BoxRec

How about a small tourney between all the guys previously mentioned in the thread?

Joe Savage vs Charles Bronson

Lenny McLean vs Bartley Gorman

Roy Shaw vs Lew Yates

Johnny Waldron vs Cliff Fields

Macale Merton vs Norman Buckland

Btw, considering the HUGE under ground fight scene with unlicensed boxing matches, especially in Britain, who is safe to say is the best of these unlicensed fighters? My vote, may very well go to Mark Potter, who knocked out Butterbean in one of these events, after his own license was stripped of him. To think, at one time, Potter was right up there with the best of the best in Britain, whose now brawling in events like these, is a shame.

Evidentially the new big star of the unlicensed boxing scene is 'Stormin' Norman Buckland, whose been declared "The New Guvnor", after knocking out some man in an unlicensed event. Personally, I think McLean would have killed this guy, as would Shaw and Gorman, but none the less.

- Nice pic, but has anyone figured that Ali was trying to get in touch with his Irish roots after rebelling against that heritage early in his life?

Could be Ali got his fighting spirit from greatgrandpappy Clay. The clip I pulled up on Gorman shows him singing ballads, talking about his heritage and career, and laying into a heavy bag bare fisted. Looked to have some dig for an sentimental old man on his last legs.

This post is more towards Robinson, rather than yourself, but I found an article on Gorman, and I was mistaken. Ali and Gorman never sparred one another, but merely shadow boxed. Ali was impressed, however, he said to Gorman "I was champion of the world three times", to which Gorman said "But I am the Lord of the Lanes." The two men had respect for one another, which I think gives a magnitude of perspective on this subject of whether bare knuckle fighters are athletes or not, true boxers or not. If Ali could respect Gorman for being the unofficial bare knuckle champion of the world, I dont see why no one else cant.

HomicideHenry wrote:How about a small tourney between all the guys previously mentioned in the thread? .

- I'd pick 16 yr old 150 lb Jack Dempsey over the lot of them in a knucks fight.

I'd also pick the Blood Green that Tyson almost killed in the street over any of them.

Greatest knucks brawl of all would be Greb/Walker after their title dustup. Langford/Johnson might've been in the running but Johnson wouldn't rise to Langford's bait.

A shout for Two Ton Tony Galento who used to knuck it out on the street. No telling how many arguments settled by Tony's left hook. Gives me the shudders to think about that guy loose on the street.

I went to the library other day and had them order in Bartley Gorman's autobiography, as well as Lenny McLean's. I should have gotten 'On The Cobbles' as well. Anyone read that one? Is it any good?

on the cobbles is a good book, I read it last week, as I stated earlier,

There must be a shit load of gypsy communities in Ireland and Great Britain, you know it? Considering there's been at least 10-12 so-called champions in the last 20-30 years.

HomicideHenry wrote:There must be a shit load of gypsy communities in Ireland and Great Britain, you know it? Considering there's been at least 10-12 so-called champions in the last 20-30 years.

There are.

I remember once, when I had a girlfriend who came from Southampton (UK), telling her that when I was a kid I lived in a trailer park, and she asked me if I was a gypsy. I figured maybe in UK the word for trailer trash was gypsy. She said when she was younger she ran with gypsies in the area. I didnt know there was actually a huge population of actual gypsies in England, until I started following the careers of Gorman, McLean and others.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

^^^John Fury, father of Tyson Fury, was also a well known bare knuckle fighter. Judging by his record, he seems to be the best of the bunch I've mentioned so far. His father and grandfather were also pro boxers and bare knuckle fighters. John Fury didn't have a bad win/loss record, considering the only guys to beat him were like Henry Akinwande.

I'd think a fight between John Fury and Roy Shaw or Johnny Waldron or Cliff Fields, would have been interesting.

Btw, Robinson, you ever figured out how to get those bare knuckle fight(s) of yours from VHS to DVD to YouTube?

I still have my MMA fights to upload which are on DVD and divx
the bare knuckle bout i mentioned is on VHS. I have to convert
that to digital and then upload.

In time. I would rather upload first more rare boxing bouts, and
actual sanctioned bouts that I am proud of, and which were against
skilled athletes than a idiotic stab at machoism on my part as
a younger lad.

In good time good sir.

I have heard of John Fury in before, his name stands out obviously
for its coolness factor.
I do not recall where though, I think it was in an early-mid 1990s
pommie martial arts magazine.

Ill look for it..see if it is in their.
I think it was an 'combat' mag.

I'd love to see that article, if you have it still Robinson.

Like I said, least of the modern day guys, he seems to be the best of the punch, considering his record as a professional boxer as well. I may just have to search if any videos on him exist, other than the ones with his son Tyson Fury.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP9o_fplORo

Rufus, you ought to have a look at Wakefield's own Paul Sykes.

Like that bloke who calls himself Charles Bronson, he spent most of his peak years in prison but he did put togther a good string of victories which got him a shot at the British heavyweight title.

He was the scourge of bouncers in his area. Not sure if he fought on the unlicensed scene but they did keep trying to match him with the other names in the 80's.

There is a doco on him on Youtube. Very interesting guy.

Thanks for the heads up Collins

There's been a number of men, that fought more on the unlicensed scene than in bare knuckle prize fights, and ironically alot of them are in prisons. Only man inside a prison I knew of who made almost a career of it was James Scott, who fought Qawi I think inside the prison. Had he of beaten Qawi, he would have gotten a shot at the Cruiserweight title. His career was effectively over, though, once he lost to Qawi. I think the prison had too much riding on the fight.

Dokes is another one. I heard he engaged in sparring sessions while in prison, ended up busting some man up pretty bad, and ended up in solitary for a while.

I'll check on Sykes, though. His name does sound awfully familiar to me, but I cant quite place him either.

Shit Collins I know who he is now! He gave John L. Gardner quite a fight!

From what I gather of him so far, though, it don't seem that anything's "official" on his status in the illegal, underground, fights.

BTW...I'm watching this documentary on him, and I must say, WHAT AN ASSHOLE

HomicideHenry wrote:Shit Collins I know who he is now! He gave John L. Gardner quite a fight!

From what I gather of him so far, though, it don't seem that anything's "official" on his status in the illegal, underground, fights.

BTW...I'm watching this documentary on him, and I must say, WHAT AN ASSHOLE

I like him.

He makes me laugh with most of the things he says.

Not a good father-figure though, I'm afraid.

Incidently, at least one of his sons is in prison for murder; I think someone said recently the other one is in for the same crime now as well.

Oh, and Sykes is dead by the way.

Not a good father-figure though, I'm afraid.

That's why I said he was an ass hole the whole "piss off you're making me sick" bullshit and him telling one of his youngest to keep his hands out of his pocket was at least one of the most verbally abusive shit I've seen a father say to his own kids.

HomicideHenry wrote:Shit Collins I know who he is now! He gave John L. Gardner quite a fight!

From what I gather of him so far, though, it don't seem that anything's "official" on his status in the illegal, underground, fights.

BTW...I'm watching this documentary on him, and I must say, WHAT AN ASSHOLE

Exactly, when he came out of prison all "reformed" and scholar-like he proceeded to drink himself to death. And i'ts not like he had a bad childhood, he was just a bad seed. As a fighter he was ok but he folded whenever someone stood up to him. His lame-ass excuse for quitting against Gardner says it all.

Good old Sykes; a real character!

I shouldnt even bring him up but it crossed my mind that Kenny Foster, who tried getting into Stacy Goodson's boxing shows, is in a sense, an unlicensed fighter, considering he's somewhat an internet creation doing boxing matches in backyards, inside houses, etc.

I think he said his record was 12-1 or something to that nature. He knocked out Brian Strege in a backyard brawl in what could be called the 1st round, even though I think it was fight to the finish rules. Strege, if you recall, fought Dumas in his debut and almost defeated the former amatuer kickboxer.

If Foster could beat Strege with no problems, I imagine had he went into the TPS series, he would have easily dominated.

mercman wrote:In addition to his pro career, Paul Sykes represented England as an amateur boxer. He also had countless streetfights, bar-room brawls and tear-ups. He was scheduled to fight Lenny Maclean in an unlicensed fight some time in the early 1980s but this never happened. Sykes got locked up before it could go ahead. The man was a complete loose canon and an exploitative bully though. Don't have any illusions, Sykes could be witty but he was a nasty peice of work. He was a lethal cocktail - an unbalanced, unstable heavyweight boxer, powerlifter and heavy drinker. A bit like a 6'3'' 220lb version of Begbie from the film Trainspotting. One to avoid. And definitely not one to share a prison cell with.

I think had Lenny fought Sykes in the 1980's, it would have proved disasterous for the Guvnor. Lenny, imo, may have been the face of unlicensed boxing in Britain, but, had he fought Roy Shaw in his prime, he wouldnt have come out the winner in the series they had. Sykes, I would have loved to have seen face Johnny Waldron, Cliff Fields and John Fury though.

HomicideHenry wrote:

mercman wrote:In addition to his pro career, Paul Sykes represented England as an amateur boxer. He also had countless streetfights, bar-room brawls and tear-ups. He was scheduled to fight Lenny Maclean in an unlicensed fight some time in the early 1980s but this never happened. Sykes got locked up before it could go ahead. The man was a complete loose canon and an exploitative bully though. Don't have any illusions, Sykes could be witty but he was a nasty peice of work. He was a lethal cocktail - an unbalanced, unstable heavyweight boxer, powerlifter and heavy drinker. A bit like a 6'3'' 220lb version of Begbie from the film Trainspotting. One to avoid. And definitely not one to share a prison cell with.

I think had Lenny fought Sykes in the 1980's, it would have proved disasterous for the Guvnor. Lenny, imo, may have been the face of unlicensed boxing in Britain, but, had he fought Roy Shaw in his prime, he wouldnt have come out the winner in the series they had. Sykes, I would have loved to have seen face Johnny Waldron, Cliff Fields and John Fury though.

Sykes was an accomplished amatuer and a solid pro, Lenny was a barroom brawler. Sykes would have beaten Lenny like a drum.

HomicideHenry wrote:I shouldnt even bring him up but it crossed my mind that Kenny Foster, who tried getting into Stacy Goodson's boxing shows, is in a sense, an unlicensed fighter, considering he's somewhat an internet creation doing boxing matches in backyards, inside houses, etc.

I think he said his record was 12-1 or something to that nature. He knocked out Brian Strege in a backyard brawl in what could be called the 1st round, even though I think it was fight to the finish rules. Strege, if you recall, fought Dumas in his debut and almost defeated the former amatuer kickboxer.

If Foster could beat Strege with no problems, I imagine had he went into the TPS series, he would have easily dominated.

I'd pick a random guy off the street to beat Strege or any of these TPS clowns. You'd find more boxing in Tonya Harding.