HOW TO AVOID COUNCIL TAX BY OVERHAND RIGHT

[jamesmcdonnell]

Remember, the Labour Government haven't had the benefit of selling Nationalised industries or North Sea Gas/Oil to help balance the books!

Labour inherited a tired and depressed nation, with crumbling schools, disenchanted and collapsing NHS, high unemployment despite 26 changes to the method of counting, high interest rates, inflation and a downtrodden econonmy.

Sure, some of the billions Labour have invested in education and health has been wasted but when you're talking on the scale we are, perfection isn't possible.

Remember how you used to fear for your job because the tories WANTED 3-4 million unemployed so that you were scared to resist change.

Which is how they powered the crushing of the union movement.

Closed communities in the North of England....

And remember, THEY introduced VAT. So when we talk or bemoan stealth taxes, remember the TORIES invented them, remember that they sold off national assets that ALREADY belonged to EVERYONE to the FEW.

Remember how they raped and pillaged our heavy industry, only to buy in subsidised imports from Germany or SOuth Africa.

Remember they preferred to import coal from Columbia, where they employ 9 year olds in horrendous conditions to dig it up, or SOuth Africa where aparthied still reigned or from Germany who enjoyed subsidies to product there coal.

Remember how they CLOSED hospitals, how the current MRSA virus started with the privatising of cleaning facilities and cutting ward matrons - the they're now claiming they want to re-introduce!

Remember how the balance of trade defecit was so high we wondered how we'd ever clear it.

Remember how they almost broke STERLING playing the EU game without a referendum.

Remember how they took away school milk, remember how they made you pay for eye-tests, dental appointments....

Remember, the poll tax riots, the miners strike, the closing of shipyards, the dereliction of duty in South Yorkshire, Wales, Scotland and other areas they didn't give a SHIOT about because they voted Labour.

Remember the LUTON riots, the London riots....

So when we bemoan the Labour Goverment, remember please HOW BAD it was.....

We might not like Sven Goran Erikkson but it doesn't mean we want Graham Taylor back.

Quite right Dave, I for one will NEVER forget what the tories did to this country, and their legacy lives on, because they killed socialism forever. They've turned us all into selfish bastards, everyone is just obsessed now with raking in as much as possible and fornicate everyone else seems to be the prevailing attitude. They almost destroyed the teaching establishment and the nursing profession during their time.


What really fucks me off in all that you mentioned is the selling off of our national industries. BT, which the taxpayer fornicating paid for, gets sold off and privatised, the railways, the NHS would have been next given enough time to do the dirty work. These are all industries which the people of this country paid for and built. Look at the fornicating state of the railways and the tube network, falling to fornicating pieces due to underinvestment. A sad fornicating shambles.

A canvasser tried to hand me a tory leaflet the other day, and I looked at him like he was trying to hand me a fresh dog turd.

[DavidPayne]

Good man.

BT, Gas, Electric, Water, British Rail - the coal industry, stripped down so John Budge could afford it.

Cecil Parkinson was once asked if he had any sympathy with coal miners, who were penniless and losing their homes during the dark months of the miners strike in 1984, his consider response, which I feel summarised the humanity of the tory party and the depth of the economic strategy behind the decision to close pits:


Did they worry about us in 73-74?

They waited a decade but they had their revenge....evil, spiteful bastards.

[J]

just done a few calcs on oil for you guys how sick is this out of 80 pence per litre 64 is tax. the rest is transport cost, and refining cost.

the other thing is its taxed heavily on import sand then the vat tax thru the pump which is already 80 odd percent is tax on tax.


fornicating wrong if you ask me that. paying tax on a product that is mostly expensive cos its taxed so high.


bastards, glad i dont own a car

But even though tax is a fornicating sickening part of petrol costs, the companies like shell and BP are still making £1/2 trillion a second or something. Arses. We could never get it to happen, but imagine if every car driver in Britain just didn't drive for one day. That would fornicate them up so much it would be funnier than Riddick Bowe's comeback.

P.S. This thread is quality. I think it;s becoming our version of the Rob Calloway thread.

bollox shell made ten billion worldwide last year where you get a trilliion a second I dont know.

misinformed nonsense. In addtion its not gasoline through the pump where they make their money in this country as Ive already said so you stopping driving you car would make fornicate all difference except to you. So go ahead mate. HAPPY WALKING.


More money is made in trading the oil, in industry, exploration and production, heating, lubes, refining the products not just petrol dude. thats a tiny part of it.


Secondly yeah you could boycott the pumps bit that probably is gonna send the economy down the swanny, cos the gvt tax it so high = recession = job losses so be careful what you wish for mate.

[Graham Brett]

This Labour Government are the biggest bunch of lying, cheating wasters I have ever seen.

They have done fornicate all for hard working people, enterprising people, people who create jobs.

One of the reasons the economy has been strong is recent years is because Thatcher destroyed the trade unions.

Before that if you told a civil servant or shipworker or miner to "pull their finger out" they would be out on strike demanding all sorts.

The trade unions destroyed productivity.

[Loftgroov]

Well, they may exist in 40+ years when I retire, but they won’t payout anything worthwhile. Quite simply the average life expectancy that continues to increase has helped to screw over the pensions concept. They simply cannot get enough money from the pension funds to cover the projected future outgoings. I expect to work until I die..more or less. Sure..I might get “something”…but it would be a pittance compared to whatever I had paid in.

As you say, ISA’s etc, or better still a second property would be a considerably better option. Imagine living off the rent money coming in each month as compared to some pultry pension sum instead that you contributed to for your whole working life. No contest…

Property KO1 Pensions

Yeah, but property is so over priced at the moment.

Another interest rate rise or two and income will not cover borrowings or anywhere near it.

You only have to look at who's buying and who's selling, to see who the mugs are and who the smart guys are.

That said, proprty over the longterm always appears to go up. I find it odd that just recently they are talking about the housing market being in the doldrums..because it has fallen 0.6% or something daft, when it has gone up 20% a year or something recently. So the net result is people have done alright I say!!! (homeowners that is)

[Graham Brett]

Well, they may exist in 40+ years when I retire, but they won’t payout anything worthwhile. Quite simply the average life expectancy that continues to increase has helped to screw over the pensions concept. They simply cannot get enough money from the pension funds to cover the projected future outgoings. I expect to work until I die..more or less. Sure..I might get “something”…but it would be a pittance compared to whatever I had paid in.

As you say, ISA’s etc, or better still a second property would be a considerably better option. Imagine living off the rent money coming in each month as compared to some pultry pension sum instead that you contributed to for your whole working life. No contest…

Property KO1 Pensions

Yeah, but property is so over priced at the moment.

Another interest rate rise or two and income will not cover borrowings or anywhere near it.

You only have to look at who's buying and who's selling, to see who the mugs are and who the smart guys are.

That said, proprty over the longterm always appears to go up. I find it odd that just recently they are talking about the housing market being in the doldrums..because it has fallen 0.6% or something daft, when it has gone up 20% a year or something recently. So the net result is people have done alright I say!!! (homeowners that is)

Property is the best performing asset class over the past 100 years.

[Loftgroov]

The Labour party are just as bad as the Tories ever were in my opinion, and furthermore what is to suggest that if the Tories got back into power they would run with the same policies they did back in the 1980s-90s? If “New Labour” is allowed to come about then why not “New Conservative”?

My over-riding problem with Labour is their constant quest to take as much money off me as possible and hand it to someone “disadvantaged”. I’m not from a rich background, nor even middle class background, but I was told that if you “work hard at school” and “stay out of trouble with the law” you’ll do well for yourself.

Bollocks.

Labour have made it so that if you can’t be arsed to go to work,well… don’t worry Charlene…., Loftgroov is being taxed at a rate to keep you and your 3 kids (one white, one black, one brown) in your council flat for plenty of time to come. So sit back, put Tricia on, and enjoy yourself!!!! You’ve “earnt” it!!!

Under new Labour is you’re not black, asian, disabled, homosexual, jewish, eastern european, “suffering from depression” or a “hyperactive disorder”, living in a caravan, having 7 kids you can’t afford, then you can f**k off….

Why do I tow the line? What is the point?

The Tories might have been a bit “I’m alright jack”, but then at least the motive was to reward those hard-working people of this country that actually WORKED, and WERE’NT SOCIAL DEVIANTS. Labour rewards single mums, petty crime, and being a dosser. Great bunch they are.

I’ll be voting blue. (I’m a white heterosexual male you see…i.e. “scum” under New Labour)

[Matchfixer]

The best way to pay less tax is to vote Conservative.

Labour and Liberal Democrats are comitted to raising taxes so if you want more money in your pocket don't vote for them.

Ultimately everyone is looking out for themselves (and rightly so) no matter what anyone says.

[Loftgroov]

Conservative = work hard, reward yourself

Labour = work hard, to reward someone else

FACT

[Graham Brett]

The Labour party are just as bad as the Tories ever were in my opinion, and furthermore what is to suggest that if the Tories got back into power they would run with the same policies they did back in the 1980s-90s? If “New Labour” is allowed to come about then why not “New Conservative”?

My over-riding problem with Labour is their constant quest to take as much money off me as possible and hand it to someone “disadvantaged”. I’m not from a rich background, nor even middle class background, but I was told that if you “work hard at school” and “stay out of trouble with the law” you’ll do well for yourself.

Bollocks.

Labour have made it so that if you can’t be arsed to go to work,well… don’t worry Charlene…., Loftgroov is being taxed at a rate to keep you and your 3 kids (one white, one black, one brown) in your council flat for plenty of time to come. So sit back, put Tricia on, and enjoy yourself!!!! You’ve “earnt” it!!!

Under new Labour is you’re not black, asian, disabled, homosexual, jewish, eastern european, “suffering from depression” or a “hyperactive disorder”, living in a caravan, having 7 kids you can’t afford, then you can f**k off….

Why do I tow the line? What is the point?

The Tories might have been a bit “I’m alright jack”, but then at least the motive was to reward those hard-working people of this country that actually WORKED, and WERE’NT SOCIAL DEVIANTS. Labour rewards single mums, petty crime, and being a dosser. Great bunch they are.

I’ll be voting blue. (I’m a white heterosexual male you see…i.e. “scum” under New Labour)

Top man.

Good for you.

The only people well off under Labour is some 17 year old slapper who has four kids by four different men, and has slept with about 70 parners.

She will get her 5 bedroom council house and all sorts of benefits.

Me, well I come from a council estate in west london, but have worked hard enough to buy a house in the suburbs and earn a half denecty living. So what do labour do, they theive off me, so they can give hand outs to lazy bastards with no brain cells.

fornicate Labour and fornicate the lazy sponging bastards, black, white, brown, pink, whatever.

[knockout]

Loftgroov: as a fellow hard working tax payer i understand what you are saying re the lazy fcuker who just sign on.....

But it isnt a race thing you make it out to be, you think blacks and asians pay less tax??

it as simple as this, there are scum and there are those of us who work for a living....

[Loftgroov]

On an individual basis, no blacks and asians do not pay less tax. On a proportional basis, blacks and asians pay less tax (as a result of being unemployed and paying less taxes) and are more likely to commit a criminal offense.

Heard of any white-on-white drive by shootings recently? Nah.. me neither.

Not my "view", but Home Office statistics.

[Priff]

Yeah, but property is so over priced at the moment.

Another interest rate rise or two and income will not cover borrowings or anywhere near it.

You only have to look at who's buying and who's selling, to see who the mugs are and who the smart guys are.

That said, proprty over the longterm always appears to go up. I find it odd that just recently they are talking about the housing market being in the doldrums..because it has fallen 0.6% or something daft, when it has gone up 20% a year or something recently. So the net result is people have done alright I say!!! (homeowners that is)

Property is the best performing asset class over the past 100 years.

But the thing is, people often can't last the long term.
If you buy a house for 300K and you can only afford £750 a month and your mortgage is £750pm, it's brown trousers time.

If your payments go up to £1000+ per month you'll need to sell. If your house is only worth 250K by then, you have no options, your just plain f*cked.

The fact that your house will go back to it's original price in 5 years won't help you.

It's the peaks and troughs were the money is made and lost.
1) People have borrowed up to the eyeballs.
2) Mortgage Payments are going up.
The final piece in the puzzle is if house prices go down significantly.

Then X amount of people are buggered.

[Loftgroov]

Well as a non-home owner waiting to get on the proprty ladder, I hope interest rates do go up and people are buggered. Serve them right for jumping on the bandwagon and mortgaging up to their eyeballs.

Won't happen though I don't think. Toomany home owners now..the government would stop it happening somehow.

[knockout]

On an individual basis, no blacks and asians do not pay less tax. On a proportional basis, blacks and asians pay less tax (as a result of being unemployed and paying less taxes) and are more likely to commit a criminal offense.

Heard of any white-on-white drive by shootings recently? Nah.. me neither.

Not my "view", but Home Office statistics.

fair enough cannot argue with the stats, but still, your comment:

"Under new Labour is you’re not black, asian, disabled, homosexual, jewish, eastern european, “suffering from depression” or a “hyperactive disorder”, living in a caravan, having 7 kids you can’t afford, then you can f**k off…. "

is a bit wide of the mark.....

[jamesmcdonnell]

On an individual basis, no blacks and asians do not pay less tax. On a proportional basis, blacks and asians pay less tax (as a result of being unemployed and paying less taxes) and are more likely to commit a criminal offense.

Heard of any white-on-white drive by shootings recently? Nah.. me neither.

Not my "view", but Home Office statistics.

Where you are that may be the case. In London asians perform the best at school and a huge proportion run their own businesses. Indian and Pakistanis in London have done very well for themselves by and large.

As for criminal offences, depends which type of offence you're on about.

Young black males sadly are doing very badly at school, and have very high unemployment rates.

Funnily enough though, young afro-carribbean women are one of the faster growing sectors in terms of new employment in this country.

[jamesmcdonnell]

On an individual basis, no blacks and asians do not pay less tax. On a proportional basis, blacks and asians pay less tax (as a result of being unemployed and paying less taxes) and are more likely to commit a criminal offense.

Heard of any white-on-white drive by shootings recently? Nah.. me neither.

Not my "view", but Home Office statistics.

fair enough cannot argue with the stats, but still, your comment:

"Under new Labour is you’re not black, asian, disabled, homosexual, jewish, eastern european, “suffering from depression” or a “hyperactive disorder”, living in a caravan, having 7 kids you can’t afford, then you can f**k off…. "

is a bit wide of the mark.....

I'd like to see these statistics loftgroov is supposedly quoting from, my guess it that the statement is pretty inaccurate, especially where Asians are concerned. Bearing in mind though that London is unlike the rest of the country where ethnic minorities are concerned.

Anyone else think there needs to be a separate politics forum...this thread is taking over the bloody forum!

[DavidPayne]

On an individual basis, no blacks and asians do not pay less tax. On a proportional basis, blacks and asians pay less tax (as a result of being unemployed and paying less taxes) and are more likely to commit a criminal offense.

Heard of any white-on-white drive by shootings recently? Nah.. me neither.

Not my "view", but Home Office statistics.

I take it you want all the third generation and fourth generation ethnic minorities who, in truth, are as British as you kicked off the island too?

That way we get rid of our supposed crime, tax and unemployment problem.

Typical narrow-minded thinking.

Do you think it was cheaper on the tax payer to pay for 4million people to be unemployed under the tories then?

And as for NEW conservative, do me a favour, they couldn't even find a NEW leader - they'd had to dig one up who thought up POLL tax.....

They didn't have ANY new ideas in 1997 which is why they hung on as long as they could to wait for the 6 month economic boom to hypnotise everyone who'd endured 16 years of bust.

Tory politics is based on FEAR, SHORT-TERMism, PROTECTING the FEW and lining their own pockets at the expense of the many, FLAWED economics.

And if you think the ONLY thing you tax has been spent on is catering for single mums with kids, I'll ask you whether the social destruction and crushing of community that occured under the TORIES is any less to blame than the LABOUR government trying to support the ill-educated, under-motivated, detached and dissillusioned products of that era?

You dont think some of your money, just a bit, is being spent on NEW hospitals to replace the ones forced to close under the TORIES, or perhaps the billions poured into the infrastructure of schools, supplying tens of thousands of PC's, software and tools to educate and inspire.

How about the audacity of being asked if you wanted to buy shares that already belong to you? British Gas, British Rail, British Telecom, Electricity.....they ALL belonged, in part, to you - did anyone ask you if it was OK to sell YOUR share to the FEW who could afford it?


PRIVATISATION was arguably the biggest robbery this country has ever endured and yet you'd prefer to look at taxation as you now pay as an highway robbery - you've got a short memory....?

What about increasing VAT?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I just caught Michael Howard on TV, and I was almost sick to my stomach listening to that slavering drooling pudendum, he has to be the biggest hypocrite in politics. He had the gall to say 'the people want a government which is acountable!"

What!!!!

Does everyone remember what a smug, self-serving, lying and devious fornicator he was when he was in power? He used to sit their sneering and grinning, knowing full well that due to their huge majiroty, the tories could vote in almost any legislation they wanted.


I think It's sad that people seem to think their problems will go away if we stop immigration. I agree there should be sensible limits to all things.

I'm fornicating piss poor, and I don't own any property, but I'm not going to blame anyone but myself, and my family for never making any bloody money. It's in my hands to change it, and I'm certainly not going to blame some poor pudendum who has spent the equivalent of 2 years wages so he can get smuggled from Afghanistan by lorry, dinghy and freight train, and find himself poor, cold and very much alone in our country. Anyone who is prepared to endure something like that, has every right to try and make a living for themselves in this country, and provided they aren't taking the piss (which I am sure the majority are not), fair play and good luck.

Lest we forget, the vast riches (this is STILL one of the Richest nations on earth) and trading infrastructure of this country was built on the backs of the forced labour and raping of resources of our huge empire, which we only kissed goodbye to after the 2nd world war.

It amazes me that people get pissed about immigration when we went all over the world and took what we wanted, when and from whom as we saw fit....If it wasn't for that, this country would be a tiny and far from prosperour bit part player in world politics. Live by the sword and all that....

[J]

FAR TOO DEEP FOR MY POLITICAL THINKING, to me its one set of lying pudenda or another.

Ill vote for who will leave me best off cos I dont believe half the bollox promises they make anyway.

tory or labour its a bit like being asked would you like to be pissed on or shat on really aint it.

think its time to vote for change tho.

just cos i cant stand that smug fornicator blair for another term. (you know he will change his mind and stay in no matter he says).

[DavidPayne]

To be honest I think Tony Blair is a thoroughly decent bloke, Idont find him smug - which considering the size of his majority is no mean feat.

I think he went into Iraq for the right reasons at the time, whatever the conspiracy theorist say to the contrary and I think, whilst those reasons may have proved flawed, the end result was a positive for the people fo Iraq, the Middle-East and the wider world.

Tony Blair inherited a country in a shambles, down at heal, failing services and with no sense of itself.

I think he put a smile back on the face of the nation, inproved the economy and invested as wisely and as massively as possible in the key services of HEALTH and EDUCATION.

He's massively reduced unemployment, introduce a minimum wage, given meaningful rises to pensioners, kept interest rates AND inflation low. The Tories were always a one weapon Economic power, INFLATION high - better put up Interest rates.

Tony Blair has built a sustainable economy, built on pragmatic and imaginative government and has done nothing but (In my opinion) the best for this country in his time at the helm.

And for context, I voted didn't vote for him for leader of the labour party following John Smiths demise- I was a party member at the time.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I was thinking that until recently, and I have to admit there is far less difference between the two these days.

In fact the ones who make the most sense are the Lib Dems, but if you vote for them you're wasting a vote, and you could unwittingly be helping the tories.

I intrinsically trust the tories far less, they are the old monied guard, and they exist only to line the pockets of themselves and their mates around the world. It's the legacy of the last old boys network.

The only reason the Lib Dems talk about the policies they do is they know they won't get in.

It's a shame that politics in this country has been reduced to 'well, whose going to save me the most tax.' That's short term thinking and you cannot run an entire nation like that.

[jamesmcdonnell]

To be honest I think Tony Blair is a thoroughly decent bloke, Idont find him smug - which considering the size of his majority is no mean feat.

I think he went into Iraq for the right reasons at the time, whatever the conspiracy theorist say to the contrary and I think, whilst those reasons may have proved flawed, the end result was a positive for the people fo Iraq, the Middle-East and the wider world.

Tony Blair inherited a country in a shambles, down at heal, failing services and with no sense of itself.

I think he put a smile back on the face of the nation, inproved the economy and invested as wisely and as massively as possible in the key services of HEALTH and EDUCATION.

He's massively reduced unemployment, introduce a minimum wage, given meaningful rises to pensioners, kept interest rates AND inflation low. The Tories were always a one weapon Economic power, INFLATION high - better put up Interest rates.

Tony Blair has built a sustainable economy, built on pragmatic and imaginative government and has done nothing but (In my opinion) the best for this country in his time at the helm.

And for context, I voted didn't vote for him for leader of the labour party following John Smiths demise- I was a party member at the time.

Have to disagree on the Iraq war mate. Blair knew damned well that the information they released to the public was fake, there's too much evidence to suggest otherwise. He joined George bush in a highly dubious moral and religous crusade, which risks destabilising the entire region.

Iraq is in a very dangerous situation now, with the risk of a state run by hardline Muslim Clerics. Already women are being spat at in the street and stoned for not wearing the veil, something they didn't have to tolerate previously. The amount of ill feeling the whole invasion has caused throughout the Islamic world, is not worth the 'liberation' of Iraq.

Now America has it's companies in place, and can suck up the oil money for itself. Incidentally, the British and American governments did a deal to split this, but America shafted us! George Bush and his oil buddies will make a killing.

I know people who have family in Iraq, and they told me that Saddam was nowhere near as unpopular as western democracies would have you believe. Certainly he wasn't a pleasant character, but a lot of people preferred to live in a secular society than a clerical one like Iran.

The only thing is, the tories would have done exactly the same, only quicker. Britain is terrified not to support America, whilst still keeping a toe in Europe.

[Loftgroov]

I'm certainly not going to blame some poor pudendum who has spent the equivalent of 2 years wages so he can get smuggled from Afghanistan by lorry, dinghy and freight train, and find himself poor, cold and very much alone in our country. Anyone who is prepared to endure something like that, has every right to try and make a living for themselves in this country, and provided they aren't taking the piss (which I am sure the majority are not), fair play and good luck

This is cobblers.

You always refer to immigrants in the singularity e.g. "some poor c*nt". No of course one guy makes sod all difference, but when it's thousands (which it is) it DOES become a problem because it puts added pressure on existing resources and established communities.

Remember, these people (who you oddly wish the best of luck) don't give a shite about this country, its people, or how long is has taken to build it into what it is. They are just economic migrants looking to cream off a fatter land. Think of all the history and blood, sweat, tears, and wars that went into making Britain (not that you were a party to any of it of course – so easy to forget and dismiss). What gives some bastard from Bosnia the right to just come on in and join the party? f*ck them! It wasn’t them that helped build the country or its infrastructure so why the free ticket to come and help themselves to what it offers? Did we fight WW2 for that??? F*ck me…if only those guys who died knew what this country was becoming. They’d have defected in a second.

Imagine coming home from work to find me sat in your lounge simply saying “so you built this place and pay the mortgage and bills eh? Well I want some of this life too..and for free…so f*ck you!..I’m staying” Same “principle”.

Any ethnic minorities born here who work hard and contribute, fair play to them and I’m glad they are here. Any illegal ones (black, white..asian..or green..I don’t care) need to f*ck off.

[Loftgroov]

DavidPayne - Blair hasn't reduced unemployment. He has fiddled the figures, wake up!

Haven't you noticed how anyone unemployed is now suddenly "in further education" ..or "in jobseekers training" etc etc. Thereby striking them of the list of REGISTERED UNEMPLOYED. It is the REGISTERED UNEMPLOYED figure that has gone down, not the actual 'on the street number of unemployed people". It's just how you choose to creatively count.