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Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:22
by Onetimeonly
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:14
You forgot waving his arms in the air. Doesn't that score point?
Of course, I think wilders right really was injured. Fury is much harder to hit than I gave him credit for, but if he eats a flush right in the rematch it's curtains.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:25
by oogiebe
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:22
Of course, I think wilders right really was injured. Fury is much harder to hit than I gave him credit for, but if he eats a flush right in the rematch it's curtains.
Couldn't agree more. Big difference in trajectory on the straight right that nailed Breazeale and the somewhat wide rights the Wilder threw vs Fury. I hope we get them in the ring to get a definitive win.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:29
by HomicideHenry
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑08 Jun 2019, 12:22
Eh? So if Fury beat them all on points, he still wouldn’t be the best because he didn’t stop any of them?
People who think kayos are the only thing that matter crack me up, cus these are the same people who'll say Ali was the best but even he didn't knock out everybody and their brother.
This is a scientific sport, not a toughman contest. And besides, what of Wilder's own low punch rate against Fury? I'm more impressed in the fact Fury makes all these confident gunslingers suddenly gun-shy. He makes them second-guess themselves.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:31
by oogiebe
Based on recent RESULTS and opponents, Wilder is number one.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:32
by Onetimeonly
What about wilders low output? Has anyone said wilder schooled fury?
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:34
by jamamb
eh not really sure about wilder having an injury that caused him not to beat fury, fury is just way better defensively and more akward then anyone hed faced. the 'staring contest' is something fury opponents often go into with fury. wilders stamina also looked worse then it ever had, and his accuracy was bad too for what he did throw. also looked psychologically not confident for most of the fight. usually hes brash
i think most of this is down to fury . they are about the same.. i had fury winning but it was close, but i dont think wilder was at any lower a condition then fury. fury could also get in better shape i think if we are looking for potential improvements. he could win the rematch with a better finish or he could get caught and taken out
the rematch is the second most interesting fight at hw that should get made
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:41
by jamamb
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:31
Based on recent RESULTS and opponents, Wilder is number one.
ruiz over aj is by far the best recent result, it depends how people rank. i can see cases for different guys. personally i think with aj losing wilder and fury are at the top. i myself thought fury won so i undersantd ppl rating him ahead of wilder. just going on official results, wilder has the best recent record over several fights (aj has the best wins but the l drops him), but ruiz the best single win by far
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:45
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:41
ruiz over aj is by far the best recent result, it depends how people rank. i can see cases for different guys. personally i think with aj losing wilder and fury are at the top. i myself thought fury won so i undersantd ppl rating him ahead of wilder. just going on official results, wilder has the best recent record over several fights (aj has the best wins but the l drops him), but ruiz the best single win by far
I say Wilder over Ortiz by KO; Breazeale by 1 rd KO; and the draw with Fury is by far better. Single win I'd agree with you. But maybe Fury and Wilder draw was the best result based on the two of them being the best HW's.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:45
by jamamb
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:25
Couldn't agree more. Big difference in trajectory on the straight right that nailed Breazeale and the somewhat wide rights the Wilder threw vs Fury. I hope we get them in the ring to get a definitive win.
why would a hand injury mean he can throw looping but not straight? breazeale is just a punch bag, totally opposite of fury
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:46
by jamamb
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:45
I say Wilder over Ortiz by KO; Breazeale by 1 rd KO; and the draw with Fury is by far better. Single win I'd agree with you. But maybe Fury and Wilder draw was the best result based on the two of them being the best HW's.
better then what? as i said, on cumulative recent record its wilder, on single win easily ruiz, and looking at what actualy happened in the ring i defo can see furys case
didnt you say on the night that fury defo won that btw? now its like explaining it away....
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:47
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:45
why would a hand injury mean he can throw looping but not straight? breazeale is just a punch bag, totally opposite of fury
It was an elbow problem. He had surgery on it and it looked stiff to me to the point he didn't straighten his arm when throwing. Also, I'm in no way comparing Fury to Breazeale. I'm looking at punch angle.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:48
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:46
better then what? as i said, on cumulative recent record its wilder, on single win easily ruiz, and looking at what actualy happened in the ring i defo can see furys case
didnt you say on the night that fury defo won that btw?
I know what you said. I'm saying his last three outweighs Ruiz's one. What I thought of the outcome of the Fury/Wilder fight doesn't negate the official outcome.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:49
by jamamb
he still threw straights vs fury, so it was good enough to use. and btw with a moving opponent, you are often forced into looping shots to try to catch them as they go to the side, vs a stationary punch bag like dom you dont need that
kinda sounds like excuses imo
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:50
by jamamb
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:48
I know what you said. I'm saying his last three outweighs Ruiz's one. What I thought of the outcome of the Fury/Wilder fight doesn't negate the official outcome.
ya, i guess it depends how much weight you give to what you actually saw, vs how other men scored it
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:51
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:49
he still threw straights vs fury, so it was good enough to use. and btw with a moving opponent, you are often forced into looping shots to try to catch them as they go to the side, vs a stationary punch bag like dom you dont need that
kinda sounds like excuses imo
Maybe. But I thought the same from round one when I was watching. Could've been Wilder just wasn't being disciplined and got frustrated by so many misses and thus got, well wild. I'm really looking forward to a rematch. So many unanswered questions for me.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:54
by jamamb
thats what happens when you face a super akward, defensively good fighter who is moving a bunch rather then standing straight (right) in front of you.. its no fluke that so many of furys opponents have there output drop massively. remember ppl saying wlad just let fury win. then we all counted on wilder being far more aggressive (i did as well) but he essentially fought the same passive way, just that he landed 2 good enough shots with his power to score the kds and salvage it on the cards
rematch is still like a year off, surprised they announced it as done so far ahead
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:58
by Nondescript
Boxingcutsman wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 08:41
I’ve always championed fury as no.1 on here and in the gyms and locally to me but been past off with people thinking I’m biased as him and his uncle peter are fiends of mine, yes fury is and always has been for a long time the best heavyweight in the world, I’ve been a fan of Ruiz for at least 6 yrs + he’s got imo the fastest hands, best combination puncher, mobility and fundamental boxing ability in heavyweight boxing and the best chin as yet again he’s showed last night, I’ve always thought the only thing that would let him down would be he’s not big enough against the big big elite heavyweights, but I was wrong about that, I think he falls just short against fury cuz of Tyson’s Movement, foot speed and size but other than that I would back him to beat Tyson, and imo he smashes wilder to bits, his brave as they come Ruiz and knows his fit, got a great chin and fast hands so will open up with you, again imo unlike any other heavyweight about at the minute knowing his shorter shots and fast combinations will get you
I think Wilder knocks Ruiz out cold. Remember this is a guy that also lost to Parker who I don't rate particularly highly.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:59
by jamamb
thats the confusing part, because going by the past aj shouldve won easily too, id think fury and wilder and maybe a good few others would beat ruiz but hes suddenly a very interestign fighter
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:00
by Nondescript
Steveh583 wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 08:06
The shot he dropped Dominic B with would stop anyone imo.
I actually think he may have missed his chance at ko'ing fury. Not sure he will find him in the rematch. But he'll always carry that threat.
I agree. However he'd never catch Fury like that though because Furys feet and his upper body is too good to be caught clean like Breazeale, who is as stiff as a board.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:00
by Nondescript
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:59
thats the confusing part, because going by the past aj shouldve won easily too, id think fury and wilder and maybe a good few others would beat ruiz but hes suddenly a very interestign fighter
I agree. Boxing maths isn't clear cut I know. I just feel like Wilder's punches would trouble Ruiz in a way that Joshuas on the whole didn't.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:01
by oogiebe
Nondescript wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:00
I agree. However he'd never catch Fury like that though because Furys feet and his upper body is too good to be caught clean like Breazeale, who is as stiff as a board.
Can't say never.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:04
by Nondescript
stujones wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 13:41
1 - Fury
2 - Wilder
3 - Ruiz
4 - Joshua
5 - Whyte
6 - Parker
7 - Ortiz
8 - Povetkin
9 - Pulev
10 - Kownacki
Awaiting a return from Klitchsko and a heavyweight debut of Usyk - who both would move well into the top ten should they win.
I'm not sure id have Parker and Whyte above Ortiz, but until they all fight each other (which won't happen let's be honest) we won't know.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:06
by jamamb
i have whyte above ort and joe below
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:07
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:06
i have whyte above ort and joe below
Me too. Although they would make a crackin' scrape.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:09
by Nondescript
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:01
Can't say never.
True! Let's be honest though, Breazeale was a sitting duck lol