jamesmcdonnell wrote:HeavyHitters wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:At the end of the day, fighters are rated more highly for consistency, that is why Lewis will generally be remembered as a better heavyweight champion. He maintained a high level of performance over a much longer period of time
I don't really give a shit WHY tyson deteriorated, that is open to debate, what is not open to discussion, is that after he beat Razor ruddock, he would never again beat anyone who was world class, the best name on his ledger post Ruddock that he beat was Golota.
there are so many fighters Tyson never fought, Mercer, Tua, Bowe, Lewis (in his prime he avoided Lewis), Briggs, Grant, need I go on.
All the supposed top challengers never got a shot against Mike who instead feasted on what he thought was a shot holyfield and instead got gobbled up himself.
These are my criteria for a great fighter.
Longevity at the top, including title defences.
quality of opposition.
Manner of victory.
Historical importance.
Skills
Mike does well in only two of those, relatively well in title defences, more than frazier or foreman for example, but on the others, sadly, pretty poor. A very famous and important figure in boxing who dominated his opposition in his early reign, but overall, seriously flawed.
The flaws which were exposed later in his career were always there, he just never fought anyone good enough to exploit them.
Lewis sucked, and he was a p*ssy. Consistency?? Is that why he got KO'ed 2 different times on one punch? Did I mention ONE PUNCH!!???
ONE PUNCH, BABY!!! POW!!
Two words for you, Bub..... Rahman and McCall!!
I rest my case!!
Yeah, what a case, a mental case. That's right, Lewis was a pussy, that's why he whipped the shit out of Tyson until he cried like a pussy in his corner going 'i can't do it, heth too big, too thtrong.' Actual words he said moron.
That's why Tyson paid him to step aside rather than defend his belt against Lewis.
Sure, the knock on Lewis is those two fights, but he went on to reverse the defeats, proving he was the better man. Compare their levels of competition mate, and it's clear who the better champion was. Tyson lost to fornicating Danny Williams for fucks sake! no disrespect to Danny, he's a nice guy, but he's not even the best heavyweight in europe. Yeah sure, Tyson is past it, but he was past it 15 bloody years ago.
say whatever you want, but lewis' record pisses all over tyson's he racked up more defences, faced fighters Tyson avoided like the plague, and beat men who humiliated Tyson.
Had Tyson been able to come back and beat world class fighters after the defeat to Douglas, then perhaps he would be ranked higher, but once he got hold of the title again all he wanted to do was face bums and what he thought were shot fighters. Sadly for him, one of those shot fighters, holyfield, turned around and bit him on the arse.
Lewis is an all time great, Tyson just cracks the top 10. Simple as.
Hmmmm.... you say Lewis is an all-time great? LOL, Well, if Tyson just cracks the top-ten, then just exactly what is he??
Yes, Tyson paid Lewis step-aside cash in 96, so he could retain the WBC and fight Seldon(who had the WBA), and then match his old-time rival Holyfield. A match which had previously been inked twice prior to Tyson going to prison. Now, the 4 Million given to Lewis's camp was actually to secure a match with Lewis after Holyfield. The 4 million was to be deducted from whatever purse Lewis would be given to fight Tyson. However, your hero Lewis pulled a fast one and tried to sue the WBC, Don King, and Tyson, which resulted in freezing all three from promoting or sanctioning a fight that did not include Lennox Lewis. Lewis gained this leverage because the WBC promised Lewis he would be given a title shot after they put him in a farse of a title eliminator with the "mighty" Lionel Butler, LOL. Remember Lewis was previously beaten by Mcall, and Bruno beat Mcall. Lewis felt he should be fighting Bruno, but Tyson was ranked higher and Bruno chose to defend against the #1 ranked Tyson. Negotiations for Lewis/Tyson were underway while Tyson fought Seldon. Since Tyson was already contracted to fight Seldon before Lewis won the court ruling, which in return froze the WBC, King, and Tyson, the title ended being lost in court instead of in the ring. Lewis wasnt much back in 96, had no belt, and was on the comeback after being poleaxed by one punch. Seldon at least had a belt, and was already signed to a contract, which is why Tyson decided to go ahead and fight him. As I said before, Lewis wasnt much back in 96. For example, Lewis vs Bruno. Lewis got his ass handed to him the whole fight, until he got hurt and threw a desperation punch with his eyes closed. Tyson KO'd the big man in 3, and the fight was never even close!
While Lewis waited he fought Mercer. Lewis looked real spectacular against Mercer didnt he? Lewis didnt really win that fight, not in my eyes, nor in most others. By the end of the fight, Lewis's face was a mess, with both eyes swelled shut. Completely outjabbed the whole fight, by punchstats. Certainly, Tyson's camp loved what they saw, since Mercer fought a simliar style to Tyson's in that fight. Lets see, Lewis being KTFO on one punch, plus his great showing against the very mediocre Mercer, certainly got Tyson running didnt it? Yeah, I'm sure Tyson was running scared of Lewis in 96.
Furthermore, Lewis didnt really become champ untill he beat Holyfield in 99, a 3 year run. Lewis then went on to surrender every belt he had until he retired -not exactly the type of run which greats are known for. Keep in mind, Lewis was handed a belt by Bowe so it wasnt really a "legit" title. By that I mean, Lewis didnt win the belt in the ring. Lewis then went on to lose that bogus belt to a weak sparring partner of Tysons from the 80's(Mcall). Its okay though because Lewis is 1-1 with a known crackhead. At least Buster Douglas beat a prime Oliver Mcall, and was beating a prime Tucker until he had a respiratory attack. At least Douglas had the potential to be great, just not the consistency. Mcall and Rahman never had anything. Hell, even Ruiz put a shallacking on Rahman, which is really saying something there. Oh yeah and that "apparent" linear title Lewis won off Briggs? FORGETABOUTIT!!
You go on to say Lewis fought so much better competition. I wouldnt really say that since Lewis fought a lot of the same fighters Tyson fought, -just years later. Like Tucker, Biggs, and Holyfield, to just name a few. Tucker was like 16 lbs heavier? Biggs was no longer a contender by then, but at least he did manage to defeat Lewis in the Olympics. Holyfield was so past it, that even Lewis said he should retire after their second match. That second match that could have gone either way?? Lewis did beat the mighty Galota, Grant, and Botha however. Yes, Lewis beat Ruddock, but this is a Ruddock coming off a 19 round battery at the hands of a very pissed off Tyson. Razor's never really been the same since. Tua can't box and he's like 2 feet shorter than Lewis. Wheres the competition in that? Is that the awesome competition your referring to?
The fact of the matter is that when Lewis got in with a bigger, stronger man, he got his ass torn up. Mcall, Briggs, Bruno, Mercer, Rahman, and Klitscho all did a job on him. As long as the fighter matched up physically, the fight was always back and forth, where either fighter could have lost. Lewis either lost, or got lucky in those.
Assuming the skill level is comparable, I measure a fighter by how well they dominated in an even match up, and Lewis was lacklustre in most of the above. Of course he looked splendid against the likes of Botha, Tua, and a 2002 Tyson. However, let me get this right, didnt Tyson dominate the "E I G H T I E S"?? If my memory serves me correctly, Tyson held the WBC, WBA, IBF, and the Linear Title before Lewis ever turned pro. And you honestly believe Lewis is durable and has lots of longevity??
Lewis hardly dominated, unless you hold a lot of stock in Grant, Galota, and a past it Ruddock. If you think Tyson and Holyfield are ancient, imagine Ruddock who turned pro way back in 82. On the other hand, Tyson has ALWAYS been at a huge disadvantage in every fight. Tyson, who has never had a height or reach advantage against an opponent, always dominated by viscous KO. That is what I'm talking about. That, and the fact he puts asses in seats. Could you imagine if Lewis would have came out and tried to KO Holyfield or Tua in the first round? It would've been exciting, thats for sure. Thats what Tyson holds over most HW's throughout history. He's exciting and understands showmanship, which is just one of the reasons he will always be greater than someone like Lennox.
. Well see... I myselfe dont have much trust in him being a contender but like he said "I'm looking to complete my career" and that sounds promising. Lets give him some space and see.