Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 18:27
by coghaugen11
polecateddy wrote: ↑23 Jan 2022, 17:29
I kind of wonder if the ragged pressure Collins brought to Eubank 1, was really any better than the effort Wharton brought to his Eubank fight? Perhaps Eubank had gone further backwards against the Irishman, bad knees effecting cardio, etc. Timing and reflexes slipping.
Collins had also slipped by the time he faced Eubank at Millstreet. He had been inactive after the Hong Kong thing fell through and even against Pyatt he didn’t look as sharp as the Collins who faced Kalambay in Italy (arguably won).
Eubank though had those half-dozen defences in 94 and the last two were very tough distance fights in which he swallowed his teeth in Sun City and was urinating blood from a few Wharton body hooks. He was also well into camp for the Ray Close III fight which was cancelled in early 95 (set for Feb) meaning he’d had no break! (Big Ray failed a brain scan and BBBoC took his license)
Both Eubank and Steve were lacklustre in that Millstreet bout. Both looked a little slower. Watch Eubank v Benn in 1990 and it’s almost in fast motion by comparison..
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 18:42
by coghaugen11
Collins would always of been awkward for Eubank because he held back a bit before launching into the scrappy attacks, whereas Wharton just came straight ahead in perpetual motion right through so could be read.
That more aggressive Collins of the second Eubank fight didn’t walk in like Wharton, he sprinted in! And gave him angles and was very physical, not letting him set his feet like he liked to
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 07:24
by coghaugen11
Compare Eubank v Wharton and Eubank v Calzaghe and it’s like a Porsche up to a Mondeo, just in the motion and sharpness and balance
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 15:00
by THEBUTCH
Yeah, but Wharton wasn't a world beater like Calzaghe. Nor was Eubank come to think about it.
Compare Calzaghe v Eubank to Calzaghe v Lacy.
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 15:10
by mickey1975
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 15:00
Yeah, but Wharton wasn't a world beater like Calzaghe. Nor was Eubank come to think about it.
Compare Calzaghe v Eubank to Calzaghe v Lacy.
No, Henry only beat two world champions after the Eubank fight, when he went "downhill".... one by knockout.
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 17:00
by coghaugen11
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 15:00
Yeah, but Wharton wasn't a world beater like Calzaghe. Nor was Eubank come to think about it.
Compare Calzaghe v Eubank to Calzaghe v Lacy.
A very faded Wharton made it close v Reid - Calzaghe in his prime age also put up a good fight against Reid in a losing effort (despite the official result), too.
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 17:08
by coghaugen11
It’s very plain to see how far Eubank slipped between Wharton and Calzaghe. Not difficult to see the difference in reflexes or the fact he was losing balance just trying to throw a punch against Joe after cortisol injections in his knees
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 17:40
by 595179
If I may butt in for a moment....... How could anyone possibly measure the strength of two boxer's chins just by watching YouTube videos? Isn't this as arbitrary as asking which supermodel has better legs?
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 25 Jan 2022, 05:55
by THEBUTCH
Some very different interpretations of these fights mentioned.
Nardiello and Galvano were very weak former world champions IMO, and the key word here being 'former'. Wharton didn't fight them with a world title on line.
In reality, at no point during the Reid fight was he in with a chance of beating Robin and got handed another boxing lesson.
Reid put in a gritty effort against Calzaghe who badly underestimated Robin, but Reid lost fair and square in a close one. Reid at that stage was better than most of Eubank's and Collins' challengers.
Noxy, Joe's will to win ? Surely that can't be questioned Where did that come from ? .... this comes from the fact that barely anyone who followed the pro game probably hadn't even heard of him as an amateur. Try 3 seasons on the trot in the ABA's against quality opposition winning every fight, stepping up a weight division each season. Something that i don't think has been repeated. His will to win only got stronger from there on and despite Calzaghe's other qualities, his desire to win was the biggest reason for his success. He never failed to win...and that goes beyond a lot of the poor opposition he faced, because he always came through be it the appalling Will McIntyre or the superb Mikkel Kessler.
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 25 Jan 2022, 06:23
by mickey1975
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022, 05:55
Some very different interpretations of these fights mentioned.
Nardiello and Galvano were very weak former world champions IMO, and the key word here being 'former'. Wharton didn't fight them with a world title on line.
In reality, at no point during the Reid fight was he in with a chance of beating Robin and got handed another boxing lesson.
Reid put in a gritty effort against Calzaghe who badly underestimated Robin, but Reid lost fair and square in a close one. Reid at that stage was better than most of Eubank's and Collins' challengers.
Noxy, Joe's will to win ? Surely that can't be questioned Where did that come from ? .... this comes from the fact that barely anyone who followed the pro game probably hadn't even heard of him as an amateur. Try 3 seasons on the trot in the ABA's against quality opposition winning every fight, stepping up a weight division each season. Something that i don't think has been repeated. His will to win only got stronger from there on and despite Calzaghe's other qualities, his desire to win was the biggest reason for his success. He never failed to win...and that goes beyond a lot of the poor opposition he faced, because he always came through be it the appalling Will McIntyre or the superb Mikkel Kessler.
The Reid fight was a majority. I agree Robin won, but will openly admit he was shook on the last minute. I was, funnily enough, around more people connected to Reid at the time of that fight than I was Henry.
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 25 Jan 2022, 07:48
by THEBUTCH
It was another game effort from Wharton...never expect anything less from Henry
That judge who had it a draw had a very bad night ! The other two cards were more accurate IMO and i thought Wharton got another boxing lesson at the highest level (not that i'd rate Reid especially highly in world class).
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
Posted: 25 Jan 2022, 08:04
by 595179
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022, 07:48
It was another game effort from Wharton...never expect anything less from Henry
That judge who had it a draw had a very bad night ! The other two cards were more accurate IMO and i thought Wharton got another boxing lesson at the highest level (not that i'd rate Reid especially highly in world class).
I saw Wharton live a number of times and laughed out loud once when he walked to the ring accompanied by Holding Out For A Hero by Bonnie Tyler. He was a good boxer, but had horrendous taste in music.
Re: Who had the best chin - Steve Collins or Chris Eubank (Senior)?
The first fight saw Collins dropped very heavily. And the second was a split decision win with Collins marauding like a bull in a china shop. And I say this as a huge Collins fans who watched all his fights live that were shown on Sky in the 90s.
well a man called liam you must be of irish stock , i agree they were tough fights problay the last big boxing match i watched with me da and brothers untill he got ill , first was on st pats weekend he was never gonna stop collins i was being obtuse in my first post , collins was tough as anything yea u could knock him down but hed come back again ,he really was the pride of the irish for me loved him my faviourt fighter ever
Yes mate, both parents Irish.
Collins was a huge figure for Irish boxing and brought some big attention. Class fighter and schooled in the hard gyms of America. Old school for sure and a hard man himself
I always wonder how a fighter with him and Joe Calzaghe would have panned out.
i know iam biased tho and ill always back steveo but iam glad it didnt happenen then at the time in career as collins was done after i think the carr fight i was still in secondary school in london and his win give such a big up to irish at the time glad he never thought joe ,though ive watched back a lot of collins fights at middleweight he was a good boxer undoubtedly his chin engine were his aces
Where did that come from ? .... this comes from the fact that barely anyone who followed the pro game probably hadn't even heard of him as an amateur. Try 3 seasons on the trot in the ABA's against quality opposition winning every fight, stepping up a weight division each season. Something that i don't think has been repeated. His will to win only got stronger from there on and despite Calzaghe's other qualities, his desire to win was the biggest reason for his success. He never failed to win...and that goes beyond a lot of the poor opposition he faced, because he always came through be it the appalling Will McIntyre or the superb Mikkel Kessler.
He was a good boxer, but had horrendous taste in music.