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Re: Withering anti-Warren tirade from Haye
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 10:49
by nickd
Autobarn wrote:
Haye's never going to have 20 title defences, but don't be surprised if he has the same # of "defining fights" as Joe had.
If we're talking defining fights Haye is only 1 or 2 behind in less than half the contests.
Re: Withering anti-Warren tirade from Haye
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 11:25
by Max Molyneux
Chambers2 wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Yes, I said Haye gassed at Euro level but I also said Haye gassed against Mormeck. Mormeck was clearly world class.
How was Haye gassed?? he paced the first half of the fight then turned up the heat at the halfway mark and stopped him, also how did a gassed Haye stop a granite chinned JMM (or Frago come to that).
Everything that is not JC is shit in your eyes, I find it amazing how any British boxing fan can criticise Haye so freely considering his style and his willingness to take on the best, which is a rare trait for a British boxer in his mid twenties.
(I also agree that the traditional route needs to be maintained)
Haye's stamina was better when he fought Macca, against Mormeck, he needed to pace because he was weight drained coming down from 230lbs. I have a valid opinion.
O'Neil Bell stopped Mormeck too, he's good chined still though.
The last paragraph coming from someone who rates Carl Froch?
Yes, no one disagrees the traditional route needs to be maintained.
Re: Withering anti-Warren tirade from Haye
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 11:32
by Max Molyneux
Terry D wrote:Haye has only fought 2 or 3 tough fighters at best, his Euro defenses were hardly hard opponents and he looked gassed In many of them.
Gassed vs Mormeck, that Dane and bored Vs Abdoul.
I wish Haye was going to fight more than just 4 fightsat Heavyweight, It's hardly exciting to see him have a short term go at the weight and he won't become undisputed either really.
Yes, I said Haye gassed at Euro level but I also said Haye gassed against Mormeck. Mormeck was clearly world class.
How can anyone read anything other than the implication that you were saying Haye gassed versus Euro level fighters and that Mormeck was one of them. You only called him world class after I pointed it out to you!
Also how do you work out Haye gassing badly versus JMM. He paced the fight beautifuly, touchdown aside, and had obviously watched tapes of Mormeck's previous fights, figured out what he could produce, and produced it to win the fight.
After the fight the Macca contingent kept saying Haye only throws 20 shots a round and did so versus JMM but in truth Haye throws the best possible shots a lot of the time. Including lots of left hooks to the body on the inside.
Prior to Haye-Macca you went for Macca and gave Haye little credit, now you want to reduce the level of the JMM win, you failed in that statement, so you then make out that it was the final gamble of a dead tired fighter, that is also wrong. You simply do not give credit where due and it seems to be based on an obsession with the Calzaghe camp.
I am also pretty sure that we will see more than 4 Haye fights at heavyweight. Then again it only took Haye a single world title fight to become undisputed at Cruiserweight so you never know. He is a man in a hurry, he will not hang around for ten years waiting for the challenge of unification to become realisable.
If I said Mormeck was euro level I would of typed "Including Mormeck at Euro level" Something like that.
Yep threw body shots to Mormeck while leaving his chin open to getting hit flush with a left hook resulting In jelly legs.
I picked Macca because Haye Is weight drained at Cruiser and looked gassed In fights prior to that while Macca makes the weight easy, plus Haye's guard Is way too low and reliant on reflexes making him not hard to hit. Why do I have to give credit while saying why I think whoever will win? I gave credit when he blasted Enzo In 2. It was a valid pick until he sparked Enzo.
You might as well said that to anyone else who picked Enzo. I didn't mind who won In the end.
If Mormeck didn't hold the undisputed Cruiser title, would Haye of unified all the belts and stayed at cruiser with one belt? He was In a hurry after all to get to heavy.
Re: Withering anti-Warren tirade from Haye
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 11:51
by Autobarn
Haye has looked tired in fights at cruiserweight. However, you have to factor that the guys he fought all had time to prepare for him, took the fights at plenty of notice, some of them had fought Haye in the amas and beaten him, all had winning records - adding an extra competitive angle - and most of them made cruiserweight a lot easier than Haye does.
Re: Withering anti-Warren tirade from Haye
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 12:08
by Chambers2
Max Molyneux wrote:Chambers2 wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Yes, I said Haye gassed at Euro level but I also said Haye gassed against Mormeck. Mormeck was clearly world class.
How was Haye gassed?? he paced the first half of the fight then turned up the heat at the halfway mark and stopped him, also how did a gassed Haye stop a granite chinned JMM (or Frago come to that).
Everything that is not JC is shit in your eyes, I find it amazing how any British boxing fan can criticise Haye so freely considering his style and his willingness to take on the best, which is a rare trait for a British boxer in his mid twenties.
(I also agree that the traditional route needs to be maintained)
Haye's stamina was better when he fought Macca, against Mormeck, he needed to pace because he was weight drained coming down from 230lbs. I have a valid opinion.
O'Neil Bell stopped Mormeck too, he's good chined still though.
The last paragraph coming from someone who rates Carl Froch?
Yes, no one disagrees the traditional route needs to be maintained.
How could you tell Hayes stamina was better against Macca than it was against Mormeck when he won in 2 rounds?
Froch is trying to fight the best and has been matched aggressively, so I can't see your point. It's not as though he's cherry-picked a load of soft-touch opponents, ala JC prior to Lacy.
Regarding the traditional route comment that was aimed at the other debate that's going on in this thread which is why I put it in brackets
Re: Withering anti-Warren tirade from Haye
Posted: 04 Jun 2008, 16:39
by THEBUTCH
Oh dear! How does stamina come into matters in fight that ended in less than 2 rounds? Please watch the masacre again.
Practically every boxer's records speaks for themselves. Haye dominated Europe and conquered the world in no uncertain terms, at Cruiserweight. Now he's ready crash the heavyweight scene. It's inspiring stuff from Haye and it's no wonder the boxing world are responding so enthusiastically. Haye fights the fights the fans want to see and hasn't wasted anytime in doing so, unlike Calzaghe who will forever be maligned and remembered as a boxer who missed shed loads of world class match ups.
British boxing will always have it's own antidote to SN's toxic in the form of boxers like Haye, Froch, Moore, Appleby etc.