BoxRec

Oh dear

Oh don’t get me wrong, the 35 year old completely changed his boxing style for the “career defining fight” with Jeff ‘Left Hook’ Lacy. Huge Joe fan here. Nice one. Cool!

Interesting pick Charley Burley. He is one of those romanticised folklore names like Sam Langford that gets mentioned typically by people wanting to appear unorthodox .. yet knowledgeable (yet without actually knowing too much); typical Eubank actually!

As good as Burley undoubtedly was, there was a name on his record that I`d say deserved much higher praise than him .. although will typically get dismissed because he too fought well out of his natural weight whilst still managing to become a worlds champion.

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Dec 2020, 14:10 Interesting pick Charley Burley. He is one of those romanticised folklore names like Sam Langford that gets mentioned typically by people wanting to appear unorthodox .. yet knowledgeable (yet without actually knowing too much); typical Eubank actually!

As good as Burley undoubtedly was, there was a name on his record that I`d say deserved much higher praise than him .. although will typically get dismissed because he too fought well out of his natural weight whilst still managing to become a worlds champion.

Ezzard Charles or sumik?

Yep - Ezzard Charles

Lots of good fighters were/are forced to fight out of their seemingly best division. And there are quite a few names on Burley's record of other guys who did so too.
From looking at Burley's record and what's on YouTube he was a superb boxer, and if he had more luck he would have undoubtedly been good enough to win a welter or maybe even a middleweight title; but does anyone really believe he was the best ever?

Whilst I won't say Ezzard Charles was the best ever - but will say he ranks much higher than Charley Burley does.

Greatest he was referred to in Eubanks criteria. Not the best.

We don’t know who was the best, impossible to know.

You posted this yourself ..

The greatest fighter in history is one who did not win the world championship, and I'll tell you for why

Come on mate you being silly now.

Oh dear. Oh no.

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑23 Dec 2020, 21:07 Breland was a phenomenal amateur.

110-1, 82 senior world amateur champion (beating the Russian and Cuban), 84 Olympic gold and something like 80 KOs.

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2020, 23:00

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑23 Dec 2020, 21:07 Breland was a phenomenal amateur.

110-1, 82 senior world amateur champion (beating the Russian and Cuban), 84 Olympic gold and something like 80 KOs.

Never really translated to the pro's though, not sure why.

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 04:41

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2020, 23:00

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑23 Dec 2020, 21:07 Breland was a phenomenal amateur.

110-1, 82 senior world amateur champion (beating the Russian and Cuban), 84 Olympic gold and something like 80 KOs.

Never really translated to the pro's though, not sure why.

I think Canada's Wayne Gordon gave an inkling when he wobbled Breland with a right hand in the second round of their Olympic bout and forced a standing eight-count. It was Breland's first bout of the Games and Gordon really got stuck into him but the rangy American, who looked unconvincing all the way through, still got it 5:0 on the cards. American fighters couldn't lose a decision in Los Angeles. Shawn O'Sullivan, another rugged Canadian, forced two standing eight-counts on Frank Tate in the second round of their light-middleweight final and almost stopped him but four of the five judges awarded the round to Tate, who celebrates at the end of it and then wildly at the end of the third. He knew he couldn't lose if he made it to the final bell.
In the semis, an Italian heavyweight by the name of Angelo Musone dropped a 5:0 decision to American Henry Tillman which is every bit as bad as the decision Roy Jones dropped to the Korean four years later. The American crowd cheered Musone from the ring. Virgil Hill was beaten by Yugoslav southpaw Damir Skaro early in the Games but got a 4:1 decision. Jerry Page lost to Korea's Kim Dong-Kil in the quarter-finals but also got it 4:1. Meldrick Taylor looked lucky to get the nod over stocky Nigerian Peter Konyegwachie in the featherweight final and appears embarrassed when he gets it 5:0. By this stage, the Koreans were openly threatening to get their own back four years later and with that in mind, Korean middleweight Shin Joon-Sup gets the nod over Hill in the final. It wasn't enough to save Jones.

As always thanks Bennie for the great info, as for Breland he still had a good pro career just not the great one everybody was predicting.
The fight against Davis was just insane.

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 08:37 As always thanks Bennie for the great info, as for Breland he still had a good pro career just not the great one everybody was predicting.
The fight against Davis was just insane.

Ironically, everyone thinks Honeyghan had a brilliant career and Breland destroyed him.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 09:16

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 08:37 As always thanks Bennie for the great info, as for Breland he still had a good pro career just not the great one everybody was predicting.
The fight against Davis was just insane.

Ironically, everyone thinks Honeyghan had a brilliant career and Breland destroyed him.

Honeyghan wasn't right that night but yup, Breland dispatched him easily enough.

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 09:22

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 09:16

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 08:37 As always thanks Bennie for the great info, as for Breland he still had a good pro career just not the great one everybody was predicting.
The fight against Davis was just insane.

Ironically, everyone thinks Honeyghan had a brilliant career and Breland destroyed him.

Honeyghan wasn't right that night but yup, Breland dispatched him easily enough.

I was there. 13 years old on a coachfull of drunks from a York pub. Was knackered at school the next day.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 10:03

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 09:22

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 09:16
Ironically, everyone thinks Honeyghan had a brilliant career and Breland destroyed him.

Honeyghan wasn't right that night but yup, Breland dispatched him easily enough.

I was there. 13 years old on a coachfull of drunks from a York pub. Was knackered at school the next day.

14/15 years old if you were born in '75.

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 04:41

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2020, 23:00

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑23 Dec 2020, 21:07 Breland was a phenomenal amateur.

110-1, 82 senior world amateur champion (beating the Russian and Cuban), 84 Olympic gold and something like 80 KOs.

Never really translated to the pro's though, not sure why.

Manny Steward said in 84 that Breland and Errol Christie were the two most talented fighters he’d ever seen.

Christie another who couldn’t cut it without a head guard and pillows.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 10:03

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 09:22

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 09:16
Ironically, everyone thinks Honeyghan had a brilliant career and Breland destroyed him.

Honeyghan wasn't right that night but yup, Breland dispatched him easily enough.

I was there. 13 years old on a coachfull of drunks from a York pub. Was knackered at school the next day.

14, I thought it was 89. Wharton’s second fight was on the undercard, that’s why we all went.

Honeyghan was finished as a world class fighter by the time he challenged Breland in early 1990. His last great display came in Spain in 1987 against the American Gene Hatcher, whom he despatched with a huge right hand in just 45 seconds. Hatcher said afterwards he felt he had been hit with the ring-post. Sadly, Lloyd messed up the hand in victory and never really threw it with the same venom again, often switching southpaw to protect it and concentrating more on body shots and the left hook. John Conteh lived with the same problem.
Following the Hatcher destruction, came two fights with the unheralded Jorge Vaca of Mexico. Vaca won the first (and the WBC welterweight title) on one of those confused technical decisions after he was cut from a clash of heads in the eighth round. It was a hollow victory but Vaca had proved surprisingly difficult up to the finish and still looked strong. Honeyghan won back the title with a three-round demolition a few months later at Wembley, finishing it with a body shot, but his wildness raised a few eyebrows. Then came a defence in Atlantic City against a tall Korean who refused to continue after he was hit low in the fifth round. Again, Honeyghan looked wild and was made to measure for cute American Marlon Starling when they met in Las Vegas in early 1989. Lloyd pulled out one from the past when he rocked a showboating Starling with a big right in the third round but it was all downhill from there and painfully downhill. Starling picked him to pieces and won in the ninth.
I was shocked at Honeyghan's regression in a nothing fight with the American Delfino Marin in Florida in August 1989. Marin, a man Honeyghan would have destroyed in his pomp, shook the ex-champion early on and continued to make life uncomfortable for Lloyd throughout the 10-rounder, before conceding the points. It was hardly a warm-up for Honeyghan's showdown with Breland at Wembley in March 1990 for Breland's WBA welterweight title (a title Lloyd binned in his prime). Breland had also suffered at the hands of Starling but he was younger, fresher, with pain-free hands and he took care of the home man in just three rounds, dropping him all of six times. It was a rout, an embarrassment, but Lloyd stuck around for a few more paydays up at light-middleweight before calling it a day in 1995.

Is Honeyghan well again now?

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2020, 23:00

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑23 Dec 2020, 21:07 Breland was a phenomenal amateur.

110-1, 82 senior world amateur champion (beating the Russian and Cuban), 84 Olympic gold and something like 80 KOs.

He even avenged that sole am defeat in his early pro career, still unbeaten.

bennie wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 07:27

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 04:41

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2020, 23:00

110-1, 82 senior world amateur champion (beating the Russian and Cuban), 84 Olympic gold and something like 80 KOs.

Never really translated to the pro's though, not sure why.

I think Canada's Wayne Gordon gave an inkling when he wobbled Breland with a right hand in the second round of their Olympic bout and forced a standing eight-count. It was Breland's first bout of the Games and Gordon really got stuck into him but the rangy American, who looked unconvincing all the way through, still got it 5:0 on the cards. American fighters couldn't lose a decision in Los Angeles. Shawn O'Sullivan, another rugged Canadian, forced two standing eight-counts on Frank Tate in the second round of their light-middleweight final and almost stopped him but four of the five judges awarded the round to Tate, who celebrates at the end of it and then wildly at the end of the third. He knew he couldn't lose if he made it to the final bell.
In the semis, an Italian heavyweight by the name of Angelo Musone dropped a 5:0 decision to American Henry Tillman which is every bit as bad as the decision Roy Jones dropped to the Korean four years later. The American crowd cheered Musone from the ring. Virgil Hill was beaten by Yugoslav southpaw Damir Skaro early in the Games but got a 4:1 decision. Jerry Page lost to Korea's Kim Dong-Kil in the quarter-finals but also got it 4:1. Meldrick Taylor looked lucky to get the nod over stocky Nigerian Peter Konyegwachie in the featherweight final and appears embarrassed when he gets it 5:0. By this stage, the Koreans were openly threatening to get their own back four years later and with that in mind, Korean middleweight Shin Joon-Sup gets the nod over Hill in the final. It wasn't enough to save Jones.

Are these on YouTube?

The Korean who beat Roy by robbery was beaten just as clearly by Italy’s Vincenzo Nardiello in I think the semis - that robbery over Nardiello looked even worse than the Jones one.

Roy Jones wasn’t even the best US 154lber in 1988 - tall southpaw Frankie Liles dropped him heavily and Gerald McClellan beat him cleanly in a war. Tim Littles was always considered the best talent and Olympic hopeful. Jones was maybe third or fourth.

Coincidentally Chris Eubank signed to fight unbeaten Littles in 92 when made mandatory when he could’ve given up the belt and fought average Italian Galvano for another belt. Littles pulled out injured and was replaced by Tony Thornton. Eubank doesn’t get credit for taking the Littles and Calzaghe fights.

McClellan had so much potential but fell in love with his power. Didn't work on his defense. He took punches from Julian Jackson that would have knocked out a horse.