BoxRec

Wlad and Wilder, in their home countries, is about as much as is possible. Apart from AJ. Which would have been a mismatch. And I mention him because I've had it rammed down my throat for years how AJ was the best thing since sliced bread. I knew he wasn't.

There are other challenges out there, to be recognised as a dominant champ, you have to clean out your division. Obviously sometimes fights can't be made for one reason or another, but Fury certainly hasn't done that.

Whyte, Joyce, Usyk, and he'll have had a decent career.

I can't see him ever overtaking Lewis, as the quality of opposition and longevity at the top isn't there. I guess there will be those who will argue his case, but I doubt I'll be one of them, barring some some sort of incredible end to his career.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 07:53 There are other challenges out there, to be recognised as a dominant champ, you have to clean out your division. Obviously sometimes fights can't be made for one reason or another, but Fury certainly hasn't done that.

Whyte, Joyce, Usyk, and he'll have had a decent career.

I can't see him ever overtaking Lewis, as the quality of opposition and longevity at the top isn't there. I guess there will be those who will argue his case, but I doubt I'll be one of them, barring some some sort of incredible end to his career.

I understand that, but Lennox seems to have two ko's swept under the carpet. The Mercer fight, Vitali....

Problem is, Lewis has a roster of wins.

Fury has one exceptional win, but the fight was so befuddling I really didn’t know what to make of it afterwards.

He then has two wins and a draw against Wilder, who has a terrible resume.

Out of these three fights, Tyson dominated the only one where he turned up anything like the Tyson that beat Wlad.

That he went life and death in the others is flattering to Wilder, because Fury was either not sharp or out of shape.

AJ, Whyte and Usyk all start as favourites for me against the last Fury we saw.

It’s a different story if he can roll back to previous form.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 11:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 07:53 There are other challenges out there, to be recognised as a dominant champ, you have to clean out your division. Obviously sometimes fights can't be made for one reason or another, but Fury certainly hasn't done that.

Whyte, Joyce, Usyk, and he'll have had a decent career.

I can't see him ever overtaking Lewis, as the quality of opposition and longevity at the top isn't there. I guess there will be those who will argue his case, but I doubt I'll be one of them, barring some some sort of incredible end to his career.

I understand that, but Lennox seems to have two ko's swept under the carpet. The Mercer fight, Vitali....

Not all, but he beat both men resoundingly in return.

Vitali was a late substitute, and Lewis was right near the end of his career.

The Mercer fight? What about it, tough fight, so what?

Looks like Whyte is getting shafted. Fight with Joyce is easy to make and what will he get… 3/4mil max with Tyson getting the rest.
I don’t even feel sorry for Whyte tbh.

Dioufy wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 12:20 Looks like Whyte is getting shafted. Fight with Joyce is easy to make and what will he get… 3/4mil max with Tyson getting the rest.
I don’t even feel sorry for Whyte tbh.

I've no problems with the Joyce fight, I think Joyce probably has more to offer. Whyte's pretty ordinary, and he's not a huge puncher either.

id be cool with joyce too........basically, a solid contender for fury and then usyk-aj winner is what should happen

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 12:32 id be cool with joyce too........basically, a solid contender for fury and then usyk-aj winner is what should happen

Joyce is one of those fighters who performs better than he looks, and he's definitely strong as an ox.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 11:58

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 11:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 07:53 There are other challenges out there, to be recognised as a dominant champ, you have to clean out your division. Obviously sometimes fights can't be made for one reason or another, but Fury certainly hasn't done that.

Whyte, Joyce, Usyk, and he'll have had a decent career.

I can't see him ever overtaking Lewis, as the quality of opposition and longevity at the top isn't there. I guess there will be those who will argue his case, but I doubt I'll be one of them, barring some some sort of incredible end to his career.

I understand that, but Lennox seems to have two ko's swept under the carpet. The Mercer fight, Vitali....

Not all, but he beat both men resoundingly in return.

Vitali was a late substitute, and Lewis was right near the end of his career.

The Mercer fight? What about it, tough fight, so what?

People always bring up the McDermott fight because it was close? Tyson was a baby and set it straight next time out. As for Wilder 3, Tyson was clearly out of shape.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 13:02

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 11:58

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 11:23
I understand that, but Lennox seems to have two ko's swept under the carpet. The Mercer fight, Vitali....

Not all, but he beat both men resoundingly in return.

Vitali was a late substitute, and Lewis was right near the end of his career.

The Mercer fight? What about it, tough fight, so what?

People always bring up the McDermott fight because it was close? Tyson was a baby and set it straight next time out. As for Wilder 3, Tyson was clearly out of shape.

Well, that Furys fault. Just like it was Lewis against Rahman

As far as I can read, those of us casting doubt on Fury are doing so without bias. He beat Wlad right at the end of his long reign; and he did so in an ugly and close fight which could have just as easily gone against him; the biggest surprise was not that Fury made it so close, but that he got the nod in Wlads home country.

The Wilder draw was exceptional given Furys previous weight and lack of experience; each of the other fights merely emphasised how bad and over rated Wilder really was/is.

I don`t think any of us here are not recognising Fury as the number 1 in the division; we are only recognising that Fury still has a lot to prove; whilst I would expect Fury to beat Joshua if/when they fight - who aside from Mickey would really be surprised if Joshua managed to beat Fury though? I really don`t believe it would surprise anyone else here.

As previously written; its a terrible era for heavyweights at the moment. For me Fury needs to beat more than an aged champion at the end of a very long reign, and a guy who hadnt himself beat any quality. So Whyte, Joyce, Usyk and Joshua; only two of those 4 may be something like quality - but so far they are the best of the bad bunch.

tonyevs wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 15:33
I don`t think any of us here are not recognising Fury as the number 1 in the division; we are only recognising that Fury still has a lot to prove

agree....dude has never put together a consistent run beating top opponents and theres still unified champs out there he's never beat. mr. 47 stitches is not the overlord yet.

tonyevs wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 15:33 As far as I can read, those of us casting doubt on Fury are doing so without bias. He beat Wlad right at the end of his long reign; and he did so in an ugly and close fight which could have just as easily gone against him; the biggest surprise was not that Fury made it so close, but that he got the nod in Wlads home country.

The Wilder draw was exceptional given Furys previous weight and lack of experience; each of the other fights merely emphasised how bad and over rated Wilder really was/is.

I don`t think any of us here are not recognising Fury as the number 1 in the division; we are only recognising that Fury still has a lot to prove; whilst I would expect Fury to beat Joshua if/when they fight - who aside from Mickey would really be surprised if Joshua managed to beat Fury though? I really don`t believe it would surprise anyone else here.

As previously written; its a terrible era for heavyweights at the moment. For me Fury needs to beat more than an aged champion at the end of a very long reign, and a guy who hadnt himself beat any quality. So Whyte, Joyce, Usyk and Joshua; only two of those 4 may be something like quality - but so far they are the best of the bad bunch.

So basically he gets no credit for beating long standing champions at home? Ok mate....

Fury has a thrilling trilogy rivalry which saw him survive the biggest shots of the biggest puncher in the sport and ultimately score two brutal KOs in America.

And going back he took the title from someone regarded as a Hall of Famer.

Bizarrely, he doesn’t have much else. And to accompany these exceptional achievements he should be fighting some contenders. Legit ones like Whyte. Who’s earned his shot by facing contenders for years.

Now, it’s time for his mandatory.

Has Whyte complicated things with his case vs the WBC? The man seems to have too many side dramas (the recent withdrawal, the steroid suspicion, the weight ballooning, breakup with trainer) to perhaps give his considerable best when it matters.

If he and Fury signed to fight, you’d worry that one would pull out.

Of course Fury gets credit for beating Wlad.
But if we are being pedantic; Wlad lost 3 of the 5 he lost at home.
He got stopped 4 of those 5 times he lost .. the only guy who didn't beat him by stoppage was Fury.

So let's not get too carried away by that win ..

*According to wiki. Fury landed 86 punches to Wlads 52 during the whole fight; not sure that's exactly boxing his head off .. wiki add 'The bout was marked by frequent clinches but not much punching'

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 15:39

tonyevs wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 15:33
I don`t think any of us here are not recognising Fury as the number 1 in the division; we are only recognising that Fury still has a lot to prove

agree....dude has never put together a consistent run beating top opponents and theres still unified champs out there he's never beat. mr. 47 stitches is not the overlord yet.

Exactly. Fury is the number one.

But if he turns up against any of the other contenders like he did last time out, he struggles.

The problem is, it is very possible he will.

The McDermott fight wasn’t close in reality. Despite being a competitive fight McDermott won clearly.

I say that as a big Fury fan.

BigGar wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 17:09 The McDermott fight wasn’t close in reality. Despite being a competitive fight McDermott won clearly.

I say that as a big Fury fan.

I thought that it showed Furys level and he would never win a British title

tonyevs wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 16:52 Of course Fury gets credit for beating Wlad.
But if we are being pedantic; Wlad lost 3 of the 5 he lost at home.
He got stopped 4 of those 5 times he lost .. the only guy who didn't beat him by stoppage was Fury.

So let's not get too carried away by that win ..

*According to wiki. Fury landed 86 punches to Wlads 52 during the whole fight; not sure that's exactly boxing his head off .. wiki add 'The bout was marked by frequent clinches but not much punching'

Isn’t it more impressive to outbox Wlad than to knock him out? He’s a brilliant boxer but a bit chinny. Obviously not as exciting but I’d argue it’s harder to do.

I don’t personally think either of Fury or Joshua’s wins over Wlad were as good as some make out though. He was well past his best & had looked poor against Jennings before Fury. Just a simple eye test could tell you he was nowhere near as sharp as the prime Wlad that fought Povetkin & Haye.

Didn't Ali lose a few times on home soil?

the mcdermott fights mean very little now tbh, so many good fghters, incliuding ones vastly better than fury, had early hiccups. i thought big john won too, but fair play fury went in right with him again and won conclusively . that was like a decade ago and hes obviously drastically better now

what the issue is for furys career, and his legacy, is he needs to fight good opposition more consistently, and to beat the other elite hws to truly rule the division. look at how usyk beat champ after champ (including unified champs), top contender after top contender, to become undisputed all within a couple years at cruiser. thats what a true ruler does. whereas fury has only ever made 1 title defense and beat only 2 top 10 hws his whole 14 year career--both for very nice wins, but still a limited resume

whyte/joyce, then the usyk-aj winner would be a nice way for him to carry on. also, even if aj loses the rematch to usyk, that could still be a big fight for fury if aj can return with a win. it would always allow fury to say he beat his bitter domestic rival. he dont win fights by proxy.

and wouldnt it be so satisfying to fury and his bois? surely its worth it if he can do it easily

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 21:40 Didn't Ali lose a few times on home soil?

Possibly. Point was to counter your argument you typically raise that it meant more to beat Wlad on home soil.

I am not sure that beating Wlad on points is better than getting a stoppage victory; I can't imagine more than 1 person (ok 2 people) thinking Fury's win was better than any of Wlads other losses .. the punch stats say it all ...

tonyevs wrote: ↑24 Nov 2021, 02:23

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2021, 21:40 Didn't Ali lose a few times on home soil?

Possibly. Point was to counter your argument you typically raise that it meant more to beat Wlad on home soil.

I am not sure that beating Wlad on points is better than getting a stoppage victory; I can't imagine more than 1 person (ok 2 people) thinking Fury's win was better than any of Wlads other losses .. the punch stats say it all ...

So knocking out a green, inexperienced pro is more noteworthy than a unified champion undefeated for 10 years?

Am I the only person who enjoyed Fury-Klitchsko?

Klitchsko reign was hard to watch and seeing the unified and lineal number 1 outboxed on home turf by a young heavy underdog Brit was special!

The build up, the ring walk, the constant threat of Fury walking onto one and even the song after was great with Vlad looking like he wanted the earth to swallow him up in the background.