What problems did he cause ?
The knockdown ? It’s a fight, you can’t have a shower and not get wet, your gonna get hit, that’s not a problem.
The knockdowns were what meant he didn’t win the fight clearly on points weren’t they, I mean without them he’d have won? I’d say that means they were just a little bit of a problem.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 24 May 2020, 16:16
by kevo
banjo wrote: ↑24 May 2020, 07:49
Maybe not an unpopular opinion, I'm not sure, but I think Ricky Hatton pissed away what could have been an even more successful career with his excessive food and alcohol consumption as part of his "man of the people" routine.
I wonder how much of his training regime was wasted on getting him back into shape when he could have been using that time developing his boxing skills.
He pissed a good chunk of it away defending that stupid fcking WBU title
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 25 May 2020, 23:59
by Grilling Machine
Righto!
— Vitali was better than Fury
— Francis would've beaten Calzaghe in '97
— Mosley was better in his prime than Mayweather
— McCallum was the best middleweight in the mid '80s
— McCall had the physical attributes to have been the greatest heavyweight
— Hide and Mason would've been heavyweight champs in today's era
— Vitali was better than Fury
— Francis would've beaten Calzaghe in '97
— Mosley was better in his prime than Mayweather
— McCallum was the best middleweight in the mid '80s
— McCall had the physical attributes to have been the greatest heavyweight
— Hide and Mason would've been heavyweight champs in today's era
Hide and Mason?
Francis-Calzaghe?
These aren’t just unpopular. They could get you sectioned. Stay safe.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 01:46
by margaret thatcher
Think Wilder, Fury, and Josh would all beat both of them
Would've liked to see Mason in more consistent tests, for 37-1 he has a lot of fluff on his record, and then of course his big step up was vs a great. Leaves a lot of open area ...
— Vitali was better than Fury
— Francis would've beaten Calzaghe in '97
— Mosley was better in his prime than Mayweather
— McCallum was the best middleweight in the mid '80s
— McCall had the physical attributes to have been the greatest heavyweight
— Hide and Mason would've been heavyweight champs in today's era
I love McCallum, a complete fighter and high level operator. Don't hear about him much - although I mostly frequent the CS. Hagler was every bit as complete plus had more pop. I feel Hagler is the better fighter. Would have been a great fantasy fight.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 02:12
by margaret thatcher
McCallum was very good, but Haggy just had that something extra to him
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 02:20
by Grilling Machine
mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 01:40Hide and Mason?
Francis-Calzaghe?
Hide landed shots on Bowe that would've sent AJ and Wilder reeling, and he got back up several times. He was the '90s Haye.
Mason was a tough, tough guy and could whack. He'd struggle with Fury's size, but I wouldn't be surprised if he beat AJ. Mason lost to Lewis and AJ to Ruiz...
Francis over Calzaghe in '97 because I think Joe was feeling himself too much until his wake-up call against Eubank.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 02:21
by lazboy
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 02:12
McCallum was very good, but Haggy just had that something extra to him
Aggression, power, efficiency of movement and punches - Hagler didn’t waste his shots, not saying McCallum did although he threw more with less poise (imo). Also being ambidextrous.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 02:23
by lazboy
Anyway it’s a worthy unpopular opinion. As in it’s not outrageous to suggest.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 02:51
by Grilling Machine
I credit McCallum with better perception than Hagler, pressuring opponents into mistakes where Marv pressured them into submission. He was days from his 40th when he went the distance against prime Jones at light-heavy.
22m if it doesn't embed, and just look at how well he senses every reply and takes a step back to roll and slip. His offence-engineered defensive timing was special, and it's something that Hagler, despite having other strengths over McCallum, didn't have.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 01:40Hide and Mason?
Francis-Calzaghe?
Hide landed shots on Bowe that would've sent AJ and Wilder reeling, and he got back up several times. He was the '90s Haye.
Mason was a tough, tough guy and could whack. He'd struggle with Fury's size, but I wouldn't be surprised if he beat AJ. Mason lost to Lewis and AJ to Ruiz...
Francis over Calzaghe in '97 because I think Joe was feeling himself too much until his wake-up call against Eubank.
He destroyed him in the aba final only a few years earlier.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 03:26
by mickey1975
Dean Francis shoulder injury did not stop him ruling the world.
banjo wrote: ↑24 May 2020, 07:49
Maybe not an unpopular opinion, I'm not sure, but I think Ricky Hatton pissed away what could have been an even more successful career with his excessive food and alcohol consumption as part of his "man of the people" routine.
I wonder how much of his training regime was wasted on getting him back into shape when he could have been using that time developing his boxing skills.
He pissed a good chunk of it away defending that stupid fcking WBU title
This. I think he peaked before the Tszyu fight. Whether he would have beaten him a year earlier is debatable though.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 04:16
by Flump
Grilling Machine wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 02:51
I credit McCallum with better perception than Hagler, pressuring opponents into mistakes where Marv pressured them into submission. He was days from his 40th when he went the distance against prime Jones at light-heavy.
22m if it doesn't embed, and just look at how well he senses every reply and takes a step back to roll and slip. His offence-engineered defensive timing was special, and it's something that Hagler, despite having other strengths over McCallum, didn't have.
McCallum was a superb technician, wonderful fighter. But that's against Jose Vallejo. There is nothing in McCallum's Middleweight record to suggest he beats Hagler, and nobody was calling for the fight at the time.
Grilling Machine wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 02:51
I credit McCallum with better perception than Hagler, pressuring opponents into mistakes where Marv pressured them into submission. He was days from his 40th when he went the distance against prime Jones at light-heavy.
22m if it doesn't embed, and just look at how well he senses every reply and takes a step back to roll and slip. His offence-engineered defensive timing was special, and it's something that Hagler, despite having other strengths over McCallum, didn't have.
McCallum was a superb technician, wonderful fighter. But that's against Jose Vallejo. There is nothing in McCallum's Middleweight record to suggest he beats Hagler, and nobody was calling for the fight at the time.
Mike certainly wasn't. He moved up after Marvin retired for a reason. Then he lost to kalambay.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 26 May 2020, 22:19
by Grilling Machine
mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 03:25He destroyed him in the aba final only a few years earlier.
I've watched it a few times, and there's no doubt Calzaghe was the better amateur. But Francis reached his prime in '97 and was thriving on pro rules. If Reid could push Calzaghe (albeit when his hands started going), I'm certain Francis could.
Flump wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 04:16There is nothing in McCallum's Middleweight record to suggest he beats Hagler, and nobody was calling for the fight at the time.
Neither was Hagler! Nor Leonard, Hearns or Duran, and had Eubank not been a friend he wouldn't have wanted him either. McCallum went on to achieve wins over Jackson, Curry, Graham, Kalambay, Collins and Watson, and was never stopped. He ran Toney super close when he was past his best.
I'm not saying he'd have beaten all those names, but I don't think any would've escaped without punishment. Hagler-McCallum was very much like Calzaghe-Froch, in that Hagler was winding down and had little to prove. There was a big window of opportunity between Hearns and Leonard when he only fought Mugabi, but those were three top names in a row.
Can't interest you in Wilder-Hide, Shhh?! Mason would've given AJ all kinds of trouble for my money.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 03:25He destroyed him in the aba final only a few years earlier.
I've watched it a few times, and there's no doubt Calzaghe was the better amateur. But Francis reached his prime in '97 and was thriving on pro rules. If Reid could push Calzaghe (albeit when his hands started going), I'm certain Francis could.
Flump wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 04:16There is nothing in McCallum's Middleweight record to suggest he beats Hagler, and nobody was calling for the fight at the time.
Neither was Hagler! Nor Leonard, Hearns or Duran, and had Eubank not been a friend he wouldn't have wanted him either. McCallum went on to achieve wins over Jackson, Curry, Graham, Kalambay, Collins and Watson, and was never stopped. He ran Toney super close when he was past his best.
I'm not saying he'd have beaten all those names, but I don't think any would've escaped without punishment. Hagler-McCallum was very much like Calzaghe-Froch, in that Hagler was winding down and had little to prove. There was a big window of opportunity between Hearns and Leonard when he only fought Mugabi, but those were three top names in a row.
Can't interest you in Wilder-Hide, Shhh?! Mason would've given AJ all kinds of trouble for my money.
So, basically, when Joe had two good hands, he’d have punched him upside down again, am or pro.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 27 May 2020, 05:41
by banjo
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 02:12
McCallum was very good, but Haggy just had that something extra to him
Hagler for me was the complete fighter and was probably the best middleweight in the world for at least 2 years before he even won the title.
— Vitali was better than Fury
— Francis would've beaten Calzaghe in '97
— Mosley was better in his prime than Mayweather
— McCallum was the best middleweight in the mid '80s
— McCall had the physical attributes to have been the greatest heavyweight
— Hide and Mason would've been heavyweight champs in today's era
Yes
I don't think 1997, but possibly more like 1999/2000 (pre the shoulder). I think the age difference was crucial in their amateur fight.
Nope - nobody was.
Nope.
Nope - he didn't have a particularly good ability to slip shots. Remember he had several defeats (when stepping up) prior to the Lewis first fight. With focus and stamina, a decent boxer could out jab his face off for 12 rounds.
Hide - Not with that chin, Mason - just don't think he had the stamina but a closer call than Hide.
He pissed a good chunk of it away defending that stupid fcking WBU title
This. I think he peaked before the Tszyu fight. Whether he would have beaten him a year earlier is debatable though.
That's an excellent unpopular opinion and I agree. I honestly don't think the Hatton of a year before the Tszyu fight would have eaten so many straight right hands. I definately think the best Ricky Hatton was around the Ben Tackie fight.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 27 May 2020, 09:08
by JC
I remember a lot of open tension between Warren and Hatton over not getting the big fights sooner during the WBU era. Kelson Pinto (wonder what happened to him) was going to be Hatton's next big test after Tackie, but he pulled out to fight Cotto instead. There was always talk of Hatton fighting Shamba Mitchell, Vivian Harris, Cotto or Gatti, which never came to anything.
Same with Calzaghe during that Sky/Sports Network era in the early 00s. Lots of big fights talked about and then disappointing opponents in the end.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 27 May 2020, 10:13
by Twinkle Toes
Exactly, people have soon forgotten how bad it was when Warren was running the show.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 27 May 2020, 10:17
by margaret thatcher
People always have the most hate for whoever the biggest player is at the moment