BoxRec

it dont matter who khan faces the fact remains is the CHIN.
his defence will improve under roach. the chin is what brings him down. against limmond,gomez and not mension prescott. i do hope its Funeka or romovou that he faces next. lets see how he copes with them. he needs these type of fights if he wants to face the likes of Marquez or Diaz.

I don't know why the criticisms of Warren saying "we've got Barrera at the right time" - its Marco Antionio Barrera FFS, a sure fire hall of famer and all time great. Freddie Roach never got criticised for saying much the same things ahead of Pacquiao vs Oscar.... people were saying Freddie was wrong but never said before the fight "YEAH, I BET FREDDIE WOULDN'T HAVE RECOMMENDED OSCAR 3 YEARS AGO"... but because Frank says it... thats the statement he gets.

So what if Frank didn't think 19 year old Kahn could be a 33 year old Barrera, its Marco Antonio Barrera... not many 20+ fighters could have beaten him, infact probably only 3 fighters could have around the weight class.. and they held 3 of the top #5 P4P positions.

Katsidis is extremely limited, but he's cut out a decent profile for himself with good showings against a rather faded Casamayor and light-punching Juan Diaz, fresh from the bruising Campbell defeat.

He represents the type of fighter that someone as fast and sharp as Khan should be able to take apart. That's assuming he institutes the same kind of self control and focus we've seen post Prescott.

The risk of getting caught would be there, but if Khan's heading towards world level as fast as his last matchup would imply, then fighting someone like Katsidis would represent a good middle ground to maintain momentum in terms of risk taking that's outweighed by potential reward... before he finds himself in the mix with the real cream of the division. To my mind, Katsidis is a Gatti clone, the type of gutsy fighter who drowns when faced with world class speed, skill and power. If Diaz could burst a bubble, Katsidis wouldn't have gotten out of the first half of their fight.

There are easier options, I'm sure. Knowing Wazza's relationship with the WBO, I'm sure that if JMM was to vacate to light-welter, that some bogus mismatch could be arranged.

The point is that he is blatantly flaunting all of the cynical sides of boxing that true fans know about but armchair fans could do with not being exposed to, for the good of the sport.

FFS, this sport is in the shitter as it is, without Frank as good as revealing that his matchmaking is deliberately cynical. Armchair fan: 'Got him at the right time?' Does that mean he's saying he took the fight only because Barrera is past his best?'

Stu, are you one of those people who said that "This matchmaking is a stroke of genius!"?

Nope, I thought Barrera was going to win as I thought DLH was going to beat Pacquiao... and you know, I still don't know if it was a matchmaking genius (Barrera vs Khan) and I still don't know if Khan caught MAB at the right time.

Carbo wrote: Errr... that's his job, you know. If he was to throw Khan in with the people you would want, Khan would be justified in firing him for gross misconduct. Warren is Khan's manager, in effect, and his job is to make Khan the most money possible. Simple.

As a promoter, his job is intrinsicly linked to providing fans what they want on a consistent basis, which he did do, given the gate at the last Khan fight.

Of course, these two roles clash, which is why I favour a mandate which would ban promoters managing, and vice versa, but the point is this: as manger, Warren is there to maximise Khan's income. If he didn't do that, KHan would go to someone who would.

Bear in mind, that Khan has a career to think of. Putting him in against Marquez would be a little like putting you in charge of the fries: first you need to learn by washing the floors, mopping the toilet floors, and perhaps helping with the mcnuggets, and then you can be put in charge of the fries. Similarly, KHan, only on his 22nd fight, might need some rounding. Like Andre Berto. You can't throw them in with killers after ther 13th fight. You want to mature and develop these guys. You want to make them into boxers who have a better than even chance of actually winning the big fights.

Not really sure what you're driving at here considering I haven't made any suggestion of Khan being "in charge of the fries before mopping the floor." I agree that at his age, and in his 22nd fight that he has some development ahead of him, so when is it going to start?
For example, by his 22nd fight Floyd Mayweather had won and defended the WBC Super Feather title 5 times.
Oscar De La Hoya won his first World title at 11-0, by the time he was on his 22nd fight he'd won world titles in three weight divisions.
Closer to home, Naseem Hamed had won a world title and defended it twice by the time he was in his 22nd fight, plus he'd already won and defended the European title.

Khan is no Mayweather or De La Hoya, obviously, but he's had 21 starts and hasn't faced one genuine lightweight domestic fighter, hasn't faced one genuine European lightweight challenger, in fact the only genuine lightweight he's faced knocked him out in one minute. Now, call my cynical, but I think the Prescott devastation happened because Khan was put in charge of the damn Big Macs after spending his apprenticeship emptying the bins. How is he expected to develop as a boxer if he is never given a genuine challenge? But then you figure in the PPV angle. Yes, they got a good gate for the last fight, but that's because Barrera is a legend. People were intrigued by that fight. But what next? Pull Morales out of retirment to secure a PPV date? See if Ricardo Lopez has ballooned up since retiring and give him a run out? It's got to be a credible opponent to justify the PPV but it can't be anybody remotely dangerous. Sooner or later Khan will have to step up the calibre of his opponent because the public wont keep forking out money to watch mismatches, if he dropped this whole PPV crap and fought on ITV then maybe he could develop nicely against some good opposition. But obviously the money comes first and that will damage Khans progression as a fighter in my opinion.

DaveyH wrote:

Carbo wrote: Errr... that's his job, you know. If he was to throw Khan in with the people you would want, Khan would be justified in firing him for gross misconduct. Warren is Khan's manager, in effect, and his job is to make Khan the most money possible. Simple.

As a promoter, his job is intrinsicly linked to providing fans what they want on a consistent basis, which he did do, given the gate at the last Khan fight.

Of course, these two roles clash, which is why I favour a mandate which would ban promoters managing, and vice versa, but the point is this: as manger, Warren is there to maximise Khan's income. If he didn't do that, KHan would go to someone who would.

Bear in mind, that Khan has a career to think of. Putting him in against Marquez would be a little like putting you in charge of the fries: first you need to learn by washing the floors, mopping the toilet floors, and perhaps helping with the mcnuggets, and then you can be put in charge of the fries. Similarly, KHan, only on his 22nd fight, might need some rounding. Like Andre Berto. You can't throw them in with killers after ther 13th fight. You want to mature and develop these guys. You want to make them into boxers who have a better than even chance of actually winning the big fights.

Not really sure what you're driving at here considering I haven't made any suggestion of Khan being "in charge of the fries before mopping the floor." I agree that at his age, and in his 22nd fight that he has some development ahead of him, so when is it going to start?
For example, by his 22nd fight Floyd Mayweather had won and defended the WBC Super Feather title 5 times.
Oscar De La Hoya won his first World title at 11-0, by the time he was on his 22nd fight he'd won world titles in three weight divisions.
Closer to home, Naseem Hamed had won a world title and defended it twice by the time he was in his 22nd fight, plus he'd already won and defended the European title.

Khan is no Mayweather or De La Hoya, obviously, but he's had 21 starts and hasn't faced one genuine lightweight domestic fighter, hasn't faced one genuine European lightweight challenger, in fact the only genuine lightweight he's faced knocked him out in one minute. Now, call my cynical, but I think the Prescott devastation happened because Khan was put in charge of the damn Big Macs after spending his apprenticeship emptying the bins. How is he expected to develop as a boxer if he is never given a genuine challenge? But then you figure in the PPV angle. Yes, they got a good gate for the last fight, but that's because Barrera is a legend. People were intrigued by that fight. But what next? Pull Morales out of retirment to secure a PPV date? See if Ricardo Lopez has ballooned up since retiring and give him a run out? It's got to be a credible opponent to justify the PPV but it can't be anybody remotely dangerous. Sooner or later Khan will have to step up the calibre of his opponent because the public wont keep forking out money to watch mismatches, if he dropped this whole PPV crap and fought on ITV then maybe he could develop nicely against some good opposition. But obviously the money comes first and that will damage Khans progression as a fighter in my opinion.

.yep spot on .
i mean it his team that are greedy money grabbing gits. he goes with what his mangemnt tell him to do. until he lost against prescott.then he has the last say to what goes in his camp now. he has not fought a genuine LW .but PPV he will have to face a Diaz or Katidis .Even hatton stated that khan has gone to PPV too soon. This can also be the down fall of his career. money hungry. i htinks its his mangemnt are to blame for the whole PPVcoz warren cant afford to .loose khan. so he has to please the guy. other wise im sure khan would be happy to box ITV.

Obviously i don't know Warren and don't know the ins and outs . but it does seem that Khans managenment are behind it , Warren is'nt stupid he knows Khans his current cash cow and he knows they wil not make serious money unless its ppv , but ppv means better opponents , personally i think he'll just ride it out for has long has he can , get enouigh suckers to buy shit , and when he knows the games up he'll go for one big pay day against a good one.

Warrens time and tested way is too be slower than a snail and its made him plenty , Khans management are dillusional and believe there own hype

he's had 21 starts and hasn't faced one genuine lightweight domestic fighter

Why don't some of you guys get your heads out of your arses and start writing some sense?

He beat Scott Lawton (the reigning English lightweight champion) and Graham Earl, the former British and Commonwealth lightweight champion who had boxed for the WBO title in his previous fight.

Those might not be superstars, but they are certainly "genuine lightweight domestic fighter" and compare well to any "genuine lightweight domestic fighters" on John Murray's record.

gobbles wrote:

he's had 21 starts and hasn't faced one genuine lightweight domestic fighter

Why don't some of you guys get your heads out of your arses and start writing some sense?

He beat Scott Lawton (the reigning English lightweight champion) and Graham Earl, the former British and Commonwealth lightweight champion who had boxed for the WBO title in his previous fight.

Those might not be superstars, but they are certainly "genuine lightweight domestic fighter" and compare well to any "genuine lightweight domestic fighters" on John Murray's record.

The reason is, I think that the kid has talent. However Warren aint interested in that he wants to make money, feck the legacy and history that might follow - FW simply is not interested and so ruins what could be a promising career by matching the kid carefully and cautiously. He makes them money but ruins any chance of them having some kind of genuine impact.

And before ppl mention Calzaghe and Hatton, for example, its took JC over 10 yrs of fighting non-descript opponents before HE forced FW's hand into some tougher matches. Same for Hatton, fortunately both had the forsight to leave him and do significantly better for themselves. Shame someone like Khan doesnt see this, but then again, he has no say.

coneye wrote:Obviously i don't know Warren and don't know the ins and outs . but it does seem that Khans managenment are behind it , Warren is'nt stupid he knows Khans his current cash cow and he knows they wil not make serious money unless its ppv , but ppv means better opponents , personally i think he'll just ride it out for has long has he can , get enouigh suckers to buy shit , and when he knows the games up he'll go for one big pay day against a good one.

Warrens time and tested way is too be slower than a snail and its made him plenty , Khans management are dillusional and believe there own hype

i think khan is pooly manged though. his team were behind khan saying he could beat pacman. he gets told to say these thing by his mangement. warren dont care about khans legacy.hes only concered about ££££. also they are responsible for khan moving to PPV. not warren. he just has to please the mangement i guess.ast they become increasingly greedy and belive there boxers own hype. i can see the down fall of this though. the way they sacked Olly harrsion was a joke. im glad ollys doing well for moore.

gobbles wrote:

he's had 21 starts and hasn't faced one genuine lightweight domestic fighter

Why don't some of you guys get your heads out of your arses and start writing some sense?

He beat Scott Lawton (the reigning English lightweight champion) and Graham Earl, the former British and Commonwealth lightweight champion who had boxed for the WBO title in his previous fight.

Those might not be superstars, but they are certainly "genuine lightweight domestic fighter" and compare well to any "genuine lightweight domestic fighters" on John Murray's record.

Bit touchy aren't you Gobbles? Why don't you get your head out of Khans arse and see that I am talking sense? The Earl and Lawton victories were decent wins, no denying that, but they were both coming off stoppage losses. In other words, the infamous matching against guys "at the right time." In Lawtons case, a stoppage loss to Jon Thaxton who was crying out for a fight with Khan. Khan just didn't want to know though and opted for Lawton who was ideal for Khan with his 16% KO record.
Henry Castle then proceeded to KO Earl in the first round so could we maybe assume that the Katidis war left Earl a shell of a fighter?

For what it's worth, I think Murray is overhyped too and it's about time he starting moving his career on a bit, but I don't see every British tabloid raving on about him saying he's destined for world glory (provided he only fights the "right" opponents).

Anyway, why don't you try reading my whole post before you select specific lines so you can throw your toys out of the pram? My point is that Khan is been touted for a world title shot but is yet to face the top fighters at British and Euro Level. The only time he has faced a prime lightweight (ie young and on good form) he lost. I just don't think he will learn much fighting against older guys who punch light. His defence is his main problem and I'm sure Roach is working on that in the gym, but if everyone he faces is much smaller or light punching he's very likely to get lazy with his defence again because every fight will just be glorified target practice. This is why the Prescott loss happened, because he just was not prepared for a fighter who he needed a decent guard against

The whiskers department therein lies the problem for Dean Powell who is W arrens matchmaker when trying to find an opponent for Khan.

Khan I concede is a fantastic boxer when on the front foot and dictating terms - as soon as Khan comes up against a world class boxer who can take a shot and dish out a few of his own then unfortunately Mr Khan is in a whole heap of sh*t.

With regards to future opponents - look for someone with a world ranking - ish but more importantly possibly someone who is stepping up a weight or 2 and thus not as heavy handed.

What about Joan Guzman

He is small, hasnt carried up hisower at all well since his bantamweight/super days, wuick but not as quick as khan, questionable stamina and has a big shiny 0 so would fit PPV purposes

gobbles wrote:

he's had 21 starts and hasn't faced one genuine lightweight domestic fighter

Why don't some of you guys get your heads out of your arses and start writing some sense?

He beat Scott Lawton (the reigning English lightweight champion) and Graham Earl, the former British and Commonwealth lightweight champion who had boxed for the WBO title in his previous fight.

Those might not be superstars, but they are certainly "genuine lightweight domestic fighter" and compare well to any "genuine lightweight domestic fighters" on John Murray's record.

John Murray smashes Khan to bits!!!

lefthook82 wrote:What about Joan Guzman

He is small, hasnt carried up hisower at all well since his bantamweight/super days, wuick but not as quick as khan, questionable stamina and has a big shiny 0 so would fit PPV purposes

You mean the Joan Guzman that Juan Marquez and Pacman ducked? Marquez would be an easier fight

Spud wrote: John Murray smashes Khan to bits!!!

If that happened it would make Yousof Hamidi our no1 LW

murray aint gonna do shit to khan but i'll root for him anyway

DaveyH wrote:

gobbles wrote:

he's had 21 starts and hasn't faced one genuine lightweight domestic fighter

Why don't some of you guys get your heads out of your arses and start writing some sense?

He beat Scott Lawton (the reigning English lightweight champion) and Graham Earl, the former British and Commonwealth lightweight champion who had boxed for the WBO title in his previous fight.

Those might not be superstars, but they are certainly "genuine lightweight domestic fighter" and compare well to any "genuine lightweight domestic fighters" on John Murray's record.

Bit touchy aren't you Gobbles? Why don't you get your head out of Khans arse and see that I am talking sense? The Earl and Lawton victories were decent wins, no denying that, but they were both coming off stoppage losses. In other words, the infamous matching against guys "at the right time." In Lawtons case, a stoppage loss to Jon Thaxton who was crying out for a fight with Khan. Khan just didn't want to know though and opted for Lawton who was ideal for Khan with his 16% KO record.
Henry Castle then proceeded to KO Earl in the first round so could we maybe assume that the Katidis war left Earl a shell of a fighter?

For what it's worth, I think Murray is overhyped too and it's about time he starting moving his career on a bit, but I don't see every British tabloid raving on about him saying he's destined for world glory (provided he only fights the "right" opponents).

Anyway, why don't you try reading my whole post before you select specific lines so you can throw your toys out of the pram? My point is that Khan is been touted for a world title shot but is yet to face the top fighters at British and Euro Level. The only time he has faced a prime lightweight (ie young and on good form) he lost. I just don't think he will learn much fighting against older guys who punch light. His defence is his main problem and I'm sure Roach is working on that in the gym, but if everyone he faces is much smaller or light punching he's very likely to get lazy with his defence again because every fight will just be glorified target practice. This is why the Prescott loss happened, because he just was not prepared for a fighter who he needed a decent guard against

they were genuine domestic lightweights, the sort of people he ws being directly accused of not facing. And what's the reply "get your head out of Khan's arse".

The problem with this board is too many things get repeated, then people believe they are fact. We see it with all out top boxers and it's a shame. You can't state that he has "never faced one genuine domestic lightweight" as a fact and then expect people not to point out that it is clearly untrue, whether or not they were coming off defeats.

gobbles wrote: they were genuine domestic lightweights, the sort of people he ws being directly accused of not facing. And what's the reply "get your head out of Khan's arse".

The problem with this board is too many things get repeated, then people believe they are fact. We see it with all out top boxers and it's a shame. You can't state that he has "never faced one genuine domestic lightweight" as a fact and then expect people not to point out that it is clearly untrue, whether or not they were coming off defeats.

You told me to get my head out of my arse and write some sense, so i replied get your head out of Khans arse. Fair reply to a shite comment if you ask me.

And ok, if it means so much to you I'll rephrase the wording on my "genuine domestic lightweight" comment. What I meant, as I'm sure you actually know, is a lightweight contender who is on good form and a serious challenge to Khan ie someone with a fair dig who will push Khan. Thaxton and Murray are natural opponents for Khan and it's crying out to be made, but he chose the path of least resistance, the shop worn Earl and the feather fisted Thaxton victim Lawton.

For what it's worth I'm no Khan hater, I just can't see how matching him this carefully is beneficial, apart from to his and FW's wallets. If thats how they want to play it then fine but Khan has no right to moan about not being respected as a serious contender. I actually think Khan has the talent to beat Thaxton and Murray. I am a big fan of Thaxtons, the guy as a true credit to British boxing and a genuine warrior. But I think Khan has the tools to beat him. Had they fought when they should have, I think Thaxton would have pushed Khan hard for 12 bruising rounds but Khan would have edged it with his better skills. Think how much that would benefit Amir as a learning curve, a LOT more than 4 rounds against the feather fisted Lawton or even 12 rounds of barely moving target practice against St Clair. Khan would have had to work on his defence and dig deep to beat Thaxton but it was well within his reach.
Same as with Murray, I see Khan being pushed but winning a good fight. Another massive learning curve for Khan, and just as importantly, questions answered and credibility in the bag.

Had Khan bagged and won these two fights, I think he'd have been much more prepared for Prescott. But Khan has won every fight by landing fast combinations and never realy having to worry about anything coming back. Just watch him after the first knockdown against Prescott, he tried to gain the upper hand by going toe to toe, hoping his speed and power would win out. Absolutely no experience at all of utilising his defence. So when I criticise Khan for his choice of opponent, it's as much about the fact his cynical matchmaking has left his progression somewhat short. He has the talent to do this properly but taking the easy route has left him wanting big time at the top level.

the problem to making a khan vs murray or thaxton fight is a certain allegedly and mick hennessy.

we all know warren's track record of making fights with fellow domestic promoters.

it just don't happen.

Murray isn't Mick's biggest draw at the moment, so if Mick believes that Murray would beat Khan (I am literally 50/50) then I would let him fight on a PPV bill. Remember, you have to accumulate to speculate. Plus, it would get Murray nation wide press.

Win/win really.

Khan would beat Murray quite handily IMO, too fast and too skillfull sure Murray has a chance but I think Khan has a lot more in his locker. Murray seems to get way too much praise on these forums, I've seen nothing from him to make me think he'll be anything better than European class(then again I thought the same thing with Hatton too and made myself look a right fool when I told all my mates that he wouldn't see the end of the 3rd round against Tszyu ) he's looked crap against fairly average opponents and if he really was something special surely he'd have something more than the British title to show for it after over half a decade as a pro.

Nobody is saying that Murray would beat Zoo, or that he's even world-class. All I know is that Khan isn't world-class, not with that chin anyways. I think everyone who is a natural 135lbs fighter, and who can whack will have a decent chance Vs Khan.

Murray's destruction of a decent fighter in Meager was amazing. It he fought like that Vs Khan then he would knock him spark out. I don't think Murray missed a punch Vs Meager. He was fast, accurate and throw a lot of hard punches that landed cleanly.

banjo wrote:Khan would beat Murray quite handily IMO, too fast and too skillfull sure Murray has a chance but I think Khan has a lot more in his locker. Murray seems to get way too much praise on these forums, I've seen nothing from him to make me think he'll be anything better than European class.... he's looked crap against fairly average opponents and if he really was something special surely he'd have something more than the British title to show for it after over half a decade as a pro.

styles, mate. remember against Kristiaansen (sp?), who came forward behind a high guard like Muz does, after 5-6 rds of bopping shots off K's guard without hurting him and backpedalling Khan got a look on his face he gets sometimes, a kindof confused kid/ rabbit in headlights type look.

Muz is better than Kristiaansen on every level, I can see him pressuring Khan without actually doing much in the first 4-5 rounds, just keeping it tight and waiting for Khan to do himself on nervous energy expended.