BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

pundit wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:There was no way Warren was going to give Beyer that nice fat retirement fund payout though, not without Calzaghe taking an almightily thin end of the wedge.

Rather unlcear to me what thin edge of the wedge you're talking about. Beyer would have been a record purse for Calzaghe, too.

Besides, Warren explicitely said that it was the date, not the money, that prevented this fight from happening. Strangely though, they could fight Bika on that date for peanuts, but they could not fight Beyer for a record purse.

P

Are you saying Beyer's people offered a record purse? Fail to see that would have been possible, where would the money have come from to pay both Beyer and Calzaghe record purses?

I googled a bit and can't find a reference, but I have an offer of Euro 1.5 million in the back of my mind. TV money in Germany is good. Secondsout even claims that they had already agreed on terms when Warren suddenly cancelled the date -- only to fill it later with Bika

http://www.secondsout.com/world/news.cf ... 5&cs=19702

Anyway these posts are futile everyone is still making the same old posts as the last 12 months and meantime Calzaghe and Warren are still taking the easy options.... I bet it continues after Manfredo.

Max Molyneux wrote:

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. What bluff is there to call if Warren hasn't made any terms public?
Warren could just say "OK I take the USD 3.4 billion, let's make the fight".
What could Palle say? OK, I take an offer that doesn't exist??

Palle should of just called his bluff if it wasn't there then.

HOW, Max???????
How can you cal an offer a "bluff" that doesn't exist?

I think one day also you will get this point: the unifications are "hard to make" because FWARREN DOESN'T WANT UNIFICATIONS. Also, Warren wants no Kessler, no IBF mandatories, no purse bids. The only unification he ever made was Lacy because everything there was on his terms, and Lacy was a taylor made opponent.

Max, you're maneuvering yourself into a sorry position here -- chief defender of FWarren's management of Joe's career. I personally think you should really try to avoid this, especially if you are a Calzaghe fan.

Resorting to demeaning me is not going to get you anywhere.

OK, apologies. Sometimes I get impatient.

I defend Calzaghe

This is the point - no you're not. You are defending Warren.

but even I have shown disappointment with Calzaghe's current ,status you just post 100% Kessler bias and don't criticise Kessler for anything. He was nearly going to fight Tyspko!
Unless your a promoter who works with the sanctions, then how do you know unification are not hard to make? Plus Kessler's mandatory would be enforced too and he signed an agreement to fight Andrade.

Only you said Lacy was taylor made.

Just look at the fight.

Your wrong on most of the Lacy info as well, you said Lacy was handpicked but it was Lacy who pushed for the fight. Joe rightfully had to take a pay cut for pulling out too.

I personally think your pathetic, I'll post my opinions If I like, I'm not as bad as you even though I have been biased. Let me say this again I am disappointed he gave up his belt and didn't fit one more mandatory in and not too interested in Manfredo.

You seem to ignore things because I put a little defence in.

OK. Point taken.

Cheers,
P

nickd wrote:Max the point he is trying to make is Jones fought all 3 of those Hall of Famers even though he didn't fight DM. What Hall of Famers has Calzaghe fought to lessen the blow of not fighting Kessler.... not one!

Yes, that's it.

How can you cal an offer a "bluff" that doesn't exist?

It's not a proven fact it doesn't exist. Palle wasn't calm about it either on that link.

Yeah I defend Warren a bit too.

I've seen the fight more than twice I told everyone he was getting a beating as well as KO but they refused to stop it.

Max the point he is trying to make is Jones fought all 3 of those Hall of Famers even though he didn't fight DM. What Hall of Famers has Calzaghe fought to lessen the blow of not fighting Kessler.... not one!

Hill was coming off the DM fight and Hopkins and Toney were good wins. People seem to say Hopkins was green but he's got the win officially regardless.

Lenny Albert wrote:But Axe, what people are saying is it doesn't matter who is in the WBO ratings. They don't enforce mandatories on Joe and if Warren and Enzo want to pick up a middleweight or a doorman from somewhere you can bet your house the WBO will quickly give him a ranking in the top 15. The IBF may be crap, they may have let Judah keep his title on a technicality, their rankings may seem a bit off but they will make Warren and the Calzaghe's make fights which they might not be keen on plus with purse bids Warren could lose out.

I can see your point, but it is possible that the WBO may enforce a mandatory soon after all, and that mandatory would be...none other than the great Robert Stieglitz.

Max Molyneux wrote:

How can you cal an offer a "bluff" that doesn't exist?

It's not a proven fact it doesn't exist.

Exactly. Because Warren hasn't made any terms of an offer public.

You can call a "bluff" on something that is public knowledge, like Palle's offer to Warren. Take the offer up and see what happens.

But not cannot call a bluff on something where noone knows what it is or whether it exists at all -- like the alleged Warren offer to Palle that you are referring to.

More generally, I really don't understand what's your purpose when you claim -- without any evidence to support this -- that Palle and Warren would share the blame equally if Calzaghe vs. Kessler doesn't happpen. You say you're "disappointed" about Calzaghe's opposition, but you're defending tooth and nail the guy who's arranging his fights. Seems to me that this is rather contradictory.

What I meant about Warren's alleged offer as he said he made an offer, it could be true or false as much as Palle's

Max Molyneux wrote:What I meant about Warren's alleged offer as he said he made an offer, it could be true or false as much as Palle's

But Palle said "it's USD 3,4 million for a fight in Copenhagen", record purse for Calzaghe. Here Warren could just say "oh that's great I take it" - and call the bluff if it is one.

Warren, in contrast, said "I have made some unspecified offer but I won't tell enyone what the terms are".

What is Palle supposed to say in response? "I take it" and then Warren replies "Kessler get's paid a plate of warm soup, btw, and I'll promote his next 30 fights"?

WARM soup? Tsk, he'll get it in a tin and he can warm it himself with the candle in his tiny billet.

pundit wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:What I meant about Warren's alleged offer as he said he made an offer, it could be true or false as much as Palle's

But Palle said "it's USD 3,4 million for a fight in Copenhagen", record purse for Calzaghe. Here Warren could just say "oh that's great I take it" - and call the bluff if it is one.

Warren, in contrast, said "I have made some unspecified offer but I won't tell enyone what the terms are".

What is Palle supposed to say in response? "I take it" and then Warren replies "Kessler get's paid a plate of warm soup, btw, and I'll promote his next 30 fights"?

Well the Warren offer wasn't specific enough about how much but Warren can beat that offer. Well if Palle said I take it and then Warren says that then he can say no straight away as long as he signs no contract.

But Palle could of called his bluff instead of getting angry over it.

Where would the 3.4 million(1.8 Million in British Pounds) for Calzaghe come from exactly? Palles TV contract ain't that huge.

Ahhhh Warren has spoken to Palle Mr Pundit.

Fight promoter allegedly said he had tried to make a fight for Calzaghe against Mikkel Kessler. "I've been talking to Mogens Palle, but his offer was subject to all the organisations allowing the fight to go on. But the IBF were going to make Joe fight his mandatory, and the WBC wanted Kessler to take on Andrade, and it basically fell apart."

http://www.allegedly.tv/drill/News/Ar ... notes.html

Max Molyneux wrote:Ahhhh Warren has spoken to Palle Mr Pundit.

Fight promoter allegedly allegedly said he had tried to make a fight for Calzaghe against Mikkel Kessler. "I've been talking to Mogens Palle, but his offer was subject to all the organisations allowing the fight to go on. But the IBF were going to make Joe fight his mandatory, and the WBC wanted Kessler to take on Andrade, and it basically fell apart."

http://www.allegedly.tv/drill/News/Ar ... notes.html

So what again are the terms of Warren's offer??

Max Molyneux wrote:

pundit wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:What I meant about Warren's alleged offer as he said he made an offer, it could be true or false as much as Palle's

But Palle said "it's USD 3,4 million for a fight in Copenhagen", record purse for Calzaghe. Here Warren could just say "oh that's great I take it" - and call the bluff if it is one.

Warren, in contrast, said "I have made some unspecified offer but I won't tell enyone what the terms are".

What is Palle supposed to say in response? "I take it" and then Warren replies "Kessler get's paid a plate of warm soup, btw, and I'll promote his next 30 fights"?

Well the Warren offer wasn't specific enough about how much but Warren can beat that offer. Well if Palle said I take it and then Warren says that then he can say no straight away as long as he signs no contract.

But Palle could of called his bluff instead of getting angry over it.

I've tried to explain this a few times now but now I give up.
Bottom line: one can call a bluff on an offer only if it is known what that offer is.

pundit wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Ahhhh Warren has spoken to Palle Mr Pundit.

Fight promoter allegedly allegedly allegedly said he had tried to make a fight for Calzaghe against Mikkel Kessler. "I've been talking to Mogens Palle, but his offer was subject to all the organisations allowing the fight to go on. But the IBF were going to make Joe fight his mandatory, and the WBC wanted Kessler to take on Andrade, and it basically fell apart."

http://www.allegedly.tv/drill/News/Ar ... notes.html

So what again are the terms of Warren's offer??

The quote says he spoke to Palle but HIS offer.

One of the Danish members here said Andrade was willing to take another step aside even though he or she never provided a source to that. Plus Kessler signed an agreement to fight Andrade afterwards so he has to or the WBC will strip him and you know how biased they are for Mexicans.

pundit wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:

pundit wrote: But Palle said "it's USD 3,4 million for a fight in Copenhagen", record purse for Calzaghe. Here Warren could just say "oh that's great I take it" - and call the bluff if it is one.

Warren, in contrast, said "I have made some unspecified offer but I won't tell enyone what the terms are".

What is Palle supposed to say in response? "I take it" and then Warren replies "Kessler get's paid a plate of warm soup, btw, and I'll promote his next 30 fights"?

Well the Warren offer wasn't specific enough about how much but Warren can beat that offer. Well if Palle said I take it and then Warren says that then he can say no straight away as long as he signs no contract.

But Palle could of called his bluff instead of getting angry over it.

I've tried to explain this a few times now but now I give up.
Bottom line: one can call a bluff on an offer only if it is known what that offer is.

Palle obviously knew the offer if he furiously denied it.

Max Molyneux wrote:

pundit wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote: Well the Warren offer wasn't specific enough about how much but Warren can beat that offer. Well if Palle said I take it and then Warren says that then he can say no straight away as long as he signs no contract.

But Palle could of called his bluff instead of getting angry over it.

I've tried to explain this a few times now but now I give up.
Bottom line: one can call a bluff on an offer only if it is known what that offer is.

Palle obviously knew the offer if he furiously denied it.

He furiously denied that there was an offer. And I see no reason whatsoever not to believe him. It's clear to everyone who is not totally blinded that Warren doesn't want Kessler.

Again, you're maneuvering into a sorry position here: chief defender of FWarren, incidentally the guy who ruined Joe Calzaghe's career.

Warrem didn't ruin shite, Calzaghe does have a say in his own career.

Financial and success wise it's a good career.

The way Palle denied it though Mr Pundit, oooo one of the most blantant lies in boxing history.

“It must be difficult for allegedly to look at himself in the mirror the way he lies. And he must have trouble putting on his pants each morning when he has the British press in his pockets.

"But I can tell you that it is one of the most blatant lies in bpxing history when he says that he made an offer og 1.5 million British pounds for Mikkel Kessler to fight his man, Calzaghe,” Palle says.

As for padding records they pad their own fighters with ridiculous amounts of 6 and 8 rounds.

Max, max max.. this looks desparate.

Of course you cannot "call bluff" on something noone has told you or anyone what is. How can you do that. If I said to someone that I have given you an offer to buy your house... what would you say to call my bluff? "Fine, I'll take it"?

No - you cannot. All you can do is call me a damn lier.

On the other hand if I said that I have given you an offer of 2 mill for your house THEN you can call my bluff. You can say yes and see what happens.. either it was bluff (and you will have called it) or it was not and you will get your money. Several people have already tried to explain this to you, so I am not sure if you can see the logic this time, but I think you are pretty clued in so if you don't - I will have to assume you do, but just don't want to.

Mate - Calzaghe even on his own web site said (and I quote) "I don't want Kessler .. well, ok but not untill I have fought Roy Jones, Tarver, Hopkins and Taylor... then I will CONSIDER Kessler as an opponent down the track perhaps. So it will take what... 10 years untill Joe will CONSIDER Kessler... so I reckon we are looking at 20 years before he will even enter into serious negotiations. Max, Joe does NOT want any of Kessler. Why do you think he wants to meet all these people before even considering Kessler - and then goes and fights Bika and Manfredo?

Do you think he would say "I want to fight x, y and z before I will even consider fighting Bika"?

No - only Kessler. He doe N O T want to shgare the ring with Kessler .... EVER.

Deram wrote:Max, max max.. this looks desparate.

Of course you cannot "call bluff" on something noone has told you or anyone what is. How can you do that. If I said to someone that I have given you an offer to buy your house... what would you say to call my bluff? "Fine, I'll take it"?

No - you cannot. All you can do is call me a damn lier.

On the other hand if I said that I have given you an offer of 2 mill for your house THEN you can call my bluff. You can say yes and see what happens.. either it was bluff (and you will have called it) or it was not and you will get your money. Several people have already tried to explain this to you, so I am not sure if you can see the logic this time, but I think you are pretty clued in so if you don't - I will have to assume you do, but just don't want to.

Mate - Calzaghe even on his own web site said (and I quote) "I don't want Kessler .. well, ok but not untill I have fought Roy Jones, Tarver, Hopkins and Taylor... then I will CONSIDER Kessler as an opponent down the track perhaps. So it will take what... 10 years untill Joe will CONSIDER Kessler... so I reckon we are looking at 20 years before he will even enter into serious negotiations. Max, Joe does NOT want any of Kessler. Why do you think he wants to meet all these people before even considering Kessler - and then goes and fights Bika and Manfredo?

Do you think he would say "I want to fight x, y and z before I will even consider fighting Bika"?

No - only Kessler. He doe N O T want to shgare the ring with Kessler .... EVER.

I'm not desperate, I want the Kessler fight and I have been fair on the opinion that most of you ridiculous Kessler fans.

In fact, I'm going to make a skit of Kessler fans and upload it to my youtube.

I want his March fight to be Kessler but Kessler has an agreement to fight Andrade first. I have no doubt Calzaghe will win clearly over Kessler. He's too basic for Joe, he works on the jab well but he just does basic textbook boxing.

I meant why didn't Palle call bluff on Warrens offer but instead he said the offer wasn't true, it might of been a true offer. Warren even talked to Palle.

Yeah and Joe does not write the stuff on his own site, someone is paid too and that could just be what the writer thinks. Fighters barely most likely par attention to their own site if someone is doing the site for them.

Your assumption of Joe ducking Kessler is just assumption until proven.

As for Bika he was only chosen because Stieglitz said there was no German TV dates so he turned it down.

Max Molyneux wrote:

Deram wrote:Max, max max.. this looks desparate.

Of course you cannot "call bluff" on something noone has told you or anyone what is. How can you do that. If I said to someone that I have given you an offer to buy your house... what would you say to call my bluff? "Fine, I'll take it"?

No - you cannot. All you can do is call me a damn lier.

On the other hand if I said that I have given you an offer of 2 mill for your house THEN you can call my bluff. You can say yes and see what happens.. either it was bluff (and you will have called it) or it was not and you will get your money. Several people have already tried to explain this to you, so I am not sure if you can see the logic this time, but I think you are pretty clued in so if you don't - I will have to assume you do, but just don't want to.

Mate - Calzaghe even on his own web site said (and I quote) "I don't want Kessler .. well, ok but not untill I have fought Roy Jones, Tarver, Hopkins and Taylor... then I will CONSIDER Kessler as an opponent down the track perhaps. So it will take what... 10 years untill Joe will CONSIDER Kessler... so I reckon we are looking at 20 years before he will even enter into serious negotiations. Max, Joe does NOT want any of Kessler. Why do you think he wants to meet all these people before even considering Kessler - and then goes and fights Bika and Manfredo?

Do you think he would say "I want to fight x, y and z before I will even consider fighting Bika"?

No - only Kessler. He doe N O T want to shgare the ring with Kessler .... EVER.

I'm not desperate, I want the Kessler fight and I have been fair on the opinion that most of you ridiculous Kessler fans.

In fact, I'm going to make a skit of Kessler fans and upload it to my youtube.

I want his March fight to be Kessler but Kessler has an agreement to fight Andrade first. I have no doubt Calzaghe will win clearly over Kessler. He's too basic for Joe, he works on the jab well but he just does basic textbook boxing.

I meant why didn't Palle call bluff on Warrens offer but instead he said the offer wasn't true, it might of been a true offer. Warren even talked to Palle.

Yeah and Joe does not write the stuff on his own site, someone is paid too and that could just be what the writer thinks. Fighters barely most likely par attention to their own site if someone is doing the site for them.

Your assumption of Joe ducking Kessler is just assumption until proven.

As for Bika he was only chosen because Stieglitz said there was no German TV dates so he turned it down.

Hopeless.

Get bent.

Except for the offer part I stand by the rest.