BoxRec

stujones wrote:

Goz wrote:Good anaylysis Hitman and I agree that the first was the only round Hopkins won clearly.

Just out of curosity... how many did you think Joe won CLEARLY.

Stu I think probbaly 4/5 rounds. Would have to review the fight again to say which ones exactly.

I found my feelings similar to a fight like Tito-DLH where many felt Oscar outboxed Trinidad and to an extent he did but he didn't make enough of it (I scored for Trinidad in that one).

Sure Hopkins looked cute, great footwork and feints but he really didn't actually punch Calzaghe very much and punching people is the object of boxing!

I think the issue is do you prefer milling, cuffing shots with little skill, just pure volume or proper counters, superb defence and ring generalship??

If I want to watch poor technique I will go and watch UFC, after watching the fight again I maintain Bernard put on a masterclass and made Joe look like an amateur, the wrong man won

Goz wrote:

stujones wrote:

Goz wrote:Good anaylysis Hitman and I agree that the first was the only round Hopkins won clearly.

Just out of curosity... how many did you think Joe won CLEARLY.

Stu I think probbaly 4/5 rounds. Would have to review the fight again to say which ones exactly.

I found my feelings similar to a fight like Tito-DLH where many felt Oscar outboxed Trinidad and to an extent he did but he didn't make enough of it (I scored for Trinidad in that one).

Sure Hopkins looked cute, great footwork and feints but he really didn't actually punch Calzaghe very much and punching people is the object of boxing!

I scored the Trinidad vs DLH fight to Tito (and everyone knows how much of a fan of the Golden boy I am)..... just DLH didn't have the authority in his punches, and Tito's aggression was more effective.

Hopkins though was carrying the weight of punches, his 1 to 2 punches was causing more damage than Calzaghe's 4-5 punches and he often had the last word in exchanges... DLH vs Trinidad differed.

thepocketrocket wrote:I think the issue is do you prefer milling, cuffing shots with little skill, just pure volume or proper counters, superb defence and ring generalship??

If I want to watch poor technique I will go and watch UFC, after watching the fight again I maintain Bernard put on a masterclass and made Joe look like an amateur, the wrong man won

Throwing three punches a round and grabbing at every oppurtunity added to pretending to be hit low while sticking the head in is NOT ring generalship.

Hopkins should pack it in.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I thought Calzaghe won quite clearly - close but clear, if you get my drift. Hopkins was looking to hold at every single opportunity and if one man a) makes almost all the running in the fight and b) lands twice as many punches as him...I can't see why people are whining.

How many of Joe's shots were proper scoring punches though? Cuffing slaps don't score in my book, he hardly landed a single quality punch in the entire fight.

A lot of the rounds were very hard to score. Slappy scrappy shots from Calzaghe that barely landed at all, and flicking jabs that it was hard to tell if they landed at all.

In truth it was a really shit fight, and neither man looked good as a result.

Hopkins is a complete tosser as well. That play acting he indulged in was really quite disgraceful. He tried so hard to get a point taken off Joe. Rather than try and win the fight, he looked to nick it any which way.

I'm glad Hopkins lost, he's a really boring ugly fighter with a very negative attitude. As said by others, he's just John Ruiz with a big mouth who can't back up his talk with any actual work in the ring.

If there was a rematch, Joe would beat him easily. He showed him a bit too much respect and wouldn't have such a poor start as he did second time around.

fornicating Joe Cortez did more fighting than Hopkins trying to break Calzaghe out of Borehop's clinches.

Never ever say that this clown is a throwback or an alltime great.

He couldn't have carried the spit bucket for Hagler,Monzon,Hearns,Cerdan,Zale,Benn Briscoe and others.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I thought Calzaghe won quite clearly - close but clear, if you get my drift. Hopkins was looking to hold at every single opportunity and if one man a) makes almost all the running in the fight and b) lands twice as many punches as him...I can't see why people are whining.

How many of Joe's shots were proper scoring punches though? Cuffing slaps don't score in my book, he hardly landed a single quality punch in the entire fight.

A lot of the rounds were very hard to score. Slappy scrappy shots from Calzaghe that barely landed at all, and flicking jabs that it was hard to tell if they landed at all.

In truth it was a really shit fight, and neither man looked good as a result.

Hopkins is a complete tosser as well. That play acting he indulged in was really quite disgraceful. He tried so hard to get a point taken off Joe. Rather than try and win the fight, he looked to nick it any which way.

I'm glad Hopkins lost, he's a really boring ugly fighter with a very negative attitude. As said by others, he's just John Ruiz with a big mouth who can't back up his talk with any actual work in the ring.

If there was a rematch, Joe would beat him easily. He showed him a bit too much respect and wouldn't have such a poor start as he did second time around.

Yes James, surely punch quality and punch effect (on the opponent) must have an baring on the scoring.... this isn't the amateurs.

ebeneezer wrote: He couldn't have carried the spit bucket for Hagler,Monzon,Hearns,Cerdan,Zale,Benn Briscoe and others.

Lets see any of the forementioend fight Calazage at the age of 43 and see how well they do. He beats them all for my money

thepocketrocket wrote:Well, if we want to see a sport with little skill and just pure agression we have found it, what a load of ass that was!!!

Hopkins did all the cleaner work, made Joe fight at his pace...I was supporting Joe but Im not going to join in with any 'Oh, hes British so its OK 'crap, I love this sport and that was just wrong, whether Joe was from Wales, England or Blood Guatemala!!!

I said all along there would be controversy with the judges - just thought they would favour Hopkins.

However with that said I am bloody glad Calzaghe won - although at first I thought I had Hopkins one up at the end but when I rescored the fight had it a draw.

It was far from a disgrace some of the rounds were very difficult to score indeed.

Spud wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:Well, if we want to see a sport with little skill and just pure agression we have found it, what a load of ass that was!!!

Hopkins did all the cleaner work, made Joe fight at his pace...I was supporting Joe but Im not going to join in with any 'Oh, hes British so its OK 'crap, I love this sport and that was just wrong, whether Joe was from Wales, England or Blood Guatemala!!!

I said all along there would be controversy with the judges - just thought they would favour Hopkins.

However with that said I am bloody glad Calzaghe won - although at first I thought I had Hopkins one up at the end but when I rescored the fight had it a draw.

It was far from a disgrace some of the rounds were very difficult to score indeed.

I think thats where I differ to alot of fight fans, I just want to see the right man win - irrespective of whom I am cheering on.

If the guy who I am cheering on RIGHTFULLY gets the decision - then double bonus.

If the guy I am cheering on wins, and I disagree, then I am still upset

Oh come on it was hardly the steal of the century there have been far worse decisions!!!

Whilst I accept 2 wrongs don't make a right - I will state again some of the rounds were difficult to score.

If you pressed me and asked me who I thought deserved to win on the performance - I have to say Hopkins.

Just glad Calzaghe won - good for British sport.

We can now await the media and the hype surrounding the fight of the century when Hatton meets Lazcano - or thats at least what the media will hype up and make out the fight is.

It was a shitty fight and not one I care to revisit.

Neither man covered himself in glory. Lets just move on, away from what was always going to be a horrible cash of styles, and see what they can both produce in their respective next fights.

There certainly wont be any clamour for a re-match!

Personally, I thought it was a very difficult fight to score, but I had Calzaghe the winner by seven rounds to five, minus one for the knockdown. Hopkins simply didn't do enough, and although he would land the one or two clean blows of a round, Calzaghe's activity and work rate, and, I should remind those like McDonnell who believe Hopkins landed more and Calzaghe hardly anything decent, Joe's vastly superior scoring punches just about nicked it for me. Check out the compubox figures. Joe out landed Hopkins by loads, and was considerably more accurate, too.

Further, Joe dominated the last half of the fight and was looking to really turn the heat up until Hopkins perpetrated what the Russian commentators called "a pantomime", allowing him to catch his breath.

Let's not forget, either, that Joe never, ever fights well against defensive fighters or counterpunchers, and will always look diamond against Lacy-types. Although Calzaghe is certainly slowing, the new location, the travelling, the new weight, and the style matchup all made this a tough assignment for Cazlaghe.

It should also be noted that one of the reasons that the fight was tough to score was Hopkins's reprehensible cheating and the fact that Cortez had no control at all.

Mr Supposedly Fair but Firm was niether firm nor fair, and infact would have been justified for taking points off Hopkins for either use of the head, which was continuous, and clinching, which reached truly absurd levels in the final quarter of the fight. In fact, Hopkins could have conceivable lost points for both -- and should have.

This made the fight difficult to score and smothered a great deal of Calzaghe's work, allowing Hopkins to 'show' with his one or two clean punches. A better refereeing performance would have led to a clearer cut decision in favour of Calzaghe, in my view. It's hard to believe that this is the same man who refereed the Hatton - Mayweather fight.

Anyway, well done to Joe. He's got past the toughest opponent both in terms of the style matchup and the quality. Everything now should be gravy.

As someone said, 2 Hopkings punches outweigh 56 Calzaghe cuffing shots, this aint the Olympics!!

One thing I do think has happened, Hopkins has pissed the judges off so much with his antics that they have 'missed' his sneak shots..they are too busy being annoyed by the headbutt he threw 2 seconds before!!

The question is who looked in command, stronger, better punches, fighting at his pace?? The answer is Hopkins

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

ebeneezer wrote: He couldn't have carried the spit bucket for Hagler,Monzon,Hearns,Cerdan,Zale,Benn Briscoe and others.

Lets see any of the forementioend fight Calazage at the age of 43 and see how well they do. He beats them all for my money

Been watching a fair bit of Cerdan lately. I think he'd give Hopkins a good hiding and a taste of real rough and tumble.

Jesus, Marcel Cerdan-Joe Calzaghe...Calzaghe would be retired!!!

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

ebeneezer wrote: He couldn't have carried the spit bucket for Hagler,Monzon,Hearns,Cerdan,Zale,Benn Briscoe and others.

Lets see any of the forementioend fight Calazage at the age of 43 and see how well they do. He beats them all for my money

Been watching a fair bit of Cerdan lately. I think he'd give Hopkins a good hiding and a taste of real rough and tumble.

Zale would've removed his head.

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

ebeneezer wrote: He couldn't have carried the spit bucket for Hagler,Monzon,Hearns,Cerdan,Zale,Benn Briscoe and others.

Lets see any of the forementioend fight Calazage at the age of 43 and see how well they do. He beats them all for my money

Been watching a fair bit of Cerdan lately. I think he'd give Hopkins a good hiding and a taste of real rough and tumble.

He could fight a fair bit couldnt he? (for a naturalised Frenchman at least! )

I dont think any of Hopkins rough house 'tricks' would have phased the Algerian - he survived Tony Zale's worst - Cerdan by clear points win if he ever met Hopkins I reckon.

Cerdan is great fun to watch, and it's a great KO vs Zale although Zale was well past his best by the time they fought.

Zale Hopkins would have been a pretty rough fight.

Terry D wrote:

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

Terry D wrote: Been watching a fair bit of Cerdan lately. I think he'd give Hopkins a good hiding and a taste of real rough and tumble.

Zale would've removed his head.

Funnily managed to get two versions of Cerdan-Zale. One highlights and one full. The KO was class. Zale's lower body stood firm and his upper body just gave up the ghost. Classic KO.

For those who havent seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_KkVujMd_8

thepocketrocket wrote:As someone said, 2 Hopkings punches outweigh 56 Calzaghe cuffing shots, this aint the Olympics!!

One thing I do think has happened, Hopkins has pissed the judges off so much with his antics that they have 'missed' his sneak shots..they are too busy being annoyed by the headbutt he threw 2 seconds before!!

The question is who looked in command, stronger, better punches, fighting at his pace?? The answer is Hopkins

I can agree with the 116-111, Joe looked bad but Hopkins did a shocking amount of holding, then he would throw punches that missed so he could lean In with the head. He landed the odd single shot and strangely alot score the fight close.

Then he fakes a low blow and makes the actual acidental low blow(because of his Ruiz holding) worse than It was.

Not a close fight at all.

As for the Olympic comment, Joe landed alot In his volume punches.

Hopkins cheated his way through the fight he didn't win at all.

thepocketrocket wrote:
If I want to watch poor technique I will go and watch UFC

Thats a bit of an illinformed statement. Theres huge amounts of technique involved in UFC - I would say too much at times. The boxing is pretty ordinary. But most of those guys aren't boxers so really you might as well judge a scrum half on his ability to throw a right hand.

TerribleTerry wrote:

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Lets see any of the forementioend fight Calazage at the age of 43 and see how well they do. He beats them all for my money

Been watching a fair bit of Cerdan lately. I think he'd give Hopkins a good hiding and a taste of real rough and tumble.

He could fight a fair bit couldnt he? (for a naturalised Frenchman at least! )

I dont think any of Hopkins rough house 'tricks' would have phased the Algerian - he survived Tony Zale's worst - Cerdan by clear points win if he ever met Hopkins I reckon.

He wouldn't need to rough house him, Hopkins would just box his ears and counter him all night. Cerdans far too undersized for Hopkins at 5'8 and a massive reach advantage.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: He wouldn't need to rough house him, Hopkins would just box his ears and counter him all night. Cerdans far too undersized for Hopkins at 5'8 and a massive reach advantage.

By that same rationale PN Hopkins could simply box Hagler's ears off as well then; after all he is a similarly undersized 5'8..

And that is why Kingsley Ikeke, at 6'4, is the greatest middleweight of all time. No one could match his reach and size so he simply boxed everyone's ears off

TerribleTerry wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: He wouldn't need to rough house him, Hopkins would just box his ears and counter him all night. Cerdans far too undersized for Hopkins at 5'8 and a massive reach advantage.

By that same rationale PN Hopkins could simply box Hagler's ears off as well then; after all he is a similarly undersized 5'8..

And that is why Kingsley Ikeke, at 6'4, is the greatest middleweight of all time. No one could match his reach and size so he simply boxed everyone's ears off

Hopkins has excellent timing, movement, tactics, defense and he uses his height and reach to maximise these assets. In raw skill Hopkins is a class above Cerdan, who is very good, but not in the same class. Ikeke is obviously is a class below all those fighters

Remember in his prime Hopkins could throw a boatload of shots a round too. Look at the Johnson and Trinidad fights amongst others.

Maybe BHOPS would have beat Hagler, its a tough 1 to call