Errol Spence Jr. vs. Mikey Garcia - March 16, 2019

[macademics]

Spence will stop Garcia inside of 8 rounds and I think that's generous.

[caldo2025]

Don't use straw mans'. Instead quote my actual words, which were:

I didn’t pretend that Conte “owned” or “ran” VADA. I didn’t claim he was “employed” by VADA. And nor did I claim that Conte was the main person who “invented” the concept behind VADA.

I did claim that he was one of their co-founders’ as he helped set that organisation up.

I then supplied multiple articles supporting my stance (and Victor's) about him helping with the creation of VADA.

I talked the talk and walked the walk. It's a shame you can only attack my facts with insults instead of evidence.

Who Is Considered a Founder of an Organization?

The founders of an organization are those who bring that organization into existence. Founders take an active interest in getting the enterprise off the ground and finding resources to form the company. When two or more people establish a company, they are known as co-founders...

The following articles I’ve supplied below were published before VADA was officially launched, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Victor Conte was involved in the creation of this organisation (click on the hyperlinks if you don’t believe me):

Victor Conte Launching Anti-Doping Task Force VADA!

Victor Conte Launching Anti-Doping Task Force VADA; WADA Aims to Develop Advanced EPO and HGH Testing

He was once the center of federal investigation and served a jail term for providing professional athletes with performance enhancing drugs. Considered as one of America’s top sports scientist, Victor Conte will again plunge himself into the sports industry by sharing his expertise in performance enhancers. But this time it is not about providing athletes with designer steroids. Conte will be launching a new anti-doping agency together with other health experts in the country.

Conte told Dennis Guillermo of Boxing Scene that a new anti-doping task force will soon become operational. Its goal is to provide athletes with the most comprehensive drug testing. Conte calls this VADA (Voluntary Anti-Doping Agency.) “We’ve been working on this since September of last year and we hope to implement it in the near future,” Conte said. However, a definite date has not been set. “How soon that can be, whether it’s going to be in days, weeks or months, I can’t tell you. But it’s going to be in the near future.”

"Conte Aims To Clean Up Boxing With His Team, VADA"

“I'm going to tell you something that we've never disclosed to anybody before. And we've been working on this and I'll tell you some of the names, because this has been written about in some boxing magazines. Dr. Margaret Goodman (former ringside physician and Medical Advisory Board Chairman for the Nevada State Athletic Commission), Dr. Flip Hamonsky (Former Nevada commissioner), I'm involved, and there's another very high profile anti-doping world renowned expert involved. We'll reveal who this is shortly, but he is one of the most credible people in the world of anti-doping,” Conte told me.

The program is structured so that athletes can voluntarily submit themselves to Olympic-style random drug testing which will be paid for by sponsors to alleviate worries about cost for fighters willing to step forward to show their desire to clean up the sport of boxing.

“It's called VADA (Voluntary Anti-Doping Agency). You're probably reading between the lines here on what have I been talking to Zab (Judah) about, what have I been talking to Nonito (Donaire) about, what have I been talking to Virgil Hunter about (Andre Ward's trainer)," Conte further explained to me. "We've been working on this since September of last year and we hope to implement it in the near future. How soon that can be, whether it's going to be in days, weeks or months, I can't tell you. But it's going to be in the near future.”

You can’t be this dumb. Ever take a business course? Here’s the definition of a Founder to end the fight. Can’t belive you are THIS dumb dude. Your pasted above have nothing to do with FOUNDING VADA, just working for VADA on task force. Here’s the definition per Forbes:

Strictly speaking, in business the founders are the people who establish the company—that is, they take on the risk and reward of creating something from nothing. Remember, an idea by itself is not a company, though most companies start as an idea. Some companies start out as one person’s idea and stay that way. More commonly one or two people might have an idea but then recruit a group to help execute the idea (because ideas are worthless without execution).

The people who recruit that group and get execution going are founders. They split the original ownership in some way, and then work to bring in the resources they need to build an enterprise. Everyone who comes in after this initial ownership division is not. Most are employees, though there are all kinds of additional people resources a startup will eventually utilize. Everyone who is not a founder either works for, partners with, sells to, buys from, or invests in the founder or founders.

Victor Conte was one of several individuals who was instrumental in the creation of VADA.

You previously claimed that I was mistaken, based on his previous affiliation with BALCO, but now it seems you finally recognise that he was involved in the creation of VADA.

I’ve proved it and it’s far too easy to verify.

If you want to avoid debating Victor Conte and instead discuss the dictionary definition of the word “co-founder”, is there an off-topic English language BoxRec board where we can move this debate to?

Either way, it seems that you finally acknowledge all the evidence that I’ve cited that proved that Victor Conte spent 18 months helping to create VADA, regardless as to whether he met your expected dictionary definition of him being a “co-founder” or not.

For the record, I’ve supplied a shît load of evidence (website links) to support my stance but you’ve supplied absolutely fûck all!

A few people might support you, because they want to see me lose an argument, but the very same set of individuals do so whilst refusing to acknowledge real-world facts!

It’s sad when I encounter a man who is so petty that they can’t admit when their wrong. It tells you all that you need to know about a person and what their life must be like on a daily basis. I’m sure that the last time you felt the touch of a woman was less frequent than an appearance of Haley’s Comet and then that’s when I stop the fight. What right do I have in making you feel worse when your mere existence is sad enough? That’s not fun for me.

Humility is an asset, not a weakness. No one wants to be around THAT guy that changes an argument and lie in order to not be wrong. For instance, you said that Conte FOUNDED the company. Founding a company is a legal undertaking and it entitled the person to s percentage of the company. Conte never founded the company, he was used as a consultant but now you’ve resorted to changing the label to more of a loose interpretation that fits your losing opinion a little better. But it still gets you nowhere close to being correct.

Go on and ask someone that you know who has their hands into the corporate structure and they will set you straight. You are wrong and me winning this argument does me no satisfaction. It’s like knocking out a blind person with s bum leg. I can’t brag about it so why continue? Just sad.

[ironbeard]

You can’t be this dumb. Ever take a business course? Here’s the definition of a Founder to end the fight. Can’t belive you are THIS dumb dude. Your pasted above have nothing to do with FOUNDING VADA, just working for VADA on task force. Here’s the definition per Forbes:

Strictly speaking, in business the founders are the people who establish the company—that is, they take on the risk and reward of creating something from nothing. Remember, an idea by itself is not a company, though most companies start as an idea. Some companies start out as one person’s idea and stay that way. More commonly one or two people might have an idea but then recruit a group to help execute the idea (because ideas are worthless without execution).

The people who recruit that group and get execution going are founders. They split the original ownership in some way, and then work to bring in the resources they need to build an enterprise. Everyone who comes in after this initial ownership division is not. Most are employees, though there are all kinds of additional people resources a startup will eventually utilize. Everyone who is not a founder either works for, partners with, sells to, buys from, or invests in the founder or founders.

Victor Conte was one of several individuals who was instrumental in the creation of VADA.

You previously claimed that I was mistaken, based on his previous affiliation with BALCO, but now it seems you finally recognise that he was involved in the creation of VADA.

I’ve proved it and it’s far too easy to verify.

If you want to avoid debating Victor Conte and instead discuss the dictionary definition of the word “co-founder”, is there an off-topic English language BoxRec board where we can move this debate to?

Either way, it seems that you finally acknowledge all the evidence that I’ve cited that proved that Victor Conte spent 18 months helping to create VADA, regardless as to whether he met your expected dictionary definition of him being a “co-founder” or not.

For the record, I’ve supplied a shît load of evidence (website links) to support my stance but you’ve supplied absolutely fûck all!

A few people might support you, because they want to see me lose an argument, but the very same set of individuals do so whilst refusing to acknowledge real-world facts!

It’s sad when I encounter a man who is so petty that they can’t admit when their wrong. It tells you all that you need to know about a person and what their life must be like on a daily basis.

Don’t be sad CalDOH. Just skip looking in the mirror.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Unbeaten former 168-pound champion David Benavidez will appear in a 10-rounder against an opponent to be determined as the March 16 co-main event when left-handed IBF welterweight champion Errol Spence defends against four-division title winner Mikey Garcia on FOX (9 p.m. ET/ 6 p.m. PT) at The Dallas Cowboys’ AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas, near Spence’s hometown of DeSoto, Benavidez’s promoter, Sampson Lewkowicz, told BS.com on Friday.

The 21-year-old Benavidez (20-0, 17 KOs) will be returning from a six-month suspension for a positive drug test of benzoylecgonine -- a main ingredient for cocaine – and was declared “Champion in recess” in October, effectively stripping of his WBC crown.

The ruling was made at the WBC convention -- where former champion Anthony Dirrell (32-1-1, 24 KOs) was ordered into a vacant title fight against Avni Yildirim (21-1, 12 KOs) – and permits Benavidez to challenge the Dirrell-Yildirum winner after his suspension ends on February 27, Lewkowicz said.

[ewenhay]

Fair play to Garcia for stepping up to the challenge. The kid's got guts and is daring to be great.

I hope he doesn't get damaged like Brook did when he tried to do the same against Golovkin

[oogiebe]

Fair play to Garcia for stepping up to the challenge. The kid's got guts and is daring to be great.

I hope he doesn't get damaged like Brook did when he tried to do the same against Golovkin

I'm in the camp that Spence will poleaxe Garcia.

[ewenhay]

Fair play to Garcia for stepping up to the challenge. The kid's got guts and is daring to be great.

I hope he doesn't get damaged like Brook did when he tried to do the same against Golovkin

I'm in the camp that Spence will poleaxe Garcia.

Yeah I think he'll be too much and break him down by the middle rounds.

In fact I think it will be very much like the Golovkin v Brook fight or even the Alvarez v Khan fight.

Hopefully without any broken orbital bones.

[oogiebe]

Fair play to Garcia for stepping up to the challenge. The kid's got guts and is daring to be great.

I hope he doesn't get damaged like Brook did when he tried to do the same against Golovkin

I'm in the camp that Spence will poleaxe Garcia.

Yeah I think he'll be too much and break him down by the middle rounds.

In fact I think it will be very much like the Golovkin v Brook fight or even the Alvarez v Khan fight.

Hopefully without any broken orbital bones.

I hope he gets out of the fight with honor and goes back down in weight.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Fair play to Garcia for stepping up to the challenge. The kid's got guts and is daring to be great.

I hope he doesn't get damaged like Brook did when he tried to do the same against Golovkin

I'm in the camp that Spence will poleaxe Garcia.

Yeah I think he'll be too much and break him down by the middle rounds.

In fact I think it will be very much like the Golovkin v Brook fight or even the Alvarez v Khan fight.

Hopefully without any broken orbital bones.

No KO’s.. it ends a draw. All big fights seem to be ending in a draw.

[Cent0089]

If Mikey can somehow win this, he should be recognised as best P4P boxer in world. Still cannot believe he take this fight and wanted it.

[Ruthless-RKO]

If Mikey can somehow win this, he should be recognised as best P4P boxer in world. Still cannot believe he take this fight and wanted it.

Seems like more people are writing Garcia off. I’m just saying don’t underestimate him.

He might not be as powerful as Spence, and speed might be slightly slower. But he’s a damn good boxer. He’s smart and very intelligent in the ring.

A loss here won’t affect his status. He’s daring to be great. A KO loss won’t hurt him and a decision loss would be even better.

[Cent0089]

If Mikey can somehow win this, he should be recognised as best P4P boxer in world. Still cannot believe he take this fight and wanted it.

Seems like more people are writing Garcia off. I’m just saying don’t underestimate him.

He might not be as powerful as Spence, and speed might be slightly slower. But he’s a damn good boxer. He’s smart and very intelligent in the ring.

A loss here won’t affect his status. He’s daring to be great. A KO loss won’t hurt him and a decision loss would be even better.

Im not writing him off. Im actually cheering at him in this one. Challenging someone who is bigger, faster, stronger and has similar level of boxing skills. That need a big balls which too many boxers and promoters did not have.

[IKSRTFO]

If Mikey can somehow win this, he should be recognised as best P4P boxer in world. Still cannot believe he take this fight and wanted it.

Seems like more people are writing Garcia off. I’m just saying don’t underestimate him.

He might not be as powerful as Spence, and speed might be slightly slower. But he’s a damn good boxer. He’s smart and very intelligent in the ring.

A loss here won’t affect his status. He’s daring to be great. A KO loss won’t hurt him and a decision loss would be even better.

And I don't think Mikey will be that slow compared to Spence. He may be faster and more accurate. The power factor is what makes it dangerous.

[oogiebe]

I keep on thinking, "What does Garcia see that made him take this fight, all things considered?" He's not stupid. I can't wait to see this fight!

[IKSRTFO]

If Mikey can somehow win this, he should be recognised as best P4P boxer in world. Still cannot believe he take this fight and wanted it.

Seems like more people are writing Garcia off. I’m just saying don’t underestimate him.

He might not be as powerful as Spence, and speed might be slightly slower. But he’s a damn good boxer. He’s smart and very intelligent in the ring.

A loss here won’t affect his status. He’s daring to be great. A KO loss won’t hurt him and a decision loss would be even better.

Im not writing him off. Im actually cheering at him in this one. Challenging someone who is bigger, faster, stronger and has similar level of boxing skills. That need a big balls which too many boxers and promoters did not have.

I don't think Spence is faster than Mikey.

[Ruthless-RKO]

If Mikey can somehow win this, he should be recognised as best P4P boxer in world. Still cannot believe he take this fight and wanted it.

Seems like more people are writing Garcia off. I’m just saying don’t underestimate him.

He might not be as powerful as Spence, and speed might be slightly slower. But he’s a damn good boxer. He’s smart and very intelligent in the ring.

A loss here won’t affect his status. He’s daring to be great. A KO loss won’t hurt him and a decision loss would be even better.

Im not writing him off. Im actually cheering at him in this one. Challenging someone who is bigger, faster, stronger and has similar level of boxing skills. That need a big balls which too many boxers and promoters did not have.

Sorry mate I wasn’t aiming that response at you. Just in general.

[jamamb]

im pretty much writing him off

[Cent0089]

Seems like more people are writing Garcia off. I’m just saying don’t underestimate him.

He might not be as powerful as Spence, and speed might be slightly slower. But he’s a damn good boxer. He’s smart and very intelligent in the ring.

A loss here won’t affect his status. He’s daring to be great. A KO loss won’t hurt him and a decision loss would be even better.

Im not writing him off. Im actually cheering at him in this one. Challenging someone who is bigger, faster, stronger and has similar level of boxing skills. That need a big balls which too many boxers and promoters did not have.

Sorry mate I wasn’t aiming that response at you. Just in general.

No problem .... I just cannot see how can Micky win this. But as i said i definitely rooting for him, you too?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Im not writing him off. Im actually cheering at him in this one. Challenging someone who is bigger, faster, stronger and has similar level of boxing skills. That need a big balls which too many boxers and promoters did not have.

Sorry mate I wasn’t aiming that response at you. Just in general.

No problem .... I just cannot see how can Micky win this. But as i said i definitely rooting for him, you too?

I like them both and a loss here hurts more for Spence than it does Garcia. I’m strictly evens on this.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Trainer: Mikey Garcia To Be 'Stronger, Faster, Better' For Spence

Four-division champion Mikey Garcia “is going to be stronger, faster, quicker and…better” for his 147-pound debut and pursuit of a fifth crown in as many divisions against left-handed IBF welterweight champion Errol Spence on March 16 at The Dallas Cowboys’ AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas, on Fox Pay Per View.

Corner man Robert Garcia said his brother, Mikey (39-0, 30 KOs), has years of affiliation with strength and conditioning guru Victor Conte, but that his past two weeks are his first training at Conte’s Scientific Nutrition for Advanced Conditioning (SNAC) facilities in San Carlos, California, an organization that supplies legal sports nutrition products and supplements.

The 28-year-old Spence (24-0, 21 KOs) has advantages in height (5-foot-9 ½-to-5-foot-6) and reach (72-inches-to 68) as well as perceived edges in speed and power over Garcia (39-0, 30 KOs), who, as part of Conte’s program, will incorporate weight-lifting and other methods he is unaccustomed to.

Robert Garcia tells BS.com that he is unconcerned about increased bulk affecting Mikey Garcia’s timing or punch fluidity.

“Mikey can walk around and make 147, but I want Mikey to be physically stronger than he’s been before, if possible, and I want his body to look good as a welterweight if possible. If I thought it would adversely affect Mikey, he wouldn’t be over there. Those are all things that my Dad and myself talked to Victor Conte about, making sure that it wasn’t going to adversely affect Mikey,” said Robert Garcia of their father, Eduardo Garcia, who co-train Mikey, along with his grandson, Robert Jr., in Oxnard, California.

“We wanted to make Mikey faster, stronger and a better fighter, and that’s what’s going to happen. Mikey’s already very strong, physically, so that was not really reason why we sent him over there. The main reason was that here training with us, Mikey’s one of the fighters who runs in the morning and does the boxing, the sparring, the mitt work, the heavy bag. But he never does any of the physical training when it comes to his abs, or doing weights, or anything like that. So we know that Victor Conte will wake him up every day and make him do it. Mikey never has done anything like the pull-ups, sit-ups, push-ups, and I know he’ll be doing all of that.”

Conte spent four years helping athletes to circumvent Olympic-style drug testing policies until BALCO was raided in 200, and served a four-month prison stint after pleading guilty to orchestrating the distribution of illegal performance-enhancing drugs to athletes in some professional sports. But since his release in March 2006, Conte has gone legitimate with SNAC.

Robert Garcia's "not concerned at all" with Conte’s past, and said “Mikey has already signed up” to be tested by The Voluntary Anti-Doping Association (VADA).

"I’ve talked to Conte many, many times…I’m confident that he’s the correct person and that he knows what he’s doing. For the past three or four years he’s always been part of our use of supplements, vitamins, blood work, and whatever Mikey needed. But Mikey had never worked with him in Northern California. This is the first time Mikey’s gone to Northern California to work with him. For the past four years, Mikey’s been taking Conte’s supplements and doing blood work through Victor Conte, so we’ve been working with Victor Conte for at least four years," said Robert Garcia.

"I don’t want him to look like a chubby 147-pounder, but a solid 147-pounder,” said Robe. "Whatever Victor has him doing, he’ll do. My son is out there with him, and they’re telling me that the work is unbelievable and it’s work that Mikey wasn’t doing here in Southern California. Mikey does a lot of rounds of great sparring and comes to the gym every day, but that’s all he does. He doesn’t’ do any of the other physical workouts -- like he might need some weights or pushup and sit ups -- and I felt that it was needed for him to do that.”

[Mexi-Box]

I remember he looked amazing after working with Ariza, I think it was. Anyways, he brought a S&C coach for some of his fights at 130, and he looked strong as hell.

Mikey is a p4p fighter, his boxing IQ is genius, and he has power in both hands. It has translated to 140. He's making guys try to box him instead of trading with him, and Broner didn't even want anything to do with that power. His power is there at 140.

Who knows if he'll have enough power to get the respect of the gigantic Spence Jr., though. If he doesn't, he's getting walked down. I think he does, though, but he'll have to fight the perfect fight.

[oogiebe]

Spence on first thought is too big too strong. But I remember other fights where I thought this to be the case, so I have to believe that Mikey is too smart to walk into a fight he will definitely lose. SRL v. Hagler/Ali v. Liston/M. Spinks v. Holmes...to name a few. The more I think about this fight, the more excited I am to see it.

[caldo2025]

I remember he looked amazing after working with Ariza, I think it was. Anyways, he brought a S&C coach for some of his fights at 130, and he looked strong as hell.

Mikey is a p4p fighter, his boxing IQ is genius, and he has power in both hands. It has translated to 140. He's making guys try to box him instead of trading with him, and Broner didn't even want anything to do with that power. His power is there at 140.

Who knows if he'll have enough power to get the respect of the gigantic Spence Jr., though. If he doesn't, he's getting walked down. I think he does, though, but he'll have to fight the perfect fight.

Yeah, steroids will do that sort of thing when you take it. Just like JMM in his last fight with Pac-Man, hook up with the drug guys if you can’t beat them naturally.

[Mexi-Box]

I remember he looked amazing after working with Ariza, I think it was. Anyways, he brought a S&C coach for some of his fights at 130, and he looked strong as hell.

Mikey is a p4p fighter, his boxing IQ is genius, and he has power in both hands. It has translated to 140. He's making guys try to box him instead of trading with him, and Broner didn't even want anything to do with that power. His power is there at 140.

Who knows if he'll have enough power to get the respect of the gigantic Spence Jr., though. If he doesn't, he's getting walked down. I think he does, though, but he'll have to fight the perfect fight.

Yeah, steroids will do that sort of thing when you take it. Just like JMM in his last fight with Pac-Man, hook up with the drug guys if you can’t beat them naturally.

YOu think an obvious user like Spence Jr. with his gynecomastia is clean? Evens the playing field.

[caldo2025]

I remember he looked amazing after working with Ariza, I think it was. Anyways, he brought a S&C coach for some of his fights at 130, and he looked strong as hell.

Mikey is a p4p fighter, his boxing IQ is genius, and he has power in both hands. It has translated to 140. He's making guys try to box him instead of trading with him, and Broner didn't even want anything to do with that power. His power is there at 140.

Who knows if he'll have enough power to get the respect of the gigantic Spence Jr., though. If he doesn't, he's getting walked down. I think he does, though, but he'll have to fight the perfect fight.

Yeah, steroids will do that sort of thing when you take it. Just like JMM in his last fight with Pac-Man, hook up with the drug guys if you can’t beat them naturally.

YOu think an obvious user like Spence Jr. with his gynecomastia is clean? Evens the playing field.

I think that Boxing is currently operating the same way that baseball did back when McGuire & Sosa we’re hitting homers every night and breaking records. There are a small number of cats playing by the book (GGG) but the majority of the athletes are forced to cut corners in order to keep up with what the others are doing. Floyd is the most egregious case imo. 40 year olds are not in the best shape of their careers and have six packs. Fury doesn’t go from pushing 400 pounds inside a straight jacket and lose over 100 pounds and fight to a draw with the champ of the world inside a year or so. He obviously had some assistance.

I can guarantee that Mikey’s only reason to employ Conte for this fight with Spence Jr is based on chemicals alone. Conte is THE authority on how to beat the system. He has inside info on VADA testing and knows what Mikey will be able to get away with.

It’s all dirty dude. All dirty. But I’m no saint and if you had plucked me into the same situation I’d be typing this post with a needle in my ass for sure. No doubt.