BoxRec

raylawpc wrote: BTW, I think you meant to refer to Buffalo Bill and not Wild Bill Hickok. Wild Bill never had a Wild West Show and died in 1876 - a few years before Willard was born.

--- Very good, you are correct.

I get them mixed up since both served in a militia together in Kansas and engaged in many of the same interests. Hickok was the big one that was handy with his fists as well as gun. Cody was the entrepreneur. Both had a lot of showman in them.

Is Willard considerd by the forum experts here to be superior to
that of Valuev ?

I am curious to see if a 195lb Hopkins is able to beat Valuev...
as much of a tremendously hard challenge that is, let alone
for a much smaller, and aged men...PE's and talent with standing.

Robinson wrote:Is Willard considerd by the forum experts here to be superior to
that of Valuev ?

I am curious to see if a 195lb Hopkins is able to beat Valuev...
as much of a tremendously hard challenge that is, let alone
for a much smaller, and aged men...PE's and talent with standing.

I don't know if I'm a forum expert but yes I'd consider Jess superior to Valuev. Much bigger puncher, more coordinated. Both have good stamina for big men and good jabs, although Jess from the film looks to snap his jab more. Valuev isn't a bad fighter . . he's definetly the best fighter 7ft or taller who has ever lived, but he's never been a real champioship calibre fighter despite what the record books tell you.

Robinson wrote:Is Willard considerd by the forum experts here to be superior to
that of Valuev ?

I am curious to see if a 195lb Hopkins is able to beat Valuev...
as much of a tremendously hard challenge that is, let alone
for a much smaller, and aged men...PE's and talent with standing.

- Valuev is way too active for the plodding upright Willard over 12 rds. The Willard that beat Johnson was a bit rusty, but at his peak with a great game plan over 45 rds. Maybe that version of Willard could beat Niko.

There is no version of Mr. Popkins who'd have a prayer against either. His fanboys are sick trying to get the man hurt. There's a reason he runs to the ropes and covers up, He's done as an offensive threat. Lessee, turned down career purses against Joe and Roy that would increased his lifetime ring earnings 10x, 1-2 record as a LH, 2-0 at 170 against middleweights, and now he's heavyweight champ of the world, eh?

It's a twisted world out there.

BRR

Its a world where spectacles, however curious or morbid
brings in money.

I struggle to imagine how well Hopkins does against Valuev,
but I will tune in, because greatness is a rare thing and
seldom does some one see someone with so many odds against
them attempt something like that...as dangerous or as sick
as it is.

Robinson wrote: I struggle to imagine how well Hopkins does against Valuev,
but I will tune in, because greatness is a rare thing and
seldom does some one see someone with so many odds against
them attempt something like that...as dangerous or as sick
as it is.

- Maybe you didn't open the email. When Mr. Popkins was at his best, he turned down career paydays against Joe and Roy and had to pay Dibella to 2 million to get out of their contract.

It's great that he finally stepped up to go 1-1 against a pair of LH past their best, but I'm at a loss seeing anything close to the greatness you ascribe to him. He won't be stepping into the ring with Valuev unless Niko agrees to wear the cuffs again like he did against Mr. Field.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Robinson wrote: I struggle to imagine how well Hopkins does against Valuev,
but I will tune in, because greatness is a rare thing and
seldom does some one see someone with so many odds against
them attempt something like that...as dangerous or as sick
as it is.

He won't be stepping into the ring with Valuev unless Niko agrees to wear the cuffs again like he did against Mr. Field.

Whate an utter joke you are. So if Hopkins makes you look like a complete ass and wins the fight, the bout is 'fixed' . . .Robbie I know we often butt heads here but how you could take this festering wound seriously is beyond my comprehension.

Hopkins is a genius.
Not just a modern day great.
Bernard Hopkins is one of the few gods of pro boxing period.
He is incredible.


Bernard is larger than life and very few sports fans know it.

He is amazing.

dempseyfire wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Robinson wrote: I struggle to imagine how well Hopkins does against Valuev,
but I will tune in, because greatness is a rare thing and
seldom does some one see someone with so many odds against
them attempt something like that...as dangerous or as sick
as it is.

He won't be stepping into the ring with Valuev unless Niko agrees to wear the cuffs again like he did against Mr. Field.

Whate an utter joke you are. So if Hopkins makes you look like a complete ass and wins the fight, the bout is 'fixed' . . .Robbie I know we often butt heads here but how you could take this festering wound seriously is beyond my comprehension.

:) he makes good muffins

BRR, you really like acting like a tool don't you

dempseyfire wrote:
Whate an utter joke you are. So if Hopkins makes you look like a complete ass and wins the fight, the bout is 'fixed' . . .Robbie I know we often butt heads here but how you could take this festering wound seriously is beyond my comprehension.

- My sick friend, it is you and your's who have kept the unlicensed Mr. Field propped up all these years in spite of diminished reflexes and thick speech.

The poor devil simply can't box a lick anywhere close to fringe contender as Oquendo and Donald showed and can only fight a club fighter like Maddalone or another fossilized relic like Saverse with any hope of a genuine win.

None of the top fighters want to hit the old man. They stand terrified of public and legal repercussions if they should hurt him. It's not enough that he readily conceded defeat against Valuev, why they managed to pick him up and reprop him up so well that a week later he's hollering about being robbed and wanting a rematch.

I unfortunately had to live through the last few years of the Ali tragedy with little say so and now I mean to shout the warning from the rafters in the face of the same tragedy unfolding.

That poor Mr. Popkins could even be entertained as a heavyweight title contender by the likes of you is part and parcel of the tragedy of King's decade long WBA racket he runs.

Hopkins would turn Willard inside out like a pretzel. Easy decision, more likely a KO.

BRR

You have a true gift at seeing things from a unique perspective...for
better or worse.

Five pages on. Hopkins still isn't standing up to Willard's best punch. Oooh, unhurt by Felix Trinidad

I just can not imagine Willard beating him.

Nothing I have seen of Jess has convinced
me of this.

Willard was a 6-6, 230 pound man who started boxing at age 29. Hopkins easy. Willard wouldn't be able to hit him and Hopkins would out box Willard and hit him at will.

Yes but people were tougher then....

they ate better (.....) worked harder......
and because of their labour intensive life styles had
natural athleticism and fitness not seen today....

Willard wins here because of toughness and size...
and if he loses to a modern MW-LHW it tarnishes
Dempseys achievement, as great as it was...

the sad reality is though that Hopkins would have been
a good sized HW then. Not the biggest, but no one
would have called him small or thought of him under
weight.

Robinson wrote:I just can not imagine Willard beating him.

Nothing I have seen of Jess has convinced
me of this.

- Never been a big fan of Johnson, but fact is when properly motivated, he was the goods, and he was properly motivated against Jess.

Unfortunately for JJ it was over 45 rds. We've seen ungainly clips of Willard in a more active state against Moran who was a very active 200 lber who also went the distance against Johnson.

Sorry boys, there is zippity-doo-doo on Mr. Popkins record to support he could do more than eek a razor decision over 10-12 at the extreme scale of very best. There is no time in his life that he wanted to step up and challenge himself until Taylor ran him out of middle. Big deal, he beat a 40ish Tarver on his last legs, a severly weight drained old man having to drop some 50 lbs from his Hollywood debut.

Mr. Popkins has shown no class over any other LH, not even challenging himself against one of the weaker LH or cruiser champs. Jess beat the unbeatable, more than beat, he left him for dead. Had that been Mr. Popkins in there, I've no doubt Johnson would've prevailed. He was too active for the older Pops, and too big and strong for the younger pops. Under Jess rules, 160 against 240, Pop just makes a smaller grease spot on the canvas than did Johnson.

I don't care how many vitamins Pop takes to make 195 either.

Willard and any giant makes a big target for disdain by lessors who have inbred prejudice against a guy that size. Giants are born into heeldom and if they are ever less than mythic in strength and gentle in nature, they are degraded even further. They scare tiny folk. It's only been since the advent of American football and basketball that they have gained some acceptance, and since Jess was neither, the prejudice surfaces.

The fact remains that Johnson's career was based on the wins, stumbles
and losses guys that were MW's or guys that would today cut down to
perhaps WW. 'Vitamins' aside.

Regards to giants...

In my experiences in the ring and in the gym, Id rather
face a giant of a man than an in shape, skilled guy a bit
lighter and smaller than me. Hard to adjust to things under
your shoulders with speed.

Can anyone really say that Willard possessed a skill set that would put him in the same universe as Hop? He has made a HOF career off of not taking punishment.

He broke in horses....

Robinson wrote:Regards to giants...

In my experiences in the ring and in the gym, Id rather
face a giant of a man than an in shape, skilled guy a bit
lighter and smaller than me. Hard to adjust to things under
your shoulders with speed.

What the fekk would BRR know about technique?

Unless it was related to giving a reach-around...

Robinson wrote:The fact remains that Johnson's career was based on the wins, stumbles
and losses guys that were MW's or guys that would today cut down to
perhaps WW. 'Vitamins' aside.

Now, hold on pard, Are you talking about Mr. Popkins or Johnson?

Johnson at least holds wins over legit prime heavies Sandy Ferguson, Fireman Flynn, Moran. Klondike Haines, and LH champ Gardiner. Plus he beat Burns and Ketchel, knocking iron chinned murderous P4P Ketchel out. Need I remind you Ketchell ranks much higher than Pops?

Mr. Popkins doesn't have any of Willard's or Johnson's comp on his resume. You send in a boy to do a man's job.

You compare some big slop you sparred with to Willard in a real fight? Look, Big Jess may have been limited, but he once he learned the game, he was formidable.

The fact remains the men you listed included. Hopkins would be
not considered small back then.

Here is a little factoid for you...

I coach some lads. One walks around at 187-190lbs. He is 6'3.
He cuts down to 170lbs in less than a week. He is not on the
gear and works a day job.

Another lad I know is 185lbs in good shape and makes 160ish lbs
come fight time. These are very part time in their fighting, they
all work jobs and live 'normal' jobs.,

cutting weight is a lot better under stood these days and its
actually attempted because the HW div isnt the only paying div.
Plus people have a decent diet and clean running water so as to
allow good and quick recovery.

In that era, clean running water was still a ways off to many a
households. I guess dysentry and diahorea are good ways of
making weight.

My point being is that men like Hopkins are not that small in a
historical context, just because they make good money fighting
at a lower weight does not mean that they would struggle at a
heavier one. Truth be known Hopkins debuted as a 'HW' in the
historical sense of the word.