Heavyweights: Ezzard Charles vs Evander Holyfield

[Senya13]

Things everyone dreams of buying/getting change as the civilization moves on, of course, but that doesn't change basic motivation of people. For lower-paid fighters it's food, clothes, kids, etc. For higher-paid, it's decrease of motivation for fighting, as there is less to prove or get things you don't have. Sometimes there are exceptions, of course, but overall, things haven't changed.

[Ezzard]

Things everyone dreams of buying/getting change as the civilization moves on, of course, but that doesn't change basic motivation of people. For lower-paid fighters it's food, clothes, kids, etc. For higher-paid, it's decrease of motivation for fighting, as there is less to prove or get things you don't have. Sometimes there are exceptions, of course, but overall, things haven't changed.

We'll have to disagree on this one. I don't believe motivations are relative.

[The Great John L]

Things everyone dreams of buying/getting change as the civilization moves on, of course, but that doesn't change basic motivation of people. For lower-paid fighters it's food, clothes, kids, etc. For higher-paid, it's decrease of motivation for fighting, as there is less to prove or get things you don't have. Sometimes there are exceptions, of course, but overall, things haven't changed.

There’s a big difference between fighting in order to make a rent payment and buy the next weeks food, and fighting in order to send your kids to private school or to buy a better car. As quality of life improves in a society, the general motivation of the populace reduces. This is more sociology than psychology, and also very basic. It’s the accepted basis for why societies rise and fall in influence, money and power, and can be traced effectively throughout history. The same thing that applies to societies also applies to the individuals within those societies, although obviously there are always exceptions to the general trends.

[Senya13]

The type of motivation doesn't change much. The goals do, but not the basics.

[dempseyfire]

Things everyone dreams of buying/getting change as the civilization moves on, of course, but that doesn't change basic motivation of people. For lower-paid fighters it's food, clothes, kids, etc. For higher-paid, it's decrease of motivation for fighting, as there is less to prove or get things you don't have. Sometimes there are exceptions, of course, but overall, things haven't changed.

There’s a big difference between fighting in order to make a rent payment and buy the next weeks food, and fighting in order to send your kids to private school or to buy a better car. As quality of life improves in a society, the general motivation of the populace reduces. This is more sociology than psychology, and also very basic. It’s the accepted basis for why societies rise and fall in influence, money and power, and can be traced effectively throughout history. The same thing that applies to societies also applies to the individuals within those societies, although obviously there are always exceptions to the general trends.

Thank you John L. This is a question of sociology and not psychology.

This is why you have far less boxers in the United States now than you did 80 years ago.

[Senya13]

Oranges and apples. Number of fighters has nothing to do with psychology of fighters, their actions in the ring. It has been repeated in history many times, where previous generation thinks little of modern generation. Bareknucklers thought the gloved boxers were weaklings. 1900's missed Sullivan, Corbett, Jackson, Nonpareil Dempsey, and so on and so on. It is in the newspapers, magazines, books, all the time the authors miss the old times and think that modern boxing is weak and unexciting. Sorry, but this is the psychology of yours, not of fighters of the past or of modern age.

[The Great John L]

Oranges and apples. Number of fighters has nothing to do with psychology of fighters, their actions in the ring. It has been repeated in history many times, where previous generation thinks little of modern generation. Bareknucklers thought the gloved boxers were weaklings. 1900's missed Sullivan, Corbett, Jackson, Nonpareil Dempsey, and so on and so on. It is in the newspapers, magazines, books, all the time the authors miss the old times and think that modern boxing is weak and unexciting. Sorry, but this is the psychology of yours, not of fighters of the past or of modern age.

Thanks, I think this post sums up not only your beliefs but your general qualifications for discussing this subject very nicely.

[Ezzard]

I do agree that people tend to look back to the fighters from a certain time in their life. Most people here though can check in their personal prejudices and get on with discussion.

I became a boxing fan in the 1980s a time when the heavyweight division had a hangover from the 1970s. The arguments then were that HWs were a disgrace (most of them were big, fat out of shape guys with little self-discipline) or that they were too big for HWs of previous generations to cope with.

[Senya13]

I posted it several times either here or on east side forum, selected articles from different epochs, where the fighters of the old were praised and modern fighters considered inferior to them. If my memory doesn't fail me, it was one article from 1900's, from 1910's, one from 1940's, 1950's, and, of course, for anyone having the Ring magazines, there are plenty of them in the 1960, 1970 and until now, where the situation is exactly the same.
So you may doubt my qualification and my objectivity as much as you want, but facts prove me right, and you wrong, sorry.

[Senya13]

I really don't care about the time when this or that fighter fought. In my personal P4P rating, I have fighters from different times, although 4 out of 10 are from 1940-1950

1. Joe Gans - 1890-1900
2. Benny Leonard - 1910-1920
3. Sugar Ray Robinson 1940-1950
4. Roy Jones Jr 1990-2000
5. Sam Langford 1900-1910
6. Henry Armstrong 1930-1940
7. Willie Pep 1940-1950
8. Ezzard Charles 1940-1950
9. Kid Gavilan 1940-1950
10. Barney Ross 1930