factors up, how can you not claim this wouldn't be a disgusting, gruesome, dangerous and one of the greatest mismatches that can be made in boxing today, if not in history? When has Joshua ever faced an opponent with such combined disadvantages that Povetkin faces?

What has Povetkin done recently in the last 3 years, that suggests he is a top 3 heavyweight in the current heavyweight scene? What happened in the previous heavyweight landscape isn't very relevant. How has Povetkin proven to be better in the last 3 years than say, Dominic Brezeale, Hughie Fury, Dillian Whyte, Jarrell Miller, Kubrat Pulev or even Andy Ruiz Jr? In fact, I'd go as far as to claim that even Dominic Brezeale would totally wipe the floor with Povetkin and would probably brutally beat him. Mostly because of the extreme size difference!

Official rankings (without justifications and reasoning behind them) are irrelevant. My question is, what has Povetkin done in the last 3 years to be ranked higher than those aforementioned heavyweights?

Tyson Fury is immensely strong physically and does have very high punching power. Skills aren't as relevant in the heavyweight division as they are in lower weight divisions if a SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT has a significant size + physical strength + punching power advantage over small but skilled heavyweights.

The fact that Takam moved his head more and did more things, but still lost against Joshua is a testament to how size advantage negates skill disadvantage. Joshua didn't even have to move his head much. Nor did he have to use any greater number of skills against Takam. All he had to do was impose his insane size, physical strength and punching power advantage and that was enough to beat Takam. If Takam was the same size as Joshua, it would then become an even fight. Joshua didn't show greater skills against Takam. Walking forward whilst throwing basic punches (that his opponent couldn't take due to how much stronger and more powerful he is comparatively) isn't evidence of him being more skilled.

Deontay Wilder was ill when he fought Luis Ortiz. Wilder is someone who has almost no visible body fat and is still capable of weighing above 225 pounds. I think that's very different from an unhealthy 220+ pounder. Functional weight =/= non-functional weight.

The same applies to Tyson Fury, Fury may have the slight height and reach advantage over Joshua, but not size / functional weight advantage. Fury carries a lot of non-functional weight such as fat. Remove them, he weighs pretty much the same as Joshua. This isn't even comparable to the humongous natural and functional size / weight difference between Povetkin and Joshua. Joshua is almost like a different creature / animal compared to the tiny whiny midget Povetkin.

[Rob3_142]

My comments were not designed to be respectful. You're a fücking idiot.

[Luis Fernando12]

^^^

Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Inability to rationally address one's points whilst having to resort to Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Becoming overly emotional and insulting over a discussion about boxers and boxing that doesn't even involve one's own self, exposes one as the real idiot.

I think we all know who exposed themselves as the real / genuine 'idiot' here!

[Rob3_142]

^^^

Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Inability to rationally address one's points whilst having to resort to Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Becoming overly emotional and insulting over a discussion about boxers and boxing that doesn't even involve one's own self, exposes one as the real idiot.

I think we all know who exposed themselves as the real / genuine 'idiot' here!

I'm sure we could take it to a vote with the other posters, you'll be surprised.

[oogiebe]

^^^

Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Inability to rationally address one's points whilst having to resort to Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Becoming overly emotional and insulting over a discussion about boxers and boxing that doesn't even involve one's own self, exposes one as the real idiot.

I think we all know who exposed themselves as the real / genuine 'idiot' here!

I'm sure we could take it to a vote with the other posters, you'll be surprised.

Um...Kalan?

[Rob3_142]

^^^

Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Inability to rationally address one's points whilst having to resort to Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Becoming overly emotional and insulting over a discussion about boxers and boxing that doesn't even involve one's own self, exposes one as the real idiot.

I think we all know who exposed themselves as the real / genuine 'idiot' here!

I'm sure we could take it to a vote with the other posters, you'll be surprised.

Um...Kalan?

[oogiebe]

...tee hee...

[Badhusker]

^^^

Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Inability to rationally address one's points whilst having to resort to Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Becoming overly emotional and insulting over a discussion about boxers and boxing that doesn't even involve one's own self, exposes one as the real idiot.

I think we all know who exposed themselves as the real / genuine 'idiot' here!

I'm sure we could take it to a vote with the other posters, you'll be surprised.

Um...Kalan?

I'd say Kalan, asdfjkl, x2x or EO

[brilo33]

aj just needs to fight this same way as klitschko but put him to bed when he gets his chance, just dont just rush it as the little fella i think could have the power to put aj on his arse

[oogiebe]

aj just needs to fight this same way as klitschko but put him to bed when he gets his chance, just dont just rush it as the little fella i think could have the power to put aj on his arse

If he fights from a distance and keeps Povetkkn at bay, he can get Pedvetkin to lunge more as he gets frustrated...that's when AJ will and can strike.

[greg]

..watching AJ vs Parker one might assume that even if AJ fails to keep Povetkin at bay, the referee might be willing to step in and do the job for him...

[oogiebe]

..watching AJ vs Parker one might assume that even if AJ fails to keep Povetkin at bay, the referee might be willing to step in and do the job for him...

OMG! Let's not even go there! That was preposterous.

[Rob3_142]

..watching AJ vs Parker one might assume that even if AJ fails to keep Povetkin at bay, the referee might be willing to step in and do the job for him...

I'm hopeful that you would consider for a moment that the referee was equally a hindrance to Joshua, as he was Parker.

[greg]

..watching AJ vs Parker one might assume that even if AJ fails to keep Povetkin at bay, the referee might be willing to step in and do the job for him...

I'm hopeful that you would consider for a moment that the referee was equally a hindrance to Joshua, as he was Parker.

..having considered it a bit longer, I still believe that the ONLY way for Parker to be competitive in that bout was to get as close as possible to a lot bigger Joshua..at those rare moments when he actually succeeded in getting there, his efforts were frustrated by the referee..Joshua had OTHER options to win this fight which he in fact demonstrated in a lackluster fashion imo..

[oogiebe]

..watching AJ vs Parker one might assume that even if AJ fails to keep Povetkin at bay, the referee might be willing to step in and do the job for him...

I'm hopeful that you would consider for a moment that the referee was equally a hindrance to Joshua, as he was Parker.

..having considered it a bit longer, I still believe that the ONLY way for Parker to be competitive in that bout was to get as close as possible to a lot bigger Joshua..at those rare moments when he actually succeeded in getting there, his efforts were frustrated by the referee..Joshua had OTHER options to win this fight which he in fact demonstrated in a lackluster fashion imo..

There is absolutely no question on that point. Doesn't mean Parker wins, but it would've been a better fight.

[Rob3_142]

I'm hopeful that you would consider for a moment that the referee was equally a hindrance to Joshua, as he was Parker.

..having considered it a bit longer, I still believe that the ONLY way for Parker to be competitive in that bout was to get as close as possible to a lot bigger Joshua..at those rare moments when he actually succeeded in getting there, his efforts were frustrated by the referee..Joshua had OTHER options to win this fight which he in fact demonstrated in a lackluster fashion imo..

There is absolutely no question on that point. Doesn't mean Parker wins, but it would've been a better fight.

Yes, the referees intervention did hinder Parker's only real route into the fight, but had they both fought on the inside, Parker would have been knocked out (in my opinion). You could then argue that the referee helped Parker lose by UD over losing by KO.

Of course this is all speculative, and I can never prove that Joshua would have got the KO had they been able to fight on the inside, but Joshua is too good of an operator on the inside to ignore.

[Luis Fernando12]

^^^

Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Inability to rationally address one's points whilst having to resort to Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Becoming overly emotional and insulting over a discussion about boxers and boxing that doesn't even involve one's own self, exposes one as the real idiot.

I think we all know who exposed themselves as the real / genuine 'idiot' here!

I'm sure we could take it to a vote with the other posters, you'll be surprised.

Popular notion / belief is a logical fallacy called: "APPEAL TO POPULARITY". And logical fallacies are irrelevant in rational arguments / discussions. And relying on them, exposes one in lacking logical thinking capacity, And lacking logical thinking capacity is a sign of someone being relatively 'idiotic'. Ergo, you've indisputably proven to be one without me having to call you one,

[Rob3_142]

^^^

Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Inability to rationally address one's points whilst having to resort to Ad Hominem attacks exposes you as the real idiot. Becoming overly emotional and insulting over a discussion about boxers and boxing that doesn't even involve one's own self, exposes one as the real idiot.

I think we all know who exposed themselves as the real / genuine 'idiot' here!

I'm sure we could take it to a vote with the other posters, you'll be surprised.

Popular notion / belief is a logical fallacy called: "APPEAL TO POPULARITY". And logical fallacies are irrelevant in rational arguments / discussions. And relying on them, exposes one in lacking logical thinking capacity, And lacking logical thinking capacity is a sign of someone being relatively 'idiotic'. Ergo, you've indisputably proven to be one without me having to call you one,

But your argument is so extreme and fantastic, it goes well beyond logical thinking. I urge you to read back through some of your posts, and tell me that your point of view does not go beyond rational thought?

I get it, bigger guys have an advantage over smaller guys. But so will someone who is faster or more skillful. There are numerous factors to what would determine the outcome of a boxing match. If you dismiss them so readily, you are being unreasonable.

[jvincent]

Im quite sure you all know this whole super heavyweight debate thing is just a very poorly concealed attempt at putting Dominic Brezeale in some kind of elite class? Therefore legitimising the wilder fight. I knew Brezeale was going to get a mention because of the sticking point of height.

[Badhusker]

As far as the OP's question, the answer is no. I predict AJ will fight Miller next in the US, and Wilder later in the year.

[dickbelden]

will the WBA strip AJ of their title if he fights BABY MILLER next ?

[Luis Fernando12]

I'm sure we could take it to a vote with the other posters, you'll be surprised.

Popular notion / belief is a logical fallacy called: "APPEAL TO POPULARITY". And logical fallacies are irrelevant in rational arguments / discussions. And relying on them, exposes one in lacking logical thinking capacity, And lacking logical thinking capacity is a sign of someone being relatively 'idiotic'. Ergo, you've indisputably proven to be one without me having to call you one,

But your argument is so extreme and fantastic, it goes well beyond logical thinking. I urge you to read back through some of your posts, and tell me that your point of view does not go beyond rational thought?

I get it, bigger guys have an advantage over smaller guys. But so will someone who is faster or more skillful. There are numerous factors to what would determine the outcome of a boxing match. If you dismiss them so readily, you are being unreasonable.

If you have a problem with any of my points, feel free to address them or attack them, rather than attacking me at a personal level. I'm totally okay with an open minded discussion and I've rarely, if ever attacked someone at a personal level by using Ad Hominem attacks, only because I disagreed with them.

There is a reason why boxing is divided into weight and gender divisions and nothing else. Not speed divisions and not those 'other factor' divisions. Weight and size isn't just an important factor, but it's the MOST IMPORTANT factor in deciding outcomes of not just boxing bouts, but the bouts of any combat sports. That has been my point all along!

Manny Pacquiao is significantly faster than Anthony Joshua. But I still wouldn't give him much of a chance at beating Joshua. Why? Because of the huge size difference! Speed difference will become totally irrelevant.

Speed advantages and those 'other factors' as advantages matter most when two boxers facing each other are of the same size. However, when there is a significant disparity in size between two boxers, as is the case between Povetkin and Joshua, those other advantages really won't matter much because size would be the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. Which is why this fight is a nonsensical mismatch that people are acting like it's somehow a credible match up when it clearly isn't.

[dickbelden]

AJ is #1 on boxrec---POVETKIN is #3 on boxrec.---great matchup !

[oogiebe]

..having considered it a bit longer, I still believe that the ONLY way for Parker to be competitive in that bout was to get as close as possible to a lot bigger Joshua..at those rare moments when he actually succeeded in getting there, his efforts were frustrated by the referee..Joshua had OTHER options to win this fight which he in fact demonstrated in a lackluster fashion imo..

There is absolutely no question on that point. Doesn't mean Parker wins, but it would've been a better fight.

Yes, the referees intervention did hinder Parker's only real route into the fight, but had they both fought on the inside, Parker would have been knocked out (in my opinion). You could then argue that the referee helped Parker lose by UD over losing by KO.

Of course this is all speculative, and I can never prove that Joshua would have got the KO had they been able to fight on the inside, but Joshua is too good of an operator on the inside to ignore.

Yeah I agree to most of that. Not sure about Joshua being "too good" on the inside holds up. We never saw a really good inside fighter get there! In all fairness...