Shelly Finkel's justification for his actions and allegations about Hearn's behaviour is laughable and most of his claims are utter bôllôcks.
Team Wilder refuse to engage in face-to-face discussions, prove they have the money and won't provide a contract.
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 18:39
by Badhusker
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 20:04
by tiny_acres
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
an offer is made they either accept or turn it down. If it's accepted a contract is drawn out and proof of funds is shown.
It's how business works.
But the Wilder haters will deny that's how it's done. It's how all big business works
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 20:16
by Bard of Boxrec
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
The difference is everyone knows the money is there for the Hearn promotion and the deal that Hearn offered. The onus is on Wilder's team to prove they're not pulling numbers out their ass, as well as clarify the details of the date, venue, the promotion...you know, only ALL THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO CONSIDER FOR A FIGHT. Why on earth would Hearn and Joshua say 'Yes' to this offer then risk looking like idiots when it turns out it was a PR stunt.
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
The difference is everyone knows the money is there for the Hearn promotion and the deal that Hearn offered. The onus is on Wilder's team to prove they're not pulling numbers out their ass, as well as clarify the details of the date, venue, the promotion...you know, only ALL THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO CONSIDER FOR A FIGHT. Why on earth would Hearn and Joshua say 'Yes' to this offer then risk looking like idiots when it turns out it was a PR stunt.
Haymon has been involved in the 2 largest grossing fights in history. Hearn has not come close to the dollar amount that Haymon has been involved with.
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 02:00
by nmhz
Put all the $50mil verbal agreement and contract stuff aside, why would Finkle cancel a sit down meeting to discuss it face to face? That fact alone speaks volumes about their legitimacy in the offer
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 02:15
by jamamb
ya thats interesting. why cancel a meeting where you could really talk things out? how is that not counterproductive to cancel it?
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
an offer is made they either accept or turn it down. If it's accepted a contract is drawn out and proof of funds is shown.
It's how business works.
But the Wilder haters will deny that's how it's done. It's how all big business works
Don't be silly. If somebody makes a proposal and you like the sound of it, you are going to make it known that you are interested. None but a fool will give a commitment until they know what they are agreeing to, especially when they have legal obligations to other parties already in place, which the unknown terms of the contract yet to be seen, might make impossible to comply with.
Come on Tiny. I know badhusker is a love-sick puppy, but I had you down as a thinking man. If you are serious about a deal you don't refuse to discuss it, and give your counterpart 24 hours to accept or it's all off. It screams "Bullshit".
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 05:33
by the_doctor
So what happened is;
Hearn offers Wilder $12.5m. They say no, we will send a counter offer.
A few weeks later, Wilder offers Joshua $50m/50%.
Hearn says OK, $50m sounds good, show us some details/a contract and we'll talk about it.
Wilder's team say no, you have to accept it within 24hrs, then they cancel an arranged meeting to discuss the fight.
All this "Hearn didn't send a contract to Wilder", well no he didn't because they turned down the $12.5m. If they had been interested, the next step is to look at the details and see if something can be worked out. Joshua's team were clearly interested, but wanted to see some more details and to discuss it face-to-face, to which Wilder's team say "No".
Pretty clear to me who is being awkward in all of this...
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
an offer is made they either accept or turn it down. If it's accepted a contract is drawn out and proof of funds is shown.
It's how business works.
But the Wilder haters will deny that's how it's done. It's how all big business works
That is absolutely not how a fight like this is made, there should be a detailed contract in place.
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
an offer is made they either accept or turn it down. If it's accepted a contract is drawn out and proof of funds is shown.
It's how business works.
But the Wilder haters will deny that's how it's done. It's how all big business works
Don't be silly. If somebody makes a proposal and you like the sound of it, you are going to make it known that you are interested. None but a fool will give a commitment until they know what they are agreeing to, especially when they have legal obligations to other parties already in place, which the unknown terms of the contract yet to be seen, might make impossible to comply with.
Come on Tiny. I know badhusker is a love-sick puppy, but I had you down as a thinking man. If you are serious about a deal you don't refuse to discuss it, and give your counterpart 24 hours to accept or it's all off. It screams "Bullshit".
You are correct in the fact that both sides should have met.
But again their are emails, tweets and videos showing both sides refused to meet
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
an offer is made they either accept or turn it down. If it's accepted a contract is drawn out and proof of funds is shown.
It's how business works.
But the Wilder haters will deny that's how it's done. It's how all big business works
That is absolutely not how a fight like this is made, there should be a detailed contract in place.
There is never a contract made before verbal agreement us reached
Badhusker wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:39
FFS some of you are cracking me up. I am pretty sure Finkle, Haymon, and Deas know how to make a damn fight. Who ever shows the contract and proves source of money first? Did Hearn show Wilder the contract and prove the source of money and the contract before they expected Wilder to agree to the verbal offer? Did Wilder ever see a contract? No, No, and No. Wilder didn't accept the terms verbally, so there was no sense getting the contract. Proving the source of funds? WTF? Hearn is putting BS spin on it.
It is pretty obvious they will wait to have Wilder vs Joshua in the late fall, so they might as well sign their next fights. In the meantime, all team Wilder want them to do is agree verbally, which is not legally binding despite what the idiot EO claims. If they accept the money amount, they can proceed with negotiations of the contract that is presented.
The difference is everyone knows the money is there for the Hearn promotion and the deal that Hearn offered. The onus is on Wilder's team to prove they're not pulling numbers out their ass, as well as clarify the details of the date, venue, the promotion...you know, only ALL THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO CONSIDER FOR A FIGHT. Why on earth would Hearn and Joshua say 'Yes' to this offer then risk looking like idiots when it turns out it was a PR stunt.
I agree.
Hearn had already arranged two meetings last week (Thursday and Friday) with Team Wilder, but the Americans cancelled them and published letters to the media instead, saying that discussions are pointless unless their offer is accepted, but no fûckèr knows the details of their alleged "offer".
That's not how fûckîng business is conducted!
Those twàts who think that negotiations should be performed entirely via social media need to get their head examined!
an offer is made they either accept or turn it down. If it's accepted a contract is drawn out and proof of funds is shown.
It's how business works.
But the Wilder haters will deny that's how it's done. It's how all big business works
Don't be silly. If somebody makes a proposal and you like the sound of it, you are going to make it known that you are interested. None but a fool will give a commitment until they know what they are agreeing to, especially when they have legal obligations to other parties already in place, which the unknown terms of the contract yet to be seen, might make impossible to comply with.
Come on Tiny. I know badhusker is a love-sick puppy, but I had you down as a thinking man. If you are serious about a deal you don't refuse to discuss it, and give your counterpart 24 hours to accept or it's all off. It screams "Bullshit".
You are correct in the fact that both sides should have met.
But again their are emails, tweets and videos showing both sides refused to meet
EO beat me to it but all I've seen is Hearn complaining in bemusement that the scheduled meeting was put back a day then cancelled altogether, and a communication from Dibella saying there's no point in talking. I've seen nothing to indicate that Hearn didn't want to meet.
Let's say I'm in business. I really don't want to go through with a deal but I'm desperate that the public at large will believe I did my utmost to make it happen. How would I achieve these two seemingly incompatible goals?
I could offer an impressive sum of money knowing they can't accept it.
Why not? Because I don't tell them even the most basic details, so for one thing they don't know if they can even fulfill their existing legal obligations to other parties.
What if they say "Lets meet to thrash out the details"? Simple. I tell them there's no point meeting until they confirm the unconfirmable.
What if they explain the situation to their existing contractual partners and try to negotiate a work-around? I give them such a short deadline for acceptance that they have no time to even attempt it.
Won't people see through this ... erm ... unconventional proposal? Yeah some will but many others want to believe and many are just plain dumb.
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 12:21
by greg
candyslim wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 12:00.......
Won't people see through this ... erm ... unconventional proposal? Yeah some will but many others want to believe and many are just plain dumb.
..welcome to the real world..
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 12:58
by Boxerbeetle
This thread clearly demonstrates which posters have real life experience of business, and those who just read about it on the internet
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 14:10
by Lackeos
nmhz wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 02:00
why would Finkle cancel a sit down meeting to discuss it face to face? That fact alone speaks volumes about their legitimacy in the offer
What's the difference between sit down and face-to-face? Isn't that like... in one of them, you're sitting in chairs and your faces are 3 feet apart, and in the other one, you're standing up and your faces are 3 feet apart? Are the chairs really that much of a barrier?
The only interesting thing about that video was the subtitles, they clearly didn't understand a word that guy said
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 17:22
by liamlion
It's really simple, regardless of offers accepted or not and contracts provided or not you have a meeting to discuss and progress matters.
Eddie Hearn was in New York actively chasing Team Wilder for a meeting this week. Team Wilder rearranged the first meeting and then cancelled on the second meeting. There is only one side interested in a meeting and it isn't Team Wilder.
There doesn't have to be any offer or contract agreed in order for a meeting to take place.
I note that Shelley Finkle makes no reference in his recent open letter to resolving matters by having a meeting with Hearn to try and reach an agreement. Why not?
Meetings and private discussions between teams are actually how fights between champions are made.
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 30 Apr 2018, 19:15
by Badhusker
AJ said he would make the fight the next day if guaranteed $50 million.
I guess his promise was not legitimate and was just blowing smoke. All team Wilder wants to do before meeting is for them to agree on the amount like AJ said he would! THEN they can meet to negotiate the rest. They don't want to waste time negotiating the amount when they meet, which Hearn will want to do.
Re: Team Wilder makes $50 million offer to Joshua
Posted: 30 Apr 2018, 19:46
by Enlightened-One
Badhusker wrote: ↑30 Apr 2018, 19:15
AJ said he would make the fight the next day if guaranteed $50 million.
I guess his promise was not legitimate and was just blowing smoke. All team Wilder wants to do before meeting is for them to agree on the amount like AJ said he would! THEN they can meet to negotiate the rest. They don't want to waste time negotiating the amount when they meet, which Hearn will want to do.
Negotiations aren't carried out that way.
If you think they are or should be, then you're either a child or an imbecile.
Name another high-profile fight in the history of the sport where the financial terms of a bout was agreed upon solely by social media and letters published by websites.
If you can't, then please refrain from behaving like a fûckîng troll!
Badhusker wrote: ↑30 Apr 2018, 19:15
AJ said he would make the fight the next day if guaranteed $50 million.
I guess his promise was not legitimate and was just blowing smoke. All team Wilder wants to do before meeting is for them to agree on the amount like AJ said he would! THEN they can meet to negotiate the rest. They don't want to waste time negotiating the amount when they meet, which Hearn will want to do.
Negotiations aren't carried out that way.
If you think they are or should be, then you're either a child or an imbecile.
Name another high-profile fight in the history of the sport where the financial terms of a bout was agreed upon solely by social media and letters published by websites.
If you can't, then please refrain from behaving like a fûckîng troll!
You are calling me a child, imbecile, and fornicating troll? Wow, hopefully the mods have finally had enough of your BS devil's advocate know it all posts and give you a lengthy ban. The most irritating poster here is now calling names.....We have lost a lot of good posters because of people like you.
By the way, what I said is basically what Shelly Finkel said. Hearn is wet behind the ears compared to him with experience of putting fights together.
damn he needs to say what he really feels