NONE of Liston's follow up shots landed... Even Howard Cosell said so when he and Goldstein watched the replay... Cosell was a massive Ali fan but remarked on how Liston's reflexes were in tact and none of the follow shots landed... Old-and-Moldie is a blind idiot who makes things up out of thin air... WHAT 5 punches landed for Ali in the follow up???
I couldn't give a fuk about Cosell, or Goldstein or their scabby opinions you blind fool. Go to 2.30 of this clip watch it, then tell us again how Ali missed with every shot he threw, or Liston was trying to make a fight of it,. you pathological lying SCUM.
Of course because you are lying vermin you WON'T do that, but probably someone else will, someone in fact out of the 30 million people worldwide who KNOW about the fight, as opposed to offering a retarded revisionist version of it.
Some free advice.
Instead of trying to deny irrefutable FACTS, stick to your bullshit story about how you told the US Marines Vietnam was immoral YEARS before anyone else did, and got an " honourable " discharge for your pains.
That way everyone KNOWS you're a stupid kunt.
Everyone knows you're a potty mouthed punk with nothing to say.
Ali followed up with 6 punches – none of them making effective contact. The 1st punch was a decoy left hook with a meaningful right thrown behind it. The decoy left hook, meant to distract Liston (he doesn't bite), makes no contact. The right misses over Liston’s deftly ducking head.
The 3rd punch is another decoy left hook which again doesn’t make effective contact – it’s followed by another meaningful right hand – which would have done damage had it landed - but sails harmlessly over Liston’s adroitly ducking head. Ali switches tactics at that point, but still fails to follow up effectively.
Ali changes up with the 5th punch, throwing a hard left hook that sails over Liston’s adeptly ducking head. The 6th punch was an uppercut meant to catch a ducking Liston, but whiffs the dexterously defending Liston very badly.
NONE of Liston's follow up shots landed... Even Howard Cosell said so when he and Goldstein watched the replay... Cosell was a massive Ali fan but remarked on how Liston's reflexes were in tact and none of the follow shots landed... Old-and-Moldie is a blind idiot who makes things up out of thin air... WHAT 5 punches landed for Ali in the follow up???
I couldn't give a fuk about Cosell, or Goldstein or their scabby opinions you blind fool. Go to 2.30 of this clip watch it, then tell us again how Ali missed with every shot he threw, or Liston was trying to make a fight of it,. you pathological lying SCUM.
Of course because you are lying vermin you WON'T do that, but probably someone else will, someone in fact out of the 30 million people worldwide who KNOW about the fight, as opposed to offering a retarded revisionist version of it.
Some free advice.
Instead of trying to deny irrefutable FACTS, stick to your bullshit story about how you told the US Marines Vietnam was immoral YEARS before anyone else did, and got an " honourable " discharge for your pains.
That way everyone KNOWS you're a stupid kunt.
Everyone knows you're a potty mouthed punk with nothing to say.
Ali followed up with 6 punches – none of them making effective contact. The 1st punch was a decoy left hook with a meaningful right thrown behind it. The decoy left hook, meant to distract Liston (he doesn't bite), makes no contact. The right misses over Liston’s deftly ducking head.
The 3rd punch is another decoy left hook which again doesn’t make effective contact – it’s followed by another meaningful right hand – which would have done damage had it landed - but sails harmlessly over Liston’s adroitly ducking head. Ali switches tactics at that point, but still fails to follow up effectively.
Ali changes up with the 5th punch, throwing a hard left hook that sails over Liston’s adeptly ducking head. The 6th punch was an uppercut meant to catch a ducking Liston, but whiffs the dexterously defending Liston very badly.
That’s 0 for 6 in follow up shots.
He didn't say effective. Just that he hit him.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 15:21
by Kalan
So "ineffective" is how we rate landed punches???
What are Boxing's scoring priorities???? .... Number 1 is: Clean Effective Punches landed.
NONE DID.
He said Ali landed 5 punches in his follow up barrage... Bull Crap!!!
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 19:53
by MrGuy
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 15:21
So "ineffective" is how we rate landed punches???
What are Boxing's scoring priorities???? .... Number 1 is: Clean Effective Punches landed.
NONE DID.
He said Ali landed 5 punches in his follow up barrage... Bull Crap!!!
You said he never landed. He obviously did ineffective or not. If he didn't land that many, it was close.
NONE of Liston's follow up shots landed... Even Howard Cosell said so when he and Goldstein watched the replay... Cosell was a massive Ali fan but remarked on how Liston's reflexes were in tact and none of the follow shots landed... Old-and-Moldie is a blind idiot who makes things up out of thin air... WHAT 5 punches landed for Ali in the follow up???
I couldn't give a fuk about Cosell, or Goldstein or their scabby opinions you blind fool. Go to 2.30 of this clip watch it, then tell us again how Ali missed with every shot he threw, or Liston was trying to make a fight of it,. you pathological lying SCUM.
Of course because you are lying vermin you WON'T do that, but probably someone else will, someone in fact out of the 30 million people worldwide who KNOW about the fight, as opposed to offering a retarded revisionist version of it.
Some free advice.
Instead of trying to deny irrefutable FACTS, stick to your bullshit story about how you told the US Marines Vietnam was immoral YEARS before anyone else did, and got an " honourable " discharge for your pains.
That way everyone KNOWS you're a stupid kunt.
Did you put "honourable" in quotes to draw attention to the fact that on your island "u" is in honorable? Because in the good Ol' USA "u" will never be found to have much to do with the word honorable. And that Mr Oldie.....is an American fact. However "u" duz fer shur show up in England and the U.S. (both south and north) in the word humble.......and that is something for you to thoughtfully consider.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 20:23
by oogiebe
Buzz - like poetry!
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 20:45
by APerno
At 5:20 of this video Ali puts down Cleveland William with a right hand, while on his toes, moving backwards. A punch similar to the one that fell Liston. IMO Williams reacts to the punch the way you would have expected Liston to, but didn't. Ali has enough of a punch to put Williams down but not enough to stretch him out, as it supposedly did with Liston.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 21:23
by Kalan
Cleveland Williams was guy who was almost killed by a police officer and lost a great deal of body functioning because of it... He was a physical wreck when he fought Ali... He never beat a good fighter after he was shot... He was done.
The police officer's .357 magnum revolver shot Williams in the intestines, which quite few feet of them had to be removed... Williams underwent four operations in 7 months for colon damage and his right kidney was removed in June 1965. Doctors did not take out a bullet that broke his right hip joint and caused paralysis in his right hip muscle.
Before the Ali fight his surgeon, Dr. Don Quast, said ''It is a miracle that he is not in braces" ... It was an exploitative fight.
Sonny Liston bombed out a peak Williams at the height of his powers in 2 rounds... That was a REAL feat... Comparing a washed up Williams to a peak Liston is like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Marilyn Monroe.
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 15:21
So "ineffective" is how we rate landed punches???
What are Boxing's scoring priorities???? .... Number 1 is: Clean Effective Punches landed.
NONE DID.
He said Ali landed 5 punches in his follow up barrage... Bull Crap!!!
You said he never landed. He obviously did ineffective or not. If he didn't land that many, it was close.
He didn't actually land any that a sharp eyed judge would count as a scoring punch... A video shown from shoulder height on TV a month or so after the fight showed that Ali clearly missed all of his follow up punches... None landed.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 21:41
by BoxBuzz
Kalan........point of order
Go back and look at Cleveland's record after the shot.....(which if you want to be accurate he actually miraculously rehabilitated very successfully.) Now, with that said no one is going to say he got better after that fateful encounter.....but he was not an invalid, and in fact remained very respectable in the wake of that very successful series of medical events. Just like Gronk has done in the wake of his back surgeries. (You noticed Gronk is still catching that ball and moving it down field right?)
You try to turn everything into the lowest common denominator.....you overuse very wide and general assumptions.
You should up your assessments to include a wider variety of subtle nuance.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 21:55
by APerno
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:23
Cleveland Williams was guy who was almost killed by a police officer and lost a great deal of body functioning because of it... He was a physical wreck when he fought Ali... He never beat a good fighter after he was shot... He was done.
The police officer's .357 magnum revolver shot Williams in the intestines, which quite few feet of them had to be removed... Williams underwent four operations in 7 months for colon damage and his right kidney was removed in June 1965. Doctors did not take out a bullet that broke his right hip joint and caused paralysis in his right hip muscle.
Before the Ali fight his surgeon, Dr. Don Quast, said ''It is a miracle that he is not in braces" ... It was an exploitative fight.
Sonny Liston bombed out a peak Williams at the height of his powers in 2 rounds... That was a REAL feat... Comparing a washed up Williams to a peak Liston is like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Marilyn Monroe.
Wait doesn't that help make my point? Williams, the weak and broken, got right up from a similar punch and the healthier, physically superior Liston got stretched out. That helps make my point about Liston's behavior being shady.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 22:08
by Kalan
NO it doesn't... Any boxing professional knows you can deliver seemingly devastating punches and not even hurt your opponent... But a light punch in the perfect spot can put him down or even out.
Ali hit Liston with a light punch in a perfect spot... Not surprisingly Liston got up as soon as he could see Ali was at a safe distance that Ali wouldn't run in and hit him as he was getting up... Liston could have waited for Ali to go to a neutral corner and been fine according to the rules... But you never know what stupid, corrupt, and incompetent officials will do.
Liston got screwed royally and that's one thing we agree on.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 22:19
by Kalan
BoxBuzz wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:41
Kalan........point of order
Go back and look at Cleveland's record after the shot.....(which if you want to be accurate he actually miraculously rehabilitated very successfully.) Now, with that said no one is going to say he got better after that fateful encounter
YEAH... Because he got a HELL of a lot WORSE... Because of the paralysis his balance was SHITT... Because of muscle weakness in 1 of his legs his movement was SHITT.... And because he was aging rapidly his future in Boxing was the same.
It was an exploitative fight on the part of Ali... The man did a lot of those undeserving challenger type fights.
BoxBuzz wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:41
Kalan........point of order
Go back and look at Cleveland's record after the shot.....(which if you want to be accurate he actually miraculously rehabilitated very successfully.) Now, with that said no one is going to say he got better after that fateful encounter
YEAH... Because he got a HELL of a lot WORSE... Because of the paralysis his balance was SHITT... Because of muscle weakness in 1 of his legs his movement was SHITT.... And because he was aging rapidly his future in Boxing was the same.
It was an exploitative fight on the part of Ali... The man did a lot of those undeserving challenger type fights.
Stop babbling incoherent nonsense, like I said go back and look at the record...and put on your best pair of glasses, . The big Cat did quite well for all those accusations of lameness you are lobbing in his direction. I bet he would never say such things about you. Like I said he fared well in the rehab dept, though Ali was way too much for him....as he was too much for Liston as well. Big talent gulf between these fighters. He deserved the shot....as he was competitive with the other "names in the frame" at the time. You are serving nothing but goofy propaganda with your assertions.
But fear not faithful readers of the forum, there are folks here who will always be ready willing and able to serve as the "truth patrol" for as long as such fiction writers wander the halls. Kalans intent to deceive, discredit, deny, delete or dilapidate the genuine, bona-fide, accurate and carefully documented and properly researched history of this sport stands little chance of success as long as you are willing to do your own research, and maintain a healthy curiosity.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 22:49
by oogiebe
Wooooooooowwwwww...this is like the Eveready thread.
BoxBuzz wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:41
Kalan........point of order
Go back and look at Cleveland's record after the shot.....(which if you want to be accurate he actually miraculously rehabilitated very successfully.) Now, with that said no one is going to say he got better after that fateful encounter
YEAH... Because he got a HELL of a lot WORSE... Because of the paralysis his balance was SHITT... Because of muscle weakness in 1 of his legs his movement was SHITT.... And because he was aging rapidly his future in Boxing was the same.
It was an exploitative fight on the part of Ali... The man did a lot of those undeserving challenger type fights.
Stop babbling incoherent nonsense, like I said go back and look at the record...and put on your best pair of glasses
You're the guy who admits he has very poor vision and needs glasses BuzzBox... You're the KING of delusional muddled horse manure.. everything I say is the truth and well documented. You shoot from the hip with nonsensical statements like Williams was deserving of a Title Fight when he most certainly WAS NOT! You have no facts to back your BS.
Williams never beat a contender after he was shot and nearly killed... He had multiple physical disabilities that included partial paralysis, muscle weakness, and balance issues... A kidney was destroyed and removed along with several feet of his intestines... Doctors could not take out the patrolman's bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis in most of his hip muscles... This gave Williams balance and movement issues.
Please take a look at who Williams fought after he was shot and before the Ali Fight… I know you hate facts.
Williams was out for 17 months -- and fought Ben Black whose record was 2-2-1...
Next Williams fought Mel Turnbow who was 6-4.. Williams was Turnbow’s 4th loss in a row… In Turnbow’s previous fight he was smashed out in 1 round by Joe Frazier who was 4-0. Turnbow decked Williams and easily went 10 rounds with him.
Next Williams fought Sonny Moore who was 20-20-2 and had lost 5 of his previous 7 fights and was coming off a win over a guy with only 1 previous professional fight... Moore went on to lose 13 of his next 14 fights... Moore went the distance.
Next Williams fought Todd Herring. Herring never beat a ranked contender and was knocked out by 4 of them… Herring wanted to quit because he suffered 2 brutal, back-to-back, KO losses in his previous 2 fights… One ended 40 seconds into the 3rd round and was administered by Floyd Patterson.. The other KO was administered by Elmer Rush who was 11-1-2 in his young career. Rush gave Herring a terrible beating and stopped him in 4.. Herring and Williams both lived in Huston and they were friends... Herring in fact gave blood for Williams operations... I believe there was an arrangement there... That win supposedly got Williams a Title shot.
So was Elmer Rush entitled to a Title Fight?
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 17 Apr 2018, 04:14
by wouter
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:35
He didn't actually land any that a sharp eyed judge would count as a scoring punch... A video shown from shoulder height on TV a month or so after the fight showed that Ali clearly missed all of his follow up punches... None landed.
Unfortunately, this video exists only in your imagination.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 17 Apr 2018, 10:41
by oogiebe
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:23
Cleveland Williams was guy who was almost killed by a police officer and lost a great deal of body functioning because of it... He was a physical wreck when he fought Ali... He never beat a good fighter after he was shot... He was done.
The police officer's .357 magnum revolver shot Williams in the intestines, which quite few feet of them had to be removed... Williams underwent four operations in 7 months for colon damage and his right kidney was removed in June 1965. Doctors did not take out a bullet that broke his right hip joint and caused paralysis in his right hip muscle.
Before the Ali fight his surgeon, Dr. Don Quast, said ''It is a miracle that he is not in braces" ... It was an exploitative fight.
Sonny Liston bombed out a peak Williams at the height of his powers in 2 rounds... That was a REAL feat... Comparing a washed up Williams to a peak Liston is like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Marilyn Monroe.
The Williams who fought Sonny wasn't the Williams that fought Ali. He was certainly a shell of the fighter he was before. Not so say he would've beaten Ali, but it wasn't a brilliant win for Ali by far.
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:35
He didn't actually land any that a sharp eyed judge would count as a scoring punch... A video shown from shoulder height on TV a month or so after the fight showed that Ali clearly missed all of his follow up punches... None landed.
Unfortunately, this video exists only in your imagination.
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 21:23
Cleveland Williams was guy who was almost killed by a police officer and lost a great deal of body functioning because of it... He was a physical wreck when he fought Ali... He never beat a good fighter after he was shot... He was done.
The police officer's .357 magnum revolver shot Williams in the intestines, which quite few feet of them had to be removed... Williams underwent four operations in 7 months for colon damage and his right kidney was removed in June 1965. Doctors did not take out a bullet that broke his right hip joint and caused paralysis in his right hip muscle.
Before the Ali fight his surgeon, Dr. Don Quast, said ''It is a miracle that he is not in braces" ... It was an exploitative fight.
Sonny Liston bombed out a peak Williams at the height of his powers in 2 rounds... That was a REAL feat... Comparing a washed up Williams to a peak Liston is like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Marilyn Monroe.
The Williams who fought Sonny wasn't the Williams that fought Ali. He was certainly a shell of the fighter he was before. Not so say he would've beaten Ali, but it wasn't a brilliant win for Ali by far.
Exactly my point... After BuzzBox studies the post for a few hours, and studies the record, it's possible some facts may start creeping into his brain and he'll admit Williams was a wasted shell, instead of a physically rehabilitated destroyer.
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 01:55
by APerno
Sewage?
English as a lingua franca is spreading across the world; it is the American version of the language that will eventually become the world's language, not the British version. You Brits can always find solace in being its originator, and being the champion of its pureness, but in the end it will be phrases from the American lexicon that the world will speak.
Japanese teenagers don't say: "What all this then." No, they say, "Wuz up!" (Actually, that's pretty fornicating sad, but I won't admit it)
Our innovations have expanded the language, our commercial dominance has spread the language, and most importantly through our art we have popularized the language.
British English will soon find itself an isolated island in a sea of Americanisms.
Sewage? You don't respect a society that has given the world the Pet Rock, pee videos, professional wrestling, and the 99 cent bargain? Boy you would think, you think we Americans are a trivialized culture.
Sewage!
Re: The Phantom Punch.
Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 12:40
by Kalan
Those are facts... The Vietnam War wasn't worth one American life -- much less 58,000 lives and 250,000 casualties.
You're the lying piece of bird crap who said Ali landed 5 punches in his follow up barrage of 6.
I couldn't give a fuk about Cosell, or Goldstein or their scabby opinions you blind fool. Go to 2.30 of this clip watch it, then tell us again how Ali missed with every shot he threw, or Liston was trying to make a fight of it,. you pathological lying SCUM.
Of course because you are lying vermin you WON'T do that, but probably someone else will, someone in fact out of the 30 million people worldwide who KNOW about the fight, as opposed to offering a retarded revisionist version of it.
Some free advice.
Instead of trying to deny irrefutable FACTS, stick to your bullshit story about how you told the US Marines Vietnam was immoral YEARS before anyone else did, and got an " honourable " discharge for your pains.
That way everyone KNOWS you're a stupid kunt.
Did you put "honourable" in quotes to draw attention to the fact that on your island "u" is in honorable? Because in the good Ol' USA "u" will never be found to have much to do with the word honorable. And that Mr Oldie.....is an American fact. However "u" duz fer shur show up in England and the U.S. (both south and north) in the word humble.......and that is something for you to thoughtfully consider.
As usual you use 100 words when 10 would suffice.
To reiterate, I have as much interest in ANYTHING Murican, as I do ISIS. FUK ALL. I consider your country, and your people, sewage.
Stop with the insults....they are simply too much to bare. I'll not hear another unkind word against one of the top ten nations ever.
C'mon Goldie, let's stop the nonsense and get on with the boxing. Please.
Perhaps you should tell that to the arrogant fool who tried telling me how to spell HONOURABLE, particularly when we have been using the word long before Christopher Columbus or even Leif Erikson arrived on your shores.
I guess that was a no. When you insult other Americans as Americans, it pisses me off as well. Clever banter is fine, but in my opinion, it just goes a bit too far. Just try. I saw the other post. I get your anger.
