BoxRec

Decagon wrote:You can't measure a fighter's size simply by height and weight. Sonny Liston was simply bigger than Joe Louis. His reach was 8" longer and his fists were 15", compared with Louis's 11.75". As an amateur, Liston was a heavyweight, and Louis was a light heavyweight. Here's a tale of the tape (source):

Measurement-----Joe Louis---Sonny Liston---
---------------------------------------------------
Height----------------6'1.5"------------6'1"-----
Weight--------------197lbs.----------214lbs.---
Reach-----------------76"--------------84"-----
Chest/Norm.---------42"--------------44"-----
Chest/Exp.-----------45"--------------46.5"---
Waist-----------------36.5"------------33"-----
Biceps----------------15"--------------16.5"---
Neck------------------17"--------------17.5"---
Wrist-------------------8"--------------8.5"-----
Calf-------------------14"--------------16"-----
Ankle-----------------10"--------------12"-----
Thigh-----------------22.5"------------25.5"---
Fist------------------11.75"------------15"-----
Forearm--------------12"--------------14.5"---

The red measurements are the ones where Liston is bigger, and the blue ones are where Louis is bigger.

yes but ur comparing joe louis in 1938



not louis in 1942 when he was 207lb and knocked out buddy baer in 1 round.

dr_devious wrote:I think a peak Sonny Liston would knock a peak Joe Louis into oblivion.

totally disagree

ok then that means jack dempsey 185lb was bigger than joe frazier. look at the tale of the tape.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

dr_devious wrote:I think a peak Sonny Liston would knock a peak Joe Louis into oblivion.

totally disagree

I just think that Joe Louis got stopped by Max Schmelling and knocked down by others, and Sonny Liston was as destructive a heavyweight as ever lived, with underrated skills when at his best. In a head to head id pick Sonny Liston over Joe Louis, although his legacy doesnt match up to that of Joe Louis

Otyson wrote:MIKE TYSON IS THE TRUE LEGEND !!!!!

Naaaaaaah.

Good like but was too reckless and not displined.

theone wrote:

Hahahahaha. Is that the same Lummox Lewis who was KO'd twice by a couple of mediocrities?

Yup. Two powerful mediocrities over six feet tall, well over 200lbs and reaches longer than a featherweights.

True they were just good lucky fluke shots and the Mc Call one shouldn't of been stopped.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Carmine Vingo. A record of 16-1-0. Hadn't fought anyone of note, infact had rematches with several of his fighters. Also his record shows a poor KO record which dispells the rumours of his devasting punching power.

u cant just go by boxrec,

vingos record is incomplete. vingo is actually really 27-3. and vingo could hit. anyone who seen him live says he was a hard hitter. his KO percentage is misleading stat, but dont forget his record is incomplete. hes really 27-3. and if u dont think he hits hard, ask marciano. u cant just go by the record and say certain fighters werent good. i have articles on Vingo, and he was considered a huge prospect coming out of new york. he 6'4 195lb hard hitter and only 20 years old, who knows how good he may have been if marciano didnt end his career.

Johnny Shkor. A record of 29-18-2. Lost previous fight.

.

shkor may be 29-18, but he did stop # 1 heavyweight contender tami mauriello in a big upset, so he clearly wasnt a bum.

Shkor was not a good fighter and Mauriello wasn't either. And Mauriello was stopped due to cuts and was so angry at the stoppage he punched an official and was banned from boxing for a while.

And Vingo still never beat anyone of note, regardless whether his record was incomplete or not.

Shkor was not a good fighter and Mauriello wasn't either. And Mauriello was stopped due to cuts and was so angry at the stoppage he punched an official and was banned from boxing for a while.

And Vingo still never beat anyone of note, regardless whether his record was incomplete or not.

thats all u are is a boxrec hunter repeating stuff u saw under boxrec. why dont u look for outside sources and newspapers. check some other articles. to say mauriello was not a good fighter shows u know very little of that era. vingo never beat anyone? well his record is missing 14 fights, so how do u know for sure? vingo gave a green marciano a firpo-dempsey type fight for 6 rounds, i would say he was better fighter than u think.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Shkor was not a good fighter and Mauriello wasn't either. And Mauriello was stopped due to cuts and was so angry at the stoppage he punched an official and was banned from boxing for a while.

And Vingo still never beat anyone of note, regardless whether his record was incomplete or not.

thats all u are is a boxrec hunter repeating stuff u saw under boxrec. why dont u look for outside sources and newspapers. check some other articles. to say mauriello was not a good fighter shows u know very little of that era. vingo never beat anyone? well his record is missing 14 fights, so how do u know for sure? vingo gave a green marciano a firpo-dempsey type fight for 6 rounds, i would say he was better fighter than u think.

No, you said Shkor beat Mauriello as if that was a great result. My point is he was stopped on cuts. Whether I read that on Boxrec or in a book is irrelevent, he was still stopped on cuts. And that doesn't get around the fact the Mauriello wasn't a great fighter anyway. He started his career as a welterweight so he was hardly naturally big. And you forget to say that Shkor was KO'ed in one round by Walcott before fighting Marciano so I'm surprised it took Marciano so long.

Also if Vingo beat anyone of note that would surely be on his record. So my guess is if he was 27-3 as you say, he still didn't beat anyone good.

Plus I don't need you telling me how to research boxing, I have been doing it for over 20 years.

Some of the physical stats for fighters on the web appear to be inaccurate. Louis's true stats are as follows.

Joe Louis
ht 6' 1 3/4
reach 76
chest/norm 41
chest/exp 44
waist 34
biceps 14
neck 16 1/2
wrist 8
calf 15
ankle 10
thigh 22
fist 11 3/4
forearm 12

Controversial wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Shkor was not a good fighter and Mauriello wasn't either. And Mauriello was stopped due to cuts and was so angry at the stoppage he punched an official and was banned from boxing for a while.

And Vingo still never beat anyone of note, regardless whether his record was incomplete or not.

thats all u are is a boxrec hunter repeating stuff u saw under boxrec. why dont u look for outside sources and newspapers. check some other articles. to say mauriello was not a good fighter shows u know very little of that era. vingo never beat anyone? well his record is missing 14 fights, so how do u know for sure? vingo gave a green marciano a firpo-dempsey type fight for 6 rounds, i would say he was better fighter than u think.

No, you said Shkor beat Mauriello as if that was a great result. My point is he was stopped on cuts. Whether I read that on Boxrec or in a book is irrelevent, he was still stopped on cuts. And that doesn't get around the fact the Mauriello wasn't a great fighter anyway. He started his career as a welterweight so he was hardly naturally big. And you forget to say that Shkor was KO'ed in one round by Walcott before fighting Marciano so I'm surprised it took Marciano so long.

Also if Vingo beat anyone of note that would surely be on his record. So my guess is if he was 27-3 as you say, he still didn't beat anyone good.

Plus I don't need you telling me how to research boxing, I have been doing it for over 20 years.

fair enough,


my point is mauriello was a good fighter and a top contender and for skhor to beat him proves he wasnt a bum. because bums dont beat top contenders. so what if walcott kayoed him in 1 round and marciano kayoed him in 6. archie moore knocked out bert whitehurst in 6 rounds, so liston shoud knock out whitehurst sooner right?

even if vingo didnt beat anyone, its a good win for marciano. marciano was very green when he fought vingo. vingo was a 6'4 hard punching huge prospect out of New york and at 27-3 he was clearly a upcoming solid fighter. the papers spoke well of vingo.

Decagon wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:my point is mauriello was a good fighter and a top contender and for skhor to beat him proves he wasnt a bum. because bums dont beat top contenders.

Yes they do.

• Johnny Cunningham W10 Jimmy Carter
• Leon Spinks W15 Muhammad Ali
• Carlos Maussa KO7 Vivian Harris
• Billy Fox TKO4 Jake LaMotta
• Drake Thadzi W12 James Toney

ali was shot, and spinx wasnt a bum. he was a top 10 contender

maussa was a top 10 contender, thats not a bum.

[*]Billy Fox TKO4 Jake LaMotta

come on man, u defintley need to do more research man, cause i mean evryone that follows boxing knows lamotta took a dive in this fight




fact is a bum is a club fighter who loses alot and never amounts to more than that. thats not what skhor was, shkor was a respectable journeyman.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Decagon wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:my point is mauriello was a good fighter and a top contender and for skhor to beat him proves he wasnt a bum. because bums dont beat top contenders.

Yes they do.

• Johnny Cunningham W10 Jimmy Carter
• Leon Spinks W15 Muhammad Ali
• Carlos Maussa KO7 Vivian Harris
• Billy Fox TKO4 Jake LaMotta
• Drake Thadzi W12 James Toney

ali was shot, and spinx wasnt a bum. he was a top 10 contender

maussa was a top 10 contender, thats not a bum.

[*]Billy Fox TKO4 Jake LaMotta

come on man, u defintley need to do more research man, cause i mean evryone that follows boxing knows lamotta took a dive in this fight




fact is a bum is a club fighter who loses alot and never amounts to more than that. thats not what skhor was, shkor was a respectable journeyman.

The post that started this off was that Marciano never fought anyone of Lewis's size, speed and power.

You named a few 'big' fighters Marciano fought and are using them of examples that because Marciano beat them he would hold his own against Lewis. Thats totally ridiculous as previously shown the big fighters you name were no-where near being world class fighters like Lewis was.

My point remains that Lewis would be too big, strong and quick for Marciano and would have destroyed him. Shkor cannot be compared to Lewis no matter how hard you try.

marciano would be 205-210lb if he fought today. thats what goody pentronelli and peter marciano told me personally. they said they know his handlers would have him come 20-30lbs heavier. a bigger stronger marciano with the same stamiana. scary isnt it? lewis would be decked out.


notice how when marciano faced bigger men like skhor or a big bill wilson, he weighed in over 190lb???

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:marciano would be 205-210lb if he fought today. thats what goody pentronelli and peter marciano told me personally. they said they know his handlers would have him come 20-30lbs heavier. a bigger stronger marciano with the same stamiana. scary isnt it? lewis would be decked out.

Of course, at 20-30 lbs heavier he may not have had the same stamina. It takes quite a bit of energy to carry 20-30 lbs around. Why do you think all of these larger HWs today get gassed after a few rounds?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:marciano would be 205-210lb if he fought today. thats what goody pentronelli and peter marciano told me personally. they said they know his handlers would have him come 20-30lbs heavier. a bigger stronger marciano with the same stamiana. scary isnt it? lewis would be decked out.


notice how when marciano faced bigger men like skhor or a big bill wilson, he weighed in over 190lb???

Its very easy too say he would be 30lbs heavier and still the same fighter but it isn't as easy as that. Marciano was very small for a heavyweight, short in height, short reach and small fists. For him to bulk up 2.5 stone would have had some sort of effect on his stamina and make him slower. Even if he could add two stone he would still be small at 15 stone and Lewis would still be too naturally big, fast and powerful for him.

I think your hero-worshipping of Marciano clouds your judgment somewhat.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
vingos record is incomplete. vingo is actually really 27-3.

Vingo's record is complete

Decagon wrote:

wouter wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
vingos record is incomplete. vingo is actually really 27-3.

Vingo's record is complete

I think he got that stat from this website:

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Aren ... cky13.html

I emailed the owner of the site and asked him for a source.

no i didnt


i got it from edward skehans rocky marciano biopgrahpy



- vingo reportedley came into the match with a 27-3 record

Lewis a good fighter? Yes

A great? Not a chance in hell

Great fighters dont get knocked out by 2 average HW's in McCall and Rahman, fighters like Holmes who, can not only get up from Shavers best punch - A man named to be the hardest punch in ring history but knock him out late in the fight - Thats what you call a great fighter.

I dont care if Lewis even did win the rematches as great fighters dont get knocked out by 1 punch from medicore fighters!

The only win which is good on Lewis's record is Ruddock - but thats only if Lewis can fight in his hometown so Ruddock (depsite being the no.1 contender) had to go to his backyard and paid for it.
Lewis struggled to beat an old Holyfield the second time round and I dont even count his 'clinch per second' performance against a shot disinterested Tyson just like you dont count Holmes's win over Ali.

The Ruddock of the Dokes fight or even the Tyson fights would of been wiping Lewis's brain off his gloves.

RazorKO wrote:The only win which is good on Lewis's record is Ruddock - but thats only if Lewis can fight in his hometown so Ruddock (depsite being the no.1 contender) had to go to his backyard and paid for it.

Well, at least you didn't say that Lewis landed a lucky punch after getting thoroughly outclassed by Ruddock.

Are you sure there weren't ANY other good wins on Lewis' record?? Not even one other good win??

The Great John L wrote:

RazorKO wrote:The only win which is good on Lewis's record is Ruddock - but thats only if Lewis can fight in his hometown so Ruddock (depsite being the no.1 contender) had to go to his backyard and paid for it.

Well, at least you didn't say that Lewis landed a lucky punch after getting thoroughly outclassed by Ruddock.

Are you sure there weren't ANY other good wins on Lewis' record?? Not even one other good win??

On paper the good wins are Holyfield, Tyson, Ruddock, Golota, Tua

But when Lewis beat them, Holyfield was battleworn (and still nearly beat him), Tyson who was past his prime so much its not even funny, Golota - A good skilled fighter but mentally he is very weak and quit in his most defining fights, Tua - What a boring ass fight this was! But besides that Lewis kept his bay at all costs against Tua who a year later was beaten comfortably by Byrd.

P.S I dont count Klistchko as a win simply because Lewis butted him causing that terrible cut.

As for Ruddock - Ruddock was fighting in the lions den and when you fight in the lions den you fight by the lions rules. Then the arrogant Lewis has the nerve to accuse Ruddock of taking steriods! When Ruddock had agreed despite being the no. 1 contender to fight him in his own backyward infront of a partisan crowd. The sheer arrogance of Lewis when he was laughing infront of Rahman in the first fight....than BANG Lewis isnt laughing anymore Rahman surely wiped that stupid ass grin of his face.

razorKO im tired of ur ruddock and coetzee bullshit. nieither of them were top 50 heavyweights of all time, deal with it.

Decagon wrote:Lewis headbutted Klitschko? Sorry, but the footage clearly showed that the cut in question was opened after a punch. Whether the cut was opened by the punch itself, or the duct tape rasping against Klitschko's face is up to speculation.

You can't argue these points with true klit fans. It doesn't matter what the footage shows, it HAD to be a headbutt, because klit completely dominated Lewis, who only landed a few glancing blows before the referee saved him by stopping the fight and unjustly awarding it to Lewis. It's the only possible explanation for klit losing to the clumsy, talentless Lewis.

I hope I've helped to clear up this misunderstanding.

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:Lewis headbutted Klitschko? Sorry, but the footage clearly showed that the cut in question was opened after a punch. Whether the cut was opened by the punch itself, or the duct tape rasping against Klitschko's face is up to speculation.

You can't argue these points with true klit fans. It doesn't matter what the footage shows, it HAD to be a headbutt, because klit completely dominated Lewis, who only landed a few glancing blows before the referee saved him by stopping the fight and unjustly awarding it to Lewis. It's the only possible explanation for klit losing to the clumsy, talentless Lewis.

I hope I've helped to clear up this misunderstanding.

Im not a Klitschko fan, but I saw the footage of Lewis going in with his head hitting Vitali on the cheek. Lewis promised a rematch but never kept it, but saying that Vitali never fought Rahman despite it being postoned 4 times for they are both as bad as each other.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:razorKO im tired of ur ruddock and coetzee bullshit. nieither of them were top 50 heavyweights of all time, deal with it.

If you dont like my opinion then dont read it you clown.
Then again I never said Ruddock was a top 10/20/30 heavyweight.