BoxRec

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 08:21

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20 Name me ANY other fighter that has come out of a 3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

I think I have one..... Is Peter McNeeley in the Hall of Fame?

He would be if Roberto Duran had fought him.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

elmersalsa wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 18:46 None of you could bring another fighter that has won like the win of Duran, who was a washed up legend, at age 37 beating a younger, stronger, bigger, and taller foe. It was to me, a stuff of legends.

40 year old Manny Pacquiao beating the Bigger, Younger, Stronger, Taller Keith Thurman.

34 or so year old Oleksandr Usyk beat the bigger, younger, stronger, Taller Anthony Joshua twice.


This is stuff that has happened within the last 5 years. I don't feel like racking my brain all night, but there's 2 examples right there bud, and I didn't even have to think that hard for those.

Now....

Your turn.

Name me ANY other fighter that has come out of a 3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Manny Pacquiao over Keith Thurman? Was Manny Pacquiao the one that is accused of steroids? Gimme a break.

What Keith Thurman has done?

The next example you come up with is Usyk?

Those wins do not come close to Duran's. And you know it. Good try but I think you was talking out of your ass, not your logic.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

elmersalsa wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 18:46

Now....

Your turn.

Name me ANY other fighter that has come out of a 3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Vicente Saldivar when he won back the WBC World featherweight championship from an outstanding champion Jose Legra, and then took the crown from formidable Johnny Famechon. That right there to me is more impressive than what Sugar Ray did acgainst Marvelous. He had to beat 2 outstanding foes in 1970 to win the title back.

Check mate!

Gilgamesh, who tried to downplay Duran's win over Barkley with Pacquiao over Thurman?

That wasn't a good comparison at all. Pacman wasn't as washed up as Duran in the first place. He was still relevant in the boxing world, even with his loss by KO with Juan Manuel Marquez.

Duran was in TOTAL OBLIVION in the mid 80s decade, washed up and done. Nobody gave him a shot to win another crown ever in his life! Nobody!

And then Usyk? Who the fornicate is he? Ain't he the world champion of the weak heavyweight division now? GTFOH!

Ah, Usyk was also fighting in his 4th weight class. SMH

This is a great joke, man. It is. Don't get personal, now.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 18:45

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

elmersalsa wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 18:46 None of you could bring another fighter that has won like the win of Duran, who was a washed up legend, at age 37 beating a younger, stronger, bigger, and taller foe. It was to me, a stuff of legends.

40 year old Manny Pacquiao beating the Bigger, Younger, Stronger, Taller Keith Thurman.

34 or so year old Oleksandr Usyk beat the bigger, younger, stronger, Taller Anthony Joshua twice.


This is stuff that has happened within the last 5 years. I don't feel like racking my brain all night, but there's 2 examples right there bud, and I didn't even have to think that hard for those.

Now....

Your turn.

Name me ANY other fighter that has come out of a 3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Manny Pacquiao over Keith Thurman? Was Manny Pacquiao the one that is accused of steroids? Gimme a break.

What Keith Thurman has done?

The next example you come up with is Usyk?

Those wins do not come close to Duran's. And you know it. Good try but I think you was talking out of your ass, not your logic.

Thurman and AJ are both either more or as accomplished as Barkley.

We also got Fitzsimmons over Corbett.

And I don't need to spend 3 more posts agreeing with myself

I'll give it to you on Saldivar, but I do gotta acknowledge that particular win doesn't measure up to Leonard over Hagler and surely you'd even have to admit that one yes?

And for the record. I didn't try to "downplay Duran's win over Barkley". I think Duran's win over Barkley is fantastic. I just said it's not as impressive or rare of a feat as what Leonard accomplished by beating Hagler, and in being able to give more than 1 example. I've proven my point.

Oh...Bernard Hopkins vs Antonio Tarver is another one for ya of a guy beating a Younger, Taller, Stronger guy.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 21:00

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 18:45

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

40 year old Manny Pacquiao beating the Bigger, Younger, Stronger, Taller Keith Thurman.

34 or so year old Oleksandr Usyk beat the bigger, younger, stronger, Taller Anthony Joshua twice.


This is stuff that has happened within the last 5 years. I don't feel like racking my brain all night, but there's 2 examples right there bud, and I didn't even have to think that hard for those.

Now....

Your turn.

Name me ANY other fighter that has come out of a 3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Manny Pacquiao over Keith Thurman? Was Manny Pacquiao the one that is accused of steroids? Gimme a break.

What Keith Thurman has done?

The next example you come up with is Usyk?

Those wins do not come close to Duran's. And you know it. Good try but I think you was talking out of your ass, not your logic.

Thurman and AJ are both either more or as accomplished as Barkley.

We also got Fitzsimmons over Corbett.

And I don't need to spend 3 more posts agreeing with myself

I'll give it to you on Saldivar, but I do gotta acknowledge that particular win doesn't measure up to Leonard over Hagler and surely you'd even have to admit that one yes?

And for the record. I didn't try to "downplay Duran's win over Barkley". I think Duran's win over Barkley is fantastic. I just said it's not as impressive or rare of a feat as what Leonard accomplished by beating Hagler, and in being able to give more than 1 example. I've proven my point.

Oh...Bernard Hopkins vs Antonio Tarver is another one for ya of a guy beating a Younger, Taller, Stronger guy.

Say what? Thurman and AJ are as most accomplished as Barkley?

The great Bob Fitzsimmons wasn't washed up.

Vicente Saldivar's win over Johnny Famechon and Jose Legra were more impressive than Sugar Ray over Marvelous. Marvelous was fading like crazy. Famechon and Legra were still in their primes.

Bernard Hopkins was still relevant and wasn't called as washed up and done like Duran. And it wasn't Hopkin's fourth weight class.

In the other hand, Duran was in TOTAL OBLIVION in the mid 80s decade. The boxing writers of all over the world, not just in America, gave him
no shot to win another world championship in his lifetime. Duran proved everybody wrong, including me. I guess that that was a miracle.

Look I don't give a sh*t Elmer.

I've won the argument. I'm right. You refuse to see it. I'm tired of explaining vision to the blind.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 14:38 Look I don't give a sh*t Elmer.

I've won the argument. I'm right. You refuse to see it. I'm tired of explaining vision to the blind.

He won't stop. You never should've engaged.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 18:51

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

elmersalsa wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 18:46

Now....

Your turn.

Name me ANY other fighter that has come out of a 3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Vicente Saldivar when he won back the WBC World featherweight championship from an outstanding champion Jose Legra, and then took the crown from formidable Johnny Famechon. That right there to me is more impressive than what Sugar Ray did acgainst Marvelous. He had to beat 2 outstanding foes in 1970 to win the title back.

Check mate!

Checkmate?

Saldivar was retired less than two years when he beat Legra. And Legra is not in the Hall of Fame. So no, that doesn't count. Nice try.

Guys who beat someone better than Barkley when they were at least 37?

Here are a few:
- Archie Moore was 37 when he beat Jimmy Bivins. Scored wins over Harold Johnson when he was 37, 38, and 40. Beat Joey Maxim when he was 39 and 40.

-Jersey Joe Walcott was 37 and 38 when he beat Charles.

- Dick Tiger was 37 when he beat Jose Torres and 39 when he beat Benvenuti.

Beating someone at 37 who was at least as good as Iran Barkley has been done numerous times in boxing.
Being someone like Hagler after a long layoff has never been done.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 16:29

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 18:51

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20






Now....

Your turn.

Name me ANY other fighter that has come out of a 3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Vicente Saldivar when he won back the WBC World featherweight championship from an outstanding champion Jose Legra, and then took the crown from formidable Johnny Famechon. That right there to me is more impressive than what Sugar Ray did acgainst Marvelous. He had to beat 2 outstanding foes in 1970 to win the title back.

Check mate!

Checkmate?

Saldivar was retired less than two years when he beat Legra. And Legra is not in the Hall of Fame. So no, that doesn't count. Nice try.

Guys who beat someone better than Barkley when they were at least 37?

Here are a few:
- Archie Moore was 37 when he beat Jimmy Bivins. Scored wins over Harold Johnson when he was 37, 38, and 40. Beat Joey Maxim when he was 39 and 40.

-Jersey Joe Walcott was 37 and 38 when he beat Charles.

- Dick Tiger was 37 when he beat Jose Torres and 39 when he beat Benvenuti.

Beating someone at 37 who was at least as good as Iran Barkley has been done numerous times in boxing.
Being someone like Hagler after a long layoff has never been done.

And you still missed the point. None of those examples matches Duran's win over Barkley. Duran was in TOTAL OBLIVION, no shot at being champion again and was fighting in his 4th weight class being WASHED UP.

The boxing writers were asking him to retire. That he didn't had anything else to prove and not to keep losing his image as a great fighter by losing to second rated fighters.

Jersey Joe Walcott wasn't fighting in his 4th weight class. He wasn't washed up, either.

Archie Moore was still relevant as light-heavyweight world champion when he defeated all those guys.

But, Duran was a NO SHOT to win anything. In the middle of the 80s decade, Duran was an afterthought. A has been. Done!

And like a legend, came back and got my mouth opened. This guy gotta be in the top 5 greatest pound per pound all-time boxers. He had to be. It was super incredible.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 14:38 Look I don't give a sh*t Elmer.

I've won the argument. I'm right. You refuse to see it. I'm tired of explaining vision to the blind.

What argument you have won? I believe otherwise.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:18

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 14:38 Look I don't give a sh*t Elmer.

I've won the argument. I'm right. You refuse to see it. I'm tired of explaining vision to the blind.

What argument you have won? I believe otherwise.

I hope you know that you sound like a total douche. I am not a Leonard fan, Never liked his personality at all he seemed fake. But even as an admitted hater I can admit beating Hagler after such a lengthy retirement is a feat that would be next to impossible to top.
You lost the debate.
Oh and you are still a douche

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:58

elmersalsa wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:18

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 14:38 Look I don't give a sh*t Elmer.

I've won the argument. I'm right. You refuse to see it. I'm tired of explaining vision to the blind.

What argument you have won? I believe otherwise.

I hope you know that you sound like a total douche. I am not a Leonard fan, Never liked his personality at all he seemed fake. But even as an admitted hater I can admit beating Hagler after such a lengthy retirement is a feat that would be next to impossible to top.
You lost the debate.
Oh and you are still a douche

He doesn't know. He knows nothing.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 18:51

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20

elmersalsa wrote: ↑09 Dec 2022, 18:46

3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Vicente Saldivar when he won back the WBC World featherweight championship from an outstanding champion Jose Legra,
Check mate!

How many years did Saldivar have off?

Is Legra in the IBHOF?

Was Legra a World Champion?

This argument is like Michael Myers; just when you think he's finally toast, he rises up and comes back again and on and on it goes, rinse and repeat.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:58

elmersalsa wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:18

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 14:38 Look I don't give a sh*t Elmer.

I've won the argument. I'm right. You refuse to see it. I'm tired of explaining vision to the blind.

What argument you have won? I believe otherwise.

I hope you know that you sound like a total douche. I am not a Leonard fan, Never liked his personality at all he seemed fake. But even as an admitted hater I can admit beating Hagler after such a lengthy retirement is a feat that would be next to impossible to top.
You lost the debate.
Oh and you are still a douche

Well, fuuck you for getting personal. I don't think what Duran did with Barkley would be able to be done again. It's a matter of opinion.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 19:21

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:58

elmersalsa wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:18

What argument you have won? I believe otherwise.

I hope you know that you sound like a total douche. I am not a Leonard fan, Never liked his personality at all he seemed fake. But even as an admitted hater I can admit beating Hagler after such a lengthy retirement is a feat that would be next to impossible to top.
You lost the debate.
Oh and you are still a douche

He doesn't know. He knows nothing.

You don't know nothing, either

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 13:51

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:58

elmersalsa wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:18

What argument you have won? I believe otherwise.

I hope you know that you sound like a total douche. I am not a Leonard fan, Never liked his personality at all he seemed fake. But even as an admitted hater I can admit beating Hagler after such a lengthy retirement is a feat that would be next to impossible to top.
You lost the debate.
Oh and you are still a douche

Well, fuuck you for getting personal. I don't think what Duran did with Barkley would be able to be done again. It's a matter of opinion.

And I already pointed out to you that it already has been done again since. Thanks for playing.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 06:18

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 18:51

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 02:20
3 year retirement to beat a Long Reigning Hall of Fame World Champion in his comeback bout.

Vicente Saldivar when he won back the WBC World featherweight championship from an outstanding champion Jose Legra,
Check mate!

How many years did Saldivar have off?

Is Legra in the IBHOF?

Was Legra a World Champion?

Saldivar was off for 3 years. And of course, Legra should be in the hall of fame. If overrated Barry McGuigan is in, Jose Legra and a bunch of others, like Johnny Famechon should be in, too.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 13:54

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 06:18

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 18:51
Vicente Saldivar when he won back the WBC World featherweight championship from an outstanding champion Jose Legra,
Check mate!

How many years did Saldivar have off?

Is Legra in the IBHOF?

Was Legra a World Champion?

Saldivar was off for 3 years. And of course, Legra should be in the hall of fame. If overrated Barry McGuigan is in, Jose Legra and a bunch of others, like Johnny Famechon should be in, too.

Hey you know who else ain't in the Hall of Fame?

Iran Barkley.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 13:53

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 13:51

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:58

I hope you know that you sound like a total douche. I am not a Leonard fan, Never liked his personality at all he seemed fake. But even as an admitted hater I can admit beating Hagler after such a lengthy retirement is a feat that would be next to impossible to top.
You lost the debate.
Oh and you are still a douche

Well, fuuck you for getting personal. I don't think what Duran did with Barkley would be able to be done again. It's a matter of opinion.

And I already pointed out to you that it already has been done again since. Thanks for playing.

Nope. It has not been done. Thanks. Now I got about 7 guys against me. Interesting.

Because you're wrong, and it's as plain to see as the Sun shining in the sky.

So quit wasting everyone's time with your opinions on this thread. We get it. You're wrong, and you're stubborn. F*ck off.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 13:53

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 13:51

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022, 18:58

I hope you know that you sound like a total douche. I am not a Leonard fan, Never liked his personality at all he seemed fake. But even as an admitted hater I can admit beating Hagler after such a lengthy retirement is a feat that would be next to impossible to top.
You lost the debate.
Oh and you are still a douche

Well, fuuck you for getting personal. I don't think what Duran did with Barkley would be able to be done again. It's a matter of opinion.

And I already pointed out to you that it already has been done again since. Thanks for playing.

Nope. It has not been done ever. Not on that magnitude. Duran win over Barkley is a stuff of legends. Many people outside this forum would agree.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 13:57 Because you're wrong, and it's as plain to see as the Sun shining in the sky.

So quit wasting everyone's time with your opinions on this thread. We get it. You're wrong, and you're stubborn. F*ck off.

Nobody asked you to join in into the conversation in the first place. This is a forum. I ain't wasting no one's time. But, it's kind of amazing and amusing that 5 to 7 guys disagree against one, without an outright evidence. SMH.

Duran's win over Barkley to me, was much more incredible and impressive than Sugar Ray win over Marvelous. What's wrong with that opinion. Is it the truth? To me? Yes! To each one his own.