Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

DLH must not have much confidence in Nacho Beristain to bring in Angelo Dundee, I think its an insult to Beristain, but I guess he is been paid the big bucks, so he'll just turn the other cheek.

[raylawpc]

Actually, guys, I think this might work. Dundee won't be in the corner - he will just be imparting advice at the training camp to De La Hoya's other trainers. The problem arises when both guys are trying to run the camp or, God forbid, work in the corner together.

Dundee is just a consultant. I don't think it ever hurts to have another pair of eyes looking things over, and offering suggestions - as long as there is a clear chain of command about who is ultimately in charge.

[kikibalt]

Actually, guys, I think this might work. Dundee won't be in the corner - he will just be imparting advice at the training camp to De La Hoya's other trainers. The problem arises when both guys are trying to run the camp or, God forbid, work in the corner together.

Dundee is just a consultant. I don't think it ever hurts to have another pair of eyes looking things over, and offering suggestions - as long as there is a clear chain of command about who is ultimately in charge.

I don't agree, either Beristain is the trainer or he is not, too many opinions only confuse everybody, besides, Beristain been around long enough to know what he is doing.

[kikibalt]

Sugar Ray Robinson at age 18

[kikibalt]

[kikibalt]

[bennie]

Did Beristain train Miguel Canto?

[raylawpc]

Actually, guys, I think this might work. Dundee won't be in the corner - he will just be imparting advice at the training camp to De La Hoya's other trainers. The problem arises when both guys are trying to run the camp or, God forbid, work in the corner together.

Dundee is just a consultant. I don't think it ever hurts to have another pair of eyes looking things over, and offering suggestions - as long as there is a clear chain of command about who is ultimately in charge.

I don't agree, either Beristain is the trainer or he is not, too many opinions only confuse everybody, besides, Beristain been around long enough to know what he is doing.

As I said, I think it will work as long as there is a clear chain of command about who is ultimately in charge. Otherwise, I agree its a bad idea.

As long as all the information is funneled through Beristain - who remains the trainer and chief second - what does it hurt to have a second pair of experienced eyes reviewing tapes and offering suggestions about strategy?

[kikibalt]

Did Beristain train Miguel Canto?

I maybe wrong, but I don't think so.

[kikibalt]

Actually, guys, I think this might work. Dundee won't be in the corner - he will just be imparting advice at the training camp to De La Hoya's other trainers. The problem arises when both guys are trying to run the camp or, God forbid, work in the corner together.

Dundee is just a consultant. I don't think it ever hurts to have another pair of eyes looking things over, and offering suggestions - as long as there is a clear chain of command about who is ultimately in charge.

I don't agree, either Beristain is the trainer or he is not, too many opinions only confuse everybody, besides, Beristain been around long enough to know what he is doing.

As I said, I think it will work as long as there is a clear chain of command about who is ultimately in charge. Otherwise, I agree its a bad idea.

As long as all the information is funneled through Beristain - who remains the trainer and chief second - what does it hurt to have a second pair of experienced eyes reviewing tapes and offering suggestions about strategy?

Well it would hurt if Beristain wants to go left and Dundee wants to go right, I still say its a bad idea.

[bennie]

I'm trying to think of the guy who trained Oscar for his first fight with Chavez. He worked on combinations with Oscar, and on the night Oscar was putting his punches together in bunches, especially after Chavez busted up - eight, nine, 10-punch combos.

[raylawpc]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, Frank. I don't see any problem with one trainer getting advice from another trainer regarding strategy, as long as everybody knows who's boss and the info is funneled through the top guy.

[bennie]

Amir Khan launches a quick comeback in December in Birmingham against gutsy Irishman Oisin Fagan, scheduled for 10 rounds.
The Bolton youngster suffered a disastrous first-round knockout at the hands of Colombian bogeyman Breidis Prescott in September in Manchester, losing his unbeaten record in the process. Unsurprisingly, it was his first - and last - fight for Cuban trainer Jorge Rubio, who had recommended Prescott as an opponent. Now trained by leading American guru Freddie Roach, Khan is still only 21 so there is plenty of time to bring him back. The former Olympic silver medallist needs to tighten up his defence, obviously, and learn to pace himself and 'think' more in there. Khan rushed straight out and traded with a fast starter and a proven puncher in Prescott, who had 15 wins inside three rounds. Two knockdowns later...
Khan's chin, or lack of it, poses a bigger quandry for Roach. Khan was matched with a succession of non-punchers prior to Prescott and still went down a few times. Then he meets a genuine puncher and is destroyed, all over in 54 seconds - Prescott even hurt Khan with a jab.
To the 34-year-old Fagan (pushing 35), a Dubliner who does much of his fighting in the States and is unlikely to get much of a jab home against Khan at a stocky 5ft 6ins and comes in with a brawler's reputation anyway and with a record of 22-5 (13). Fagan went in with former IBF lightweight champ Paul Spadafora last year in Michigan and was outscored on a split decision after 12 rounds, a decent performance, although southpaw Spadafora was having just his second fight after alcohol problems and a stint in jail (his second fight in almost three years, in fact).
Julio Cesar Chavez Junior, renowned as a 'protected' fighter, also outscored Fagan, in a four-rounder in 2004, which is not such a decent result for Fagan. Chavez makes even Khan look old.
More importantly, for Team Khan, Fagan is not a puncher. In fact he looks made for Amir: he is tough and will keep coming and walking on to the counters. Khan has undoubted boxing ability. His hands are so fast they appear as a blur in the ring. He boxes his way to a decision.

[Counter-puncher]

to me, Fagin is one of the least reprehensible pieces of matchmaking associated with Team Kahn since the start of his career.

[bennie]

to me, Fagin is one of the least reprehensible pieces of matchmaking associated with Team Kahn since the start of his career.

Tell us more, mate. Looking at his record, I see Okie from Muskogee. Can he budge Khan?

[Counter-puncher]

haha not much to say, he's just bigger and tougher than Limond or St Clair, less shot than Gomez and Earl, better than Kristiaansen, and will come to fight at least. he can budge Khan, as could any other normal-punching LW. he's just 15% better than I was expecting from our friends at Sports Network at this stage

when khan got KTFO i was at the arena and believe me FWank didn't look too displeased at the end, nowhere near as crestfallen as you would expect given the circumstances. when khan was matched with a puncher like Prescott myself and a mate talked it over and all we could think of was (a) prescott was rubbish and had a blownup record but they would trumpet a win over him as though khan had beaten a peak Hearns or (b) bearing in mind that Khan's allegedly ridiculous financial demands forced that fight onto PPV in the first place, in order to pay for them, either FWank wanted to get rid of Khan and his high money demands, or wanted to put khan in his place- khan's family had been wanting and getting more control over his career, choice of opponents/ trainer etc- a nasty knockout and learning experience and Khan would be back to toeing the SN party line all humbled and so on.

the 'conspiracy' aspect got more credence when i saw the total lack of shock and dismay on FW's face after the KO. on the contrary it was almost like he had to stop himself from looking too smug. which is doubtless a lifelong struggle :)

[raylawpc]

to me, Fagin is one of the least reprehensible pieces of matchmaking associated with Team Kahn since the start of his career.

Tell us more, mate. Looking at his record, I see Okie from Muskogee. Can he budge Khan?

What do you have against Okies from Muskogee, bennie?

[kikibalt]

to me, Fagin is one of the least reprehensible pieces of matchmaking associated with Team Kahn since the start of his career.

Tell us more, mate. Looking at his record, I see Okie from Muskogee. Can he budge Khan?

What do you have against Okies from Muskogee, bennie?

I knew it! I knew it!....

[bennie]

haha not much to say, he's just bigger and tougher than Limond or St Clair, less shot than Gomez and Earl, better than Kristiaansen, and will come to fight at least. he can budge Khan, as could any other normal-punching LW. he's just 15% better than I was expecting from our friends at Sports Network at this stage

when khan got KTFO i was at the arena and believe me FWank didn't look too displeased at the end, nowhere near as crestfallen as you would expect given the circumstances. when khan was matched with a puncher like Prescott myself and a mate talked it over and all we could think of was (a) prescott was rubbish and had a blownup record but they would trumpet a win over him as though khan had beaten a peak Hearns or (b) bearing in mind that Khan's allegedly ridiculous financial demands forced that fight onto PPV in the first place, in order to pay for them, either FWank wanted to get rid of Khan and his high money demands, or wanted to put khan in his place- khan's family had been wanting and getting more control over his career, choice of opponents/ trainer etc- a nasty knockout and learning experience and Khan would be back to toeing the SN party line all humbled and so on.

the 'conspiracy' aspect got more credence when i saw the total lack of shock and dismay on FW's face after the KO. on the contrary it was almost like he had to stop himself from looking too smug. which is doubtless a lifelong struggle :)

Thanks for the response. You raise some decent points. I think Frank has seen it all before, you know, and he has his enemies, of course. He knows how to look detached in a disaster. Fagan looks tough and is tough but has fought an awful lot of those gas station attendants.

[bennie]

to me, Fagin is one of the least reprehensible pieces of matchmaking associated with Team Kahn since the start of his career.

Tell us more, mate. Looking at his record, I see Okie from Muskogee. Can he budge Khan?

What do you have against Okies from Muskogee, bennie?

I had a feeling my comment would not pass. Fagan fights out of Okie, that's all.

[raylawpc]

Tell us more, mate. Looking at his record, I see Okie from Muskogee. Can he budge Khan?

What do you have against Okies from Muskogee, bennie?

I knew it! I knew it!....

You knew what? I'm an Okie . . . but I'm not from Muskogee . . .

[kikibalt]

I just knew that you would have something to say about Bennie's post....

[raylawpc]

Ah . . . I see.

Actually, Muskogee is a pretty nice little town - very scenic - nestled in some beautiful hills in eastern Oklahoma. It used to be a good amateur boxing town in the 1970s, too.

[dagosd2000]

by Marc Abrams on 30 October 2008

LEGENDARY TRAINER ANGELO DUNDEE JOINS TEAM DE LA HOYA AS SPECIAL CONSULTANT FOR PACQUIAO SUPERFIGHT

LOS ANGELES, October 30 - As the architect for some of the greatest fighters of all-time, including Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard and George Foreman, Angelo Dundee’s name is synonymous with excellence. Now, the legendary trainer will look to impart his wisdom on boxing’s reigning superstar - Oscar de la Hoya - as a special consultant for the “Golden Boy” for his December 6th super-fight with Manny Pacquiao.

Dundee joins world-renowned trainer Ignacio “Nacho” Beristain on Team De La Hoya for the showdown, which will take place at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada. Tickets for the bout are sold-out, but the event will air live on HBO Pay-Per-View beginning at 9pm ET / 6pm PT and closed circuit tickets are available at MGM-Mirage properties in Las Vegas.

“I am honored to have Angelo Dundee on my team for the biggest fight of my career,” said De La Hoya. “His knowledge of the fight game is second to none, and along with Nacho Beristain, I feel like I have an unbeatable team in my corner for this fight against Pacquiao.”

Dundee will review fight tapes, consult with Team De La Hoya regarding technique and strategy, visit training camp in Big Bear, California and attend fight week events. While he will consult with De La Hoya and Beristain regarding fight strategy, he will not be working the corner during the fight, leaving Beristain as the lead strategist and sole voice in the corner on fight night.

“After working with Ali and Leonard, I think it’s only fitting that I now get the chance to work with the most important fighter of this era,” said Dundee. “This fight against Pacquiao is the biggest fight boxing has seen in years and I’m excited to be a part of it and to help lead Oscar to victory.”

A 1994 inductee to the International Boxing Hall of Fame, Angelo Dundee has been a fixture in the boxing world for most of his life and is one of the game’s most revered ambassadors. In the ring, he has worked with 15 world champions, including Ali, Leonard, Foreman, Carmen Basilio, Jose Napoles, Luis Rodriguez and Willie Pastrano. Now he will take “The Golden Boy” under his wing.

Promoted by Golden Boy Promotions and Top Rank, Inc., presented by Tequila Cazadores and sponsored by Ceverza Tecate, DeWalt Tools, Full Throttle Energy Drink, and Southwest Airlines, the fight sold out in hours, making it the second largest grossing gate in boxing history. This exciting and intriguing 12-round, 147-pound welterweight battle pits two of the most recognizable and popular talents in the sport in what will surely be the grand finale of the 2008 boxing calendar year.

'Ol Oscar should run for office. He's got HBO saying that he's the most popular fighter around. Then Oscar says he's in the best shape of his life. He's hungrier now than he's ever been. And now he has Angelo working with him. Mayweather's old man,Freddie Roach,Emmanuel Stewart,now Angelo. The biggest win on his record was an old Julio Cesar.
I ain't putting up no scratch to watch Oscar anymore. If I watch the fight,I'll go to the Coahuila and watch it at the Caliente Sports Book. I don't know how I'll bet it,but Oscar has made me some dough in the past. By losing.

If he loses again,I'll take my winnings to the Boom Boom Club and set the bar up. Somehow spending the money I win on Oscar being a dud and then throwing it around a cantina seems fitting.

[raylawpc]

"Okie from Muskogee"
by Merle Haggard

"We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee;
We don't take no trips on LSD
We don't burn no draft cards down on Main Street;
We like livin' right, and bein' free.

I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all

We don't make a party out of lovin';
We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo;
We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy,
Like the hippies out in San Francisco do.

And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball.
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all.

Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear;
Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.
Football's still the roughest thing on campus,
And the kids here still respect the college dean.

And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee
A place where even squares can have a ball
We still wave Old Glory, down at the courthouse,
In Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA."

"Okie from Muskogee" came out in 1969 when I was in high school. Everybody in high school and college hated it then. Now, I like it!

As Churchhill wrote:
"If you are not a liberal at twenty, you have no heart. If you are not a conservative at forty, you have no brain."