BoxRec

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 16:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 06:23Khabib is a professional fighter, he would ruin anybody on here in any form of combat using striking. Your amateur experience wouldn't count for Jack unless you are currently competing.

I'm not saying I could beat him, just that I wouldn't be fearful enough to dismiss a 4-rounder for decent journeyman coin (so long as I didn't bugger myself training for it). Whereas I wouldn't go near oldman Mosley, who landed a shot on Mayweather that McGregor could only dream of. I'd fight Pacquiao in a wrestling match but wouldn't go near him in boxing, and so on.

I just don't appreciate a lot of the punching in UFC (Derrick Lewis as a heavy, anyone?), and while I realise that the efficacy of punching's compromised by the nature of the MMA beast, for that reason it's not my thing. Personally I'd rather watch Khabib in pure wrestling matches, but obviously that's not as lucrative.

ALI wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 16:20Nobody gave McGregor a prayer before their fight, and his good performance is written of by many as Mayweather just playing with him.

Every non-boxing person I know backed McGregor to bully the older, smaller man, coming off a little worse on skills but triumphing through toughness and higher output. A modern Collins. I think his training partner Malignaggi would've been a fair fight for him.

I do agree that Mayweather was wary enough to let him tire rather than force anything and start making mistakes or tiring himself. But that's Floyd, and his aggression towards Ortiz is the only exception I can recall in the past decade.

Nobody who know anything about boxing gave McGregor an iota of a chance. Maybe the drunken goons who idolize McGregor did, but they'd fancy his chances against godzilla.

thechump wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 09:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 03:52
That's 15 years ago

Ye i know,Randy was still successful tho and stsnd up wasnt his game.

That's one fighter. Oh and couture was a proponent of dirty boxing

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑02 Feb 2020, 08:02

thechump wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 09:53
Ye i know,Randy was still successful tho and stsnd up wasnt his game.

That's one fighter. Oh and couture was a proponent of dirty boxing

Cain Velasquez Jonny Hendricks Brock Lesnar Ken Shamrock Royce Gracie Dan Severn Dan Henderson Chris Weidman all successful UFC fighters with wrestling background.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑01 Feb 2020, 17:53 this is comical stuff here. Boxrec is better than this. Mayweather CARRIED McGregor.

100% correct. A rematch is stupid talk. leagues apart.

In MMA however, Mayweather would never be carried as it wouldn’t be accepted (certainly not in the UFC) and he would be truly ruined in double-quick time. Perhaps that is why UFC is doing so well, it’s credible. The best fight the best and try to end each other in clinical fashion. There is more honesty about the UFC than boxing. Far less politics.

I don't think anyone's arguing that most boxers wouldn't struggle in UFC and vice versa, or that UFC's matchmaking isn't leagues ahead of boxing's right now; nor even that UFC's becoming much bigger if it isn't already.

But as to preference, boxing's rule limitations have, over a century, led to a sport where it's easy to recognise and appreciate ever-refined skills. UFC's a halfway house between no-rules and more regimented orgs, and for that I can't tell if its current fighters are as good as it'll get, because I still get the sense of an untidy and unfinished discipline. I tend to think a few more rules would do it good, but it's likely there's nowt much wrong and I just don't dig it.

[edit]

The main thing that puts me off UFC is the non-grappling ground game when someone's getting mashed on, positioned at a serious disadvantage, and they can't fight dirty to even the odds. If you can't bite or gouge or scratch or throttle or rabbit punch... Feck it — pull hair!

You just have to lie there and take it, and as the aggressor in that situ I'd like to be gentlemanly enough to not do what has to be done to help ensure the win. But obviously the last thing I'd want is for someone I'd been smashing up for free to get a chance to come back at me, so I'd do it. I think it's ugly.

If fighters learn a good ground game then they can defend themselves or even do a lot of damage when on their backs

A while back I saw a KO from an up kick from the back.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑02 Feb 2020, 21:06 If fighters learn a good ground game then they can defend themselves or even do a lot of damage when on their backs

A while back I saw a KO from an up kick from the back.

Its a bit different to boxing thats for sure, got to love it though.

From personal experience i know it can take a bit of time to get into it. I could easily have overlooked it my entire life. Glad i finally did give it the time of day, with the state boxing is currently in, it gives me something else to watch and i'm really enjoying it. There is very little not to like about the UFC and the way it delivers itself as a sport.

Khabibs team have just offered Mayweather a 12 round fight. 11 rounds of boxing and 1 round of MMA.

Seems very fair IMO. Of course it will never happen, but if it did? Could Floyd get him out of there inside 11 rounds, you would think so but its no forgone conclusion at this stage in his career. If he did not, we all know for sure what would happen in those final 3 minutes. It would be a slaughter. A lot of people would pay good money to see Floyd getting the life choked out of him.

Nice little publicity stunt from team Khabib, i like it.

ALI wrote: ↑03 Feb 2020, 05:43 Khabibs team have just offered Mayweather a 12 round fight. 11 rounds of boxing and 1 round of MMA.

Seems very fair IMO. Of course it will never happen, but if it did? Could Floyd get him out of there inside 11 rounds, you would think so but its no forgone conclusion at this stage in his career. If he did not, we all know for sure what would happen in those final 3 minutes. It would be a slaughter. A lot of people would pay good money to see Floyd getting the life choked out of him.

Nice little publicity stunt from team Khabib, i like it.

Its crazy to think how the bookies might price up the odds for such a fight, especially the round betting. Khabib by KO in round 12 would probably be odds on lol.

Looking at Khabibs footwork, Mayweather could realistically just walk him down and get him out of there in one round.

Anyone who pays to watch Mayweather beat MMA fighters up only has themselves to blame. I watch the big UFC cards. MMA cards are usually more competitive. 80 percent of boxing cards on a show these days the away fighter only got 10% chance of winning.

I don't watch much MMA but I've read all the comments on this thread and I find it a fascinating debate. There's no doubt that MMA is on the rise but maybe the problem for boxing is, not that MMA is surpassing it but that boxing itself is regressing?

In response to the original question, in the UK I still see MMA quite a bit behind boxing as it just doesn't seem to have that mainstream appeal. Whether that changes in time, I guess we'll see.

On a personal level, I doubt I'll ever get to the stage when I enjoy MMA more than boxing but I can understand those boxing fans that are becoming disillusioned.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑02 Feb 2020, 21:06If fighters learn a good ground game then they can defend themselves or even do a lot of damage when on their backs

I don't know how much technical evolution's left on the table under the current rules, and we don't blame the rules when an incompetent boxer's in danger of serious injury.

Maybe it'll become unusual to see UFC fighters in trouble on the ground from strikes, but I've seen enough beatdowns to want to ensure wider technical knowledge if the rules aren't tweaked. As I mentioned, Cerrone turning away was on him, but I don't like G&P when it's clear one fighter can't fight back effectively without cheating, because most of these guys are too proud to tap if the ref doesn't step in. Which he often does, TBF.

ALI wrote: ↑03 Feb 2020, 05:43It would be a slaughter. A lot of people would pay good money to see Floyd getting the life choked out of him.

He'd get a breather to change gloves, and while I'd back Khabib to be the fitter man, he'd burn so much more energy than Mayweather during those boxing rounds. And also, UFC fighters are trying to win, whereas Mayweather would aim to stalemate on the ground, forcing the ref to choose the winner if successful.

They'd have to agree a maximum time limit for no-action groundwork.

Mayweather is as fit as a fiddle, he has always trained like a spartan.

Age difference, innit. Maybe Khabib's not as fit as we figure?

Given his background, though, he must've learnt to relax to his conserve energy as a yoot. Then again, mastering one form of stress ain't mastering another. Toney went a couple of untroubled minutes with Couture until they reached the cage.

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑03 Feb 2020, 17:00

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑02 Feb 2020, 21:06If fighters learn a good ground game then they can defend themselves or even do a lot of damage when on their backs

I don't know how much technical evolution's left on the table under the current rules, and we don't blame the rules when an incompetent boxer's in danger of serious injury.

Maybe it'll become unusual to see UFC fighters in trouble on the ground from strikes, but I've seen enough beatdowns to want to ensure wider technical knowledge if the rules aren't tweaked. As I mentioned, Cerrone turning away was on him, but I don't like G&P when it's clear one fighter can't fight back effectively without cheating, because most of these guys are too proud to tap if the ref doesn't step in. Which he often does, TBF.

ALI wrote: ↑03 Feb 2020, 05:43It would be a slaughter. A lot of people would pay good money to see Floyd getting the life choked out of him.

He'd get a breather to change gloves, and while I'd back Khabib to be the fitter man, he'd burn so much more energy than Mayweather during those boxing rounds. And also, UFC fighters are trying to win, whereas Mayweather would aim to stalemate on the ground, forcing the ref to choose the winner if successful.

They'd have to agree a maximum time limit for no-action groundwork.

Sorry mate, you really don’t know or appreciate just how good UFC fighters are on the ground let alone the greatest ever ground and pounder in the form of Khabib. Mayweather may well aim to stalemate on the ground but he’d realise within 0.5 seconds that he’d have fcuk all say or affect on the outcome with Khabib regardless of his intent.

And actually, most fighters taken to the floor by Khabib simply try to survive as they literally can’t compete with him let alone win on the ground. He is a phenom at 155 lbs. He can competently wrestle and control high quality wrestlers weighing over 200+ lbs and regularly does so in his training camps.

Khabib’s skill and technique on the ground is something else. He is also incredibly strong and his conditioning is such that he is relentless.

Don’t watch much UFC but remember the early days when there was no weight class and it was far more brutal than it is now

Terminator666 wrote: ↑04 Feb 2020, 15:11 Don’t watch much UFC but remember the early days when there was no weight class and it was far more brutal than it is now

I used to think ‘those were the days’ but truth be told a lot of the classics from back then we’re scrappy brawls compared to what we see now.

liamlion wrote: ↑03 Feb 2020, 18:33Mayweather may well aim to stalemate on the ground but he’d realise within 0.5 seconds that he’d have fcuk all say or affect on the outcome with Khabib regardless of his intent.

By successful, I was referring to the ref allowing no action should Mayweather be able to neutralise, as Toney did for a while against Couture. Mayweather wouldn't be competing on anything like even terms otherwise, and for sure he'd be doing really well to establish neutral on the ground.

But then how many minutes did McGregor last on the ground against Khabib? McGregor's obviously a lot better at that than Mayweather, but he's not noted for it, and we know his strength endurance isn't the best. Toney went 3 minutes in poor shape, even by his standards. That said, it's not hard to imagine Khabib felling Mayweather with kicks and mounting at an angle Floyd can't handle, ending the fight with a swift sub.

We probably all agree that Mayweather wins if he goes first, else Khabib if he does. They could offer something like two sets of 5 for Mayweather, with Khabib's round in the middle. I'd rather watch Khabib fight Golovkin that way.

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑04 Feb 2020, 17:07

liamlion wrote: ↑03 Feb 2020, 18:33Mayweather may well aim to stalemate on the ground but he’d realise within 0.5 seconds that he’d have fcuk all say or affect on the outcome with Khabib regardless of his intent.

By successful, I was referring to the ref allowing no action should Mayweather be able to neutralise, as Toney did for a while against Couture. Mayweather wouldn't be competing on anything like even terms otherwise, and for sure he'd be doing really well to establish neutral on the ground.

But then how many minutes did McGregor last on the ground against Khabib? McGregor's obviously a lot better at that than Mayweather, but he's not noted for it, and we know his strength endurance isn't the best. Toney went 3 minutes in poor shape, even by his standards. That said, it's not hard to imagine Khabib felling Mayweather with kicks and mounting at an angle Floyd can't handle, ending the fight with a swift sub.

We probably all agree that Mayweather wins if he goes first, else Khabib if he does. They could offer something like two sets of 5 for Mayweather, with Khabib's round in the middle. I'd rather watch Khabib fight Golovkin that way.

Dreamland mate, truly.

Well now we gotta see it, right?!

ALI wrote: ↑03 Feb 2020, 05:43 Khabibs team have just offered Mayweather a 12 round fight. 11 rounds of boxing and 1 round of MMA.

Seems very fair IMO. Of course it will never happen, but if it did? Could Floyd get him out of there inside 11 rounds, you would think so but its no forgone conclusion at this stage in his career. If he did not, we all know for sure what would happen in those final 3 minutes. It would be a slaughter. A lot of people would pay good money to see Floyd getting the life choked out of him.

Nice little publicity stunt from team Khabib, i like it.

Conor for all his faults is at least a striker so boxing Floyd made some sort of sense, whilst Khabib's striking is terrible, even by MMA standards. The only success he has with his punches is all setup by the threat of his takedown. Take that away and there is no way he'd survive eleven rounds with Mayweather to reach the 12th MMA Round.

Khabib should be more focused on the upcoming Tony Ferguson fight, who's undefeated in his last 12 UFC fights & a genuine threat. If he gets by that I'd rather see him face Justin Gaethje, rematch Conor or step up to 170 rather than freakshow boxing fights.

What happened to Michael Pages boxing career- he seemed to get quite a bit of hype on an Eddie Hearn show I think, then went back to MMA

Terminator666 wrote: ↑06 Feb 2020, 17:34 What happened to Michael Pages boxing career- he seemed to get quite a bit of hype on an Eddie Hearn show I think, then went back to MMA

Might of rethought it after he got flattened in mma.

ALI wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 18:09

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑30 Jan 2020, 14:49 I think Jon Jones is going to take a hiding and lose next weekend.

I agree with all of that, other than Reyes giving Jones a hiding. Reyes has looked great thus far, he is dangerous for sure, but Jones is a special kind of talent, and i expect him to shine against the style of Reyes, i think it will bring out the best in him. I think he will bust up Reyes and stop him. Jones KO is my pick.

If you really fancy Reyes strongly, consider there are a lot of interesting betting options with enticing odds on offer. Could be worth a punt then.

He did not give Jones a hiding, but you certainly forecasted the fight better than me. Reyes was excellent, much better than i thought, Jones knows how to keep his composure but he was not comfortable in their at all. Those first 3 rounds were all Reyes. 3 to 2 for Reyes would have been a fair result. No way did Jones win that fight, and that 4 to 1 score!!!

Jones has looked far from invincable in his last two fights. Had Santos not done his knee in, he could have won that, and i want to see him get the rematch, as i do Reyes.