BoxRec

Posted: **05 Jun 2006, 19:28**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think the idea is, that if one fighter has it, and the other doesn't, then it gives them an unfair advantage. I can see no reason why in boxing though the corners shouldn't be able to give their fighters isotonic drinks.

I guess part of the reason though, is that it becomes a lot harder to monitor if you start allowing anything other than water. If you ban everything EXCEPT water, it's pretty easy to detect that something isn't just water. However, if you allow isotonic drinks, you then need proper testing equipment to watch what else went in there, as drug testing is far from mandatory in boxing.

Very true, of course I meant for both corners to use it (if they so wish).

Your stumbling block is valid, but then why doesn't the sanctioning board (as opposed to the corner) supply the drinks on the night of the fight and scruntinise (making sure it is not tampered with) before the fight. Surely, this should be the case (although I know it is isn't) with Water.

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 06:33**

Castillo IS NOT cheating? Cheats don't get caught untill after the event and try to get away with something without their rivals knowing.

Corrales knew exactly what weight Castillo was before the rematch, but elected to fight him. We have many catchweight contest in the years - but don't see that as cheating.

In my amateur debut, I faced a "featherweight" who I didn't see untill I stepped into the ring... but had assurances from his trainer - yeah, he's around your size (and my coach bought it). I was pretty shocked, cause I was huge for my weight (5 foot 8).

He had to be over the 6 foot and had a huge set of shoulders.... Taking my pictures with him, he must have been a Super Middleweight. What annoyed me most, was that I was training with a bin liner bag on trying to make 9 stone for 2 weeks in the build up of my debut.

Now that is cheating with your weight. If he would have weighed in, and I accepted the fight - then he is not cheating.

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 07:13**

Terence wrote:Stu, I still think you miss the point. If you signed to fight a featherweight you'd expect him to be a certain weight. He could very easily be freakishly tall and broad but as long as he weighs in on the limit it is allowed. Castillo twice deceived everyone around the promotions until he set foot on the scales and came in heavier forcing the fight to be a catchweight, catchweights happen but when they are forced in the day of the weigh-in you have to assume the fighter has been indisciplined or lazy or possibly a cheat. You'd be inclined to extend the benefit of the doubt in a one-off case. Castillo has pulled this stunt twice, do you intend to argue, as his defenders must but so far have not even tried to do, that he stepped on the scales intending NOT to fight? In that case why step on the scales when he'd have known he was heavy? Answer he assumed Corrales would take the fight. He cheated. A cheat caught is still a cheat. He signed for a weight, not a height or a build and failed that weight twice. Stu, you say you surmised that your guy was bigger in the ring, he may have weighed the same and been a freakishly big featerweight. It is not the size, it is the weight, that is why we have weight divisions and not height divisions.

It is not the same as your analogy. You was duped, Castillo cheated. Cheats who get caught are still cheats and if they claim error was at play then get caught for the same thing again they are cheats.

Any-hoo' I'm done with this topic as I've gotten what I need out of it to write my thing up. I only finished a piece about cry-babies in boxing last week, I should have held fire for Castillo's stunt.

Worth bearing in mind Terrence, that Castillo would have been fined VERY heavily for coming in over the weight. Wasn't it 250k per lb over the weight? That would have eaten up most of his purse, as I am sure Corralles was on more money.

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 09:02**

Well either my opponent was a Thomas Hearns with big shoulders and legs or he wasn't a featherweight.

Neither of us weighed... all I got told by his coach "he's in a traffic jam and running late, but will be here".... I asked about his weight thinking that his coach would question my weight, as I was huge for the weight. As I said, his response way - "Yeah, he's about the same size as you"- he didn't even ask for my weight.

He could have weighed anything, no stipulations - no weighing by both parties - but I worked dieted and trained down to make featherweight.

It got the pic of us eyeballing, it was like Drago and Rocky.

It was Corrales who accepted the first fight, he didn't have to the option was given to him.... Although, yes the financial incentive did help his decision.

Without knowing the ins and out, its hard to know how much Castillo "cheated"... Perhaps he made all the weight checks in the lead up, but might have been killing himself to do that - perhaps he simply couldn't lose the last remaining 5 pounds in this last week.

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 10:06**

Terence wrote:In that case, if it was a financial question, he'd have pulled out during fight week to avoid the heavy fine. He weighed in because he thought Corrales would take the fight and Castillo, since fight one, has become a very sad and bitter man who has constantly accused Corrales of being unsporting whilst himself breaking the rules. He has made himself look foolish in this trilogy and Corrales will take the trilogy by default long-term.

Castillo may get a ban of some kind either enforced or via him being made an outcast, then it will be pretty funny hearing the: "He didn't do anything wrong!" arguments.

Why would it be funny if he gets a ban or is made an outcast??.... so you really want to see the guy runined do you?... ok he probably deserves a fine and a short ban and he's already probably missed out on any big fights that could have come up, but the gleefulness of some people like yourself who seem to want the guy to be shot is all rather distasteful and hypocritcal...

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 10:28**

Terence wrote:Silkov read first, then type.

Castillo may get a ban of some kind either enforced or via him being made an outcast, then it will be pretty funny hearing the: "He didn't do anything wrong!" arguments.
I'll be laughing at you, not him. Personally I'd go for a fine as it is not nice to take a fighters prime from them, I'm leaning to a fine now. Let history judge him in regards to these fights.

Incidently you say he should get a fine, why if he did nothing wrong and was a victim of circumstance, are you advocating we fine him when you say he was truly unable to get to the weight? Why fine an innocent man?

Why laugh at me?... they can fine him till the cows come home that won't change my view on the matter... a lot of people seem willing to have a public execution, but that doesnt mean that they are right. Why don't they fine the WBC who were supposed to be monitoring his weight??... plenty of innocent men have been fined, imprisoned and shot... you need to read up on your history a bit son...

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 10:44**

Terence wrote: Let history judge him in regards to these fights.

All history will probably note, or the record books defintely, is that they went 1-1 and engaged in one of the greatest fights ever seen.

How many people remember, for instance, that James Toney actualy failed to make weight for one of his title defences, but was allowed to go ahead and defend his title regardless?

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 11:27**

Steroids is a totally different kettle of fish to what Castillo has done, ....steroids is the worst form of cheating yet often seems to be simply ignored... ala Roy Jones....

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 12:18**

Although I fear it he will get one, I don't think a suspension is in order. As the fight didn't take place, he whether you think he intentionally did or not - he technically didn't cheat. They didn't fight.

He does deserve a fine, because it was his fault (technically) the fight didn't go ahead. Whether he was pressurised into signing to fight at 135, miscalculated or blatantly went to cheat - the fact is Corrales didn't fight, the casino and PPV lost out - aswell as the reputation of Shaw and Arum. He deserves a hefty fine, but no suspension - and no suspension from the WBC either.

Not sure what the big fuss is about, Castillo will make Light Welter - so why cannot the Cotto fight go ahead? I'm sure it will.

Posted: **06 Jun 2006, 15:47**

Again, congrats Terence on proving you are a first class twat

I have never said Castillo shouldn't be fined, we obviously on the wrong tracks.. All I have said in this thread is close to facts, what you have said is aload of bollox, long winded posts with little point to each. Hmm please explain how one can be cheating without ever actually fighting.

Fact is Corrales cheated in 1st fight, I still love him though and will continue to watch his fights, and Castillo camp tried to cheat at weigh-in of 2nd fight with foot under scales. Castillo not making weight in 3rd fight is not cheating, but incompetent. If you can't see that then your as delusional as your posts make you appear. Tell you what, why don't we take a poll...Did Castillo cheat in 3rd fight. Seriously, make it and we shall see who's speaking so much "nonsense"

I'm done with you. Have a good day.

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 05:38**

It appears your still ignoring OTHER people's views, Vicious, Silkov and I are not the only ones who disagree with you, infact you are the only one with such a negative opinion on Castillo. Would you like me to write with a crayon?

I see by your name that you have posted a fair bit, how can anyone post so many times and seemingly know fook all about the sport? That is a vast achievement. Well done

Quite rich coming from someone who thought Lacy would KO Calzaghe in 5.

Not to mention Toney over Wlad? and Corrales over Castillo in 3rd fight? Audley to KO Guinn in 6? Byrd TKO Wlad?

NEED I GO ON? This is funny shit!

You are obviously the one who has no clue on boxing kid. Are you stoned again? Stick to poetry you tool!

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 06:23**

Ok mate I'm getting tired of this banter, lets just agree to disagree we've both said our parts. I just think you should layoff posting like your on some sort of pulpit, it makes you look like a twat.
http://www.stargazette.com/blogs/genx/s ... 766877.jpg

Peace

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 07:04**

Terence wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:Again, congrats Terence on proving you are a first class twat

I have never said Castillo shouldn't be fined, we obviously on the wrong tracks.. All I have said in this thread is close to facts, what you have said is aload of bollox, long winded posts with little point to each. Hmm please explain how one can be cheating without ever actually fighting.

Fact is Corrales cheated in 1st fight, I still love him though and will continue to watch his fights, and Castillo camp tried to cheat at weigh-in of 2nd fight with foot under scales. Castillo not making weight in 3rd fight is not cheating, but incompetent. If you can't see that then your as delusional as your posts make you appear. Tell you what, why don't we take a poll...Did Castillo cheat in 3rd fight. Seriously, make it and we shall see who's speaking so much "nonsense"

I'm done with you. Have a good day.
'Varc, I made longish posts because you seem to be lacking in grey matter and it seemed best to take you through things step by step. Outside of this I have no opinion on you as you do on warrant one. We had a difference of opinion, it is not a personal slur but the fact is that you Silkov and Maussa all made your "points" poorly and failed to respond to mine. I see by your name that you have posted a fair bit, how can anyone post so many times and seemingly know fook all about the sport? That is a vast achievement. Well done

Castillo cheated, he knew he was overweight yet weighed-in in the hope Corrales would take the fight. If a person makes plans to kill/rob or embezzle from another person and they are caught they are still punished, I take it you disagree with preventative crime measures? In fact don't answer that as the word preventative has more than 12 characters in and it may mess your thinknig on this matter up a little. I posted responses to three people as you innane views all merged at some point or another, well done.

As for a poll, that proves nothing but desperation on your part, just address the points. A poll could tell me that Westlife are the greatest band of all time but that does not make it so. Next thing you'll be telling me that Jimmy the 13 year-old up the round agrees with you so I need to shut up before you get your mummy involved.

The only thing poor about our posts is that we don't agree with you!...
you can only see things from your own blinkered perspective and treat anyone who disagrees with your pontifications with insults about their 'grey matter' ...which all in all makes you a tiresome bore!... well done! 8)

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 07:07**

CHEAT. vb 1 to act dishonestly in order to gain some advantage or profit.

So by failing to meet the contracted weight for a fight, therefore causing said fight to be abandoned, giving nobody any advantage Castillo is a cheat, is that the consensus? BOLLOX I'd hate to be up on a serious charge and rely on some of the pseudo lawyers on here for a defence!!!!!

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 07:07**

Terence wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:It appears your still ignoring OTHER people's views, Vicious, Silkov and I are not the only ones who disagree with you, infact you are the only one with such a negative opinion on Castillo. Would you like me to write with a crayon?

I see by your name that you have posted a fair bit, how can anyone post so many times and seemingly know fook all about the sport? That is a vast achievement. Well done
Quite rich coming from someone who thought Lacy would KO Calzaghe in 5.

Not to mention Toney over Wlad? and Corrales over Castillo in 3rd fight? Audley to KO Guinn in 6? Byrd TKO Wlad? NEED I GO ON? This is funny shit!

You are obviously the one who has no clue on boxing kid. Are you stoned again? Stick to poetry you tool!
'Varc, it is not who you pick but how well you pick and assess a fight and I do it very well indeed. It is touching that you've made a note of my posting on different fights, you must have a lot of time. I can barely remember a single post you have made.

This strand is about the Castillo-Corrales fight, the one that did not take place. I made a number of points, you failed to address them. Call me a kid but in doing so why not try and act with the dignity befitting an older man? Or are you prematurely senile?

Ps Picks wise my form has dipped I will admit, it was hot a for a run and will be again. Then again was I the only person who predicted Lacy to beat Joe? I certainly predicted a piss-poor follow-up from Joe.

Yes that was rather a gem!... Lacy to win by ko in 5!!!!.... still not Lacys fault is it, Joe cheated by repeatedly hitting him in the face eh!!!....

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 07:14**

Terence wrote:
silkov wrote:
Terence wrote: 'Varc, I made longish posts because you seem to be lacking in grey matter and it seemed best to take you through things step by step. Outside of this I have no opinion on you as you do on warrant one. We had a difference of opinion, it is not a personal slur but the fact is that you Silkov and Maussa all made your "points" poorly and failed to respond to mine. I see by your name that you have posted a fair bit, how can anyone post so many times and seemingly know fook all about the sport? That is a vast achievement. Well done

Castillo cheated, he knew he was overweight yet weighed-in in the hope Corrales would take the fight. If a person makes plans to kill/rob or embezzle from another person and they are caught they are still punished, I take it you disagree with preventative crime measures? In fact don't answer that as the word preventative has more than 12 characters in and it may mess your thinknig on this matter up a little. I posted responses to three people as you innane views all merged at some point or another, well done.

As for a poll, that proves nothing but desperation on your part, just address the points. A poll could tell me that Westlife are the greatest band of all time but that does not make it so. Next thing you'll be telling me that Jimmy the 13 year-old up the round agrees with you so I need to shut up before you get your mummy involved.
The only thing poor about our posts is that we don't agree with you!...
you can only see things from your own blinkered perspective and treat anyone who disagrees with your pontifications with insults about their 'grey matter' ...which all in all makes you a tiresome bore!... well done! 8)
Grow up mate, insults flew at me and I just pointed out that you did this because you are not very bright. No offence but you made a fool out of yourself on the Scott Harrison strand and acted like a naive undergraduate trying to make sense of his latest text-book. You continued that form on this strand, which has ran its course.

Well you would say that wouldnt you, because my view differed from yours and you are so insecure in reality that you have to treat every opposing view as wrong and anyone who disagrees with you as stupid.... which is a rather sad way to live really, still if it makes you happy!

.... anymore bright boxing predictions to educate me with???...

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 07:48**

I can only assume that your predictions rant is aimed at silkov as i dont make predictions. I have no interest in your conjecture regarding what YOU think J.L.Castillo did or did not do in his training camp. If you really are niave enough to believe that a fighter is stupid enough to put himself through weeks of training only to intentionally miss his target weight then you are obviously some moronic middle class suit groupie that thinks all fighters only exist because of their managers and promotors. Its unfortunate for Corrales but everyone else can lump it because it is not their health that could suffer. If you lack the intelligence to see that then i suggest you look for a website on tiddlywinks or doodle and buck as boxing is far too complicated for you.

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 09:19**

Bit upset there were you Terence? Nice of you to offer a drink but i'm not into cloth caps and pigeons.

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 10:42**

Terence wrote:Wow Andy, you didn't like that dictionary pish being sent back to you with top-spin did you? I must be middle-class right wot wiv my way wit' words and all. I hang around a gym in Openshaw and attend shows, I'll buy you a drink at one if you are a fan of live boxing.

I made my case in regards to this fight so that is the end of that. Look up end in your dictionary by all means Andy.

Being a gym rat obviously hasn't helped with your understanding of boxing has it!... 8)

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 10:59**

Fact is NONE of us here know the truth, it's ALL conjecture. My feeling is that training camp was going badly for a while, and Arum, the WBC and Castillo's people hushed it up in the hope things would improve.

It also sounds like Castillo went out on the lash in the run in to the fight and probably piled on a few pounds at a crucial time.

I personally doubt it was a cynical ploy on Castillo's part, I think he just couldn't bring himself to go through the trauma of making weight again, it's obviously very difficult for him to do so, and not surprisingly, seeing as he's fought over welterweight before.

Bottom line is, we all have our opinions, and nobody here can hold there hand up and claim some sort of authoratative opinion, because everyone is guessing.

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 14:43**

I have no problem with that Jim Macdonnell. My problem with Terence is his inability to think. Think being the operative word as he and reasoning are on different planets. He must truly believe that J.L.Castillo is as stupid or as arrogant as he himself is. Trying to tell people that Castillo went to camp with the intention of weighing whatever he liked instead of the contracted weight, and not thinking of the possible consequences, like the fight being cacelled and being fined and maybe suspended, ( oops silly me those ARE the consequences ) is crass to an unparralleled degree.

He says he attends a gym and goes to live shows. I would be very interested to hear his version of what happens at the next show he attends, and compare it to the official reports in the trade papers. My guess is his fertile imagination would have nothing in common with the reality.

For instance at no time so far have I mentioned whippets but that doesn't stop Terence from pretending I did. You are quite right Jim we all have our opinions and we are all entitled to them. I like to try and make, and I also enjoy reading constructive criticism about fighters, but when people start abusing them with words like cheat and some have said far worse then i think any true boxing fan should tell these half=wits where to get off.

RANT OVER thankyou

Posted: **07 Jun 2006, 14:46**

P.S. Jim sorry for spelling your name wrong.

BoxRec

Castillo 139.5 !!