BoxRec

stujones wrote:I disagree on a few accounts there.

1) Gomez was never "getting battered" by Arthur - he was well up.

2) Gomez wasn't even a four round fighter vs Khan... Khan shots in the opener shook him too his boots and his strength was gone in the 3rd.... watch the fight again. He would come forward and basically lean on Khan mouth wide open and make try one or two arm punches. Caught him with a beaut in the 4th - but that was it.

It was Khan's strength and punching power that stopped the Gomez head movement, and slowed his legs down - and he did it earlier than any other fighter.

Yes, his performance reminded me of DLH vs Chavez II - which tactically I suppose wasn't right, but Khan knew, just like DLH knew that his power was having an effect and slowing him down and he also knew that Chavez/Gomez's punches were having less and less effect the more Khan/DLH were landed hard shots of their own.

End of the day he won in exiting, crowd pleasing fashion and aside from a combined 40 second spell it was easy.

No Arthur never totally battered Gomez but he did batter him whenever it was at long range - which it was at the start. The reason Gomez was in that fight was because Arthur just abandoned his jab.

Three rounds of clever work from Khan would left Gomez nowhere and with nothing. You say 40 seconds, I reckon a bit longer but either way it only takes 1 second to lose a fight. Its not like Khan didn't have reason to work up tactics that protected his chin or give him an advantage- De La Hoya he is not.

Whether Khan won easy or whether the fight was exciting is a different question to whether his tactics were unimpressive which is what I'm saying. In a closer fight, tactics will be crucial - maybe Khan will shape up here against a better opponent, maybe he won't.

Agree with all that, with the exception of the Arthur fight stuff... he abondoned the jab very early then, goes Gomez won the first.... Arthur didn't fight well tactically I agree, but I don't think he used the jab for a sustained period to know if he would have battered Gomez with it.

No Khan isn't a DLH, but Gomez isn't a Chavez either. Yes, 1 second could change a fight - but Gomez never had Khan in dire straights (limond did). Even the 40 seconds (or more) - call it a minute tops that Khan lost... he was hardly on the verge of being stopped. Despite the rediculous call from Duke McKenzie that his legs were gone in the 2nd or doubled over in the 4th. The Body shot Nuumbembe caught Anderson with, that is being doubled over.

Khan knew that Gomez, whilst tough was struggling to absorb his shots (every round he was nailed to the ropes)... Khan, while I am not proclaiming he has a McCullough like chin, was never in significant trouble against Gomez.

He fought this fight tactically, cause he knew he could hurt Gomez....more so than Gomez could hurt him (just as DLH and Chavez II). Had he not felt this, then I think he would have boxed more ala the St Clair... he knew he couldn't hurt him.

Some good points, and on the subject of Powell, I don't remember Oliver Harrison ever being asked his opinions during the post-fight interview?

They asked that fornicating slimeball and he rattled off a couple of cliches before turning to Fwank. Khan looked like a naughty schoolboy for a few seconds there, for letting Warren down.

If he insists on dumping Oliver, Khan should get rid of Warren and Powell and go to America for the proper experience - quickly.

GBP would snap him up and sort him a good trainer, a trainer who will teach him how to dilute his desire to KO everyone put in front of him. The St Clair performance was brilliant, if he'd shown that discipline v a shopworn Gomez he wouldn't be getting the criticism he is now.

stujones wrote:Agree with all that, with the exception of the Arthur fight stuff... he abondoned the jab very early then, goes Gomez won the first.... Arthur didn't fight well tactically I agree, but I don't think he used the jab for a sustained period to know if he would have battered Gomez with it.

If I remember it correctly, and admittedly I havent watched it again recently, Arthur got caught cold at the very start of the first then put some distance between himself and Gomez from the middle of round one to the middle of round three - and boxed beautifully behind the jab. Gomez looked outclassed in the second. It made a very strong impression at the time as the textbook way to defeat Gomez. Then he tried to trade with Gomez on the inside and it was all over. There was zero evidence that Khan had even watched this fight before going into the ring with Gomez.

Not sure, he battered him in the first by keeping gomez at range and snapping out the jab, then, like arthur, left the gameplan behind and went to trade.

I don't understand the CRITICISM Terry.

You say Gomez is shot to shit etc etc etc - not saying your not wrong.... you say we should expect Khan to hit an easy target with ease.... again not saying your not wrong.

BUT, Khan DID this.

The criticism of this match up were done well before the fight......Gomez shot to shit, its a mismatch etc. Sorry, in my opinion thats how it transpired. Gomez may have had two brief moments in which he hurt (but didn't ever have in serious trouble) Khan... but Khan treated Gomez with the contempt that a faded Super Featherweight who was hurting ever time Khan landed a combination deserved.

I'm sorry, contempt and deserved are not the correct words to use.... but I hope you know what I mean. Khan knew he was hurting Gomez, he knew that Gomez was a 5 round fighter, he knew that he was stronger than Gomez, he also knew that Gomez couldn't really trouble him - hurt him yes, but have him close to stoppage no.

I saw this fight as similar to Kastidis vs Earl... Earl had a moment (which was bigger than Gomez's moment) but aside from that it was a painful mismatch. Kastidis, got a heap of praise on this forum for that performance, Khan has had non stop criticism.

It is clear you don't like Powell, by your continual reference to him being an "odd job boy" - Powell (and I am sounding like his #1 fan now) was a good trainer before his association with Sports Network... heaping praise from Jim Watt and Barry on Mid 90's Sky shows... he also, in my opinion, is the main reason why Joe "beat" Hopkins.... Enzo had lost it (as Bernard predicted) - it was Powell that helped turn the tide... enough to win the fight, no not in my opinion - but if Joe had continued listened to his old man then a heavy points defeat was the outcome.

Although from a fight FANS point of view - he is a poor match maker.

DCIAC - Yes, maybe using the jab is a key to beat Gomez - the blue print... But when he lost to Bognar and Johannesson the key was to get him on the back foot. Gomez is half the fighter on the back foot, the key is to use outstrength Gomez - his strength and aggression is his main assest - nulify that, and you've got hm. Just like the key to beating Tyson.

stujones wrote:I don't understand the CRITICISM Terry.

You say Gomez is shot to shit etc etc etc - not saying your not wrong.... you say we should expect Khan to hit an easy target with ease.... again not saying your not wrong.

BUT, Khan DID this.

The criticism of this match up were done well before the fight......Gomez shot to shit, its a mismatch etc. Sorry, in my opinion thats how it transpired. Gomez may have had two brief moments in which he hurt (but didn't ever have in serious trouble) Khan... but Khan treated Gomez with the contempt that a faded Super Featherweight who was hurting ever time Khan landed a combination deserved.

I'm sorry, contempt and deserved are not the correct words to use.... but I hope you know what I mean. Khan knew he was hurting Gomez, he knew that Gomez was a 5 round fighter, he knew that he was stronger than Gomez, he also knew that Gomez couldn't really trouble him - hurt him yes, but have him close to stoppage no.

I saw this fight as similar to Kastidis vs Earl... Earl had a moment (which was bigger than Gomez's moment) but aside from that it was a painful mismatch. Kastidis, got a heap of praise on this forum for that performance, Khan has had non stop criticism.

It is clear you don't like Powell, by your continual reference to him being an "odd job boy" - Powell (and I am sounding like his #1 fan now) was a good trainer before his association with Sports Network... heaping praise from Jim Watt and Barry on Mid 90's Sky shows... he also, in my opinion, is the main reason why Joe "beat" Hopkins.... Enzo had lost it (as Bernard predicted) - it was Powell that helped turn the tide... enough to win the fight, no not in my opinion - but if Joe had continued listened to his old man then a heavy points defeat was the outcome.

Although from a fight FANS point of view - he is a poor match maker.

DCIAC - Yes, maybe using the jab is a key to beat Gomez - the blue print... But when he lost to Bognar and Johannesson the key was to get him on the back foot. Gomez is half the fighter on the back foot, the key is to use outstrength Gomez - his strength and aggression is his main assest - nulify that, and you've got hm. Just like the key to beating Tyson.

LOL, are you actually saying that gomez wasn't capable of stopping Khan?

What I suggested was the Khan knew that Gomez couldn't take his power, if Gomez could that I suspect we would have seen a Gary St Clair esque performance. The reason Khan fought as he did vs St Clair was he knew he couldn't hurt him.

You say Khan fought silly, its not spin but I disagree. If I had a fighter, how would I tell them to fght Gomez - I'd tell them to "try and get him on the back foot as often as possible" cause Gomez isn't half as effective on the back foot. Which is what Khan did.

Tyson was a four round (if that) fighter vs Williams and McBride - did either just say "now I'll just jab a bit until he gets knackared" no... cause Tyson would have been more than a four round fighter if he was allowed to fight his fight. Same with Gomez, and his fight would be to come forward and be agressive even taking the jab (which wouldn't have been near as powerful with Khan going backwards) in the attempt to land the haymaker. That would have been Gomez in his confort and he would have gone on for a few more rounds.

I haven't seen all of Gomez's defeats in full - but the key to most of his defeats has been the ability to get him going backwards, once you've got him going backwards you've got him beat. To get him going backwards, you've got to stand your ground (for greater punch power) and that runs the risk of Gomez catching you - and Johannsson and Bognar at least did get caught in their wins.

Khan just knew he would break Gomez far quicker if he did just go balls to the floor. He knew he has a better work rate and was stronger. DLH could have had a much easier nights work in the Chavez rematch, but he knew he was the stronger man and knew he could afford to take some risks. DLH needed a first meeting to realise this, Khan knew after the first jab - which I could see also it was a shot that you could see made Gomez think twice.

Riddick Blowe - well who won the fight? Who got the stoppage. No Gomez wasn't capable of stopping Khan. He had him down but never in severe trouble. I don't think anyone should have scored that round 10-8 to Gomez, cause Khan was well on top for most of the round (and the KD happend within the first 30 seconds).

If Gomez was a few years younger and a few pounds naturally heavier - then who knows. But the 2008 version of Gomez doesn't throw enough punches to put Khan in Serious trouble.

are you crazy? gomez was marauding forward and hurting khan with everything he landed! Lucky for khan he couldnt land much. if the ref hadnt dived in for the usual quick stoppage, gomez could easily have taken him into the trenches and stopped him.

glass chinned fighters like Khan are generally capable of being stopped by a lot of fighters....

Applogies for not acknowledging that didn't call Powell a boy. You called him a man.

I wasn't referring to the Tyson vs Williams fight from the perspective of Tyson's fighting style, but the style Williams adopted to fight Mike (and you know it).

You have a big punching 4 round fighter who loves to come forward. So what would have advice him to do? Stand back, pop the jab, tuck up and generally survive untill he gasses? Sounds logical, but it doesn't necessary work. The "4 round fighter" will become more than that if he is fighting it on his terms. I still maintain that Wlad's stamina is iffy, the reason why he has gone 12 recently and easily is because he has been fighting on his terms.

No, you push the "bully" back, you push the agressive fighter back. Craig Watson's best rounds against Matthew Hatton came when he became more aggressive and pushed the naturally stronger and bigger Hatton back. Why? Cause Hatton can't fight on the back foot, Mike Tyson wasn't near as effective if he wasn't going forward (which Williams seeked to do from the off - nearly getting KO'd in the process, but getting the win he wouldn't have got fighting any other way), Michael Gomez can't fight on the back foot.

There is hurt and there is hurt... some people believe that Lazcano hurt Ricky Hatton? I think he did once or twice also, but not enough for Ricky to think "lets change a tactic now". I think a similar level of hurt was inflicted on Khan. Khan was up at about 3 (so hardly a "hard" KD) for the KD and with the body shot, about 15 seconds later Gomez was being pummelled to the ropes. Oh yeah, he was really in massive trouble. Even the rediculously pro Gomez commentary said a minute after the KD "it looks like Gomez's chance has past".

I think the analogy of Khan/Gomez and DLH/Chavez is quite accurate. As you said Khan is no DLH (which I agree) and as I said, which you failed to acknowledge, Gomez is no Chavez. DLH with his superior skills set and strength knew he could a few risks vs Chavez in the rematch and he did. Watch that fight again, the whole Mexican Mechismo hype got to DLH and he fought marvelously, but silly also - I am sure Tito Trinidad was licking his lips thinks, fights like that vs me and he is going to be floored. Khan was in a similar boat.. yes he knew Gomez couldn't have him in serious trouble (as I said 15 seconds after he was "severely" hurt Gomez was being pummelled to the ropes and within a punch of two of being stopped).... more importantly he knew that he could hurt Gomez.

As you say he MAY not how to defend himself when sterner tests arrive... but that is not necessarily the case and lots not forget, the other two times he hit the canvas he was with Harrison - so its not like we have seen him go from Floyd Mayweather to Wayne McCullough defensively in one fight. I suspect that if he knew he couldn't have hurt Gomez then we would have seen a far less regless display. Just as Tito Trinidad was licking his lips at DLH performance in the Chavez rematch, I am sure the top Lightweights are doing the same. Will Khan fight the same, don't know - but we shouldn't write him off as "obvious regression" untill he does step up.

Call it spin or whatever, but if I was coaching a bigger, stronger, fitter man to fight Gomez - then I would have adopted the tactics to push him back.

Riddick Blowe - Everything he landed? Thats why some 15 seconds after the body shot that "doubled him over" Gomez was being pummelled to the ropes. Maybe Gomez couldn't land much cause Khan was blocking his shot.

Gomez punches had lost their snap, it was one way traffic from then on.

I hate to say I told you so. But I told you so!

Proof in this thread that you clowns know nothing about boxing.

Proof in this thread that you clowns know nothing about boxing.

Can't agree more.

Who gives a fcuk? Im around boxing for the enjoyment not the career, so if I get things wrong, a bunch of alpha-numeric super-egos isnt going to bother me too much. Its a bit worrying how much spite you lads seem to have developed over the course of a morning. Put down the DG posts, they are not a good guide to netiquette.

sorry about my stupid comments guys, I'm always an arsehole when things like this happen. I was just excited about winning £1600 and the end of Khan and FW's cheating regime.

its all good

With me, I suppose it's all the money Khan made. From the mugs who thought he was something special. When there's other brilliant boxers out there who struggle.

yeah. I have to admit the debate in this thread really frustrated me, with people thinking that 'with adjustments' and 'time' Khan could be something, and even some people thinking he could beat seasoned world class fighters when there was never any evidence to suggest he could.

People continually glossing over that glass chin and no defence was kind of baffling, IMO.

Every time I read posts like this, I am amazed at how people jump to conclusions and make judgements on people they have never met.

If you don't work in the boxing industry and are not around gyms and fighters, how can you possibly claim to know what someone like Powell is and isn't good at? Or that he spreads himself too thinly....

I can imagine there is so much going on behind the scenes. So many people involved on so many different levels - matchmakers, trainers, business managers, advisors, lawyers, consultants, right hand men....... people you will hardly have heard of, influencing so many things and people.

Making a judgement on people like this is like poking your finger in the air. Making a call on fighters is a little easier - you to get to see them perform when they have to. It's a different ball game for other people.

I guess you can make some judgement on trainers as you get to hear their corner work, but even then that is about 20% maximum of what they do. Whilst a trainer/cornerman can sometimes turn a fight - it is rare. Most of the work is done in the gym and the way the fighter performs largely pre-determined.

Maelstrom wrote:Every time I read posts like this, I am amazed at how people jump to conclusions and make judgements on people they have never met.

If you don't work in the boxing industry and are not around gyms and fighters, how can you possibly claim to know what someone like Powell is and isn't good at? Or that he spreads himself too thinly....

I can imagine there is so much going on behind the scenes. So many people involved on so many different levels - matchmakers, trainers, business managers, advisors, lawyers, consultants, right hand men....... people you will hardly have heard of, influencing so many things and people.

Making a judgement on people like this is like poking your finger in the air. Making a call on fighters is a little easier - you to get to see them perform when they have to. It's a different ball game for other people.

I guess you can make some judgement on trainers as you get to hear their corner work, but even then that is about 20% maximum of what they do. Whilst a trainer/cornerman can sometimes turn a fight - it is rare. Most of the work is done in the gym and the way the fighter performs largely pre-determined.

If thats TerryD you are commenting on, then he is very well connected in the game.

MatthewS wrote:

Maelstrom wrote:Every time I read posts like this, I am amazed at how people jump to conclusions and make judgements on people they have never met.

If you don't work in the boxing industry and are not around gyms and fighters, how can you possibly claim to know what someone like Powell is and isn't good at? Or that he spreads himself too thinly....

I can imagine there is so much going on behind the scenes. So many people involved on so many different levels - matchmakers, trainers, business managers, advisors, lawyers, consultants, right hand men....... people you will hardly have heard of, influencing so many things and people.

Making a judgement on people like this is like poking your finger in the air. Making a call on fighters is a little easier - you to get to see them perform when they have to. It's a different ball game for other people.

I guess you can make some judgement on trainers as you get to hear their corner work, but even then that is about 20% maximum of what they do. Whilst a trainer/cornerman can sometimes turn a fight - it is rare. Most of the work is done in the gym and the way the fighter performs largely pre-determined.

If thats TerryD you are commenting on, then he is very well connected in the game.

If you have never met Dean Powell, you are not well connected in the game.

End of.

You may be a journalist, know a few people and get their side of the story, but that isn't well connected.

Powell has been sucessful for years and worked with everybody. If you were truly in the sport, you wouldn't have been able to miss him!

take it up with terry then

MatthewS wrote:Who gives a fcuk? Im around boxing for the enjoyment not the career, so if I get things wrong, a bunch of alpha-numeric super-egos isnt going to bother me too much. Its a bit worrying how much spite you lads seem to have developed over the course of a morning. DG is KING

No, game over. Euro level at best.