BoxRec

Yeah , he beat Castillo largely on the basis of being bigger and stronger and gradually wearing him down and imposing himself on him

Counter, have you seen Castillo's bout with Julio Cesar Chavez? I bring it up because I highly recommend this fight for just some really good action. There are some absolutely brilliant combinations, exchanges and good hard punches back and forth from both men. This is a fight I've watched a number of times before just for its controlled mayhem. A really good fight if you get a chance.

No I don't think i have seen it, thanks

Gennady Golovkin-Daniel Jacobs

GGG: 1, 4 (knockdown), 5, 8, 9, 12
Jacobs: 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11

GGG 114-113

Seamus wrote:Tommy Hearns vs Harold Weston

R1.10-9 TH
R2.10-10
R3.10-9 HW
R4.10-9 TH
R5.10-9 HW
R6.10-9 HW

Tommy Hearns TK0 6 after Weston is unable to continue due to an eye injury. I had it 58-57 for Harold Weston. All 3 judges had it 58-56 for Hearns, but they had given Weston the last 2 rds.

Really an unfortunate result for Harold Weston, who after getting hammered in the 1st round had done a good job of blocking alot of Hearns punches while countering to the body. Weston was getting inside, dictating the pace and Hearns' punches looked to be losing there steam. A really shame it ended like this because Weston looked like he had a decent shot at the upset.

I had it 58-56 Hearns. From round 2 on, Harold made it extremely competitive, and definitely won the last 2, but Tommy had the first 4. Could Harold have scored the upset? Doubt it, figure Tommy would have came on possibly by the eighth round, but there was a good possibility for it. Sad Harold's career went out like that, surprised he never fought Ray Leonard.

scartissue wrote:Guys, here's a real Christmas treat for you if you've never seen it. The Boza-Edwards-Roberto Elizondo 10 rounder. Saw it back in the day, but remembered it again recently. All I can say is Wow!. It didn't lose its luster over the years. Here we go, 10 point must system.

Round 1: 10-9 Elizondo
Round 2: 10-9 Elizondo - I saw the first portion of the round and the last portion. A power failure took out the action in between. I felt Elizondo controlled what I did see and the announcer stated that Elizondo really 'sparkled' that round. So I had to take a leap of faith.
Round 3: 10-9 Boza
Round 4: 10-9 Boza
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Boza
Round 8: 10-9 Elizondo
Round 9: 10-9 Boza
Round 10: 10-9 Boza

Total: 97-95 Boza Edwards

This fight was amazing. Fought at break neck speed and phonebooth warfare. Rounds 8, 9 & 10 were incredible, but actually, every round was. I must tackle the Nelson-Martinez fight next. It sounds great.

Just saw it on YouTube, and felt it was a clear Boza win. Roberto won the initial 2 rounds, but Boza took it from there. He got into his rhythm, and though Roberto made several rounds close, he didn't do enough to win. 8-2 Boza.

Nile4000 wrote:

scartissue wrote:Guys, here's a real Christmas treat for you if you've never seen it. The Boza-Edwards-Roberto Elizondo 10 rounder. Saw it back in the day, but remembered it again recently. All I can say is Wow!. It didn't lose its luster over the years. Here we go, 10 point must system.

Round 1: 10-9 Elizondo
Round 2: 10-9 Elizondo - I saw the first portion of the round and the last portion. A power failure took out the action in between. I felt Elizondo controlled what I did see and the announcer stated that Elizondo really 'sparkled' that round. So I had to take a leap of faith.
Round 3: 10-9 Boza
Round 4: 10-9 Boza
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Boza
Round 8: 10-9 Elizondo
Round 9: 10-9 Boza
Round 10: 10-9 Boza

Total: 97-95 Boza Edwards

This fight was amazing. Fought at break neck speed and phonebooth warfare. Rounds 8, 9 & 10 were incredible, but actually, every round was. I must tackle the Nelson-Martinez fight next. It sounds great.

Just saw it on YouTube, and felt it was a clear Boza win. Roberto won the initial 2 rounds, but Boza took it from there. He got into his rhythm, and though Roberto made several rounds close, he didn't do enough to win. 8-2 Boza.

Nile, thanks for your input. I just felt Elizondo's body-punching wasn't taken heed of at times. Incidentally, official scores were 97-93, 96-94 and 96-94 again. It was an excellent fight though, wasn't it?

scartissue wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:

scartissue wrote:Guys, here's a real Christmas treat for you if you've never seen it. The Boza-Edwards-Roberto Elizondo 10 rounder. Saw it back in the day, but remembered it again recently. All I can say is Wow!. It didn't lose its luster over the years. Here we go, 10 point must system.

Round 1: 10-9 Elizondo
Round 2: 10-9 Elizondo - I saw the first portion of the round and the last portion. A power failure took out the action in between. I felt Elizondo controlled what I did see and the announcer stated that Elizondo really 'sparkled' that round. So I had to take a leap of faith.
Round 3: 10-9 Boza
Round 4: 10-9 Boza
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Boza
Round 8: 10-9 Elizondo
Round 9: 10-9 Boza
Round 10: 10-9 Boza

Total: 97-95 Boza Edwards

This fight was amazing. Fought at break neck speed and phonebooth warfare. Rounds 8, 9 & 10 were incredible, but actually, every round was. I must tackle the Nelson-Martinez fight next. It sounds great.

Just saw it on YouTube, and felt it was a clear Boza win. Roberto won the initial 2 rounds, but Boza took it from there. He got into his rhythm, and though Roberto made several rounds close, he didn't do enough to win. 8-2 Boza.

Nile, thanks for your input. I just felt Elizondo's body-punching wasn't taken heed of at times. Incidentally, official scores were 97-93, 96-94 and 96-94 again. It was an excellent fight though, wasn't it?

It was Scar, definitely was. And you right, people didn't take heed of Roberto's body punching. I bet if Elizondo fought any of the WBA champs, he would've been champion.

Just came across this fight. It is beautiful in its clarity. This is the second fight between Emile Griffith and Andy (Kid) Heilman. NY scoring on a rounds basis.

Round 1: Griffith
Round 2: Heilman
Round 3: Heilman
Round 4: Griffith
Round 5: Even
Round 6: Griffith
Round 7: Griffith
Round 8: Griffith
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Even

Total: 5-2-3 Griffith

Griffith fought in spurts in this fight - possibly because he was aging - and Heilman fought the fight of his life by crowding Griffith for 10 rounds. You'll have to ask yourself on what you take heed of. Heilman doing the heavy lifting for 10 rounds or Griffith's sharper punching. I had the feeling Griffith could have ended it if he really wanted to put some oomph into his workrate, but again, this was an aging Griffith. I was obviously more impressed with Heilman's crowding tactics than the officials who scored 8-2, 8-2 and 7-3 for Griffith. Good fight.

I can't believe none of us looked at the welterweight title bout between Pipino Cuevas and Randy Shields. I also can't believe I never watched it back in the day. Anyways, here we go. 5 point must system in effect.

Round 1: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 2: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 3: 5-4 Shields
Round 4: 5-4 Shields
Round 5: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 6: 5-5 Even
Round 7: 5-4 Shields
Round 8: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 9: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 10: 5-4 Shields
Round 11: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 12: 5-5 Even
Round 13: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 14: 5-4 Cuevas
Round 15: 5-4 Shields

Total: 70-67 Cuevas

This bout had plenty of shifts, but it really came down to the fact that Cuevas simply had more heft in his shots. Randy was the perfect foil for him - having a great jaw - but he had absolutely no pop in his punches. With so many of them being taps and sometimes even slaps, it was Cuevas' shots that impressed more and who took the lion's share on my card.

Checked out the IBF jr. middleweight fight between Buster Drayton and Davey Moore. Don't recall if I saw it back in the day, but here we go.

Round 1: 10-9 Moore
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Moore
Round 4: 10-9 Drayton
Round 5: 10-9 Moore
Round 6: 10-9 Moore
Round 7: 10-9 Moore
Round 8: 10-9 Drayton
Round 9: 10-9 Drayton
Round 10: TKO for Drayton

Total through 9 completed rounds: 87-85 Moore

Official scores were 87-85 Drayton, 87-86 Moore and 86-86 Even. It was still anyone's fight. I will say, however, that I thought the stoppage was a bit iffy. Drayton had tagged him and was unloading in the corner, but Moore was fighting back well and didn't appear to be buzzed. He should have got out of that corner, however. When this fight took place there were a few fatalities at the time and they were a little quick on the draw at stopping fights. Sometime even the appearance of distress can lead to a stoppage if prolonged.

Just watched one of those great old gilette fights, this one from Boston Gardens. Joey Giambra vs Joe DuNucci. 10 point must, which must have been unusual at the time. I know NY was still on the rounds system so plaudits to Massachusetts for being a frontrunner with this scoring system.

Round 1: 10-9 DeNucci
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 DeNucci
Round 4: 10-9 DeNucci
Round 5: 10-9 DeNucci
Round 6: 10-9 DeNucci
Round 7: 10-9 Giambra
Round 8: 10-9 Giambra
Round 9: 10-9 Giambra
Round 10: 10-9 Giambra

Total: 96-95 DeNucci

I had heard this was a controversial bout where even some Boston papers had Giambra winning. But Giambra caused his own problems by not turning it on until late. Don Dunphy even mentioned there might be a 10-8 round in there and suggested the 8th round. But, although I did not score any round other than 10-9, I did think the 10th was Giambra's biggest round. The problem here was DeNucci stayed so busy popping the jab, thumping Giambra in the clinches and generally outhustling him in the first half that Giambra just could not overcome that early lead and really needed to turn it on earlier. But hey, this was Giambra's last fight, so maybe the mind was willing but the body wasn't. A good fight regardless. Official scores were 95-94 Giambra, 95-94 DeNucci, and 97-95 for DeNucci. So a very close fight indeed.

After seeing the thread on this fight I decided to score it.

Sonny Liston vs Eddie Machen

R1.10-9 SL
R2.10-9 SL
R3.10-9 SL
R4.10-9 SL
R5.10-9 SL
R6.9-9 (1 pt from Liston for a low blow)
R7.10-10
R8.10-9 SL
R9.10-9 SL
R10.10-9 SL
R11.9-8 EM (2 pts from Liston for low blows)
R12.10-10

Sonny Liston 117-110

Eddie Machen did a good job of punch blocking and even jabbed well at times, but he just wasn't countering enough or getting off first to have a chance of winning. Liston never had Machen in trouble, but he always looked to be pressing the attack, dictating the pace, and keeping the punches coming, It should be pointed out though, that this was prime Liston in his 32nd bout, a guy some posters here think would stop Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Frazier, Bowe, etc

Raul Perez vs Gaby Canizales II

Their first fight ended on a 9th round cut eye TKO for Perez in a bout which was said to be dead even at the time of the stoppage. Here they are for the title.

Round 1: 10-9 Canizales
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Perez
Round 4: 10-9 Perez
Round 5: 10-9 Perez
Round 6: 10-9 Perez
Round 7: 10-9 Perez
Round 8: 10-9 Canizales
Round 9: 10-9 Perez
Round 10: 10-9 Perez
Round 11: 10-9 Perez
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total: 118-112 Perez

This was a very fast-paced bout but Gaby could not solve that height and reach of Perez. I think they said Gaby was 5'5" 1/2 to Perez' 5'10". For a bantam that is Panama Al Brown dimensions. still, it wasn't just height and reach. Perez could really handle a punch and this was why he was champ because Gaby got through with some killer blows, just not enough of them to take many rounds. Actual scores were 119-109, 116-112 and 117-109 all for Perez.

Seamus wrote:After seeing the thread on this fight I decided to score it.

Sonny Liston vs Eddie Machen

R1.10-9 SL
R2.10-9 SL
R3.10-9 SL
R4.10-9 SL
R5.10-9 SL
R6.9-9 (1 pt from Liston for a low blow)
R7.10-10
R8.10-9 SL
R9.10-9 SL
R10.10-9 SL
R11.9-8 EM (2 pts from Liston for low blows)
R12.10-10

Sonny Liston 117-110

Eddie Machen did a good job of punch blocking and even jabbed well at times, but he just wasn't countering enough or getting off first to have a chance of winning. Liston never had Machen in trouble, but he always looked to be pressing the attack, dictating the pace, and keeping the punches coming, It should be pointed out though, that this was prime Liston in his 32nd bout, a guy some posters here think would stop Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Frazier, Bowe, etc

Liston is easily one of the most overrated fighters in this section. There's been way too much 'I just cant see how ATG X could beat him'....

Seamus wrote:Pinklon Thomas vs Tim Witherspoon

1.10-9 TW
2.10-9 TW
3.10-9 PT
4.10-9 TW
5.10-8 PT (pt taken from Witherspoon for repeated backhands)
6.10-9 PT
7.10-9 PT
8.10-9 PT
9.10-9 TW
10.10-10
11.10-10
12.10-9 PT

Pinklon Thomas 116-113

Very good fight, and if you love to see jabbing, this is a bout worth watching. Pinklon Thomas showed excellent composure in winning the title from Witherspoon, because he was hit with some good shots, but just soaked it up and stayed within his fight plan and scored heavily with his jab and quick combinations.

Wanted to give this one a go. never saw it before, so here we go.

Round 1: 10-9 Witherspoon
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Thomas
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-8 Thomas (Point deducted from TW for repeated backhands)
Round 6: 10-9 Thomas
Round 7: 10-9 Thomas
Round 8: 10-9 Witherspoon
Round 9: 10-9 Witherspoon
Round 10: 10-9 Thomas
Round 11: 10-10 Even
Round 12: 10-9 Thomas

Total: 117-113 Thomas

Those first 4 rounds were very close and those haymakers of Witherspoon could change the complexion of a fight depending on what a judge is looking for. Actual scores were 114-114, 115-112 and 116-112 for a majority decision to Thomas.

One more Pinklon Thomas fight. Another fight I missed back in the day between he and Mike Weaver.

Round 1: 10-8 Thomas (scores a knockdown)
Round 2: 10-9 Thomas
Round 3: 10-9 Weaver
Round 4: 10-9 Weaver
Round 5: 10-9 Weaver
Round 6: 10-9 Thomas
Round 7: 10-9 Thomas
Round 8: Thomas scores a KO

Total through 7 completed rounds: 67-65 Thomas

This bout was still anybodys. The famous Weaver second wind hadn't kicked yet and I could see him really putting the hurt on Thomas down the stretch. But at 33 it wasn't to be and a clean one-punch KO for Thomas between two very evenly matched pugs.

Floyd Mayweather - Jose Luis Castillo II

Round 1: 10-9 Mayweather
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Mayweather
Round 4: 10-9 Castillo
Round 5: 10-9 Castillo
Round 6: 10-9 Castillo
Round 7: 10-9 Mayweather
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Castillo
Round 10: 10-9 Mayweather
Round 11: 10-9 Mayweather
Round 12: 10-9 Mayweather

Total: 116-114 Mayweather

Mayweather boxed smarter than their first fight (which I scored for Castillo), keeping on the outside and pot-shotting Castillo. No issues with the decision which were 115-113 (twice) and 116-113 for Floyd.

I see a few of you guys scored the Lennox Lewis-Ray Mercer fight. Good tough one and close. Here's how I had it.

Round 1: 10-9 Mercer
Round 2: 10-9 Lewis
Round 3: 10-9 Lewis
Round 4: 10-9 Lewis
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Mercer
Round 7: 10-9 Lewis
Round 8: 10-9 Lewis
Round 9: 10-9 Mercer
Round 10: 10-10 Even

Total: 97-95 Lewis

Realistically, I can see a few different versions of this fight on anyone's card. Very close. Official scores 95-95, 96-95 and 96-94 for Lewis on a majority decision.

Lennox Lewis vs Ray Mercer

R1 10-9 RM
R2.10-9 RM
R3.10-9 LL
R4.10-9 LL
R5.10-10 Even
R6.10-9 RM
R7.10-9 LL
R8.10-9 LL
R9.10-10 Even
R10.10-9 LL
97-95 Lennox Lewis

First time I've ever watched this bout in it's entirety. Not one of Lennox Lewis' finest performances, but he did demonstrate that he has something he's seldom given credit for. A pretty solid chin. Mercer displayed a good jab when he chose to use it, and we know he has a right hand. It's just that he doesn't seem to be able to use the two togather very consistently. I'd heard that LL tired badly in this fight, but after watching it, I saw that it was Mercer who had trouble sustaing offensives. Still a rather entertaining battle.

Seamus wrote:Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali I

R1.JF 1pt
R2.MA 1pt
R3.Even
R4.MA 1pt
R5.JF 1pt
R6.JF 1pt
R7.JF 1pt
R8.JF 1pt
R9.MA 1pt
R10.JF 1pt
R11.JF 2pts
R12.JF 1pt
R13.MA 1pt
R14.MA 1pt
R15.JF 2pts

Under scoring system used. 1pt for winning a round, 2 pts typically for a knockdown or winning round decisively, 0 pts for an even round. I scored it Joe Frazier 11-5. Had the 10 pt must been in use that would have been 145-139 for Joe Frazier.

This is the second time I watched this fight in my life and this is how I had it with pen to paper. Seamus, this was scored on NY's rounds basis, which is only 1 point a round. A very flawed system because it prevents you from giving Joe extra points for the 11th and 15th rounds. Unless the fight is scored even, in which then it allows supplemental points, but only if it is even. It's like a tie-breaker, but employed with major flaws.

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Frazier
Round 6: Frazier
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Frazier
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Ali
Round 11: Frazier
Round 12: Frazier
Round 13: Frazier
Round 14: Ali
Round 15: Frazier

Total: 7-6-2 Frazier

I watched the Don Dunphy version, which remarkably enough had Burt Lancaster and Archie Moore doing color commentary. Lancaster was even up in the ring afterwards with a microphone. But regardless, a great fight.

Salvador Sanchez vs Azumah Nelson

1.10-9 SS
2.10-9 SS
3.10-9 AN
4.10-9 AN
5.10-9 AN
6.10-9 SS
7.10-8 SS
8.10-9 AN
9.10-9 SS
10.10-9 SS
11.10-9 AN
12.10-9 SS
13.10-9 SS
14.10-9 AN
134-131 Sanchez.
Great competitive fight. Sanchez was using that jab to the midsection quite a bit, and was really starting to time Nelson nicely in the 13th. Azumah fought a great fight, but Salvador was just a step and level ahead of him.

scartissue wrote:

Seamus wrote:Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali I

R1.JF 1pt
R2.MA 1pt
R3.Even
R4.MA 1pt
R5.JF 1pt
R6.JF 1pt
R7.JF 1pt
R8.JF 1pt
R9.MA 1pt
R10.JF 1pt
R11.JF 2pts
R12.JF 1pt
R13.MA 1pt
R14.MA 1pt
R15.JF 2pts

Under scoring system used. 1pt for winning a round, 2 pts typically for a knockdown or winning round decisively, 0 pts for an even round. I scored it Joe Frazier 11-5. Had the 10 pt must been in use that would have been 145-139 for Joe Frazier.

This is the second time I watched this fight in my life and this is how I had it with pen to paper. Seamus, this was scored on NY's rounds basis, which is only 1 point a round. A very flawed system because it prevents you from giving Joe extra points for the 11th and 15th rounds. Unless the fight is scored even, in which then it allows supplemental points, but only if it is even. It's like a tie-breaker, but employed with major flaws.

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Frazier
Round 6: Frazier
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Frazier
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Ali
Round 11: Frazier
Round 12: Frazier
Round 13: Frazier
Round 14: Ali
Round 15: Frazier

Total: 7-6-2 Frazier

I watched the Don Dunphy version, which remarkably enough had Burt Lancaster and Archie Moore doing color commentary. Lancaster was even up in the ring afterwards with a microphone. But regardless, a great fight.

If there a 10-point must system, I would have scored the 11th round 10-8 as well. The problem is that the judges probably would not have. Most of the time, the judges only score a round 10-8 if there is a knockdown. Have always thought that it's too bad that the judges score fights the way that they do.

For that matter, should it be automatic that the round be 10-8 if there is a knockdown? Take the 15th round here. Take away the three second knockdown, and Ali would have won the round. But you know everyone would have had it 10-8.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

scartissue wrote:

Seamus wrote:Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali I

R1.JF 1pt
R2.MA 1pt
R3.Even
R4.MA 1pt
R5.JF 1pt
R6.JF 1pt
R7.JF 1pt
R8.JF 1pt
R9.MA 1pt
R10.JF 1pt
R11.JF 2pts
R12.JF 1pt
R13.MA 1pt
R14.MA 1pt
R15.JF 2pts

Under scoring system used. 1pt for winning a round, 2 pts typically for a knockdown or winning round decisively, 0 pts for an even round. I scored it Joe Frazier 11-5. Had the 10 pt must been in use that would have been 145-139 for Joe Frazier.

This is the second time I watched this fight in my life and this is how I had it with pen to paper. Seamus, this was scored on NY's rounds basis, which is only 1 point a round. A very flawed system because it prevents you from giving Joe extra points for the 11th and 15th rounds. Unless the fight is scored even, in which then it allows supplemental points, but only if it is even. It's like a tie-breaker, but employed with major flaws.

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Frazier
Round 6: Frazier
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Frazier
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Ali
Round 11: Frazier
Round 12: Frazier
Round 13: Frazier
Round 14: Ali
Round 15: Frazier

Total: 7-6-2 Frazier

I watched the Don Dunphy version, which remarkably enough had Burt Lancaster and Archie Moore doing color commentary. Lancaster was even up in the ring afterwards with a microphone. But regardless, a great fight.

If there a 10-point must system, I would have scored the 11th round 10-8 as well. The problem is that the judges probably would not have. Most of the time, the judges only score a round 10-8 if there is a knockdown. Have always thought that it's too bad that the judges score fights the way that they do.

For that matter, should it be automatic that the round be 10-8 if there is a knockdown? Take the 15th round here. Take away the three second knockdown, and Ali would have won the round. But you know everyone would have had it 10-8.

Alp, you're right. A lot of judges just automatically score 10-8 without giving the whole round credence. For example, the 11th round of Juan LaPorte against Ruben Castillo. I thought Castillo had a good round, but in the waning seconds of the round LaPorte dropped him. I scored the round 10-10. laPorte gets a point for the knockdown, but I'm not going to forget that Castillo won 7/8 of that round. Now, how the judges saw it I don't know but I get the feeling most of them went with the low-hanging fruit approach and just gave it to LaPorte 10-8. As for Ali-Frazier, if it was a 10 point must system in effect I would have scored rounds 11 and 15 10-8 for a 144-141 for Frazier. As I said, that rounds system was seriously flawed. Of course, even with the 10 point must system in effect today you get screw ups. Look at Adelaide Byrd's score over the weekend for Canelo. Seriously? And are they going to pull here license or send her back for more training? I'm sure they're just going to assign her another plumb assignment.

She is one of their leading trainers!!!