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Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 30 Mar 2021, 16:44
by Onetimeonly
Is dejesus a top 100 all time great? If not, he doesn't matter.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 30 Mar 2021, 17:16
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 16:44
Is dejesus a top 100 all time great? If not, he doesn't matter.
Nobody has said that he belongs in the top 100. He is a top 20 lightweight though.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 30 Mar 2021, 17:18
by Onetimeonly
elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 17:16
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 16:44
Is dejesus a top 100 all time great? If not, he doesn't matter.
Nobody has said that he belongs in the top 100. He is a top 20 lightweight though.
If he isn't top 100, he isn't truly great. You say that all the time. He's just an also ran like Oscar.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 10:49
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 17:18
elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 17:16
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 16:44
Is dejesus a top 100 all time great? If not, he doesn't matter.
Nobody has said that he belongs in the top 100. He is a top 20 lightweight though.
If he isn't top 100, he isn't truly great. You say that all the time. He's just an also ran like Oscar.
Many guys that were better than Oscar did not make the top 100 pound per pound best
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 11:28
by Onetimeonly
elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 10:49
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 17:18
elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 17:16
Nobody has said that he belongs in the top 100. He is a top 20 lightweight though.
If he isn't top 100, he isn't truly great. You say that all the time. He's just an also ran like Oscar.
Many guys that were better than Oscar did not make the top 100 pound per pound best
Nobody outside of the top 100 is great.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 21:43
by Jeff_lacy_ko
Its fun picking at inconsistent logic and fascinating to watch people justify their inconsistency.
They way we delude ourselves is interesting
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 22:21
by Onetimeonly
I've never encountered anyone more inconsistent than elmer. We all do it at times, he's perpetual.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 22:33
by Jeff_lacy_ko
If he just said
"Duran is my favorite fighter and i rank him higher because of it" i think id respect that
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 00:46
by elmersalsa
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 22:33
If he just said
"Duran is my favorite fighter and i rank him higher because of it" i think id respect that
What you are talking about?
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 11 Oct 2022, 15:46
by joshj909
Just managed to watch The Kings documentary and obviously I had a think of this question. Arguably they all have their own reason for being the best.
- Hearns is possibly the best pure boxer and had the most p4p power of the four, let down by his chin.
- Duran best p4p.
- Leonard best h2h and the most complete boxer.
- Hagler best if you don't take weightclass into the equation and arguably best h2h if you think he beat Leonard.
- Benitez may have had more raw talent.
Also, in another world the head to heard records could have been completely different. Leonard could have been 1-5 against these guys whereas Duran could have had a much better record if he had better work ethic.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 12:35
by Ruthless-RKO
The 5 that picked Hagler, if you had to, would you pick Duran or SRL?
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 14:17
by elmersalsa
gilgamesh wrote: ↑16 Mar 2021, 12:33
Overall: Duran
Head to Head: Leonard
Check mate!
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 16:51
by Ambling Alp II
Except that Leonard was better. Better head to head. Better against common opponents. Beat better competition (outside of themselves). Just about every factor that is usually used to compare fighters favors Leonard. The crybaby excuse advantage goes to Duran.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 21:08
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 16:51
Except that Leonard was better. Better head to head. Better against common opponents. Beat better competition (outside of themselves). Just about every factor that is usually used to compare fighters favors Leonard. The crybaby excuse advantage goes to Duran.
If a welterweight gets beat by a lightweight, the welterweight cannot be better. I didn't see no featherweight or super featherweight beating Roberto Duran. Did you?
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 21:14
by DrDuke
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:08
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 16:51
Except that Leonard was better. Better head to head. Better against common opponents. Beat better competition (outside of themselves). Just about every factor that is usually used to compare fighters favors Leonard. The crybaby excuse advantage goes to Duran.
If a welterweight gets beat by a lightweight, the welterweight cannot be better. I didn't see no featherweight or super featherweight beating Roberto Duran. Did you?
It's fair to fancy Arguello giving Duran a helluva fight and catching him.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 21:20
by elmersalsa
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:14
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:08
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 16:51
Except that Leonard was better. Better head to head. Better against common opponents. Beat better competition (outside of themselves). Just about every factor that is usually used to compare fighters favors Leonard. The crybaby excuse advantage goes to Duran.
If a welterweight gets beat by a lightweight, the welterweight cannot be better. I didn't see no featherweight or super featherweight beating Roberto Duran. Did you?
It's fair to fancy Arguello giving Duran a helluva fight and catching him.
And the Explosive Thin Man was taller and had more reach. And he never challenged the Hands of Stone. I wonder why.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 21:25
by DrDuke
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:20
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:14
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:08
If a welterweight gets beat by a lightweight, the welterweight cannot be better. I didn't see no featherweight or super featherweight beating Roberto Duran. Did you?
It's fair to fancy Arguello giving Duran a helluva fight and catching him.
And the Explosive Thin Man was taller and had more reach. And he never challenged the Hands of Stone. I wonder why.
I guess it could be possible, if Arguello won Vilomar Fernandez or if Duran decided to stay at LW longer.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 21:26
by elmersalsa
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:25
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:20
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:14
It's fair to fancy Arguello giving Duran a helluva fight and catching him.
And the Explosive Thin Man was taller and had more reach. And he never challenged the Hands of Stone. I wonder why.
I guess it could be possible, if Arguello won Vilomar Fernandez or if Duran decided to stay at LW longer.
Well, we all know what happened when Duran left the lightweight class.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 21:45
by oogiebe
More dick riding from our friend! Never stops.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 26 Mar 2023, 12:10
by Ambling Alp II
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:26
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:25
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:20
And the Explosive Thin Man was taller and had more reach. And he never challenged the Hands of Stone. I wonder why.
I guess it could be possible, if Arguello won Vilomar Fernandez or if Duran decided to stay at LW longer.
Well, we all know what happened when Duran left the lightweight class.
Yep. He started fighting great fighters and usually lost.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 26 Mar 2023, 18:26
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 12:10
elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:26
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Mar 2023, 21:25
I guess it could be possible, if Arguello won Vilomar Fernandez or if Duran decided to stay at LW longer.
Well, we all know what happened when Duran left the lightweight class.
Yep. He started fighting great fighters and usually lost.
Was it because it wasn't his ideal weight class?
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 26 Mar 2023, 18:42
by Ambling Alp II
147 and later 154 was his ideal weight class at the time. Like almost everyone who starts in a smaller weight class, he moved up. Like Leonard, like Hearns, like Benitez, and a lot of other guys. It's natural for most guys. It would have been unnatural for him to be fight at 135 at a young age and never moving up. When he moved up, the competition at 147 and 154, it happened to be a lot better at the time than the guys he had fought at 135.
Duran wasn't weighing 135 when he was fighting Leonard, Benitez, and Hearns. He natural moved up in weight. They were fair fights. He just lost most of his key fights and his apologists are forced to come up with crybaby excuses that we don't use for anyone else.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 26 Mar 2023, 19:49
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 18:42
147 and later 154 was his ideal weight class at the time. Like almost everyone who starts in a smaller weight class, he moved up. Like Leonard, like Hearns, like Benitez, and a lot of other guys. It's natural for most guys. It would have been unnatural for him to be fight at 135 at a young age and never moving up. When he moved up, the competition at 147 and 154, it happened to be a lot better at the time than the guys he had fought at 135.
Duran wasn't weighing 135 when he was fighting Leonard, Benitez, and Hearns. He natural moved up in weight. They were fair fights. He just lost most of his key fights and his apologists are forced to come up with crybaby excuses that we don't use for anyone else.
Well, tell me what fighter of the 4 kings excelled above 147lbs against superb opposition?
Duran was a lightweight Fighting middleweights. That's a fact. It wasn't Leonard, nor Hearns nor Benitez fighting light heavyweights.
That's a fair comparison. Each one in his own weight Class.
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 26 Mar 2023, 20:01
by oogiebe
Jesus these two having the same girlie slap fight on every freakin' mention of Duran!!
Re: Who was the greatest of the "Four Kings"?
Posted: 26 Mar 2023, 21:20
by gilgamesh
It's funny that this thread was resolved basically, and it just keeps going on as an argument for no good reason.