BoxRec

Steveh583 wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 04:08

TheGman wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021, 11:26 Ricky hatton?

I always believed tsyzu took something from Hatton in losing. Plus he became obsessed with repeating those same tactics in every fight

bennie wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 03:47

f read wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021, 05:37 Gerry Cooney. When he lost to Larry Holmes June 11 1982 he was as good as done. He only fought another 5 times with 2 more losses to Michael Spinks and George Foreman. He was outclassed and overmatched against Holmes but to his credit he gave it his all. I believe that if he fought a few of the other champs around that time he would have a good chance of victory. Mancini lost to a superior fighter in Arguello but bounced back 7 months later to defeat Arturo Frias.

Cooney stood a much better chance against WBA champion Mike Weaver than he did against Holmes. Unfortunately, he was co-managed by Dennis Rappaport and Mike Jones, also known in boxing circles as "The Wacko Twins", and they messed up every fighter they touched. They paid Howard Davis a fortune to turn pro in 1977, after Davis had won lightweight gold in the Montreal Olympics (and the Val Barker Trophy as the best boxer in the Games) and Davis proceeded to underachieve throughout his disappointing career, although he did come close to winning the WBC lightweight title in 1984 against Edwin Rosario but close is not good enough.
Cooney was also an underachiever and he went into the Holmes fight with three minutes and 45 seconds of action in the previous two years, which is obviously ludicrous. Plus, he was drinking heavily as the weight of expectancy got on top of him. Nevertheless, he fought a good fight and should have bounced back but Gerry was a sensitive soul who took the defeat badly. He despised his managers and he despised Don King, who had the leading contenders sewn up and froze Cooney out. The drinking got worse and Cooney was on a bottle of scotch a day for the remainder of his stop-start career. Thankfully, he quit the bottle many moons ago.

Controversial wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 07:06 Cooney management was a huge problem, he was far too inactive plus he was his a big drinker. His preparation against Holmes was a joke, he had a 54 second win 13 months prior and had another one round win 7 months before that. Two blast outs in almost two years! With the right management and mindset Cooney would've been champ.

f read wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 12:58

Controversial wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 07:06 Cooney management was a huge problem, he was far too inactive plus he was his a big drinker. His preparation against Holmes was a joke, he had a 54 second win 13 months prior and had another one round win 7 months before that. Two blast outs in almost two years! With the right management and mindset Cooney would've been champ.

I do not think on his best night he defeats a peak Holmes. I will give him a punchers chance however. I also think he was overmatched but gave it his all and came up short. Holmes i believe his best asset was his adaptability he could fight boxers as well as punchers. The division was not at its best when he was champ and in the historical aspect of greatness he losses a few points for this even though i would put him at middle of the top ten or so.

Controversial wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 13:14

f read wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 12:58

Controversial wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 07:06 Cooney management was a huge problem, he was far too inactive plus he was his a big drinker. His preparation against Holmes was a joke, he had a 54 second win 13 months prior and had another one round win 7 months before that. Two blast outs in almost two years! With the right management and mindset Cooney would've been champ.

I do not think on his best night he defeats a peak Holmes. I will give him a punchers chance however. I also think he was overmatched but gave it his all and came up short. Holmes i believe his best asset was his adaptability he could fight boxers as well as punchers. The division was not at its best when he was champ and in the historical aspect of greatness he losses a few points for this even though i would put him at middle of the top ten or so.

Sure, I didn’t mean he would’ve beaten Holmes but he would’ve won a version of the title if handled better and more disciplined.

f read wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 13:23

Controversial wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 13:14

f read wrote: ↑30 Jan 2021, 12:58

I do not think on his best night he defeats a peak Holmes. I will give him a punchers chance however. I also think he was overmatched but gave it his all and came up short. Holmes i believe his best asset was his adaptability he could fight boxers as well as punchers. The division was not at its best when he was champ and in the historical aspect of greatness he losses a few points for this even though i would put him at middle of the top ten or so.

Sure, I didn’t mean he would’ve beaten Holmes but he would’ve won a version of the title if handled better and more disciplined.

Absolutely agreed. He could have defeated i believe Coetzee Weaver even Dokes. He had a punchers chance. Also neither of these were in the same league or class of Larry Holmes. Holmes had 20 titles defenses and held the title 7 years. Longevity and consistency means something to me. Also Joe Louis 25 title defenses and they called it a bum of the month club. I would refer to it as overmatched or inferior opposition. It is impressive because they He and Holmes could have easily training lightly overlooked and took lightly a few of these overmatched opposition and got defeated.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Feb 2021, 15:19 Weaver would have knocked cooney out.

f read wrote: ↑01 Feb 2021, 17:56

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Feb 2021, 15:19 Weaver would have knocked cooney out.

I disagree. I think Cooney in 1981-1982 knocks Mike Weaver out. That is an in house debated who wins this.

bennie wrote: ↑02 Feb 2021, 02:20 Cooney had a real chance in the early rounds against the slow-starting Weaver. Cooney's wins over Norton, Lyle and especially Jimmy Young, whom he busted up and stopped in the fourth, proved that Cooney was a world class puncher. However, Weaver showed against Tate and Coetzee that he had excellent stamina for a muscled heavyweight and the ability to take out a tiring opponent, so the longer the fight, the better for him. I don't understand why Cooney's camp didn't target Weaver, who spent much of 1982, the year Cooney took on Holmes, waiting for a fight. In December 1982, he finally emerged and was stopped in the first round by Mike Dokes.

f read wrote: ↑02 Feb 2021, 05:04

bennie wrote: ↑02 Feb 2021, 02:20 Cooney had a real chance in the early rounds against the slow-starting Weaver. Cooney's wins over Norton, Lyle and especially Jimmy Young, whom he busted up and stopped in the fourth, proved that Cooney was a world class puncher. However, Weaver showed against Tate and Coetzee that he had excellent stamina for a muscled heavyweight and the ability to take out a tiring opponent, so the longer the fight, the better for him. I don't understand why Cooney's camp didn't target Weaver, who spent much of 1982, the year Cooney took on Holmes, waiting for a fight. In December 1982, he finally emerged and was stopped in the first round by Mike Dokes.

I concur with you. Can Weaver get past the early rounds and Cooney had great power. I remember George Foreman saying after his fight with Cooney that Gerry hit harder with the left hook than Joe Frazier wow. I do not understand why they did not target Weaver either instead they challenged Holmes the best heavyweight on the planet. I am sure the bigger purse played a large factor.

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑02 Feb 2021, 16:12 Cooney was a hell of a fighter

His left hand was formidable. A shame he wasn't managed better. The inactivity ruined his chances of being a perennial contender or even world champion.

f read wrote: ↑04 Feb 2021, 05:36

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑02 Feb 2021, 16:12 Cooney was a hell of a fighter

His left hand was formidable. A shame he wasn't managed better. The inactivity ruined his chances of being a perennial contender or even world champion.

The Wacko Twins Jones and Rappaport did not help either. I believe that Cooneys heart was never really in boxing. He had an abusive father who kind of forced him into it. He could really hit especially with the left hook.

MightyWarrior wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 10:02 Josh Warrington

DrDuke wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 08:04 Warrington doesn't fit the thread. First of all, he has just lost. Maybe he'll come back. Secondly, this loss is already a result of the problems he had before. Maybe he had already been "ruined", that's why he lost.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 07:34

MightyWarrior wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 10:02 Josh Warrington

We don't know yet for sure do we?