Round-by-Round: Deontay Wilder vs. Robert Helenius | FOX PPV - October 15, 2022

[marvelous marv]

He hit the back of his head on the ground

[margaret thatcher]

i mean, helly had been ktfo by right hands from gerald washington and duhaupas before, neither of whom are punchers. it didnt look like a typical ko punch even for wilder, but things add up enough that im not doubting it

[gilgamesh]

nothing suspect about it.

An arm punch, without planting his feet, and off the ropes?
Suspicious as heck

That's a legit shot bro. Right on the button. You don't need a lot of space, and you don't need maximum force to get a KO. If it's right on the button you can turn somebody's lights out.

[gilgamesh]

wilder vs ruiz seems the natural fight next, biggest all pbc fight they can have

And ideally both guys will get hurt and/or dropped in the bout because if that happens they can get at least 2 fights out of it.

[marvelous marv]

I selfishly want to see Wilder vs Joyce to see what happens

[gilgamesh]

I still want Wilder vs AJ.

Joyce against any of the top dogs right now would be fun though. Especially some of the power punching type dudes. I like them bombs away fights.

[ldlamb]

You all are ridiculous…Helenius was barely conscious.

He walked into a shot and was knocked out

[margaret thatcher]

You all are ridiculous…Helenius was barely conscious.

He walked into a shot and was knocked out

you all?

bruh, it's like 1, maybe 2 guys here doubting it

[HomicideHenry]

Saw the replay and Helenius walked directly into the shot and was sparked out. Wilder made the right decision coming in much lighter than he has been (ie, Fury 2 & Fury 3) but this is proof positive of the disparity between the top four heavyweights: Fury, Usyk, Wilder, Joshua and everyone else in the division.

No offense to all of these guys who are rated in the top 10 or 15 but they are clearly head and shoulders below in talent and ability. Helenius is probably kicking himself right now because he was the WBA #1 rated heavyweight, and he got knocked out in the first round of a non-title heavyweight match.



Quite frankly the dumbest strategy one can ever do is try to walk straight at Deontay Wilder. Fury did it proper with the feints and the jabs, and the herkey jerky head movement. Nobody in the division far as I can see can pull that off against Wilder except for Fury.

[gilgamesh]

Saw the replay and Helenius walked directly into the shot and was sparked out. Wilder made the right decision coming in much lighter than he has been (ie, Fury 2 & Fury 3) but this is proof positive of the disparity between the top four heavyweights: Fury, Usyk, Wilder, Joshua and everyone else in the division.

No offense to all of these guys who are rated in the top 10 or 15 but they are clearly head and shoulders below in talent and ability. Helenius is probably kicking himself right now because he was the WBA #1 rated heavyweight, and he got knocked out in the first round of a non-title heavyweight match.



Quite frankly the dumbest strategy one can ever do is try to walk straight at Deontay Wilder. Fury did it proper with the feints and the jabs, and the herkey jerky head movement. Nobody in the division far as I can see can pull that off against Wilder except for Fury.

Usyk would potentially have a good shot at it, but obviously I think we all would want to see a Unification between he and Fury before we see him facing off against Wilder.

[margaret thatcher]

Saw the replay and Helenius walked directly into the shot and was sparked out. Wilder made the right decision coming in much lighter than he has been (ie, Fury 2 & Fury 3) but this is proof positive of the disparity between the top four heavyweights: Fury, Usyk, Wilder, Joshua and everyone else in the division.

No offense to all of these guys who are rated in the top 10 or 15 but they are clearly head and shoulders below in talent and ability. Helenius is probably kicking himself right now because he was the WBA #1 rated heavyweight, and he got knocked out in the first round of a non-title heavyweight match.

Quite frankly the dumbest strategy one can ever do is try to walk straight at Deontay Wilder. Fury did it proper with the feints and the jabs, and the herkey jerky head movement. Nobody in the division far as I can see can pull that off against Wilder except for Fury.

feints, jabs, herky jerky head movement - sounds exactly like usyk

it's okay. another guy beating wilder doesnt mean they are better than fury too

[HomicideHenry]

Saw the replay and Helenius walked directly into the shot and was sparked out. Wilder made the right decision coming in much lighter than he has been (ie, Fury 2 & Fury 3) but this is proof positive of the disparity between the top four heavyweights: Fury, Usyk, Wilder, Joshua and everyone else in the division.

No offense to all of these guys who are rated in the top 10 or 15 but they are clearly head and shoulders below in talent and ability. Helenius is probably kicking himself right now because he was the WBA #1 rated heavyweight, and he got knocked out in the first round of a non-title heavyweight match.

Quite frankly the dumbest strategy one can ever do is try to walk straight at Deontay Wilder. Fury did it proper with the feints and the jabs, and the herkey jerky head movement. Nobody in the division far as I can see can pull that off against Wilder except for Fury.

feints, jabs, herky jerky head movement - sounds exactly like usyk

The difference is Usyk is so much smaller than Fury. Usyk would have to be the absolute busiest of his entire career to get away from Wilder, as reckless and wild swinging as he can be. Probably the most underrated aspect of Wilder is how deceptively fast his hands are whether he's throwing hooks or jabs.

Usyk don't have the luxury of using size to keep Wilder at bay like Fury, which means he would have to come straight at Wilder at some point to mix it up. That might be his undoing. Whole other kettle of fish facing a guy like Wilder than it is a bodybuilder like Joshua.

[margaret thatcher]

Saw the replay and Helenius walked directly into the shot and was sparked out. Wilder made the right decision coming in much lighter than he has been (ie, Fury 2 & Fury 3) but this is proof positive of the disparity between the top four heavyweights: Fury, Usyk, Wilder, Joshua and everyone else in the division.

No offense to all of these guys who are rated in the top 10 or 15 but they are clearly head and shoulders below in talent and ability. Helenius is probably kicking himself right now because he was the WBA #1 rated heavyweight, and he got knocked out in the first round of a non-title heavyweight match.

Quite frankly the dumbest strategy one can ever do is try to walk straight at Deontay Wilder. Fury did it proper with the feints and the jabs, and the herkey jerky head movement. Nobody in the division far as I can see can pull that off against Wilder except for Fury.

feints, jabs, herky jerky head movement - sounds exactly like usyk

The difference is Usyk is so much smaller than Fury. Usyk would have to be the absolute busiest of his entire career to get away from Wilder, as reckless and wild swinging as he can be. Probably the most underrated aspect of Wilder is how deceptively fast his hands are whether he's throwing hooks or jabs.

Usyk don't have the luxury of using size to keep Wilder at bay like Fury, which means he would have to come straight at Wilder at some point to mix it up. That might be his undoing. Whole other kettle of fish facing a guy like Wilder than it is a bodybuilder like Joshua.

Wilder stands around doing nothing but waiting on a right hand most of the time. his output isnt high at all, so i dont really see why usyk would have to be especially busy to beat him. sharp yes, busy no. usyk has great stamina anyway

artur szpilka won rounds off wilder implementing a pound shop version of what usyk is capable of

the style you described to beat wilder is EXACTLY what usyk does

[gilgamesh]

Saw the replay and Helenius walked directly into the shot and was sparked out. Wilder made the right decision coming in much lighter than he has been (ie, Fury 2 & Fury 3) but this is proof positive of the disparity between the top four heavyweights: Fury, Usyk, Wilder, Joshua and everyone else in the division.

No offense to all of these guys who are rated in the top 10 or 15 but they are clearly head and shoulders below in talent and ability. Helenius is probably kicking himself right now because he was the WBA #1 rated heavyweight, and he got knocked out in the first round of a non-title heavyweight match.

Quite frankly the dumbest strategy one can ever do is try to walk straight at Deontay Wilder. Fury did it proper with the feints and the jabs, and the herkey jerky head movement. Nobody in the division far as I can see can pull that off against Wilder except for Fury.

feints, jabs, herky jerky head movement - sounds exactly like usyk

The difference is Usyk is so much smaller than Fury. Usyk would have to be the absolute busiest of his entire career to get away from Wilder, as reckless and wild swinging as he can be. Probably the most underrated aspect of Wilder is how deceptively fast his hands are whether he's throwing hooks or jabs.

Usyk don't have the luxury of using size to keep Wilder at bay like Fury, which means he would have to come straight at Wilder at some point to mix it up. That might be his undoing. Whole other kettle of fish facing a guy like Wilder than it is a bodybuilder like Joshua.

Usyk is a versatile, and highly skilled dude. He could fight Wilder any number of ways. He could take the lead. Force Wilder to attack. Or whatever.

We'd all know going in pretty much what we're looking at with that one.

Usyk's skill vs Wilder's power.

Usyk would have to be on point all night, and Wilder has that bomb that could detonate on Usyk's chin at any minute and end the fight.

I suspect it'd be a fight where Usyk would win every round in which he didn't get dropped or hurt in some way.

It's also not out of the question he could hurt or KO Wilder. Usyk isn't exactly feather fisted. He's not a big puncher, but he doesn't have pillow hands either.

It'd be very interesting.

[margaret thatcher]

there's absolutely 0 reason that usyk would have to take the fight to wilder. the movement, jabbing, in and out....is exactly what would work for him against wilder. it would always be the most likely route to victory for him.

are we imagining wilder has some back foot slickster usyk has to chase down now homi?

[gilgamesh]

tthere's absolutely 0 reason that usyk would have to take the fight to wilder

He could mix it up. Come forward some, let Wilder come forward some. It's not always a death sentence to attack a puncher either. As long as you do it with intelligence.

[margaret thatcher]

sure, he could mix it it up, but there's absolutely nothing about wilder that would force usyk to come forward aggressively in order to win the fight

that's describing what kambo needed to do vs haney, not what usyk needs to do vs a guy with 1/4 his boxing skill

[HomicideHenry]

feints, jabs, herky jerky head movement - sounds exactly like usyk

The difference is Usyk is so much smaller than Fury. Usyk would have to be the absolute busiest of his entire career to get away from Wilder, as reckless and wild swinging as he can be. Probably the most underrated aspect of Wilder is how deceptively fast his hands are whether he's throwing hooks or jabs.

Usyk don't have the luxury of using size to keep Wilder at bay like Fury, which means he would have to come straight at Wilder at some point to mix it up. That might be his undoing. Whole other kettle of fish facing a guy like Wilder than it is a bodybuilder like Joshua.

Wilder stands around doing nothing but waiting on a right hand most of the time. his output isnt high at all, so i dont really see why usyk would have to be especially busy to beat him. sharp yes, busy no. usyk has great stamina anyway

artur szpilka won rounds off wilder implementing a pound shop version of what usyk is capable of

the style you described to beat wilder is EXACTLY what usyk does

The style works when you have a man who is big enough, tough enough, and skilled enough. Usyk has the skills but just how tough he actually is is up for debate. And he certainly is the smallest heavyweight of note in the division among the top 10 or 15.

Watch the first Fury fight. When Wilder was 212 (tonight he was 214) and how wild swinging Wilder was throwing a hell of a lot of punches even though most of them missed. But Wilder dropped Fury three times. Whether Usyk can get up from being dropped is another matter.

That's why Fury had to change his style against Wilder. That feint, slip and slide, leaning away, etc--- works as long as you are not getting hit. Wilder is bound to land at some point on Usyk. It's unavoidable. Usyk cannot emulate what Fury did in the rematch or the trilogy. He's simply not big enough to do it. He'll have to rely on the same strategy Fury used in the first fight.

[margaret thatcher]

Part of Fury being larger than Usyk is presenting a bigger target. Usyk can make himself harder to hit than Fury can. keep in mind usyk has never been dropped like fury has multiple times by other fighters (not just wilder) either. nor has he been shredded like fury was vs wallin.


like you said, usyk has the exact style to disarm wilder

[gilgamesh]

The difference is Usyk is so much smaller than Fury. Usyk would have to be the absolute busiest of his entire career to get away from Wilder, as reckless and wild swinging as he can be. Probably the most underrated aspect of Wilder is how deceptively fast his hands are whether he's throwing hooks or jabs.

Usyk don't have the luxury of using size to keep Wilder at bay like Fury, which means he would have to come straight at Wilder at some point to mix it up. That might be his undoing. Whole other kettle of fish facing a guy like Wilder than it is a bodybuilder like Joshua.

Wilder stands around doing nothing but waiting on a right hand most of the time. his output isnt high at all, so i dont really see why usyk would have to be especially busy to beat him. sharp yes, busy no. usyk has great stamina anyway

artur szpilka won rounds off wilder implementing a pound shop version of what usyk is capable of

the style you described to beat wilder is EXACTLY what usyk does

The style works when you have a man who is big enough, tough enough, and skilled enough. Usyk has the skills but just how tough he actually is is up for debate. And he certainly is the smallest heavyweight of note in the division among the top 10 or 15.

Watch the first Fury fight. When Wilder was 212 (tonight he was 214) and how wild swinging Wilder was throwing a hell of a lot of punches even though most of them missed. But Wilder dropped Fury three times. Whether Usyk can get up from being dropped is another matter.

That's why Fury had to change his style against Wilder. That feint, slip and slide, leaning away, etc--- works as long as you are not getting hit. Wilder is bound to land at some point on Usyk. It's unavoidable. Usyk cannot emulate what Fury did in the rematch or the trilogy. He's simply not big enough to do it. He'll have to rely on the same strategy Fury used in the first fight.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Usyk could defeat Wilder without being dropped at all.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if Wilder caught and blasted Usyk out.

Both are equally possible in my mind.

If they were to fight though I'd pick Usyk. I think he has the superior Boxing IQ, Speed, Defense. He basically has every single asset over Wilder except for power. So in my mind, he's not even really the underdog in the matchup.

I also think Usyk has the intangible things like a tougher mental makeup than Wilder has.

[HomicideHenry]

Wilder stands around doing nothing but waiting on a right hand most of the time. his output isnt high at all, so i dont really see why usyk would have to be especially busy to beat him. sharp yes, busy no. usyk has great stamina anyway

artur szpilka won rounds off wilder implementing a pound shop version of what usyk is capable of

the style you described to beat wilder is EXACTLY what usyk does

The style works when you have a man who is big enough, tough enough, and skilled enough. Usyk has the skills but just how tough he actually is is up for debate. And he certainly is the smallest heavyweight of note in the division among the top 10 or 15.

Watch the first Fury fight. When Wilder was 212 (tonight he was 214) and how wild swinging Wilder was throwing a hell of a lot of punches even though most of them missed. But Wilder dropped Fury three times. Whether Usyk can get up from being dropped is another matter.

That's why Fury had to change his style against Wilder. That feint, slip and slide, leaning away, etc--- works as long as you are not getting hit. Wilder is bound to land at some point on Usyk. It's unavoidable. Usyk cannot emulate what Fury did in the rematch or the trilogy. He's simply not big enough to do it. He'll have to rely on the same strategy Fury used in the first fight.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Usyk could defeat Wilder without being dropped at all.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if Wilder caught and blasted Usyk out.

Both are equally possible in my mind.

I'm not going to say it's impossible. I've seen enough fights in my lifetime where the impossible happened. However if one was really to place a bet on it, which is the more likely scenario with the highest probability?

I may as well call it right now. If Wilder fights the Ukrainian he's either going to win or it's going to be a draw. This is why I hate the fact that the undisputed fight was not made between Tyson Fury and Oleksandr Usyk. The Ukrainian team publicly stated they would not be ready until next year, so ultimately the blame lies with Usyk.

Because of this we will have a meaningless fight between Fury and Chisora, and Wilder will most likely gun for Usyk instead of Andy Ruiz for the WBC #1 contender match. Therefore jeopardizing the undisputed title match from happening because Wilder in all probability has a better chance of beating the Ukrainian than the Ukrainian has a chance of beating Wilder.

And nobody wants to see Fury-Wilder 4.

Jesus willing Usyk decides to face Fury instead of granting Wilder or anyone else an opportunity. Otherwise we are most definitely going to have a division in complete chaos.

That being said CAN Usyk beat Wilder? Sure. There's always a chance. But this is one of those scenarios where the risks outweigh the rewards. Why take on Wilder and potentially lose when if you are going to lose you would rather lose against the best heavyweight in the division.

In a perfect world I would rather see Joshua face Wilder and Fury face Usyk. The winner of both fights takes on each other. Undisputed should be the goal and not upsetting the apple cart with potentially dangerous matches. We can criticize Tyson Fury for taking on Chisora, but at least it's a fight that does not have the potential of upsetting the apple cart.

[margaret thatcher]

hopefully fury doesnt need 500m to fight usyk anymore

[gilgamesh]

Well for the record Henry. Everything that I'm hearing out of Usyk and his team is that their only real interest is Fury. I don't think he particularly even wants to fight anyone else until he fights Fury.

Fury on the other hand, I believe would probably rather fight Joshua or Charr.

We shall see though. We'll see how things shake down in 2023.

[HomicideHenry]

Well for the record Henry. Everything that I'm hearing out of Usyk and his team is that their only real interest is Fury. I don't think he particularly even wants to fight anyone else until he fights Fury.

Good. Cuz the last thing us boxing fans need is any more deflections and distractions and excuses from making the undisputed fight happen.

[Heretic]

Well that ended pretty much how I feared it would.

Helenius is just too slow and open to go against power like Wilder has.

Well at least he came out trying. Went on his shield like a viking should. Was trying to implement that aggressive game plan.

Wilder did lot better than I thought he could do. Beautiful counter with a short punch under fire. Bit like I hoped it would go just the other way around

I hope we see Helenius again. He can still beat the lower top ten guys on his night. I would pick healthy Helenius to beat Whyte for example.