BoxRec

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

teddy007 wrote:I havent got 1 single qualification but have lied on my cv saying stuff like i have 10 gcse's 3 alevels and a degree in sport science. I had the bottle to go through with it and now have a top job in recruitment.

Recruitment?

Definitely one of the posts of the year, this!

Nowt wrong with recruitment. One of my mates is a headhunter, and he just paid of his £750,000 mortgate in 2 years! However, he got a first in English at Uni and is an exceptionally bright lad. I did English, and it's bloody hard to get a first believe you me.

Thing is, any decent firm will check your CV thoroughly, so I doubt that it's possible to get a 'top job' in recruitment by lying through your teeth.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

teddy007 wrote:

Wax On wrote:I'm not saying I agree with telling porkies on your CV, but why would Ted be worried about them doing checks now. It's a case of buyer beware, and if they didn't bother doing checks in the 1st place when he was an unknown quantity then why would they now!!

If he's bringing c£300k worth of revenue into the business I'm pretty damn certain they wouldn't give two shits if he'd lied about his sex and his age to boot. My best consultant is always saying he got a 1st but I know he got a "desmond" at best!! Although this is tongue in cheek, the point is, if he's making money for me and I feel that other than a few opportunistic lies on his CV I can trust him, why should I be bothered. I'm employing him as a recruiter not a child nanny.

In response to StuJones, the biggest tip I can give any graduate is to do a placement year in a role relevant to what you want to do. This is an opportunity to get a Blue Chip name on your CV that would be 50 times harder once you're a grad that they have to commit to taking on permanently at full salary. Once you have some experience to talk about at interview and on your CV, you can't go wrong - unless you've got seriously bad social skills and are awful at interview. (Which you can practise anyway).

Totally aggree with the post. I'm not saying what i did was a good thing but i really had 2 options work in McDonalds or a factory or put my neck on the line and go for it.

You haven't answered any of my questions yet (either on here or by PM -at your instigation) but here's another:

How about option 3 - actually WORKING to get the qualifications you lied about?

As an educator, people like you disgust me. You seem to think it's admirable and talk about 'bottle' and 'taking a chance'.

It isn't. And don't anyone please give me 'that's the way the world works...everyone lies, etc.'. Doesn't make it right.

I know people who have given up years of their lives and put themselves in massive debt to honestly get the qualifications you pretended to have. More fool them, eh? Hmmm.

I think that all sounds a bit over the top to be honest Ian.

The world is full of academics with no social skills - I'm forever meeting people with 1sts, Masters or PHD's who have abysmal interview skills and no idea how to sell themselves!

Despite this, some companies (wrongly in my opinion) set certain minimum academic criteria that they expect applicants to possess to consider them. Ted was faced with the choice of an expensive and lengthy period of time gaining qualifications for a role that he doesn't need, or being a little creative on his CV. Who can blame him for the choice he made - we all have a living to make!

Interestingly enough I hope it didn't escape your attention that the winner of the apprentice this year was actually found to have told lies on his CV about the length of time he'd spent at University, and was forgiven this by Sir Alan Sugar, because ultimately he had performed best throughout the series and it generally accepted in the commercial world that people do tend to get a little creative with their CV's.

I understand you as an educator being frustrated by this, but "don't hate the player, hate the game"!! 8)

PS I enjoyed your Ice Cream Van Men article very much in Boxing Monthly.

I think we should start a fund on this site, along the lines of My Football club, where we all chip in £50 to get the lad some English lessons and a driving licence on the proviso we can promote him and get him up to Area / British title level

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I just wasn't ready for it. They tore me a new arsehole (and seemed to delight in it) and I'll never forget it. I just had no support or guidance and I just know how different it will be for my children.

It is very annoying though when they do take old boys because of connections and I applaud those people who manage to upset the gilded apple cart.

I hear exactly where you're coming from Ian - my situation wasn't the same in that I have to take self-responsibility for the fact I relied solely on natural ability and didn't study properly at the time, but there's no doubt we're representative of others in the state school system who aren't encouraged to strive for the heights and certainly aren't groomed for them. Even at Warwick those who'd come from public school backgrounds exuded a far greater degree of self-confidence and self-belief that came from a system whereby they were 'groomed' to believe that anything is attainable.
I went through a stage of being an 'inverse snob' and having a real chip on my shoulder about those from public school but I've since realised this is just as bad a prejudice as those I encountered who looked down on me at uni (the broad Somerset accent didn't help!). The failing lies in the state school system and many of the individuals who populate it. I have to say that in terms of my personal experience the standard of teaching was absolutely shocking and I didn't meet a single teacher who either inspired or encouraged me. It really bugs me still that teachers operate a 'closed shop' and protect their own, even when that individual is absolutely shocking at the job and simply shouldn't be in it. In fact, I don't know a single teacher who's been sacked or encouraged to move on through failure to perform...

Teddy I am a bit puzzled. To get a top job, you not only need an impressive CV you need good references as well and a fair amount of relevant experiance. So you faked your CV and managed to get away with bullshitting your way through an interview. Thats quite amazing. Not even a phone call to a previous employer never mind checking the qualifications you claimed to have had. If I employed a cleaner, I still wanted references which I checked out, never mind the secretaries I employed. I left school in 1960 with nothing, quite commonplace back then, but for the next 10 years I worked bloody hard to get my qualifications. Why couldnt you have done something similar? Anyway it beats me how you manage mix in a world with clever people without the training qualifications and experiance you admit you didnt have. I dont want to be rude to you but if you bullshitted your employer, could it be you are doing the same with us. Maybe you do recruit pickers, storekeepers and warehouse staff after all. My mother used to say "be sure your sins will find you out". I am not impressed with the people who seem to support your philsophy.

Tom, Ian

Sounds like you both had disillusioning experiences re: Oxbridge, particularly you Ian. Anyone who takes delight in mocking a university interviewee in clearly a knob.

In contrast, the experience I had with the academics at Cambridge was uniformally positive. At my interview, I was terrified that they would make me look like an idiot, but they couldn't have made me more at ease and given me a chance to shine. After I graduated, over drinks with the Master of the college when there was a debate about whether there should be more of a positive discrimination in favour of state school candidates, I asked his views and he said they simply looked for well rounded individuals who would be good to teach and add something to the college during their 3 years there - if that meant dropping an offer grade or two to a candidate from a less favourable background, they were happy to so do.

I'm not sure which of our experiences is representative and which is the exception. I hope mine is the former and the problems you had, the latter. Sadly I suspect I'm wrong.

teddy007 wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:Teddy I am a bit puzzled. To get a top job, you not only need an impressive CV you need good references as well and a fair amount of relevant experiance. So you faked your CV and managed to get away with bullshitting your way through an interview. Thats quite amazing. Not even a phone call to a previous employer never mind checking the qualifications you claimed to have had. If I employed a cleaner, I still wanted references which I checked out, never mind the secretaries I employed. I left school in 1960 with nothing, quite commonplace back then, but for the next 10 years I worked bloody hard to get my qualifications. Why couldnt you have done something similar? Anyway it beats me how you manage mix in a world with clever people without the training qualifications and experiance you admit you didnt have. I dont want to be rude to you but if you bullshitted your employer, could it be you are doing the same with us. Maybe you do recruit pickers, storekeepers and warehouse staff after all. My mother used to say "be sure your sins will find you out". I am not impressed with the people who seem to support your philsophy.

When i started in recruitment it was as a trainee, which was stated you needded a degree to apply. I worked f*cking hard to get where i am and if people dont like it tough. I recruit bsc, msc, phd level engineers in electronics and software engineering end of and im the best at it.

Good on you Teddy, nice one mate

I mustered a paltry five GCSEs. Was a tough time, lost all four of my grandparents in the same year and I was just a shell of myself for a while.

Got back into it and achieved three A levels, then a BA (Hons) in English and History...

Worked hard since graduating in 1999 and moved up the ladder in regional news. Now I'm news editing three papers along the coast.

I was always somewhere in the middle at school, more your B and C than A and A*.....

Interesting thread this, despite being way OT!

WildWaylon wrote:Teddy I am a bit puzzled. To get a top job, you not only need an impressive CV you need good references as well and a fair amount of relevant experiance. So you faked your CV and managed to get away with bullshitting your way through an interview. Thats quite amazing. Not even a phone call to a previous employer never mind checking the qualifications you claimed to have had. If I employed a cleaner, I still wanted references which I checked out, never mind the secretaries I employed. I left school in 1960 with nothing, quite commonplace back then, but for the next 10 years I worked bloody hard to get my qualifications. Why couldnt you have done something similar? Anyway it beats me how you manage mix in a world with clever people without the training qualifications and experiance you admit you didnt have. I dont want to be rude to you but if you bullshitted your employer, could it be you are doing the same with us. Maybe you do recruit pickers, storekeepers and warehouse staff after all. My mother used to say "be sure your sins will find you out". I am not impressed with the people who seem to support your philsophy.

Exactly Waylon - most people on here just don't seem to get it.

Teddy, I think its a bit unfair to describe it as "old git mentality".

Those posters commending you for your cunning obviously wouldn't think the same if you had done the same to become their doctor or dentist.

Teddy

That wasn't quite my point, I was simply illustrating that people like Ian find any massaging of a CV to be repugnant whereas those who commend you would clearly draw the line somewhere.

teddy007 wrote:

Loynesy wrote:Teddy, I think its a bit unfair to describe it as "old git mentality".

Those posters commending you for your cunning obviously wouldn't think the same if you had done the same to become their doctor or dentist.

You couldn't possibly of done that to become a doctor or dentist.

Let's not get daft about it. He does a sales role which involves good communications skills, not open heart surgery.

I find it curious that the guys on here who seem to object most to Ted's CV doctoring are those who feel they were cheated by the system when they didn't get into Oxbridge or wherever else. Get over it fellas it's not Ted's fault. Who wants to go to Uni with Farquar and Jeeves anyway - I hope you can look back and see that going to a more grounded establishment has made you what you are today (and I don't mean the moaning bastards part!)

I think a big problem is that whereas a state school can prepare you academically for the challenge, they don't necessarily provide you with the coaching for interviews, networking skills and breadth of curriculum that an interviewer would look for at one of these top universities. Although that's unfair on the state school candidates, you can't really blame the universities themselves for not taking on wet behind the ears state school kids who have no idea how to converse with a professer from the chattering classes.

Conversley, despite his poor qualifications Ted was able to perform at his interview, so fair play to him

I like Teddy, he amuses me, but that is a fornicating liberty and I can see why Ian is teed off.

On a personal note I was never the most academic but worked hard with what I had and am proud of what I've achieved. Very impressed with some of the guys on here, well done Loynesy especially.

PSI was nowhere near Oxbridge! Huddersfield did me just fine.......

Teddy: it has ignited an interesting debate. I don't personally agree with what you did but have enjoyed reading people's views on it.

teddy007 wrote:

Loynesy wrote:Teddy, I think its a bit unfair to describe it as "old git mentality".

Those posters commending you for your cunning obviously wouldn't think the same if you had done the same to become their doctor or dentist.

You couldn't possibly of done that to become a doctor or dentist.

Loynesy is simply using an analogy, but we did however have a man locally claiming to be a doctor who raped mentally ill women. He was a hospital worker with access to patient records but that is obviously an extreme case of a man making false claims about himself. I may not like what you did but I certainly dont hate you. How could I possibly hate someone I have never met. I cant say I like the "old git" thing I am actually very supportive of young people who work hard to make something of themselves. Would you describe your father in such a way if he tried to advise you or critisised something you did? There is nothing wrong with being proud of what you have honestly achieved but bragging about cheating to get there is another matter.
Are the people who support your views happy about athletes breaking records or winning medals by taking performance enhancing drugs because cheating is cheating no matter what you do to gain advantage. Anyway enough said, we can go on and on.

Well I don't mind a bit of a "chancer" and all power for you for being good at your job (although I think modesty is a nice characteristic in a person). However, I don't understand how you don't see it as a liberty.

If I thought I could have got as good a paid job as what you claim based on blagging - then of course I would have loved to have chucked away the text books, and f*cked about in school and had a great time. But no, I was told without an education a good job isn't really achievable and so are most people.

So while I am not saying what you done is like the crime of the century, and all power for you to being good at the job - I think the fact you don't see it as a liberty and can't understand why some people are peeved is a bit short sighted. Its called having your cake and eating it.

I'm only going through my experience, like some here - I am a workhorse as opposed to naturally gifted, but I was envious of the "school idiot" having a whale of a time arriving up drunk, going out instead of doing homework... but I thought "I'll get the last laugh" - at the moment, although I've had one or two really nicely paid jobs - I just on the unemployed list, and whereas the "friends" I knew who were the idiots now work in a factory - its seems like you had the fun in school and got a good job.

Yes, I am sure you are excellent at your job, and top man for having the confidence for going for it... but it also took a hell of a lot of luck - something that my academic qualification haven't taken. If you can't see why people are peeved then as I said very short sighted... call it jelousy or whatever.

I left school with 4 GCSE's, attempted further education but it wasn't for me.

After 13 years of full time work (not 1 sick day I might add, sad git) I'm now an account manager for a business services company. Not the greatest job in the world sure but I have no regrets.

Kilburn wrote:I left school with 4 GCSE's, attempted further education but it wasn't for me.

After 13 years of full time work (not 1 sick day I might add, sad git) I'm now an account manager for a business services company. Not the greatest job in the world sure but I have no regrets.

Hey thats sounds impressive..... thats probably the route I should have taken... I assume you were not an account manager to begin with. Got a lot of respect for people who have worked their way to the top that way also.

Just a question for Teddy... you mentioned you started as a trainee - so to get the job you are now - did you continue the blag... or just rely on your performance as a trainee.

8 O' Levels
4 A' Levels
2:1 Degree in Theology
Post Grad in Marketing

still ended up working in a book shop, after deciding not to become a priest, and rose through the ranks to run a small publishing company

Left a year ago and my first book is out in April next year based on travelling around the world to "go everywhere, eat everythng"

My qualifications have nothing to do with what i do now, but I would not have got to each stage of my career without an decent if unspectacular education.


Slapsie

Kilburn wrote:I left school with 4 GCSE's, attempted further education but it wasn't for me.

After 13 years of full time work (not 1 sick day I might add, sad git) I'm now an account manager for a business services company. Not the greatest job in the world sure but I have no regrets.

Fair play mate you obviously worked hard to get the job you now have. I did accounts as part of my HND, not worth the paper its written on now. Today everything is done on computers but back then all account information was held on cards and recorded on ledgers. I witnessed the beginning of automation in accounts with punch cards and EDP (electo data processing). Interesting days.

Slapsie Maxie wrote:8 O' Levels
4 A' Levels
2:1 Degree in Theology
Post Grad in Marketing

still ended up working in a book shop, after deciding not to become a priest, and rose through the ranks to run a small publishing company

Left a year ago and my first book is out in April next year based on travelling around the world to "go everywhere, eat everythng"

My qualifications have nothing to do with what i do now, but I would not have got to each stage of my career without an decent if unspectacular education.


Slapsie

Post a remindee when it's out Slapsie, I wouldn't mind having a read. I would have loved to have written a book about my travelling experiences, but when it came to it I decided I was neither talented enough or could remember half of it due to being lashed most of the way round the world.

When you say eat EVERYTHING - do you mean in terms of being greedy / a food lover or eating what ever was on offer - say cockroaches / maggots in Thailand. I ate one of those Witchety grubs on a tour of the bush in OZ once, for no better reason than the tour guide asked me too and I thought it might impress the fit international bunch of ladies in our group.

Unfortunatley seeing me with yellow slime running down my chin when it popped in my mouth and wretching did little for my appeal to the opposite sex or my appetite to eat further insects.

stujones wrote:I assume you were not an account manager to begin with.

No I've definitely had to graft my way along in this field through my 20's to get somewhere. It's not a career path I'd advise anyone to take but it was right enough for me. In a year or so when I'm ready for the next step up I strongly doubt that I'll lose out to someone else on the basis that they went through further education and I did not.

teddy007 wrote:

Loynesy wrote:Teddy, I think its a bit unfair to describe it as "old git mentality".

Those posters commending you for your cunning obviously wouldn't think the same if you had done the same to become their doctor or dentist.

You couldn't possibly of done that to become a doctor or dentist.

not true you hear of this all the time....especially when folk have come from abroad and worked in medicine perhaps as a nurse or similar then exaggerate their status, due to the fact they may have worked at hosptial x it seems to check out and they practice under false pretences.

Wax On wrote: I ate one of those Witchety grubs on a tour of the bush in OZ once, for no better reason than the tour guide asked me too and I thought it might impress the fit international bunch of ladies in our group.

Unfortunatley seeing me with yellow slime running down my chin when it popped in my mouth and wretching did little for my appeal to the opposite sex or my appetite to eat further insects.

I'm prone to the odd 'smooth' moment