BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This fight summed up everything for me about boxing that sucks.

An over the hill, clearly faded former legend, who at nearly 40 is completely delusional and thinks he can turn the clock back, against another future hall of famer who is still near his prime.

Jones is shot to pieces, he can't operate without the legs he used throughout his career to take him out of danger. At 39 he is way way past his best, it's not just the age, but the fact that his fighting style required him to operate on a rarified physical level that he no longer can attain.

Hopkins, although several years older, never had those astonishing physical gifts, and therefore didn't miss what he never really had.

There was nothing edifying about the spectacle whatsoever, this was just a massive ego jerkoff for Calzaghe, beating a 'future hall of famer' who by his own admission in an interview some years ago, would have kicked his butt. It was also another fat pay cheque of course, but I don't see why the paying public should be bullshitted to massage Joe's ego and enrich his pocket.

I don't see Mark Lawrenson pretending that a 5-0 drubbing of some minor European Team by Man united in the champions league, is a career defining moment for alex ferguson, but yet we have to listen to Dempsey, Buncey, Barry, uncle Tom Cobbley and all spewing utter bollocks about how this fight proves this that and the other, when all of them know that Roy Jones is a shell of the fighter he was 5 years ago.

All this fight proved was that boxing can be a load of right old shit sometimes.

Calzaghe is one of our finest fighter, but he's had too many gimmes; and if this is the quality of opponent we are going to see, then the sooner he ffffs off and retires, the better.

Said in fine Fashion.

Jones clearly appeared to ease off to spare Roy's blushes.

sg1985 wrote:

Terry D wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This fight summed up everything for me about boxing that sucks.

An over the hill, clearly faded former legend, who at nearly 40 is completely delusional and thinks he can turn the clock back, against another future hall of famer who is still near his prime.

Jones is shot to pieces, he can't operate without the legs he used throughout his career to take him out of danger. At 39 he is way way past his best, it's not just the age, but the fact that his fighting style required him to operate on a rarified physical level that he no longer can attain.

Hopkins, although several years older, never had those astonishing physical gifts, and therefore didn't miss what he never really had.

There was nothing edifying about the spectacle whatsoever, this was just a massive ego jerkoff for Calzaghe, beating a 'future hall of famer' who by his own admission in an interview some years ago, would have kicked his butt. It was also another fat pay cheque of course, but I don't see why the paying public should be bullshitted to massage Joe's ego and enrich his pocket.

I don't see Mark Lawrenson pretending that a 5-0 drubbing of some minor European Team by Man united in the champions league, is a career defining moment for alex ferguson, but yet we have to listen to Dempsey, Buncey, Barry, uncle Tom Cobbley and all spewing utter bollocks about how this fight proves this that and the other, when all of them know that Roy Jones is a shell of the fighter he was 5 years ago.

All this fight proved was that boxing can be a load of right old shit sometimes.

Calzaghe is one of our finest fighter, but he's had too many gimmes; and if this is the quality of opponent we are going to see, then the sooner he ffffs off and retires, the better.

Never mind James, we have the middleweight 'Prizefighter' to look forward to, why put a title fight on your British PPV leg when you can get all the undercard fights, whack them into a new format, and get Sky to tell us how awesome it all is.

I actually see where KG is coming from. Joe-Jones was a fight that will grab the punters. A card stacked with Wlad-Holyfield, Vitali-Tyson (if he could do a Jones and get a win or two) and Ali-Frazier IV makes more sense than Calzaghe-Dawson.

All that said Calzaghe can now retire and he has been the master competitor. His will to win has stood head-and-shoulders above everything, just a pity that he took these tougher fights later in his career, if he had taken them earlier I daresay he would have found a way to win.

Quibbles over his record aside there were times when he could have slipped up, even if it was due to drift and not the man in the other corner, but he never did, always coming up trumps when it mattered most.

you talk like he had a choice, he tried to fight jones jr and hopkins 6 years ago. hopkins agreed a price and the next day decided he wanted double the amount.

So that then makes it ok to fight a totally washed up version of Jones does it? Perhaps Vitali Klitchsko should call out Ali, after all, he never got to fight him in his prime, but better late than never eh?

leforge wrote:Dawson will beat joe easily possibly stop him.

Wow, you really are a great boxing pundit, taking the history of the fighter, previous examples of his skill and grit and coming upwith a totally correct and unarguable point like that . . .

Idiot.

sg1985 wrote:

Terry D wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This fight summed up everything for me about boxing that sucks.

An over the hill, clearly faded former legend, who at nearly 40 is completely delusional and thinks he can turn the clock back, against another future hall of famer who is still near his prime.

Jones is shot to pieces, he can't operate without the legs he used throughout his career to take him out of danger. At 39 he is way way past his best, it's not just the age, but the fact that his fighting style required him to operate on a rarified physical level that he no longer can attain.

Hopkins, although several years older, never had those astonishing physical gifts, and therefore didn't miss what he never really had.

There was nothing edifying about the spectacle whatsoever, this was just a massive ego jerkoff for Calzaghe, beating a 'future hall of famer' who by his own admission in an interview some years ago, would have kicked his butt. It was also another fat pay cheque of course, but I don't see why the paying public should be bullshitted to massage Joe's ego and enrich his pocket.

I don't see Mark Lawrenson pretending that a 5-0 drubbing of some minor European Team by Man united in the champions league, is a career defining moment for alex ferguson, but yet we have to listen to Dempsey, Buncey, Barry, uncle Tom Cobbley and all spewing utter bollocks about how this fight proves this that and the other, when all of them know that Roy Jones is a shell of the fighter he was 5 years ago.

All this fight proved was that boxing can be a load of right old shit sometimes.

Calzaghe is one of our finest fighter, but he's had too many gimmes; and if this is the quality of opponent we are going to see, then the sooner he ffffs off and retires, the better.

Never mind James, we have the middleweight 'Prizefighter' to look forward to, why put a title fight on your British PPV leg when you can get all the undercard fights, whack them into a new format, and get Sky to tell us how awesome it all is.

I actually see where KG is coming from. Joe-Jones was a fight that will grab the punters. A card stacked with Wlad-Holyfield, Vitali-Tyson (if he could do a Jones and get a win or two) and Ali-Frazier IV makes more sense than Calzaghe-Dawson.

All that said Calzaghe can now retire and he has been the master competitor. His will to win has stood head-and-shoulders above everything, just a pity that he took these tougher fights later in his career, if he had taken them earlier I daresay he would have found a way to win.

Quibbles over his record aside there were times when he could have slipped up, even if it was due to drift and not the man in the other corner, but he never did, always coming up trumps when it mattered most.

you talk like he had a choice, he tried to fight jones jr and hopkins 6 years ago. hopkins agreed a price and the next day decided he wanted double the amount.

Come on, if Joe REALLY wanted to play with the big boys, he would've demanded it and Warren would've delivered it. Word title holders have a say in how their careers play out.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Terry D wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This fight summed up everything for me about boxing that sucks.

An over the hill, clearly faded former legend, who at nearly 40 is completely delusional and thinks he can turn the clock back, against another future hall of famer who is still near his prime.

Jones is shot to pieces, he can't operate without the legs he used throughout his career to take him out of danger. At 39 he is way way past his best, it's not just the age, but the fact that his fighting style required him to operate on a rarified physical level that he no longer can attain.

Hopkins, although several years older, never had those astonishing physical gifts, and therefore didn't miss what he never really had.

There was nothing edifying about the spectacle whatsoever, this was just a massive ego jerkoff for Calzaghe, beating a 'future hall of famer' who by his own admission in an interview some years ago, would have kicked his butt. It was also another fat pay cheque of course, but I don't see why the paying public should be bullshitted to massage Joe's ego and enrich his pocket.

I don't see Mark Lawrenson pretending that a 5-0 drubbing of some minor European Team by Man united in the champions league, is a career defining moment for alex ferguson, but yet we have to listen to Dempsey, Buncey, Barry, uncle Tom Cobbley and all spewing utter bollocks about how this fight proves this that and the other, when all of them know that Roy Jones is a shell of the fighter he was 5 years ago.

All this fight proved was that boxing can be a load of right old shit sometimes.

Calzaghe is one of our finest fighter, but he's had too many gimmes; and if this is the quality of opponent we are going to see, then the sooner he ffffs off and retires, the better.

Never mind James, we have the middleweight 'Prizefighter' to look forward to, why put a title fight on your British PPV leg when you can get all the undercard fights, whack them into a new format, and get Sky to tell us how awesome it all is.

I actually see where KG is coming from. Joe-Jones was a fight that will grab the punters. A card stacked with Wlad-Holyfield, Vitali-Tyson (if he could do a Jones and get a win or two) and Ali-Frazier IV makes more sense than Calzaghe-Dawson.

All that said Calzaghe can now retire and he has been the master competitor. His will to win has stood head-and-shoulders above everything, just a pity that he took these tougher fights later in his career, if he had taken them earlier I daresay he would have found a way to win.

Quibbles over his record aside there were times when he could have slipped up, even if it was due to drift and not the man in the other corner, but he never did, always coming up trumps when it mattered most.

you talk like he had a choice, he tried to fight jones jr and hopkins 6 years ago. hopkins agreed a price and the next day decided he wanted double the amount.

So that then makes it ok to fight a totally washed up version of Jones does it? Perhaps Vitali Klitchsko should call out Ali, after all, he never got to fight him in his prime, but better late than never eh?[/quote]

Well he is still calling out Lennox actually

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This fight summed up everything for me about boxing that sucks.

There was nothing edifying about the spectacle whatsoever, this was just a massive ego jerkoff for Calzaghe, beating a 'future hall of famer' who by his own admission in an interview some years ago, would have kicked his butt. It was also another fat pay cheque of course, but I don't see why the paying public should be bullshitted to massage Joe's ego and enrich his pocket.

I don't see Mark Lawrenson pretending that a 5-0 drubbing of some minor European Team by Man united in the champions league, is a career defining moment for alex ferguson, but yet we have to listen to Dempsey, Buncey, Barry, uncle Tom Cobbley and all spewing utter bollocks about how this fight proves this that and the other, when all of them know that Roy Jones is a shell of the fighter he was 5 years ago.

All this fight proved was that boxing can be a load of right old shit sometimes.

Calzaghe is one of our finest fighter, but he's had too many gimmes; and if this is the quality of opponent we are going to see, then the sooner he ffffs off and retires, the better.

Good post and I feel much the same.

Basically you have Guy A who wouldn't (or to put it lightly, didn't) go anywhere near Guy B when he was hot. Remember all the slagging of guys being afraid to forego fighting in Vegas casinos and MSG (spot the irony) in favour of an Ice Rink in Cardiff, or the classic 'I'm afraid of flying, I'm actually afraid of flying!'.

Once Guy B gets sparked twice, seems incapable of punching anything above 3's - and instead is reduced to single lunging shots; has greatly reduced mobility (which was his main defence); is content to absorb more half-blows (i.e. in a Calzaghe fight especially, 'scoring blows') in a round than in his first fifteen years in the sport; gets run close by clubfighters in obscure events (the 1 point card in the Hanshaw fight was far too close, but not outrageous) - is unable to force even an overweight inactive welterweight from pushing him back; seems content to go into journeyman mode if it means risking his chin to win (third Tarver fight); and appears gunshy when on the retreat... Suddenly we're Mr. Hands-down Hardman and can stick our smug ('I played the business better than you') smile up between his guard to his outclassed and gunshy head. It patronised the - genuine - boxing fan as much as the CV of his opponent.

I have a measure of respect for the philosophy Calzaghe signed up to about getting the turncoat punter with his unrealistic expectations to sing to HIS tune, but he really showed that beneath the fumbly media personality, ring winner-mentality there was somebody not at all confident in himself at heart. I think the majority of people who read that will think it's bonkers and the opposite of the truth - I'd ask them to leave it. In fact, to counter any thoughts that this criticism is coming from a Calzaghe 'hater', here's something with real basis the fanboys can use in future knee-jerk reactions: Montell Griffin showed eleven years ago that highly concentrated lateral movement and a sharp fast jab could perplex Roy (his style). There is nothing to say a highly focussed Joe who pushes Roy back with that jab, then follows up with his 3-4-5 punch flurries, then clinches, repeat., could not cause a prime Roy havoc. Obviously Roy had that big punch - especially a lead right followed by left hook (that did Southpaw Reggie Johnson), and also would regularly punch in 6-7 punch combination from odd angles back then, but it's not beyond the realms of understanding that Joe, had he taken the risk, could have won the fight.

Hanshaw's not a club fighter. He would have had a career like Pavlik and Taylor most likely. However, while he was developing, he took about 2 years off due to personal tragedy. These 2 years were obviously crucial to his growth as a fighter. He was given head starts like the ShoBox tournament (a draw in the final with Mendy) and the Jones fight (losing on points). He was a potential world champion middleweight/super middleweight, but it just hasn't worked out for him.

Forgotten_Warrior wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This fight summed up everything for me about boxing that sucks.

There was nothing edifying about the spectacle whatsoever, this was just a massive ego jerkoff for Calzaghe, beating a 'future hall of famer' who by his own admission in an interview some years ago, would have kicked his butt. It was also another fat pay cheque of course, but I don't see why the paying public should be bullshitted to massage Joe's ego and enrich his pocket.

I don't see Mark Lawrenson pretending that a 5-0 drubbing of some minor European Team by Man united in the champions league, is a career defining moment for alex ferguson, but yet we have to listen to Dempsey, Buncey, Barry, uncle Tom Cobbley and all spewing utter bollocks about how this fight proves this that and the other, when all of them know that Roy Jones is a shell of the fighter he was 5 years ago.

All this fight proved was that boxing can be a load of right old shit sometimes.

Calzaghe is one of our finest fighter, but he's had too many gimmes; and if this is the quality of opponent we are going to see, then the sooner he ffffs off and retires, the better.

Good post and I feel much the same.

Basically you have Guy A who wouldn't (or to put it lightly, didn't) go anywhere near Guy B when he was hot. Remember all the slagging of guys being afraid to forego fighting in Vegas casinos and MSG (spot the irony) in favour of an Ice Rink in Cardiff, or the classic 'I'm afraid of flying, I'm actually afraid of flying!'.

Once Guy B gets sparked twice, seems incapable of punching anything above 3's - and instead is reduced to single lunging shots; has greatly reduced mobility (which was his main defence); is content to absorb more half-blows (i.e. in a Calzaghe fight especially, 'scoring blows') in a round than in his first fifteen years in the sport; gets run close by clubfighters in obscure events (the 1 point card in the Hanshaw fight was far too close, but not outrageous) - is unable to force even an overweight inactive welterweight from pushing him back; seems content to go into journeyman mode if it means risking his chin to win (third Tarver fight); and appears gunshy when on the retreat... Suddenly we're Mr. Hands-down Hardman and can stick our smug ('I played the business better than you') smile up between his guard to his outclassed and gunshy head. It patronised the - genuine - boxing fan as much as the CV of his opponent.

I have a measure of respect for the philosophy Calzaghe signed up to about getting the turncoat punter with his unrealistic expectations to sing to HIS tune, but he really showed that beneath the fumbly media personality, ring winner-mentality there was somebody not at all confident in himself at heart. I think the majority of people who read that will think it's bonkers and the opposite of the truth - I'd ask them to leave it. In fact, to counter any thoughts that this criticism is coming from a Calzaghe 'hater', here's something with real basis the fanboys can use in future knee-jerk reactions: Montell Griffin showed eleven years ago that highly concentrated lateral movement and a sharp fast jab could perplex Roy (his style). There is nothing to say a highly focussed Joe who pushes Roy back with that jab, then follows up with his 3-4-5 punch flurries, then clinches, repeat., could not cause a prime Roy havoc. Obviously Roy had that big punch - especially a lead right followed by left hook (that did Southpaw Reggie Johnson), and also would regularly punch in 6-7 punch combination from odd angles back then, but it's not beyond the realms of understanding that Joe, had he taken the risk, could have won the fight.

Even by his own admission, Calzaghe lacks a bit of confidence. He stated clearly that he wanted to pull out of both the Kessler and Lacy fights, and I suspect the same reasons were behind him twice pulling out against Johnson.

That's fine, if that is his persona, then he cannot help that, but I find it galling to then take on Jones after clearly stating that he is shot in your own book - how is that justifiable?

Maybe Joe could have beaten Roy, maybe not, but he didn't make any serious attempt to get in the ring with him, until he'd been knocked out twice, outpointed in an awful rematch with Tarver, and was clearly there for the taking.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Jones clearly appeared to ease off to spare Roy's blushes.

That's the Press line today. They've mostly interpreted what Calzaghe said - that he didn't want to chance getting caught - as a generous comment to save Roy's pride. What I saw was a man easing off when he knew it was in the bag; nothing much to do with fighting altruism.

That paraphrased quote reads differently to me. It says: 'He was still dangerous, honest!' Those with driving-legal eyes could see that Jones was struggling to find the shadow of his former self in the dark.

Calzaghe at his peak was brilliant, but his career and conduct will always leave me a bit cold. Ray Robinson lost quite a few; ditto Ali. People remember spectacles, not stats. It's my opinion that Joe's never confronted true fear in the ring. In this regard, I'd place a Floyd Patterson far ahead of him.

Good result and performance by JC. Bring on Frochy after he's beat Pascal

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This fight summed up everything for me about boxing that sucks.

An over the hill, clearly faded former legend, who at nearly 40 is completely delusional and thinks he can turn the clock back, against another future hall of famer who is still near his prime.

Jones is shot to pieces, he can't operate without the legs he used throughout his career to take him out of danger. At 39 he is way way past his best, it's not just the age, but the fact that his fighting style required him to operate on a rarified physical level that he no longer can attain.

Hopkins, although several years older, never had those astonishing physical gifts, and therefore didn't miss what he never really had.

There was nothing edifying about the spectacle whatsoever, this was just a massive ego jerkoff for Calzaghe, beating a 'future hall of famer' who by his own admission in an interview some years ago, would have kicked his butt. It was also another fat pay cheque of course, but I don't see why the paying public should be bullshitted to massage Joe's ego and enrich his pocket.

I don't see Mark Lawrenson pretending that a 5-0 drubbing of some minor European Team by Man united in the champions league, is a career defining moment for alex ferguson, but yet we have to listen to Dempsey, Buncey, Barry, uncle Tom Cobbley and all spewing utter bollocks about how this fight proves this that and the other, when all of them know that Roy Jones is a shell of the fighter he was 5 years ago.

All this fight proved was that boxing can be a load of right old shit sometimes.

Calzaghe is one of our finest fighter, but he's had too many gimmes; and if this is the quality of opponent we are going to see, then the sooner he ffffs off and retires, the better.

Once again, James McDonnell spouting truth.

Grilling Machine wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Jones clearly appeared to ease off to spare Roy's blushes.

That's the Press line today. They've mostly interpreted what Calzaghe said - that he didn't want to chance getting caught - as a generous comment to save Roy's pride. What I saw was a man easing off when he knew it was in the bag; nothing much to do with fighting altruism.

That paraphrased quote reads differently to me. It says: 'He was still dangerous, honest!' Those with driving-legal eyes could see that Jones was struggling to find the shadow of his former self in the dark.

Calzaghe at his peak was brilliant, but his career and conduct will always leave me a bit cold. Ray Robinson lost quite a few; ditto Ali. People remember spectacles, not stats. It's my opinion that Joe's never confronted true fear in the ring. In this regard, I'd place a Floyd Patterson far ahead of him.

I think that beautiful uppercut from Roy in the 6th helped ease JC off a little.

That uppercut was probably the only real glimpse of genius we saw from Roy in that fight. God bless him.

I remember quite a while ago reading reports that suggested Joe wasn't particularly confident and would have (pretty much) panic attacks in the lead up to fights etc...

You can see it in his eyes in some of his fights. Against Roy it looked more like he was scared of getting sparked out than of hurting his hands or whatever.

I know this probably all seems a bit overly critical, but just spouting observations. Still a great boxer.