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Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:05
by mickey1975
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 07:35
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 07:28
He was a pup then, about 20! Great learning fight and a lot closer than people make out. Re watch it. I had Mercer beating Lennox.
Lets go back to the original point then,which top level fighters did Wilder beat ?
And it was Tyson's 8TH FIGHT! In his opponents back yard on his opponents show. Big Terry had it 98-92.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:09
by bigjack
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:05
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 07:35
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 07:28
He was a pup then, about 20! Great learning fight and a lot closer than people make out. Re watch it. I had Mercer beating Lennox.
Lets go back to the original point then,which top level fighters did Wilder beat ?
And it was Tyson's 8TH FIGHT! In his opponents back yard on his opponents show. Big Terry had it 98-92.
Mickey I'm not knocking Tyson's ability in any way,he's as hard as nails and a very good fighter,but you said Wilder was better than a lot of Lewis's opponents,naming Mercer as one for instance.How do you come to that conclusion,where is the list of top Wilder opponents ?You conveniently mention Lewis getting a gift decision in Holyfield 2 but don't mention the fact he was ripped off in Holyfield 1 ?
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:12
by mickey1975
I don't see many from Ray? Larry Holmes boxed his head off whilst drawing his pension! Ortiz is better than Morrison.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:18
by bigjack
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:12
I don't see many from Ray? Larry Holmes boxed his head off whilst drawing his pension! Ortiz is better than Morrison.
Mickey you know styles make fights,Wlad wasn't exactly at his peak when Tyson performed the 'masterclass' that some believe happend
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:20
by jamesmcdonnell
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:12
I don't see many from Ray? Larry Holmes boxed his head off whilst drawing his pension! Ortiz is better than Morrison.
Larry Holmes is an ATG with the best jab in the history of the heavyweight division. Mercer maybe underestimated him. Holmes was 43, and went to have many more good nights.
Mercer went the distance with Holyfield, Holmes and Lewis, he was a good fighter, and one that was very durable and gave a lot of people a tough night's work. Mercer fought probably his best night's work against Lewis.
Morrison is hardly one of Lewis' best opponents so not sure of the relevance of Morrison in this. I'd argue Ortiz and Morrison are probably around the same level, Ortiz had better boxing skills though.
We all like Tyson, but let's not get carried away making out that Wilder belongs in the pantheon of dominant world champions. He's only faced one other top level heavyweight, and had a draw and two KO losses.
Fury is likely the best heavyweight of his era, but let's see all the fights happen first before we declare it a fait-accompli.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:22
by jamesmcdonnell
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 07:00
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 06:51
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 06:33
I wouldn't tip Wilder against Lennox, but 1 round is silly. Glen McCrory lasted two.
Wilder fights one way,coming forward,Mickey it's like you have forgotton all you know about boxing,Anyone who runs at Lewis is likely to get stopped early
He stopped 1 person at a good level in 1! I watched his whole career. I haven't forgotten anything. I've said before he gets a free pass for being brutally knocked out, twice. If that was anyone else, they'd be useless. He was a great fighter, but to suggest Wilder wouldn't do as well as Sweet D Williams or McCrory is stupid.
Wilder has zero defence, or footwork, he'd have been a lamb to the slaughter against someone like Lewis, who performed his best night's work against the big dangermen of the division.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:23
by bigjack
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:20
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:12
I don't see many from Ray? Larry Holmes boxed his head off whilst drawing his pension! Ortiz is better than Morrison.
Larry Holmes is an ATG with the best jab in the history of the heavyweight division. Mercer maybe underestimated him. Holmes was 43, and went to have many more good nights.
Mercer went the distance with Holyfield, Holmes and Lewis, he was a good fighter, and one that was very durable and gave a lot of people a tough night's work. Mercer fought probably his best night's work against Lewis.
Morrison is hardly one of Lewis' best opponents so not sure of the relevance of Morrison in this. I'd argue Ortiz and Morrison are probably around the same level, Ortiz had better boxing skills though.
We all like Tyson, but let's not get carried away making out that Wilder belongs in the pantheon of dominant world champions. He's only faced one other top level heavyweight, and had a draw and two KO losses.
Fury is likely the best heavyweight of his era, but let's see all the fights happen first before we declare it a fait-accompli.
Good post
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:30
by mickey1975
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:31
by mickey1975
And I meant Morrison was one of Mercer's best wins.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:33
by bigjack
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
mick,you're posting like a novice casual,where has all the reasoning gone,we know that you know your stuff but some of this is nonsense
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:35
by polecateddy
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
Mercer was very old and over the hill v Wlad. It was just a payday thing. Mercer was a bit underrated. He gave Holyfield and Lewis hard nights. If he’d not buggered up the Ferguson fight, he would have been a hard night for Bowe too. Probably would have got to Bruno late too if that one had gone ahead.
In terms with of what Wilder really was - I’d say Michael Grant with a big right hand. It genuinely hard to think of a significant heavyweight champion who wouldn’t have had a field day finding the gaps in his game and punishing him. Fury obviously needs to demonstrate he can beat more than Wilder and a stale Wlad. He needs to show he can apply himself properly to training and have a proper reign.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:40
by mickey1975
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:33
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
mick,you're posting like a novice casual,where has all the reasoning gone,we know that you know your stuff but some of this is nonsense
Well it's my opinion. Lennox got chinned twice and it's completely forgotten like he's a prime Ali.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:42
by mickey1975
polecateddy wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:35
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
Mercer was very old and over the hill v Wlad. It was just a payday thing. Mercer was a bit underrated. He gave Holyfield and Lewis hard nights. If he’d not buggered up the Ferguson fight, he would have been a hard night for Bowe too. Probably would have got to Bruno late too if that one had gone ahead.
He was younger than Larry was when he beat him.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:43
by mickey1975
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:33
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
mick,you're posting like a novice casual,where has all the reasoning gone,we know that you know your stuff but some of this is nonsense
A novice casual? Hahaha. I'm a lot of things but not that!
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:44
by bigjack
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:40
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:33
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
mick,you're posting like a novice casual,where has all the reasoning gone,we know that you know your stuff but some of this is nonsense
Well it's my opinion. Lennox got chinned twice and it's completely forgotten like he's a prime Ali.
I haven't forgotton,I was heartbroken when it happened,All i'm saying is Wilder isn't on the same level as most of Lewis's best wins,not slating Tyson either,it's Wilder i'm saying isn't much more than a puncher
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:45
by bigjack
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:43
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:33
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
mick,you're posting like a novice casual,where has all the reasoning gone,we know that you know your stuff but some of this is nonsense
A novice casual? Hahaha. I'm a lot of things but not that!
We know but that's how you sound here
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:45
by polecateddy
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:42
polecateddy wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:35
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
Mercer was very old and over the hill v Wlad. It was just a payday thing. Mercer was a bit underrated. He gave Holyfield and Lewis hard nights. If he’d not buggered up the Ferguson fight, he would have been a hard night for Bowe too. Probably would have got to Bruno late too if that one had gone ahead.
He was younger than Larry was when he beat him.
You’re talking nonsense if you’re trying to make out Wlad beating the ghost of Ray Mercer is in anyway significant to anything.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:57
by jamesmcdonnell
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:42
polecateddy wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:35
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
Mercer was very old and over the hill v Wlad. It was just a payday thing. Mercer was a bit underrated. He gave Holyfield and Lewis hard nights. If he’d not buggered up the Ferguson fight, he would have been a hard night for Bowe too. Probably would have got to Bruno late too if that one had gone ahead.
He was younger than Larry was when he beat him.
Come on Mickey. We all know Larry was an aberration. Not all fighters age the same.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 08:59
by jamesmcdonnell
polecateddy wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:35
mickey1975 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 08:30
I'm not saying Lennox isn't great! And bringing up Wlad. Mercer didn't do very well with him.
Mercer was very old and over the hill v Wlad. It was just a payday thing. Mercer was a bit underrated. He gave Holyfield and Lewis hard nights. If he’d not buggered up the Ferguson fight, he would have been a hard night for Bowe too. Probably would have got to Bruno late too if that one had gone ahead.
In terms with of what Wilder really was - I’d say Michael Grant with a big right hand. It genuinely hard to think of a significant heavyweight champion who wouldn’t have had a field day finding the gaps in his game and punishing him. Fury obviously needs to demonstrate he can beat more than Wilder and a stale Wlad. He needs to show he can apply himself properly to training and have a proper reign.
I was thinking more of Ruddock.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 09:24
by dan28uk
wilder wouldn’t of outboxed mercer but i would of bet him stopping him
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 09:55
by tonyevs
Micks not changing his mind here people. His opinions regarding Tyson are bizarre I know .. but they will not be changed until the inevitable happens.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 10:49
by Boxerbeetle
Mick’s on the wind-up, got to be.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 10:50
by bigjack
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 10:49
Mick’s on the wind-up, got to be.
I said that a few posts back,he couldn't be coming out with crap otherwise
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 10:58
by mickey1975
bigjack wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 10:50
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 10:49
Mick’s on the wind-up, got to be.
I said that a few posts back,he couldn't be coming out with crap otherwise
Mick's on the piss.
Re: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk - Anytime anyplace anywhere
Posted: 15 Dec 2021, 11:04
by jamesmcdonnell
dan28uk wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 09:24
wilder wouldn’t of outboxed mercer but i would of bet him stopping him
Mercer was nails, was only stopped when well past his sell by date.
Wilders power has been somewhat overrated by the level of opposition he's faced.