Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑21 Oct 2021, 15:53
Ali had three round soft fighting in the previous three and half years when he fought Bonavena. And he was not almost losing. And he did stop Bonavena. Guess what, Ken Norton and Joe Frazier were pretty good. Even better than an ancient Klitschko who Fury struggled with.
He got cut once in his career? So what? What do you think fury's face would look like after getting hit by Ali over and over?
Fury had a great engine to box? He would be fighting against a guy who fought at a helluva lot faster pace than he was used to.
No he probably would not fight a rope a dope against Fury. He did that one time in his career. Wouldn't be necessary against Fury.
Fury would be out of gas having to fight a faster pace for 15 rounds. He would be getting hit much more than he ever did before. He would toast after the middle rounds.
This would be against the early 1970s version. It would be much worse against a prime Ali.
Toast?
That's quite the imagination considering Fury went ten or twelve rounds several times in his career, even when he was grossly overweight.
And yes, Ali was looking tremendously like crap against Oscar Bonavena, and regardless of what the scorecards said, Ali was losing that fight before stopping Bonavena in the 15th. In fact, I would argue the Argentinian was robbed of a knockdown or two in that fight.
Fury didn't struggle with Klitschko. It was probably the easiest fight he had with the exception of the Chisora rematch and the Kevin Johnson fight. Fury's game plan was strictly to outbox Klitschko, not to make a fight of it, because he said before and after the fight that people have knocked out Klitschko but nobody has ever outboxed him.
Ken Norton BECAME good, but prior to facing Ali he had been kayoed by Jose Luis Garcia and did not have a single solitary win against any one of any real consequence. Context is everything. Ali lost to a glorified nobody that night, and one can make a serious argument that Norton won all three fights or at least two out of three.
Ali did the rope-a-dope multiple times, not just against Foreman. Sorry those revisionist tactics may work in politics but not in boxing. He did it with Wepner, Lyle, Frazier, etc.
Ali never had the reputation of being a puncher so it's hard to imagine how a guy who needed several rounds of a cumulative shots in order to get technical knockouts is going to stop Fury in the middle rounds.
It's not going to be Fury who was going to have to work harder than he ever had, it would be Ali having to work harder than he was used to--- because he would have to overcome a giant with athleticism and skills who could be very elusive and doesn't mind getting down and dirty making it a dog fight either.
I mean really look at the fights from 1971 and onwards--- let's really examine how low the punch rate was for Ali, because it was substantially lower than it was in the 1960s.
I'm down to do a round-by-round analysis of some 1970s Ali fights, kind of like compubox. I did a similar thread years ago with Rocky Marciano showing that he threw well over 80 punches a round and sometimes as high as 120 punches a round.
BTW, just because someone has more accomplishments or has been in more high profile matches or entertaining matches does not necessarily equate to them being the winner in a head-to-head matchup.
After all Anthony Joshua may have unified the titles and had more title defenses than Tyson Fury but there is nobody who honestly believes that Anthony Joshua could ever beat Tyson Fury. Accomplishments mean nothing. It's really about who is better and who has been tested.
Furthermore, you're talking about men who were 6 ft tall and 200 lb fighting other men 6 ft tall and 200 lb for the most part. They never truly fought enormous heavyweights who were not only athletic but were smart and had skills.
It's one thing putting on great performances against men your own size, it's a whole other kettle of fish putting on a good performance against a man who makes you look like a child.
Tommy Burns was a great pound for pound fighter in his day but Jack Johnson was simply too big and too good--- and what we are talking about here is comparable height and weight differentials.
I get it. You are nostalgic. You think everybody today stinks and couldn't hold a candle to childhood heroes. That's fine, but don't act like you're being objective.
I never said it would come easy for Fury. I said it would go the entire distance whether it be the '60s or '70s version. Fury would have to bring his A+ game, and it would most likely be a ugly and dull match with Fury nullifying Ali's attributes.
You on the other hand want to say the slower and flat-footed version of Ali would make Fury "toast" in the middle rounds, regardless if it is 12 rounds or 15 rounds. Four through six rounds? That is absolutely ridiculous.
On what basis? Don't even bring up Steve Cunningham cus that was eight years ago. Even at that Fury was screwing around, not taking anything seriously, got dropped and got up at the count of four, and then proceeded to beat the living crap out of the former cruiserweight champion of the world. And that certainly wasn't Fury at his best either.
One thing I will give you is this. Ali was better in rematches, just like Joe Louis. But then again so is Tyson Fury. So who knows how a trilogy would go. But in a one-off showdown? It would be close, but I do give it to Tyson Fury.
He's always had a good engine even when out of shape. You people are ridiculous.