BoxRec

1000 posts!! still punching.

1980 Larry Holmes is light years ahead of any bare knuckle hero one should dream about

Im going to go with a solid win with Sullivan. He manages to stop Mace in the 2oth round.
His bare swat action thumps Mace down.

I actually disagree with this assesment that Sullivan would have won. Mace was a contender even until his 60th birthday, challenging the likes of Charlie Mitchell, who gave Sullivan problems. In a prime vs prime scenario, Mace wins hands down. But at the time Sullivan issued his challenge to Mace, he may have won, but it wouldnt have been no easy task anyways, imo. Mace is considered the father of scientific boxing.

Scott Frank (1983) Vs Patsy Cardiff (1887) 10 rounds

and

Donnie Long (1985) Vs Jewey Smith (1908) 10 rounds

Not much is known of Jewey Smith, due to incomplete records, and thats a shame. Donnie Long, though, imo, was never anything special. But I have no choice but to somehow give it to Long, since Smith's record is so incomplete to due him any true justice.

Patsy Cardiff on the other hand has a more complete record, and Scott Frank...who the hell ever gave him a chance in hell against Holmes anyways? Cardiff was what was known as a 'spoiler', where sometimes he pulled off upsets against much better opposition. Even Sullivan and Killen and Mitchell managed draws against him. He was also one of the few who mixed it up with blacks, losing to George Godfrey in 16 rounds, and also had exhibitions with Peter Jackson. I say he edges Frank on points.

Incomplete records usually means they had lots of wins
against top opposition right ?

Scott Frank was nothing special but he was more deserving of
a title shot that Jewy Smith, Patsy cardiff and so on....

As a spoiler, what great upsets did Cardiff pull off ?? I know
CBZ uses the term spoiler, but what of it...he got some draws
in some 5 and 6 round bouts that were most likely exhibitions
any how?

I guess Cardiff is one of those supremely talented men of yester
year that would box the ears of most modern contenders.

Cool stuff.

Your turn to submit a pairing, Henry.

Incomplete records usually means they had lots of wins
against top opposition right ?

Scott Frank was nothing special but he was more deserving of
a title shot that Jewy Smith, Patsy cardiff and so on....

As a spoiler, what great upsets did Cardiff pull off ?? I know
CBZ uses the term spoiler, but what of it...he got some draws
in some 5 and 6 round bouts that were most likely exhibitions
any how?

I guess Cardiff is one of those supremely talented men of yester
year that would box the ears of most modern contenders.

Cool stuff.
Incomplete records usually means they had lots of wins
against top opposition right ?

Scott Frank was nothing special but he was more deserving of
a title shot that Jewy Smith, Patsy cardiff and so on....

As a spoiler, what great upsets did Cardiff pull off ?? I know
CBZ uses the term spoiler, but what of it...he got some draws
in some 5 and 6 round bouts that were most likely exhibitions
any how?

I guess Cardiff is one of those supremely talented men of yester
year that would box the ears of most modern contenders.

Cool stuff.

I never said he could box the ears off most modern contenders, just for his time, he pulled off alot of upsets against the best of his era, and imo that makes him good enough to have stayed in there with someone of the more modern era. As far as Jewey Smith is concerned, by today's records, we dont know much of him at all, but he had to of been of the same ilk as Jem Roche and Bill Lang were, whom Burns defended the title against. Roche, unfortunately as well, has an incomplete record here on BoxRec.

Your turn to submit a pairing, Henry.

Sorry, I forgot.

How about....

Tom Sharkey, vs, Wladimir Klitschko, 12 rounds, modern sized gloves, no three knock down rule

Klitschko stops Sharkey after two rounds. Sharkey is brave and
shows good knack when he attempts to clinch, but he is dwarfed
to much size and power inside of Wlad's gloves.

Jesse Fergusson (1993) vs Bill Squires (1908) 12 rounds.

Squires was shit that I do admit, even at his best. Ferguson wins.


Jem Roche, vs Kevin McBride, 10 rounds

Roche hands down, m'man. McBride...ugh

Bert Cooper & Tony Galento shake hands, tip hats, & exchange (un)pleasantries for fifteen rounds...

Interetsing match up.

Cooper and Galento throw lots of hard fisted blows....both go down.
Both get up/.....Galento goes down again...but stays down...lots of
blood on his face as he struggles to get back up.

Cooper KO 5.

Henry Cooper (1963) vs Tom Sharkey (1899) 12 rounds.

Oh GOD....what a brawl that would have been.....I love Galento, but damn....he'd have gotten caught too often, but hes an excellent example of what a street fighter type could do, Joe Louis even said of Galento he probably would have been champ in the bare knuckle days....TKO 6th Bert Cooper winner.

Damn Rob you beat me to it.....


Okay........Cooper's face cut like paper, Sharkey was the most brutal heavyweight of his time and one of the dirtiest ever, also one of the strongest...I dont see Cooper lasting long with Sharkey, he would have been beaten down inside of eight rounds, that is if Sharkey wasnt DQ'd first or Henry get a TKO loss.

here's a match up....


Mike The Giant White vs Eric Esch, club fight action,10 rounds

Butterbean lands the overhand right in round 3 and its lights out for Big Mike.


Roberto Duran vs Salvador Sanchez @ 130 8)

Duran,fresh off of winning by Tko10 over the Great Ernesto Marcel, takes on Salvador Sanchez, who is fresh off of the great Tko15w performance in the Nelson bout.Sanchez has decided to vacate 126 and thus,has just
decided to move up to 130 where a young sensation named Roberto Duran has been making waves and even calling out the Legendary FeatherWeight titleholder.

And so,they square up and proceed to battle in a scedualed 15 Round Showdown.

I think Sanchez takes it via decision.


Bartley Gorman, vs, Lew Yates, bare knuckle, fight to the finish

An awful tough affair --- to endure, to referee, & even to watch. Gorman scores the knockout punch with a broken hand in the twenty-eighth. Wretched, protracted, old-school battle. Too many fouls to count.

Main Event: Marvin Hagler vs. Gerald McClellan. Super-Middleweight. 12 Rounds.

Undercard: Felix Trinidad vs. Ted Lewis. Welterweight. 12 Rounds.

Marvin Hagler manages to stop McClellan in one of the major brawls of all time, both men getting knocked down at various times, but its Hagler's resolve that over comes in the end.

Ted Lewis, scores a decision, over Trinidad


Frank Bruno vs Joe Bugner (prime), 10 rounds

Assuming a well prepared Bugner.

Bugner gets rocked a few times early, but assumes control mid fight as Bruno tires. Bugner takes a comfortable UD.

Co features:

Mike Weaver vs Sam Peter

Joe Bugner vs Wlad Klitschko

Wlad wins UD too big does an Ibragimov on him
Charlie Zelenoff v A Dead Beetle

hitman09 wrote:Wlad wins UD too big does an Ibragimov on him
Charlie Zelenoff v A Dead Beetle

Dead Beetle by DQ1. Charlie just keep running from the beetle until the ref is forced to DQ.

And hitman -- u missed the Weaver-Peter matchup. Your thoughts?

Weaver, Peter couldn't beat Zelenoff based on his last fight

lets get back to the bouts...

this one is 12 rounds at welterweight;

"homicide" hennnnnnnnnry armstrong v aaaaaaaaron "the hawk" pryor

It's exciting while it lasts, but it doesn't last very long. Armstrong by TKO after dropping Pryor 4 times in the 3rd round.

Sticking with the JWW division.

Cervantes vs Hatton

antonio cervantes is an all time great light welter and he desposes of the current best light welter in convincing manner. hatton is dropped in round 2 by a peach of a left to the ribs - a hatton speciality!!! and on the mancunian rising and ready toni nearly takes his head off with a two punch combo. hatton is out cold and the ref's count doesnt get beyond 5 before he calls for ringside assistance for the slumbering brit. hatton is ok and eventually gets up and has this to say;
"when i was at school cervantes always sent me to sleep, so i cant be too surprised at this result can i?"

back to pryor..

aaron this time takes on barney ross at light welter, 12 rounds.

Interesting fight. Hatton makes it so. I think he'd have a degree of success, really sticking it to Cervantes in close, as he did tremendously against Tszyu. Cervantes with just a little too much class in the end, though. He was great with shorter, precise shots, & I think he'd come out the other end of a tough fight with a cut-induced TKO victory through ten rounds. Cervantes TKO10 Hatton.

Main Event: Jack Johnson squares off against Rocky Marciano. 25 Rounds.

Undercard: 15 Rounds of Kenny Norton & Ezzard Charles doing their thing.

Damn. Beaten to the punch.

Pryor whirlwinds in top form, but can't stand the heat against Armstrong, who just keeps coming & coming & coming. The loss is of the TKO variety, as Pryor dejectedly quits in his corner after eleven bruising rounds, of which he only managed to take three.

My matches as above...

marciano gives johnson too much to think about and a combo of two body shots and a right uppercut floor the great champ. jack gets up but his legs betray him and rocky crashes a wide right hand of awesome power into the jaded jaw of johnson. he goes down for the full count. it is round 6.

ezzard charles proves his class at heavyweight with a convincing win over norton. the heavier man is outboxed and finds it tough to get his punches to have any real effect against the slick charles. the cobra runs out a clear winner over the 15 round distance.

pryor v barney ross light welter

Norton-Charles, & your subsequent match-up?