Rocky Marciano vs Deontay Wilder

[handsofstone]

Can you imagine Wilder screaming "BOMB SQUAD" in Marciano's face

[keithmoonhangover]

Haye moved up from CW and was the #2 heavyweight in the world, which is exactly the same ranking as Wilder.

Am I missing the point as well?

Clearly as no one mentioned rankings.

Haye achieved the same thing that Wilder has achieved. You asked for an example and I gave you one. A cruiserweight came up to heavy and became the second best heavyweight in the world. Are you not accepting this?

[Controversial]

What’s more relevant and pertinent in this debate is how many CWs have had successful careers at HW? After all the CW limit is 200lb and physically they are more on a par with Marciano. If the jump up is so easy why is Holyfield the only one in 40 years to have great success?

No it isn't, you total retard.

'Fighters the same frame & weight must therefore be of a similar quality' : repeat facile argument for all eternity.

Imamu Mayfield= Rocky Marciano

Why don't you list the number of fighters 6'5'' and above who have had top level success in pro boxing, 1880s-present. You wouldn't be able to find 10, and one of them is Wilder, who tellingly has been nursed along and carefully protected from the catastrophic LKO that is now on the very near horizon.

If being a giant is so beneficial, why haven't they always dominated? Are they so much more talented now? Deontay Wilder falls over himself, literally swings himself off balance like a sub novice amateur, any time he hurts a man. Is this a newly discovered stratosphere of ring technique? Tyson Fury on the floor vs old middling cruiser Cunningham, Valuev jellied by beefed up cruiser Haye--these giants are the best ever! No one can hurt them! Except the cruisers that do!

Now now no need to get personal. I never said fighters the same size must be the same quality, maybe read my posts more carefully. Plus I never said bigger is better. Or being huge is best. As I said previously I think Marciano would have given Ali a good fight.

I am talking specifically about Marciano vs Wilder. The size and weight difference in this instance COMBINED with speed and power is what someone Marciano's size and STYLE would struggle with. Styles make fights and if anyone thinks someone Marciano's size could stand and trade with someone who hits just as hard, if not harder, is faster and so much bigger, then more fool them. HWs have got bigger over the years and who has dominated the HW division? You got it the big guys. Not blown up CWs. Doesn't mean the top guys today are better fighters or more skilful than the older ATGs but they bring a new dimension to the sport that 13 stone guys like Marciano never encountered and would struggle to overcome.

[jas80s]

I'd be highly surprised if this would be anything remotely competative, Wilder is far taller, got a much longer range, is bigger in every way.

he still has to box smart. here he is trading a pair of right hands with david haye.



he got hit because when a big man and a shorter man are trading a pair of right hands, the shorter man can go under the right hand the big man is throwing, but the big man cant.

marciano had a big right hand. he had a big right hand because boxing in a crouch put his body weight over his back leg. when he threw his right hand, his body weight moved from his back leg to his front leg, and when he hit you, he was hitting you with all of his body weight.

marciano may not be a big man. but he does have a big right hand.



the more marciano can get you throwing and trading punches, the more exposed you are to being hit by one big right hand, and doubly so for a big man, because they are especially disadvantaged whenever trading a pair of right hands with a shorter man.

having a reach advantage can keep a guy out on the end of your punches and out of range from his punches. but to keep your reach advantage you must have good footwork. you keep a reach advantage with your feet not your arms. even a fifteen inch reach advantage can be taken away by just one foot step. remember this whenever pointing out a reach advantage.

This is an excellent post, thank you.

And this from a Marciano fan who nonetheless can't help but wonder how the Rock would deal with such a long jab hiding a truly massive right hand from Wilder....

[Yuzo]

This is an excellent post, thank you.

And this from a Marciano fan who nonetheless can't help but wonder how the Rock would deal with such a long jab hiding a truly massive right hand from Wilder....

i think they both have ways to win.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes, and Michael Moorer, Roy Jones and Michael Spinks simply skipped the cruiserweight division and won titles.
Chris Byrd was a small heavyweight who could easily have had a career at cruiserweight. He had some success at heavyweight as well.
Wilder himself is much lighter than most of the other heavyweights.

It's more than the old "styles makes fight cliche". It's how good you are that is the most important thing.

Your missing the point my friend. The general consensus seems to be that Marciano could easily beat Wilder and his size wouldn’t be a issue. What I’m saying is Marciano would be a CW today, a small one at that, and only one CW in history has had major success at HW. Holyfield had the height, reach and body frame to add bulk, combined with good boxing ability, so he could compete with the bigger HWs. The smaller HWs in recent times have not only had the physique to be competitive they had combinations of speed, elusiveness, power or good boxing ability. Speed and power is always a dangerous mix.

Tony Bellew fought Haye at HW but always said he wasn’t a HW and neither was Haye. Bellew point blank refused to fight AJ stating he was too big. He said at one point he would fight Wilder and then changed his mind after meeting him and said he could see how big he was and knew he stood no chance. Bellew also said he would fight the biggest of the three, Tyson Fury, but qualified that statement by saying Fury wasn’t a KO puncher so felt he would have more success against him. He also said he wanted the fight straight away to take advantage of Fury’s absence from the ring and wouldn’t fight him later down the line as it was all about “timing”. Bellew isn’t small, he’s 6’3”, but he is a CW not a HW. That’s the difference. You can have good skills like Qawi but if you are naturally a small guy then it gets harder the bigger your opponent naturally is.

I don't know if the general consensus is that Marciano would win easily. Several people have picked Wilder and right away went the line regarding size.
What matters most is how good someone is. We don't know really how good Wilder is because he has never been tested. We may know more after the Fury. And if Joshua will fight him before he becomes a senior citizen (doubtful;) we may know even more.
Marciano would not be a cruiserweight today. No way.
You say only one one cruiserweight in history (which only goes back to the early 1980s) has had major success at heavyweight and ignore the lightheavyweights who skipped the cruiserweight division.
You can't just ignore the light heavyweights who did and simply skipped the cruiserweight division. You don't think Spinks, Moorer, Jones etc. could have picked up a Cruiserweight trinket before winning the heavyweight title if they wanted to?

Moorer and Jones can win the heavyweight title but it's hopeless for Marciano?

Don't really care about Tony Bellew.

What cracks me is up is that in fantasy fights that can't really happen, people are always so sure. Bigger guy will win for sure, nothing to debate here.
If we go by the bigger is better is logic, then Wilder has no chance against Fury. He is shorter, has less of a reach, and is lighter.
Can the people who so sure about the size thing being so important go on record and say that Wilder has no chance against Fury?

[Controversial]

Yes, and Michael Moorer, Roy Jones and Michael Spinks simply skipped the cruiserweight division and won titles.
Chris Byrd was a small heavyweight who could easily have had a career at cruiserweight. He had some success at heavyweight as well.
Wilder himself is much lighter than most of the other heavyweights.

It's more than the old "styles makes fight cliche". It's how good you are that is the most important thing.

Your missing the point my friend. The general consensus seems to be that Marciano could easily beat Wilder and his size wouldn’t be a issue. What I’m saying is Marciano would be a CW today, a small one at that, and only one CW in history has had major success at HW. Holyfield had the height, reach and body frame to add bulk, combined with good boxing ability, so he could compete with the bigger HWs. The smaller HWs in recent times have not only had the physique to be competitive they had combinations of speed, elusiveness, power or good boxing ability. Speed and power is always a dangerous mix.

Tony Bellew fought Haye at HW but always said he wasn’t a HW and neither was Haye. Bellew point blank refused to fight AJ stating he was too big. He said at one point he would fight Wilder and then changed his mind after meeting him and said he could see how big he was and knew he stood no chance. Bellew also said he would fight the biggest of the three, Tyson Fury, but qualified that statement by saying Fury wasn’t a KO puncher so felt he would have more success against him. He also said he wanted the fight straight away to take advantage of Fury’s absence from the ring and wouldn’t fight him later down the line as it was all about “timing”. Bellew isn’t small, he’s 6’3”, but he is a CW not a HW. That’s the difference. You can have good skills like Qawi but if you are naturally a small guy then it gets harder the bigger your opponent naturally is.

Is had major success at heavyweight and ignore the lightheavyweights who skipped the cruiserweight division.
You can't just ignore the light heavyweights who did and simply skipped the cruiserweight division. You don't think Spinks, Moorer, Jones etc. could have picked up a Cruiserweight trinket before winning the heavyweight title if they wanted to?

Moorer and Jones can win the heavyweight title but it's hopeless for Marciano?

Don't really care about Tony Bellew.

As I have explained several times you have to evaluate each fighter in isolation and study why they won. How many would have been a world champ if only one belt existed. Styles make fights.

RJJ picked the easiest fight at HW to get a world title. RJJ was very fast and elusive with very good boxing skill. Ruiz was made for him, thats why he won. Plus he wasn't that much smaller than Ruiz anyway. Notice how RJJ didn't stick at HW. Didn't dominate the division.

Moorer had the build for HW, 6'2" with a 78" reach. He took the easiest route fighting for the WBO belt against a blown up CW (who nearly beat him too) and frankly beat a poor version of Holyfield to win another belt, losing the rematch. Didn't dominate the division.

Spinks was a great fighter. He was fast, awkward and punched in combinations. Also he was almost 6'3" with a 76" reach so a decent size for a HW. Thats why he had success.

Haye was 6'3" with a 78" reach. Fast and punched hard. Thats why he had some success.

So yes of course its possible for a CW or LHW to have success if they have the build and ability to mix it with bigger guys. However in 40 years only one had what I call major success and that was Holyfield. Holyfield was almost 6'3" with a 78" reach and he had great boxing ability.

Marciano didn't have the build of any of the above or any great boxing skill. His only tactic was to slug it out. Why do you need to see how Wilder does with Fury? Fury and Marciano are polar opposites in every category, if Fury beats Wilder that has not reflection on how Marciano would fair.

[Cojimar 1946]

Wilder is conceding roughly 1 inch in height against Tyson Fury and 2 inches in reach. That's hardly a massive gap.

[Ambling Alp II]

Actually 2 inches in height. and the two inches in reach. Guess that is not quite the insurmountable difference. Would be nice to know what that would be.
Going by their last fights, Fury weighed about more 44 pounds Wilder? Surely that has to be insurmountable.
btw- MWilder only out weighed Marciano by about 26 pounds. He is actually closer in weight to Marciano than he is to Fury.

[Ambling Alp II]

Your missing the point my friend. The general consensus seems to be that Marciano could easily beat Wilder and his size wouldn’t be a issue. What I’m saying is Marciano would be a CW today, a small one at that, and only one CW in history has had major success at HW. Holyfield had the height, reach and body frame to add bulk, combined with good boxing ability, so he could compete with the bigger HWs. The smaller HWs in recent times have not only had the physique to be competitive they had combinations of speed, elusiveness, power or good boxing ability. Speed and power is always a dangerous mix.

Tony Bellew fought Haye at HW but always said he wasn’t a HW and neither was Haye. Bellew point blank refused to fight AJ stating he was too big. He said at one point he would fight Wilder and then changed his mind after meeting him and said he could see how big he was and knew he stood no chance. Bellew also said he would fight the biggest of the three, Tyson Fury, but qualified that statement by saying Fury wasn’t a KO puncher so felt he would have more success against him. He also said he wanted the fight straight away to take advantage of Fury’s absence from the ring and wouldn’t fight him later down the line as it was all about “timing”. Bellew isn’t small, he’s 6’3”, but he is a CW not a HW. That’s the difference. You can have good skills like Qawi but if you are naturally a small guy then it gets harder the bigger your opponent naturally is.

Is had major success at heavyweight and ignore the lightheavyweights who skipped the cruiserweight division.
You can't just ignore the light heavyweights who did and simply skipped the cruiserweight division. You don't think Spinks, Moorer, Jones etc. could have picked up a Cruiserweight trinket before winning the heavyweight title if they wanted to?

Moorer and Jones can win the heavyweight title but it's hopeless for Marciano?

Don't really care about Tony Bellew.

As I have explained several times you have to evaluate each fighter in isolation and study why they won. How many would have been a world champ if only one belt existed. Styles make fights.

RJJ picked the easiest fight at HW to get a world title. RJJ was very fast and elusive with very good boxing skill. Ruiz was made for him, thats why he won. Plus he wasn't that much smaller than Ruiz anyway. Notice how RJJ didn't stick at HW. Didn't dominate the division.

Moorer had the build for HW, 6'2" with a 78" reach. He took the easiest route fighting for the WBO belt against a blown up CW (who nearly beat him too) and frankly beat a poor version of Holyfield to win another belt, losing the rematch. Didn't dominate the division.

Spinks was a great fighter. He was fast, awkward and punched in combinations. Also he was almost 6'3" with a 76" reach so a decent size for a HW. Thats why he had success.

Haye was 6'3" with a 78" reach. Fast and punched hard. Thats why he had some success.

So yes of course its possible for a CW or LHW to have success if they have the build and ability to mix it with bigger guys. However in 40 years only one had what I call major success and that was Holyfield. Holyfield was almost 6'3" with a 78" reach and he had great boxing ability.

Marciano didn't have the build of any of the above or any great boxing skill. His only tactic was to slug it out. Why do you need to see how Wilder does with Fury? Fury and Marciano are polar opposites in every category, if Fury beats Wilder that has not reflection on how Marciano would fair.

Styles do not make fights. I know people think tink they said something profound when they say that, but it's not true. They can only influence fights. It can make a bigger difference. if the two fighters are relatively close in a bility. However, if one fighter is much better, he almost always win. He can do things so much better he can overcome "styles".
People only talk styles after the fight.

Being taller and having a longer reach is not a style. The taller guy doesn't always win. If the shorter fighter has more power, has a better chin, is tougher, is smarter, is faster, is harder to hit, has better stamina? He is most likely going to win. He will find a way to get inside the long reach.

Moorer, Spinks , and Jones didn't dominate the division. However, hardly anyone has ever dominated the division when the division was good. Holyfield didn't Lewis, didn't, Bowe didn't. etc. However, they proved yet again that it's ability that wins fights.

The Fury-Wilder fight may shows us something. This is a test. If one of them scorres an impressive win, then we may have something. We may learn if Wilder can take a punch, if his power is the real thing. Can he come up with a Plan B if he has to? Can he dig down deep if he has to to? Is he more than just a guy who bang out stiffs?

This would be far the biggest win for Wilder. If he wins (and looks good in doing so), then maybe he is for real. Or if Fury can look impressive and win it show Fury might have something. (Of course they could both look terrible.) We shall see.

[Cojimar 1946]

I don't think success in one era is any guarantee at all of success in another era.

Tony Galento was a top contender in the late 1930s, whereas Monte Barrett never cracked the top 10 in his era. That doesn't mean that Galento should be favored over Barrett. I doubt Galento would come close to cracking the top 10 in the 90s.

[jamamb]

If we go by the bigger is better is logic, then Wilder has no chance against Fury. He is shorter, has less of a reach, and is lighter.

um, ya, yet again alp totally misrepresents the points ppl are making. how freaking much does it need to be reapeated that its a combination of factors and the extent of them? people are saying its not bigger = automatic win,ppl are saying its height + reach + weight + the huge disparities in those area (rather then merely an inch or two/5 pounds or so)+ the styles and attributes of each fighter (which make it totally different from something like jones vs ruiz)

btw the size disparity between fury and wilder is nothing like that between wilder and marciano

look at pictures of wilder and fury together, theyre practically the same height and have very similar reaches. hardly 9inches in height and 15 inches in reach. and wilder averages about 40 pounds heavier then rock being in shape. wilder has been lighter then several opponents merely because hes leaner, not because hes naturally smaller

[Cojimar 1946]

Wilder seems to be about 6'6 while Fury is about 6'7. Fury has claimed 6'8 3/4 but he looks shorter than the 6'8 listed David Price and no taller than the 6'7 1/2 listed Mariusz Wach so 6'7 seems the most reasonable guess.

[Controversial]

Styles do not make fights. I know people think tink they said something profound when they say that, but it's not true. They can only influence fights. It can make a bigger difference. if the two fighters are relatively close in a bility. However, if one fighter is much better, he almost always win. He can do things so much better he can overcome "styles".
People only talk styles after the fight.

Being taller and having a longer reach is not a style. The taller guy doesn't always win. If the shorter fighter has more power, has a better chin, is tougher, is smarter, is faster, is harder to hit, has better stamina? He is most likely going to win. He will find a way to get inside the long reach.

Moorer, Spinks , and Jones didn't dominate the division. However, hardly anyone has ever dominated the division when the division was good. Holyfield didn't Lewis, didn't, Bowe didn't. etc. However, they proved yet again that it's ability that wins fights.

The Fury-Wilder fight may shows us something. This is a test. If one of them scorres an impressive win, then we may have something. We may learn if Wilder can take a punch, if his power is the real thing. Can he come up with a Plan B if he has to? Can he dig down deep if he has to to? Is he more than just a guy who bang out stiffs?

This would be far the biggest win for Wilder. If he wins (and looks good in doing so), then maybe he is for real. Or if Fury can look impressive and win it show Fury might have something. (Of course they could both look terrible.) We shall see.

Have I not said its ability too? You're nit picking, Spinks style (ability) was suited for fighting Holmes, not Tyson. Fraziers style (ability) was suited for fighting Ali, not Foreman, etc..etc..

Lewis and Holyfield certainly had a lot more success and longevity than Moorer, Spinks, Haye or Jones. Name the best 20 HWs in history would that list include Moorer, Spinks, Haye and Jones, no. I bet it would include Lewis and Holyfield though.

I have said numerous times that size isn't everything. You keep repeating that though. Size with ability or extremes in power does make a difference though.

Everyone has still dodged the question about why the vast majority of CWs in its 40 year history have never had great success in the HW division. Most when they tried were beaten as soon as they faced a good HW thats why.

The best guys Marciano beat were not big, most 6 foot and under, so he could overwhelm them with his style. Even then he was often outboxed or it was close on the cards. Louis was the biggest but not the fighter he once was.

With the exception to Louis these guys would be CWs today, maybe LHWs in some cases.

Charles was 6'0" with a 73" reach and 187lbs (13.3 stone)
Walcott was 6'0" with a 74" reach and 197lbs (14 stone)
Moore was 5'11" with a 76" reach and 188lbs (13.4 stone)
LaStarza was 6'0" with a 74" reach and 184lbs (13.1 stone)
Cockell was 5'11" with a 71" reach and 205lb (14.6 stone)
Louis was 6'2" with a 76" reach and 214lbs (15.3 stone)

[keithmoonhangover]

Your missing the point my friend. The general consensus seems to be that Marciano could easily beat Wilder and his size wouldn’t be a issue. What I’m saying is Marciano would be a CW today, a small one at that, and only one CW in history has had major success at HW. Holyfield had the height, reach and body frame to add bulk, combined with good boxing ability, so he could compete with the bigger HWs. The smaller HWs in recent times have not only had the physique to be competitive they had combinations of speed, elusiveness, power or good boxing ability. Speed and power is always a dangerous mix.

Tony Bellew fought Haye at HW but always said he wasn’t a HW and neither was Haye. Bellew point blank refused to fight AJ stating he was too big. He said at one point he would fight Wilder and then changed his mind after meeting him and said he could see how big he was and knew he stood no chance. Bellew also said he would fight the biggest of the three, Tyson Fury, but qualified that statement by saying Fury wasn’t a KO puncher so felt he would have more success against him. He also said he wanted the fight straight away to take advantage of Fury’s absence from the ring and wouldn’t fight him later down the line as it was all about “timing”. Bellew isn’t small, he’s 6’3”, but he is a CW not a HW. That’s the difference. You can have good skills like Qawi but if you are naturally a small guy then it gets harder the bigger your opponent naturally is.

Is had major success at heavyweight and ignore the lightheavyweights who skipped the cruiserweight division.
You can't just ignore the light heavyweights who did and simply skipped the cruiserweight division. You don't think Spinks, Moorer, Jones etc. could have picked up a Cruiserweight trinket before winning the heavyweight title if they wanted to?

Moorer and Jones can win the heavyweight title but it's hopeless for Marciano?

Don't really care about Tony Bellew.

As I have explained several times you have to evaluate each fighter in isolation and study why they won. How many would have been a world champ if only one belt existed. Styles make fights.

RJJ picked the easiest fight at HW to get a world title. RJJ was very fast and elusive with very good boxing skill. Ruiz was made for him, thats why he won. Plus he wasn't that much smaller than Ruiz anyway. Notice how RJJ didn't stick at HW. Didn't dominate the division.

Moorer had the build for HW, 6'2" with a 78" reach. He took the easiest route fighting for the WBO belt against a blown up CW (who nearly beat him too) and frankly beat a poor version of Holyfield to win another belt, losing the rematch. Didn't dominate the division.

Spinks was a great fighter. He was fast, awkward and punched in combinations. Also he was almost 6'3" with a 76" reach so a decent size for a HW. Thats why he had success.

Haye was 6'3" with a 78" reach. Fast and punched hard. Thats why he had some success.

So yes of course its possible for a CW or LHW to have success if they have the build and ability to mix it with bigger guys. However in 40 years only one had what I call major success and that was Holyfield. Holyfield was almost 6'3" with a 78" reach and he had great boxing ability.

Marciano didn't have the build of any of the above or any great boxing skill. His only tactic was to slug it out. Why do you need to see how Wilder does with Fury? Fury and Marciano are polar opposites in every category, if Fury beats Wilder that has not reflection on how Marciano would fair.

I get that styles make fights, but how is that applicable here? How do you know how Wilder would deal with Marciano based on Deontay's style?

[Controversial]

Is had major success at heavyweight and ignore the lightheavyweights who skipped the cruiserweight division.
You can't just ignore the light heavyweights who did and simply skipped the cruiserweight division. You don't think Spinks, Moorer, Jones etc. could have picked up a Cruiserweight trinket before winning the heavyweight title if they wanted to?

Moorer and Jones can win the heavyweight title but it's hopeless for Marciano?

Don't really care about Tony Bellew.

As I have explained several times you have to evaluate each fighter in isolation and study why they won. How many would have been a world champ if only one belt existed. Styles make fights.

RJJ picked the easiest fight at HW to get a world title. RJJ was very fast and elusive with very good boxing skill. Ruiz was made for him, thats why he won. Plus he wasn't that much smaller than Ruiz anyway. Notice how RJJ didn't stick at HW. Didn't dominate the division.

Moorer had the build for HW, 6'2" with a 78" reach. He took the easiest route fighting for the WBO belt against a blown up CW (who nearly beat him too) and frankly beat a poor version of Holyfield to win another belt, losing the rematch. Didn't dominate the division.

Spinks was a great fighter. He was fast, awkward and punched in combinations. Also he was almost 6'3" with a 76" reach so a decent size for a HW. Thats why he had success.

Haye was 6'3" with a 78" reach. Fast and punched hard. Thats why he had some success.

So yes of course its possible for a CW or LHW to have success if they have the build and ability to mix it with bigger guys. However in 40 years only one had what I call major success and that was Holyfield. Holyfield was almost 6'3" with a 78" reach and he had great boxing ability.

Marciano didn't have the build of any of the above or any great boxing skill. His only tactic was to slug it out. Why do you need to see how Wilder does with Fury? Fury and Marciano are polar opposites in every category, if Fury beats Wilder that has not reflection on how Marciano would fair.

I get that styles make fights, but how is that applicable here? How do you know how Wilder would deal with Marciano based on Deontay's style?

What makes you think Marciano would have success against someone the size of Wilder with his speed and power? On the balance of things I would favour someone with all the physical and weight advantages combined with one punch finishing power. Marciano got hit plenty, he was no Mayweather, it wouldn't take long for Wilder to land a right hand on him. Marciano walked forward, that was his style. Marciano was never hit by someone of that size with KO power and as is proved in recent years small and light HWs haven't had success for a long time in the HW division. That isn't coincidental.

Of course one punch can finish any fight so could Marciano knock Wilder out, yes possibly. Anything is possible in boxing otherwise there would never be any upsets. However my money would be on Wilder.

[Quantrax]

The Rock was great in his time, but today's HW's are just too big and athletic.

Athletic?! Wtf

[Duran1970]

Oh, yes logic. Like just assuming a bigger guy would win. Scales and tape measures are all we need. Because in real life that always works. No reason to actually think here.

You keep repeating this. No one has said size and tape measurements is all we need. I'd fancy Marciano to have more success with Muhammed Ali and Ali's bigger than Rocky and a better fighter than Wilder.

Go back and red what Cojimar, Dr. Duke, jmamb Tony 1244, jcs 80s, Duran 1970, said. They all brought up size right off of the bat and dismissed Marciano.

Did you actually read my post???? I take Marciano all day to beat Wilder....

[Yuzo]

I'm sorry, but in Marciano his debut he weighted 192 pounds, all fights after, except for one, he was even lighter then that, he's under 5ft11.
If you put those numbers to modern perspective, you could at most compare it to... Well not even cruiserweight, Damien Hooper perhaps? Nah, even Damien Hooper is taller.

jack dempsey said, "what everyone forgets is that marciano can punch harder with a right hand than any modern-day heavyweight." so remember, when you say marciano was only 192 pounds, when he hit you with a right hand, he hit you with all of his body weight: all 192 pounds. marciano may be a small heavyweight. he was not a small puncher.

On the balance of things I would favour someone with all the physical and weight advantages combined with one punch finishing power. Marciano got hit plenty, he was no Mayweather, it wouldn't take long for Wilder to land a right hand on him.

well, he had to hit johann duhaupas with everything, and i think, he can take out marciano with one shot, but suppose he cant, and the way he had to hit duhaupas with everything is the way he has to try to beat marciano.

then i think any narrative which does not contain marciano being knocked out by one right hand probably favors marciano. he gets to set the pace, because he doesnt stop punching, and he punched when you punched, so the more punches you throw, to keep up with the pace, the more lucky he gets, because now you are playing with fire.

[keithmoonhangover]

As I have explained several times you have to evaluate each fighter in isolation and study why they won. How many would have been a world champ if only one belt existed. Styles make fights.

RJJ picked the easiest fight at HW to get a world title. RJJ was very fast and elusive with very good boxing skill. Ruiz was made for him, thats why he won. Plus he wasn't that much smaller than Ruiz anyway. Notice how RJJ didn't stick at HW. Didn't dominate the division.

Moorer had the build for HW, 6'2" with a 78" reach. He took the easiest route fighting for the WBO belt against a blown up CW (who nearly beat him too) and frankly beat a poor version of Holyfield to win another belt, losing the rematch. Didn't dominate the division.

Spinks was a great fighter. He was fast, awkward and punched in combinations. Also he was almost 6'3" with a 76" reach so a decent size for a HW. Thats why he had success.

Haye was 6'3" with a 78" reach. Fast and punched hard. Thats why he had some success.

So yes of course its possible for a CW or LHW to have success if they have the build and ability to mix it with bigger guys. However in 40 years only one had what I call major success and that was Holyfield. Holyfield was almost 6'3" with a 78" reach and he had great boxing ability.

Marciano didn't have the build of any of the above or any great boxing skill. His only tactic was to slug it out. Why do you need to see how Wilder does with Fury? Fury and Marciano are polar opposites in every category, if Fury beats Wilder that has not reflection on how Marciano would fair.

I get that styles make fights, but how is that applicable here? How do you know how Wilder would deal with Marciano based on Deontay's style?

What makes you think Marciano would have success against someone the size of Wilder with his speed and power? On the balance of things I would favour someone with all the physical and weight advantages combined with one punch finishing power. Marciano got hit plenty, he was no Mayweather, it wouldn't take long for Wilder to land a right hand on him. Marciano walked forward, that was his style. Marciano was never hit by someone of that size with KO power and as is proved in recent years small and light HWs haven't had success for a long time in the HW division. That isn't coincidental.

Of course one punch can finish any fight so could Marciano knock Wilder out, yes possibly. Anything is possible in boxing otherwise there would never be any upsets. However my money would be on Wilder.

I'm not anti-Wilder, I'm a fan actually, but I think his power is highly overrated at the moment. It took him nine rounds to put Molina away, eleven for Duhaupas, nine for Szpilka, eight for a shot Areolla.

[Controversial]

I get that styles make fights, but how is that applicable here? How do you know how Wilder would deal with Marciano based on Deontay's style?

What makes you think Marciano would have success against someone the size of Wilder with his speed and power? On the balance of things I would favour someone with all the physical and weight advantages combined with one punch finishing power. Marciano got hit plenty, he was no Mayweather, it wouldn't take long for Wilder to land a right hand on him. Marciano walked forward, that was his style. Marciano was never hit by someone of that size with KO power and as is proved in recent years small and light HWs haven't had success for a long time in the HW division. That isn't coincidental.

Of course one punch can finish any fight so could Marciano knock Wilder out, yes possibly. Anything is possible in boxing otherwise there would never be any upsets. However my money would be on Wilder.

I'm not anti-Wilder, I'm a fan actually, but I think his power is highly overrated at the moment. It took him nine rounds to put Molina away, eleven for Duhaupas, nine for Szpilka, eight for a shot Areolla.

And Marciano took many rounds to beat Louis, Charles, Walcott (1st), Cockell, LaStarza and Moore hitting them hundreds of times in process. When Wilder connects properly its normally fight over, unlike AJ he normally leaves guys out for the count, that’s a sign of real power.

[keithmoonhangover]

What makes you think Marciano would have success against someone the size of Wilder with his speed and power? On the balance of things I would favour someone with all the physical and weight advantages combined with one punch finishing power. Marciano got hit plenty, he was no Mayweather, it wouldn't take long for Wilder to land a right hand on him. Marciano walked forward, that was his style. Marciano was never hit by someone of that size with KO power and as is proved in recent years small and light HWs haven't had success for a long time in the HW division. That isn't coincidental.

Of course one punch can finish any fight so could Marciano knock Wilder out, yes possibly. Anything is possible in boxing otherwise there would never be any upsets. However my money would be on Wilder.

I'm not anti-Wilder, I'm a fan actually, but I think his power is highly overrated at the moment. It took him nine rounds to put Molina away, eleven for Duhaupas, nine for Szpilka, eight for a shot Areolla.

And Marciano took many rounds to beat Louis, Charles, Walcott (1st), Cockell, LaStarza and Moore hitting them hundreds of times in process. When Wilder connects properly its normally fight over, unlike AJ he normally leaves guys out for the count, that’s a sign of real power.

I didn't say anything about Marciano's power, not one word. You're a bit sensitive about this aren't you.

[Controversial]

I'm not anti-Wilder, I'm a fan actually, but I think his power is highly overrated at the moment. It took him nine rounds to put Molina away, eleven for Duhaupas, nine for Szpilka, eight for a shot Areolla.

And Marciano took many rounds to beat Louis, Charles, Walcott (1st), Cockell, LaStarza and Moore hitting them hundreds of times in process. When Wilder connects properly its normally fight over, unlike AJ he normally leaves guys out for the count, that’s a sign of real power.

I didn't say anything about Marciano's power, not one word. You're a bit sensitive about this aren't you.

Eh? You replied to one of my posts, I just replied back. You said Wilders power is overated as he took many rounds to beat some fighters, all I said was Marciano also took several rounds to beat some fighters too, small guys as well.

Who do you think punches harder, Wilder or Marciano?

[oogiebe]

The Rock was great in his time, but today's HW's are just too big and athletic.

Athletic?! Wtf

Big guys, back in the day, weren't very athletic or coordinated. Today, big men are more athletic and skilled. Abe Simon; Primo Carnera, etc. were just big. Today top HW's are big and skilled and more coordinated. One can't compare boxers from the various eras, as average size and weight has increased substantially. Marciano at 185 LBS and barely 5' 10" would stand little chance against a 6' 5" 220 - 250 LB current HW. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Controversial]

On the balance of things I would favour someone with all the physical and weight advantages combined with one punch finishing power. Marciano got hit plenty, he was no Mayweather, it wouldn't take long for Wilder to land a right hand on him.

well, he had to hit johann duhaupas with everything, and i think, he can take out marciano with one shot, but suppose he cant, and the way he had to hit duhaupas with everything is the way he has to try to beat marciano.

It’s a myth that Marciano could just hit someone and it was fight over. Look how many rounds he had to pound on Moore and Cockell. He wore guys down by clubbing them to defeat and these were not big guys.