Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 29 Nov 2008, 14:00
I want to see Diego's plate!
Frnnk, now that I'm aging I can't eat like I used to. This is like the plate my mother used to feed me when I was still in a high chair. In my eating prime George Foreman or Roberto Duran would have ran for their lives. I could eat. This is my plate after my wife and daughters telling me that I have to watch my weight.kikibalt wrote:I thought you were sick, Randy!!....Randyman wrote:
My Thanksgiving plate.
Randy,Randyman wrote:I can back up that statement. Frankie showed a big heart in the Juan Escobar fight. How good was Escobar? Well, He fought Salvador Sanchez to a draw so that gives you some indication. Frankie had a rough start in that fight. He wasn't able to find his range early on and he wasn't getting his punches off, throwing one punch at a time. The early rounds, and I'm not taking anything away from Escobar, were marked more by what Frankie wasn't doing than by what Escobar was doing. Frankie seemed distracted.kikibalt wrote:
I have to put my two cent here about a fighter showing heart, my son Frankie showed me more heart that I thought he had when he fought Juan Escobar, you that have seen that fight, I think would agree with me.
Frankie after the Escobar fight...
The announcers were already writing Frankie off and almost seemed to expect Frankie to be knocked out. A fighter with heart should never be counted out. Frankie was still in the fight and in the fourth or fifth round landed a solid right hook that shook Escobar and was the beginning of Frankie's comeback in the fight. He found his range.
My plan was to write a review on my website alongside the video but I have just not been able to upload the video to youtube or any other site. I'll be reviewing this fight soon. This fight contains my favorite fighting word: Heart! Frankie wears that word quite well and to be fair so does Escobar. That's what made it a great fight.
I was always a fan of both Frankie and Tony back in the days when they were both fighting. Both of them were good, tough durable fighters that gave their all. They never got the titles they wanted. That's okay, they gave championship performances when it counted. They're in good company with guys like Armando Muniz, Yaqui Lopez, Indian Red Lopez, George Chuvalo, Charley Burley and the Quarry brother, Jerry and Mike. I'd say that's damned good company to be in. They can both hold their heads up proudly, their fans remember them.
Frank, I think we would all be interested in what was going through yourmind while you were in the corner, especially during the early rounds.
Randy![]()


Collins2000 wrote:That is an awesome photo!kikibalt wrote:
Ernie "Red' Lopez
I hope you enjoy and join us here Ron/Rob....Ron C wrote:Collins2000 wrote:That is an awesome photo!kikibalt wrote:
Ernie "Red' Lopez
That is a cool photo! I still can't get over the open book story on Ernie's last fight.


Frank, as you well know, both the Saldivar-Rojas, and Saijyo-Rojas title fights were held at the L.A. Coliseum. I had the luck of being at both. In the first bout in '65, Rojas was a 22-year-old challenger about to suffer his first loss to the 23-year-old champ Saldivar. However, in the second fight, he was the defending WBA 126lb. king and would lose his title to Japan's Saijyo. On that same card, Rojas stablemate, 19-year-old Mando Ramos would lose his first bid to win the lightweight title from Teo Cruz. Raul Rojas' two appearances at the Coliseum were two of his toughest fights, his first two defeats.kikibalt wrote:Rick,
I have the Rojas/Saldivar fight, plus Rojas vs Shozo Saijo and vs Yoshiaki Numata
Thanks to both Roger and Frank. To be honest Rog, back in the 60's Viking Deportes really didn't have a lot to choose from either. I expected they would have more. I used to find what I wanted and needed, but I ended up getting a better deal and selection on equipment from a guy who would bring up it up from Mexico. He lived in South L.A. and I could get Casanova training gloves for $10 a pair, so why drive to TJ?kikibalt wrote:
Rick,
A pic. of Deports Viking, courtesy of Diego.
Bennie, I became a Saldivar fan the night I saw him whip Rojas, whom I knew was a quality fighter. I followed his latter title defenses against Winstone, Seki, Robertson, etc. The Winstone fights were well publicized in the boxing mags, and I'd read all I could about Howard Winstone. In those days, my bedroom walls were plastered with fight photos, posters, anything to do with fights. I came across a great portrait of Winstone in a fighting stance which I hung on the wall, along with photos I'd clipped from mags from his Saldivar fights. I need to see a video of Winstone one day.bennie wrote:Saldivar's early death was a shock to me because he was renowned for his fitness as a fighter, an incredibly low pulse rate. I suppose neither was going to protect his liver.Rick Farris wrote:kikibalt wrote:Vincente Saldivar — A Mexican Legend
photo courtesy
David Martinez
By Jim Amato
The 1960’s spawned many great fighters. Dick Tiger, Jose Torres, Emile Griffith, Luis Rodriguiz and Carlos Ortiz just to name a few. One of the best of this era was a 5′ 3″ southpaw from Mexico City named Vincente Saldivar. He ruled the featherweight division for three years and then retired. He decided to come back and two and a half years after he gave up his crown, he re-claimed it.
This boxing legend was born on March 5, 1943. He started his professional career in 1961 and quickly showed that he was a budding star. Saldivar won his first sixteen fights and scored thirteen knockouts. He suffered his first loss in December of 1962 when he was disqualified in a bout against Baby Luis.
The year 1963 saw Saldivar make great strides in the rankings. He halted the respected Dwight Hawkins in five rounds. He avenged his loss by stopping Baby Luis in eight rounds. There was also an impressive one round win over Eloy Sanchez.
On February 8, 1964 Saldivar captured the Mexican featherweight title by knocking out Juan Rameriz in two rounds. He defended the title with a twelve round points win over tough Eduardo ” Lalo ” Guerrero. Then on June 1st Vincente won a very important bout against future lightweight champion Ismael Laguna. Saldivar outscored the clever Laguna in ten rounds.
On September 26, 1964 Vincente Saldivar won the featherweight championship of the world. He battered the great champion Sugar Ramos and the bout ended in the twelfth round with a new champion being crowned. Saldivar was about to begin a campaign that eliminated all opposition to his throne. He started in 1965 by wearing down and finally stopping his game challenger Raul Rojas in the final round. In his next defense Vincente turned back the fierce challenge of Welshman Howard Winstone in fifteen rounds. These two would get to know each other very well over the next few years.
Saldivar opened 1966 with a two round kayo over Floyd Robertson. Next Vincente faced the stern challenge of Japan’s Mitsunori Seki. For the Japanese tiger, it would be his third shot at a world’s title. He failed in a 1961 bid to dethrone flyweight champion Pone Kingpetch and in 1964 he was beaten in six rounds by featherweight king Sugar Ramos. Seki gave Saldivar all he could handle but in the Vincente pounded out a decision victory.
Seki and Saldivar would meet again in 1967 and this time Vincente left no doubt to his claim to the title ending Seki’s challenge in the seventh round. Next was some unfinished business with Mr. Winstone. Again the spry and crafty Welshman traveled the fifteen round distance but in the end he fell short. The two bouts between Saldivar and Winstone were close enough to justify a third meeting. This time Saldivar ruled supreme ending Winstone’s dream in the twelfth round.
With really no one left to seriously challenge Vincente, he decided to retire. Quickly the World Boxing Council matched Saldivar’s two toughest challengers, Howard Winstone and Mitsunori Seki for the vacant title. On January 23, 1968 Howard Winstone finally got his championship beating Seki in nine rounds. Howard’s stay at the top was short lived as he lost the title to Spain’s Jose Legra in five rounds.
Finally there was some new blood in the division. Legra in turn would lose his crown by decision to Australia’s Johnny Famechon. Saldivar still felt he was the best featherweight in the world so he embarked on a come back. To prove he was worthy of a title shot he out fought Legra to win a ten round verdict. Then on May 9, 1970 in Rome, Italy Vincente met the champion Famechon. The Aussie was a very good fighter who had just sent the great Fighting Harada into retirement with a brutal fourteenth round kayo. Against Saldivar he was out boxed and out fought but gamely went the distance. The great Saldivar was king again.
It all came crashing down in his next fight. Vincente took on Japan’s Kuniaki Shibata. It seemed like Vincente grew old overnight. At times he boxed well and punched sharply but at other times seemed overwhelmed by the force of Shibata’s attacks. The Japanese fighter was very strong and try as he might, Vincente was unable to hold him off. Finally it was over. It ended in the thirteenth round. The reign of Saldivar was over.
Maybe Vincente was not yet convinced he was through or maybe he wanted to go out a winner. Anyway Saldivar returned to the ring seven months later and outpointed the always tough Frankie Crawford. Then two years later Saldivar again emerged to attempt to regain his throne. Former bantamweight champion Eder Jofre of Brazil had won recognition by the W.B.C. as featherweight champion by winning a majority decision over Jose Legra in May of 1973. Vincente would meet Jofre on October 21, 1973 in Brazil. What looked to be a great match up on paper turned out to be a bitter disappointment. Saldivar had nothing left. His great skills had eroded. Jofre was too strong and too powerful for the shell of this once great fighting machine. It ended in the fourth round and so did Saldivar’s career. There would be no more comebacks.
Vincente only had forty fights in his career. He won thirty seven of them. He was a knockout winner on twenty six occasions. He was the whole package in his prime. Pound for pound he was one of the best fighters in the 60’s.
Saldivar is almost forgotten. I had the opportunity of watching him defeat Raul Rojas in his first defense of the World Featherweight title, at the L.A. Coliseum in 1965. On the undercard, my stablemate, a heavyweight Nat'l Golden Gloves champ, Jerry Quarry, made his pro debut. Saldivar and Rojas busted each other up pretty good, but it was Saldivar who retained his title, stopping Raul in the 15th round.
Vicente's last fight against Eder Jofre, took place in my wife Monica's hometown of Salvador, Bahia, Brazil.
At the recent WBHOF banquet, Raul Rojas took his place on the dias with the rest of the legends. A former world champ himself, Rojas was a helluva fighter in his day. I fought on the undercard of two his past prime losses, to my stablemate Ruben Navarro, and a few months later to his former stablemate, Mando Ramos. Seeing Raul recently was not a happy moment. Confined to his wheel chair and barely aware of his surroundings, Rojas' eyes would light up when a familiar face would approach him. His head was bandaged from some sort recent injury.
Sometimes the ride on the way down can be Hell. As for Saldivar, I know he liked to drink, and he passed away at a very young age (he was in his 40's).
-Rick Farris
Sadly, Winstone also basically drank himself to death.
Off the top of my head, Ernie's last fight (in the ring) came with our own John H. Stracey.Ron C wrote:Collins2000 wrote:That is an awesome photo!kikibalt wrote:
Ernie "Red' Lopez
That is a cool photo! I still can't get over the open book story on Ernie's last fight.
Randy always looks so content, and you can see why. A beautiful family.Randyman wrote:
At Lori and Tom's for Thanksgiving.
[/quote][/quote]Rick Farris wrote:
By the way, I also would read about bantam Alan Rudkin, how he was from Liverpool and supposedly went to school with a couple of the Beatles(?). I followed Rudkin's career from afar and finally saw him in person as he trained for his title fight with champ Ruben Olivares here in L.A. Although outgunned by the great Olivares, I liked what I saw in Rudkin and wonder if you have any memories or info on him. Is he around the boxing world at all today? Any updates?
-Rick
bennie wrote: Off the top of my head, Ernie's last fight (in the ring) came with our own John H. Stracey.

Barmy. Lopez had no business fighting in 1987.Ron C wrote:bennie wrote: Off the top of my head, Ernie's last fight (in the ring) came with our own John H. Stracey.
http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?t ... ght:248831
"Kenny Louis vs. Ernie Lopez
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1987-07-07 : Kenny Louis beat Ernie Lopez by KO in round 1 of 6
Location: Omni-Daisy Theatre, Memphis, Tennessee, USA
Ernie Red Lopez was a truck driver at this time, he read in the papers that there was a show and went with his old friend Jimmy Heair When he got to the arena Heair and the promoter Red Fortner talked him into fighting. "
I'm disappointed in Jimmy Heair.kikibalt wrote:Ernie Lopez's record
Alias Indian Red
Country USA
Global Id 11406
Division Welterweight
Born 1945-09-23
Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com
Date Opponent Location Result
1987-07-07 Kenny Louis Memphis, USA L KO 1
1974-10-29 John H Stracey Kensington, United Kingdo L TKO 7
1973-07-26 Armando Muniz Los Angeles, USA L TKO 7
1973-02-28 Jose Napoles Inglewood, USA L KO 7
WBC Welterweight Title
WBA Welterweight Title
1972-11-10 Jose Luis Baltazar Los Angeles, USA W KO 5
1972-10-12 Manuel Gonzalez Stateline, USA W RTD 5
1972-03-30 Emile Griffith Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1972-01-20 Sal Martinez Los Angeles, USA W TKO 3
1971-10-28 Oscar Albarado Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1971-09-16 Manuel Fierro Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1971-07-08 Danny Perez Los Angeles, USA W KO 2
1971-05-03 Emile Griffith Las Vegas, USA L MD 10
1971-01-20 Peter Cobblah Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1970-10-10 Cipriano Hernandez Woodland Hills, USA W UD 10
1970-08-03 Ruben Rivera Sacramento, USA W KO 6
1970-07-08 Manuel Avitia Las Vegas, USA W KO 8
1970-02-14 Jose Napoles Inglewood, USA L TKO 15
WBC Welterweight Title
WBA Welterweight Title
1969-10-04 Hedgemon Lewis Los Angeles, USA W TKO 10
1969-07-10 Hedgemon Lewis Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1969-03-13 Chucho Garcia Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1969-02-18 Brad Silas Los Angeles, USA W KO 1
1969-01-30 Raul Soriano Los Angeles, USA W TKO 9
1968-08-01 Polo Corona Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1968-07-18 Hedgemon Lewis Los Angeles, USA W TKO 9
1968-04-30 Gabe Terronez Fresno, USA W UD 12
1968-03-03 Raul Soriano Mexicali, Mexico L UD 10
1968-02-08 Bob Murray Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1967-11-20 Doug McLeod Las Vegas, USA W KO 4
1967-10-12 Jose Valenzuela Los Angeles, USA W TKO 10
1967-08-08 Musashi Nakano Nagoya, Japan W KO 3
1967-07-06 Andy Gonzalez Los Angeles, USA W KO 7
1967-06-13 Phil Robinson Honolulu, USA W PTS 10
1967-05-22 Ed McGruder Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1967-04-20 Frank Jennings Los Angeles, USA W TKO 8
1967-03-27 Johnny Brooks Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1967-03-06 Benito Juarez Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1966-12-12 Adolph Pruitt Las Vegas, USA L UD 10
1966-09-19 Johnny Brooks Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1966-08-22 Johnny Brooks Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1966-06-21 Tito Marshall Las Vegas, USA W UD 10
1966-05-09 Jose Stable Las Vegas, USA W UD 10
1966-04-04 Johnny Brooks Las Vegas, USA W PTS 12
1966-02-28 Al Grant Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1966-02-14 Mel Fields Las Vegas, USA W KO 3
1966-01-31 Memo Lopez Las Vegas, USA W KO 6
1966-01-17 Al Andrews Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1965-12-20 Pulga Serrano Las Vegas, USA W TKO 4
1965-12-06 Armand Laurenco Laurinco Las Vegas, USA W KO 1
1965-11-09 Armand Laurenco Laurinco Las Vegas, USA D PTS 6
1965-11-01 Billy Marsh Las Vegas, USA W PTS 6
1964-12-22 Don Minor Las Vegas, USA L UD 12
1964-10-19 Chappell Funnye Santa Monica, USA W KO 8
1964-09-29 Bernie Magallanes Las Vegas, USA W PTS 6
1964-07-04 Jesse Armenta Hermosillo, Mexico L KO 9
1964-06-12 Joe Clark Las Vegas, USA W PTS 6
1964-03-30 Andres Herrera Santa Monica, USA W PTS 6
1964-03-10 George Green Las Vegas, USA W KO 5
1964-03-03 Trini Lopez North Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1964-02-13 Mickey Davitt Los Angeles, USA W KO 1
1964-02-04 Carl Moore Las Vegas, USA W KO 3
1964-01-21 Armand Laurenco Laurinco Las Vegas, USA W PTS 6
Record to Date
Won 47 (KOs 23) Lost 13 Drawn 1 Total 61