AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 03:31
Well, that same Stiverne is ranked in the top 15 of the WBC for the longest period of time of all the boxers that are ranked by the WBC right? So either, the WBC is corrupt and Stiverne is indeed not that good, or he is good and it shouldn't be an offence for Luis Ortiz.
On top of that, if you look at Luis Ortiz his recent fights, he made a good performance against Jennings, a reasoneble one against Thompson, an average one against Scott, a bad one against David Allen and a terrible performance against Wilder, now what will he do next? I currently rate Joe Joyce for example higher then Luis Ortiz.
Which demonstrates how wide of the mark your opinions really are. I mean I really do not know what you base your opinions on! Joyce has had three pro fights
And yes, of course the WBC is corrupt, as many posters have alluded to in numerous threads. If Breazeale is Wilder's next defence, that will be 8 out of 9 fighters from the same stable. And considering how big the world is, it looks a little suspicious. I mean come on man, think about it. January 2015 and Wilder beats Stiverne to gain the WBC crown. After the defeat, it takes Stiverne 11 months to get back in the ring, as he laboured to a win against journeyman Derric Rossy, someone barely inside the world top 100. That was enough to install Stiverne back into mandatory position, two years later.
Throw into the mix the recent shenanigans with Whyte and his 'mandatory' position. I think you have a very suspicious looking governing body.
He's an olympic silver super heavyweight who actually was much better as the gold medal winner. Luis Ortiz downgraded so fast, couldn't even win against a lucky olympic bronze cruiserweight? Ortiz only became worse, Joe Joyce only became better.
Once again, what are you basing this on? The retirement of Lewison on his stool? The sparking out of two relatively inexperienced unknowns? How many fighters has Joyce fought in the mould of Wilder? What would Joyce do against Wilder? Other than get KTFO? I'd love to hear your thoughts on these specific questions.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑05 May 2018, 04:30
He's better then Luis Ortiz right now. I don't really care if you believe me or not.
While it's a bold call, I won't criticize. One never knows. I may doubt as he struggled with Thomas.
We are talking about a 250+ pound guy who's doing salto's in the ring for fun, he got it all, size, speed, strength everything you need to win a heavyweight fight. And now people act like some 40 year old can handle him? Come on, just admit Joe Joyce is better and he'll show it again in a couple of hours.
Ok, if it makes you happy!
Joe Joyce is better and he'll show it again in a couple of hours
(the force gives you power over weak minds)
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
Posted: 05 May 2018, 14:04
by oogiebe
Please promise me you will make a wager if the two ever fight. I'm all over taking Wilder on that! LOL!
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑05 May 2018, 17:15
Are you joking or what? I suggest you to watch Luis Ortiz his recent fights, maybe that will wake you up.
If Joyce's team was as confident as you are.
We would be seeing him right now with at least top 20 opponents.
He's not even close to ready for Ortiz
I'm confident we will see him with top 20 opponents, you realise that David Haye, Charles Martin, Thomas Adamek, Tony Bellew are all top 20 opponents right?
I could name 20 HW's better than all but maybe Martin, ratings aside. Haye and Bellew are not true HW's (although you may argue Haye), Adamek is shot; Martin can't take the next step.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑05 May 2018, 18:56
I'm confident we will see him with top 20 opponents, you realise that David Haye, Charles Martin, Thomas Adamek, Tony Bellew are all top 20 opponents right?
I could name 20 HW's better than all but maybe Martin, ratings aside. Haye and Bellew are not true HW's (although you may argue Haye), Adamek is shot; Martin can't take the next step.
I agree with that completely, but fact remains, they are ranked that high in the boxrec heavyweight rankings. And Bellew even by the WBC.
LOL! Bellew arrived at #4 and Haye was "new" at 15. I was like WTF????!!!!
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑05 May 2018, 04:33
He's an olympic silver super heavyweight who actually was much better as the gold medal winner. Luis Ortiz downgraded so fast, couldn't even win against a lucky olympic bronze cruiserweight? Ortiz only became worse, Joe Joyce only became better.
Once again, what are you basing this on? The retirement of Lewison on his stool? The sparking out of two relatively inexperienced unknowns? How many fighters has Joyce fought in the mould of Wilder? What would Joyce do against Wilder? Other than get KTFO? I'd love to hear your thoughts on these specific questions.
Well, just look at him vs Oleksandr Usyk (a match he won in my opinion, but appearantly everyone else disagrees).
Here you can see Wilder vs Clemente Russo
"This is the worst heavyweight division I've ever seen"
Here you see Oleksandr Usyk vs Clemente Russo
Now that Wilder guy won against Luis Ortiz, what do you expect Joe Joyce to do? Also, what do you expect Joe Joyce to do against Wilder? I think he would win both of those matches.
You're digging a deeper hole sunshine. Providing videos from 10 years ago, from the amateurs, does not offer any substance to your pretty wild claims. Nor does your complete lack of applied logic (fighter A beat fighter B, fighter B beat fighter C, so fighter A must definitely be better than fighter C). It's a little embarrassing.
Anyone in here will tell you that the amateur game and the pro ranks are almost like two different sports. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Then throw in a decade of development, those guys will be completely different fighters altogether.
You wanna have another crack?
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
Posted: 06 May 2018, 14:28
by oogiebe
To put it do bed, Joyce's handlers will not seek that matchup in the foreseeable future and should tell you something. Usyk would kill the guy "until he was dead." (name that movie it comes from). Joyce is too open and plodding to even consider this yet, despite his age. He's open to the body; open to the counter left hook over that right hand of his, etc. I can't picture him even against the top 5 CW's much less HW's.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
Posted: 06 May 2018, 14:29
by oogiebe
oogiebe wrote: ↑06 May 2018, 14:28
To put it do bed, Joyce's handlers will not seek that matchup in the foreseeable future and should tell you something. Usyk would kill the guy "until he was dead." (name that movie it comes from). Joyce is too open and plodding to even consider this yet, despite his age. He's open to the body; open to the counter left hook over that right hand of his, etc. I can't picture him even against the top 5 CW's much less HW's.
Thanks for the vids.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
Posted: 06 May 2018, 18:54
by jamamb
lol at those olympics vids from 10 years ago, by the way usyk rematched the guy in the 2012 olympic finals and clearly beat him. usyk was like 21 in the bejing olympics and wilder had started boxing like 2.5 years before
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 May 2018, 15:12
If you watched him fight tonight and you still possess that utterly bizarre opinion, then you'd almost certainly need your fûckîng head examined!
Are you joking or what? I suggest you to watch Luis Ortiz his recent fights, maybe that will wake you up.
If Joyce's team was as confident as you are.
We would be seeing him right now with at least top 20 opponents.
He's not even close to ready for Ortiz
To be fair Tiny he's being moved along even faster than Joshua was. If Chisora had accepted the offer and fought Joyce in Joe's fourth fight this weekend, then Joe would have already fought an arguably top twenty opponent.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑05 May 2018, 17:15
Are you joking or what? I suggest you to watch Luis Ortiz his recent fights, maybe that will wake you up.
If Joyce's team was as confident as you are.
We would be seeing him right now with at least top 20 opponents.
He's not even close to ready for Ortiz
To be fair Tiny he's being moved along even faster than Joshua was. If Chisora had accepted the offer and fought Joyce in Joe's fourth fight this weekend, then Joe would have already fought an arguably top twenty opponent.
They should move faster than AJ, he's 4 years older. He'll make some sort of fast track run and get blown out by a top 7 or 8 fighter late this year, early next year, IMHO.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
If Joyce's team was as confident as you are.
We would be seeing him right now with at least top 20 opponents.
He's not even close to ready for Ortiz
To be fair Tiny he's being moved along even faster than Joshua was. If Chisora had accepted the offer and fought Joyce in Joe's fourth fight this weekend, then Joe would have already fought an arguably top twenty opponent.
They should move faster than AJ, he's 4 years older. He'll make some sort of fast track run and get blown out by a top 7 or 8 fighter late this year, early next year, IMHO.
Well that's why the haste but if he's beaten any time in the next year or two, I'd wager it will be someone a lot better than 7 or 8. He may look crude and slow ... damnit he is crude and slow, but his strength, size, power and stamina will take some stopping. If I were Dillian Whyte I would give him a very wide berth.
He is capable of looking much more of a boxer but I think against Thomas he ignored the fundamentals because he could. He made a fairly decent level opponent look like a heavy bag.
His nickname "Juggernaut" is well chosen.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
To be fair Tiny he's being moved along even faster than Joshua was. If Chisora had accepted the offer and fought Joyce in Joe's fourth fight this weekend, then Joe would have already fought an arguably top twenty opponent.
They should move faster than AJ, he's 4 years older. He'll make some sort of fast track run and get blown out by a top 7 or 8 fighter late this year, early next year, IMHO.
Well that's why the haste but if he's beaten any time in the next year or two, I'd wager it will be someone a lot better than 7 or 8. He may look crude and slow ... damnit he is crude and slow, but his strength, size, power and stamina will take some stopping. If I were Dillian Whyte I would give him a very wide berth.
He is capable of looking much more of a boxer but I think against Thomas he ignored the fundamentals because he could. He made a fairly decent level opponent look like a heavy bag.
His nickname "Juggernaut" is well chosen.
Good points...I guess we'll see. He does remind me of a stronger Big John Tate, though.
Re: Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)
Posted: 07 May 2018, 13:27
by candyslim
I guess they have similar strengths and weaknesses.
