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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 11:59
by scartissue
Is Fritzie wearing a syrup? Anyway, Fritzie was never disqualified in a career spanning 230 fights, which shows you how clever he was.
Long after retirement, author Pete Heller, in his book 'In this Corner', asked for Zivic's opinion on the newest crop of fighters. Fritzie looked glum. "These young kids are so inexperienced," he said, "they think the laces are for tying up the gloves."[/quote]

It looks like it, Bennie. My cockney mate Dave Westcott would say, he's wearing an "Irish", as in Irish jig- "Wig". Syrup is a new one to me, can you explain?

-Rick[/quote]

Syrup of figs.[/quote]

Dude, Rick and I are on the same page, I was trying to figure it out too. That is one odd looking piece of roadkill he's got on and I knew you were referring to it. I asked my wife what was your reference to 'syrup' and even she couldn't figure it out and she's pretty reliable regarding rhyming slang. I asked her what she would have called it back home and she said, "All I would have said was, 'Look at the f*****g thing he's wearing!" I should mention my wife is from Belfast.

Scartissue

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 12:22
by bennie
This Saturday at the ExCeL Arena in east London, Enzo Maccarinelli looks to bounce back from his two-round defeat at the hands of David Haye in their cruiserweight unification showdown last March, also in east London.
Big Enzo never got started against the heavy-handed Haye for WBC, WBA and WBO titles at the 02 Arena and was rescued smartly as Haye teed off with right hands. Something of a slow starter, Enzo consoles himself with the fact Haye has since made heavyweight his home. Plus, it wasn't one of those long, punishing defeats. The future actually looks bright for the talented, big-hitting Swansea giant, still only 28, who was on an eight-year winning run up to Haye and now takes on Puerto Rican substitute Francisco Alvarez for the WBO title made vacant by Haye.
Maccarinelli was due to face unbeaten American Jonathon Banks for the vacant title, but Banks pulled out a few days ago with an ankle injury and a whole host of opponents have been proposed for the Welshman since, from Clinton Woods to Herbie Hide. Hey! Even Emile Griffith may have got a mention. He still wants revenge over a Brit for the Minter thing and has filled out nicely.
In the event the little-known Alvarez takes the money, an inexperienced but fast-starting fighter who has won eight of his 12 fights inside three rounds and lost just the once: to dangerous and unbeaten Russian cruiserweight Alexander Alexeev in four rounds last year. That was actually in Puerto Rico, and the suitably humbled Alvarez has since chanced his arm at light-heavyweight, although this smacks of a better chance for redemption. Anyway, he is 31 but a long-time amateur and a tad more seasoned than his 12 fights suggest. He got in eight timely rounds with a decision over someone called Victor Paz in October.
No matter. Maccarinelli just looks too big, too quick, too powerful for him.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 12:31
by dagosd2000
Rick Farris wrote:Hey Roger . . .

I'll give you a call when Monica and I plan to go to TJ. We'd really like to get together with you and Maria, and nobody knows TJ like you so I'll be seeing better than ever. Why don't we just give the women a handful of money and they can go shop while we relax at the BOOM-BOOM Room? :TU:

-Rick
Rick
Not a bad idea except that they tore down the Boom Boom Club 40 years ago. But I know of a few other spots. Rog :D

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 13:35
by Rick Farris
bennie wrote:This Saturday at the ExCeL Arena in east London, Enzo Maccarinelli looks to bounce back from his two-round defeat at the hands of David Haye in their cruiserweight unification showdown last March, also in east London.
Big Enzo never got started against the heavy-handed Haye for WBC, WBA and WBO titles at the 02 Arena and was rescued smartly as Haye teed off with right hands. Something of a slow starter, Enzo consoles himself with the fact Haye has since made heavyweight his home. Plus, it wasn't one of those long, punishing defeats. The future actually looks bright for the talented, big-hitting Swansea giant, still only 28, who was on an eight-year winning run up to Haye and now takes on Puerto Rican substitute Francisco Alvarez for the WBO title made vacant by Haye.
Maccarinelli was due to face unbeaten American Jonathon Banks for the vacant title, but Banks pulled out a few days ago with an ankle injury and a whole host of opponents have been proposed for the Welshman since, from Clinton Woods to Herbie Hide. Hey! Even Emile Griffith may have got a mention. He still wants revenge over a Brit for the Minter thing and has filled out nicely.
In the event the little-known Alvarez takes the money, an inexperienced but fast-starting fighter who has won eight of his 12 fights inside three rounds and lost just the once: to dangerous and unbeaten Russian cruiserweight Alexander Alexeev in four rounds last year. That was actually in Puerto Rico, and the suitably humbled Alvarez has since chanced his arm at light-heavyweight, although this smacks of a better chance for redemption. Anyway, he is 31 but a long-time amateur and a tad more seasoned than his 12 fights suggest. He got in eight timely rounds with a decision over someone called Victor Paz in October.
No matter. Maccarinelli just looks too big, too quick, too powerful for him.

Bennie . . . Although this saturday my focus will be on Oscar and Pac, I'm also interested in Amir Khan's return after his KO loss. I'm not familiar with his opponent, but from what I've read he seems like confidence builder.

-Rick

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 13:42
by bennie
Rick Farris wrote:
bennie wrote:This Saturday at the ExCeL Arena in east London, Enzo Maccarinelli looks to bounce back from his two-round defeat at the hands of David Haye in their cruiserweight unification showdown last March, also in east London.
Big Enzo never got started against the heavy-handed Haye for WBC, WBA and WBO titles at the 02 Arena and was rescued smartly as Haye teed off with right hands. Something of a slow starter, Enzo consoles himself with the fact Haye has since made heavyweight his home. Plus, it wasn't one of those long, punishing defeats. The future actually looks bright for the talented, big-hitting Swansea giant, still only 28, who was on an eight-year winning run up to Haye and now takes on Puerto Rican substitute Francisco Alvarez for the WBO title made vacant by Haye.
Maccarinelli was due to face unbeaten American Jonathon Banks for the vacant title, but Banks pulled out a few days ago with an ankle injury and a whole host of opponents have been proposed for the Welshman since, from Clinton Woods to Herbie Hide. Hey! Even Emile Griffith may have got a mention. He still wants revenge over a Brit for the Minter thing and has filled out nicely.
In the event the little-known Alvarez takes the money, an inexperienced but fast-starting fighter who has won eight of his 12 fights inside three rounds and lost just the once: to dangerous and unbeaten Russian cruiserweight Alexander Alexeev in four rounds last year. That was actually in Puerto Rico, and the suitably humbled Alvarez has since chanced his arm at light-heavyweight, although this smacks of a better chance for redemption. Anyway, he is 31 but a long-time amateur and a tad more seasoned than his 12 fights suggest. He got in eight timely rounds with a decision over someone called Victor Paz in October.
No matter. Maccarinelli just looks too big, too quick, too powerful for him.

Bennie . . . Although this saturday my focus will be on Oscar and Pac, I'm also interested in Amir Khan's return after his KO loss. I'm not familiar with his opponent, but from what I've read he seems like confidence builder.

-Rick
Oisin Fagan is tough but light-hitting - a perfect opponent for comebacking Khan.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 13:44
by bennie
I posted this recently, Rick:


Amir Khan launches a comeback on Saturday at the ExCeL Arena in east London against gutsy Irishman Oisin Fagan, scheduled for 12 rounds.
The much-vaunted, much-hyped Khan, a former Olympic silver medallist, suffered a disastrous first-round knockout at the hands of Colombian bogeyman Breidis Prescott in September in Manchester, losing his unbeaten record into the bargain. Unsurprisingly, it was his first - and last - fight for Cuban trainer Jorge Rubio, who had recommended Prescott as an opponent (ouch!). Now trained by leading American guru Freddie Roach, Khan is still only 21 so there is plenty of time to rebuild him. He needs to tighten up his defence, obviously, and pace himself and 'think' more in there. Khan rushed straight out and traded with a fast starter and a proven puncher in Prescott, who had 15 wins inside three rounds. Two knockdowns later...
Khan's chin, or lack of it, poses a bigger quandry for Roach. Khan was matched with a succession of non-punchers prior to Prescott and still went down a few times. Then he meets a genuine puncher and is destroyed, all over in 54 seconds - Prescott even hurt Khan with a jab. Who knows? The unbeaten Prescott might turn out to be really good (and is now highly ranked in the world).
To the 34-year-old Fagan (pushing 35), a Dubliner who never boxed as an amateur and comes in with a brawler's reputation and a record of 22-5 (13), much of it compiled in the States, although he fights out of the notorious Oklahoma circuit, notorious for its tank towns and fighting gas station attendants, and beaten nobody of any note. One of his victims, Oklahoma City's Lee Cargle, lost to Duke McKenzie 22 years ago. Fagan did go in with former IBF lightweight champ Paul Spadafora last year in Michigan and was outscored on a split decision after 10 rounds, a decent enough performance, although southpaw Spadafora looked to have won clearly. Julio Cesar Chavez Junior, renowned as a 'protected' fighter, also outscored Fagan back in 2004 in Las Vegas. Chavez makes even Khan look old. Tulsa's Isaac Mendoza stopped Fagan in four rounds in 2003, the only time Fagan has been stopped.
Importantly for Team Khan, Fagan is not a puncher. In fact he looks the perfect opponent for Khan at this delicate stage of the Bolton youngster's career: short and tough and raw and aggressive and brave. Khan is much the bigger man, much the younger man and much the better boxer. His hands are so fast they appear as a blur in the ring. He boxes his way to a morale-boosting decision.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 16:57
by kikibalt
Image
Marvin Johnson and Paul Gonzalez

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 16:59
by kikibalt
Image

Image

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 17:08
by Rick Farris
scartissue wrote:Is Fritzie wearing a syrup? Anyway, Fritzie was never disqualified in a career spanning 230 fights, which shows you how clever he was.
Long after retirement, author Pete Heller, in his book 'In this Corner', asked for Zivic's opinion on the newest crop of fighters. Fritzie looked glum. "These young kids are so inexperienced," he said, "they think the laces are for tying up the gloves."
It looks like it, Bennie. My cockney mate Dave Westcott would say, he's wearing an "Irish", as in Irish jig- "Wig". Syrup is a new one to me, can you explain?

-Rick[/quote]

Syrup of figs.[/quote]

Dude, Rick and I are on the same page, I was trying to figure it out too. That is one odd looking piece of roadkill he's got on and I knew you were referring to it. I asked my wife what was your reference to 'syrup' and even she couldn't figure it out and she's pretty reliable regarding rhyming slang. I asked her what she would have called it back home and she said, "All I would have said was, 'Look at the f*****g thing he's wearing!" I should mention my wife is from Belfast.

Scartissue[/quote]


Hey Scar . . . I like Angela's reference. A quick KO for Belfast!

-Rick

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 17:13
by Rick Farris
bennie wrote:I posted this recently, Rick:


Amir Khan launches a comeback on Saturday at the ExCeL Arena in east London against gutsy Irishman Oisin Fagan, scheduled for 12 rounds.
The much-vaunted, much-hyped Khan, a former Olympic silver medallist, suffered a disastrous first-round knockout at the hands of Colombian bogeyman Breidis Prescott in September in Manchester, losing his unbeaten record into the bargain. Unsurprisingly, it was his first - and last - fight for Cuban trainer Jorge Rubio, who had recommended Prescott as an opponent (ouch!). Now trained by leading American guru Freddie Roach, Khan is still only 21 so there is plenty of time to rebuild him. He needs to tighten up his defence, obviously, and pace himself and 'think' more in there. Khan rushed straight out and traded with a fast starter and a proven puncher in Prescott, who had 15 wins inside three rounds. Two knockdowns later...
Khan's chin, or lack of it, poses a bigger quandry for Roach. Khan was matched with a succession of non-punchers prior to Prescott and still went down a few times. Then he meets a genuine puncher and is destroyed, all over in 54 seconds - Prescott even hurt Khan with a jab. Who knows? The unbeaten Prescott might turn out to be really good (and is now highly ranked in the world).
To the 34-year-old Fagan (pushing 35), a Dubliner who never boxed as an amateur and comes in with a brawler's reputation and a record of 22-5 (13), much of it compiled in the States, although he fights out of the notorious Oklahoma circuit, notorious for its tank towns and fighting gas station attendants, and beaten nobody of any note. One of his victims, Oklahoma City's Lee Cargle, lost to Duke McKenzie 22 years ago. Fagan did go in with former IBF lightweight champ Paul Spadafora last year in Michigan and was outscored on a split decision after 10 rounds, a decent enough performance, although southpaw Spadafora looked to have won clearly. Julio Cesar Chavez Junior, renowned as a 'protected' fighter, also outscored Fagan back in 2004 in Las Vegas. Chavez makes even Khan look old. Tulsa's Isaac Mendoza stopped Fagan in four rounds in 2003, the only time Fagan has been stopped.
Importantly for Team Khan, Fagan is not a puncher. In fact he looks the perfect opponent for Khan at this delicate stage of the Bolton youngster's career: short and tough and raw and aggressive and brave. Khan is much the bigger man, much the younger man and much the better boxer. His hands are so fast they appear as a blur in the ring. He boxes his way to a morale-boosting decision.
Bennie, I did read this. Forgot where I'd read the info but it was here. As you say, a great choice, a guy who likely won't test his chin yet one that will make him fight. Thanks for reposting the story

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 20:53
by Randyman
Rick Farris wrote:
bennie wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Image

Fritzie Zivic

Image
Is Fritzie wearing a syrup? Anyway, Fritzie was never disqualified in a career spanning 230 fights, which shows you how clever he was.
Long after retirement, author Pete Heller, in his book 'In this Corner', asked for Zivic's opinion on the newest crop of fighters. Fritzie looked glum. "These young kids are so inexperienced," he said, "they think the laces are for tying up the gloves."
It looks like it, Bennie. My cockney mate Dave Westcott would say, he's wearing an "Irish", as in Irish jig- "Wig". Syrup is a new one to me, can you explain?

-Rick
I'm just guessing but "syrup of figs" is probably thick and gooey like molasses, and the term probably comes from the fact that it looks like it was poured on to the top of the head. Actually, it doesn't really take that much guess work, Fritzie's "Hair" really does look like it was poured on. I can only imagine what it must have been like listening to Fritzie give a speech. It had to be hard to focus on anything but that rug. Poor Fritzie.

Has anyone else ever noticed that the guys that fought with the roughest and dirtiest styles and the meanest attitudes turned out to have the warmest smiles when they got older? Maybe it's because they left it all in the ring. Look at LaMotta and Duran. They spent their whole careers, sneering and snarling, just to end up a couple of teddy bears.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 21:09
by Randyman
kikibalt wrote:Image
Jesse Benivides, now there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Jesse was a good little boxer, fighting in the 80's and 90's. Early on it seemed like he had real potential but he never seemed to reach the next level. Always lost to the top competition.

I was at the Arrowhead Pond when he fought Marco Antonio Barrera in what turned out to be his last fight. He was stopped in the 3rd round that night. What ever happened to him?

Randy

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 21:13
by Randyman
kikibalt wrote:Image
This one's a real heartbreaker. Such a contrast in fortunes. Two former stablemates. Ex featherweight champ Raul Rojas and ex lightweight boss Rodolfo Gonzalez, with Rick Farris and Rodolfo's lady Barb Cornell looking on.
A heartbreaker indeed! :verysad:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 21:20
by Randyman
scartissue wrote:
bennie wrote:Beryl was a bit before my time, Dan, but I know she added some glamour to the domestic fight scene and apparently had a fabulous pair of lungs. She was Mine Host of The Becket, and that, along with her ample charms, was probably enough to make her a big boxing name.
I hope I am not doing her a massive disservice.
"Ample", "Big", "Massive"?! You are a funny dude, Bennie. I'm going to have to scrounge up a picture of her now and try to post it.

Scartissue
Bennie has an eye for the ladies, that's for sure. Very descriptive.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 21:33
by Randyman
dagosd2000 wrote:Quote from DeLaHoya /Pacquiao 24/7

Freddie Roach:I've worked with Oscar. He's not a real confident guy."
Freddie's a good guy. I talked to him at the Hall of Fame dinner. I went up to him and said "How you doing Freddie?" He was very nice. I said you don't know me but you know my cousin fairly well." "I do?" What's his name?" I said "Louie Burke." He smiled, then laughed and I could see from the expression on his face that he was remembering his fights with my cousin. He said "Louie Burke, how is he?" "Louie's doing pretty good now, he's a training fighters in Las Cruces?" He said "Make sure you tell him I said hello" Then someone whisked him away. I forgot to take a picture.

I disagree with his assessment of Oscar but I think Freddie is a class act. I will definitely be pulling for Oscar.

Randy

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 21:59
by dagosd2000
WAITING FOR THE ELEVATOR


The old champ had his face against the elevator door.
"I'm lost. Where am I ?"
"We'll be going up stairs in a minute."
"Will we eat?"
"Yes"
"Good, I'm hungry."
"Stand back. I hear the elevator."
The old champ looked behind him and then stepped back. The elevator doors opened in front of him.
"Do I go in?",asked the old champ.
"Yes,this is where you get on."
"Are we going up?"
"Yes."
"Are we going to eat up there?"
"Yes. They're waiting for you."
"Good,"said the old champ."I'm lost. I don't know where I am."
"Follow me onto the elevator. You'll be all right."
The elavator doors closed behind them. I thought about the old champ. I thought about his fights with the Cubans. He was very brave then. He fought with everything inside him.

Now he was scared waiting for an elevator. I saw him sign a picture for some guy in the lobby. It was when Paret died. The old champ signed his name on it like it was nothing.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 22:12
by Rick Farris
Randyman wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Quote from DeLaHoya /Pacquiao 24/7

Freddie Roach:I've worked with Oscar. He's not a real confident guy."
Freddie's a good guy. I talked to him at the Hall of Fame dinner. I went up to him and said "How you doing Freddie?" He was very nice. I said you don't know me but you know my cousin fairly well." "I do?" What's his name?" I said "Louie Burke." He smiled, then laughed and I could see from the expression on his face that he was remembering his fights with my cousin. He said "Louie Burke, how is he?" "Louie's doing pretty good now, he's a training fighters in Las Cruces?" He said "Make sure you tell him I said hello" Then someone whisked him away. I forgot to take a picture.

I disagree with his assessment of Oscar but I think Freddie is a class act. I will definitely be pulling for Oscar.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Randy, I usually pull for Oscar. This time I'm pulling for Pac. Actually, I'm pulling for Freddie. I have no issues, except, the Davey-Goliath principle. I would enjoy seeing Manny bust up Oscar, see DLH on camera afterwards crediting Manny for a great win, announce him the latest "Golden Boy Ambassador", and then cash in on ELA vs. MANILA II. However, I have NEVER discounted the explosive punching power of Oscar De LA Hoya. I have no idea what to expect, except a very worthwhile fight to watch.

-Rick

Randy

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 22:16
by kikibalt
Arum wants to make boxing more visible

Image
Ethan Miller / Getty Images
Bob Arum, left, photographed with Manny Pacquiao on Tuesday in Las Vegas, is working on a pilot program designed to bring boxing back to network television.
Promoter says getting fights back on network television is key to keeping the sport popular.

By Bill Dwyre

Reporting from Las Vegas -- Boxing has quietly undertaken a pilot program that, in the face of competition from mixed martial arts, may serve as a business model for its future.

Promoter Bob Arum of Top Rank said recently that a series of events now working well in Mexico may be the key to his sport's future. That future is bringing boxing back onto network television and getting a boost in audience with over-the-air presentations, rather than relying on cable and pay-per-view.

On Jan. 27, 2007, for its show from the Honda Center in Anaheim -- one that featured popular Mexican fighter Jorge Arce, as well as rising American star Kelly Pavlik -- Arum and fellow Top Rank executive Fernando Beltran gave the fight broadcast signal free to Mexican Azteca television.

The ratings turned out to be surprisingly good.

"We thought boxing was pretty much dead down there, ever since Julio Cesar Chavez stopped," Arum said. "We were surprised."

That led to stop No. 2 in the experiment, a Sept. 16, 2007 show at the Hard Rock Casino in Las Vegas. That also featured Arce, as well as appearances by Mexican entertainment stars.

It was Mexican Independence Day, and the boxing was going head to head on Azteca with one of Televisa's high-rating, ultra-popular Telenovelas, or soap operas.

"We didn't beat them, and we didn't expect to," Arum said. "But we got something like 40% of the audience."

That convinced Arum, and others in boxing, that there might be a future in getting back to the days of network telecasts of the likes of the Pabst Blue Ribbon fight of the week and the Gillette Friday night fights. The success in Mexico triggered regular shows on Azteca, called "Latin Fury," that have continued to bring good ratings.

"Some days, we beat soccer in Mexico," Arum said.

The economics of that, of course, are tricky. Networks long ago stopped paying rights fees for boxing shows. But networks are open to having boxing purchase that time, and Arum thinks that is do-able, by marketing the package to sponsors to cover costs.

He sees this as a way to get boxing in front of millions of additional people, those who either don't have cable or don't buy pay-per-view fights.

He used the heavyweight division, once the backbone of the sport and the attraction that kept it on the front pages of sports sections, as his example.

"When kids are growing up now, they see basketball and football, and that's what excites them," he said. "If they saw as much boxing, more of them would try it.

"Think of LeBron James, going against those Ukrainian guys [the heavyweight champion Klitschko brothers, Wladimir and Vaitali]. What a show that would be.

"That's what we have to get back to."

Dwyre is a Times staff writer.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 22:33
by kikibalt
The Jewels In Jerry’s Crown: Quarry at his very best

By Mike Casey -

When you got past the marriage problems, the managerial changes and the hard luck circumstances, you came upon the greatest problem of all with the talented Jerry Quarry: his head. What went on in Jerry’s mind was always the major factor, the greatest frustration, the toughest opponent.

In his straight talking way, boxing’s eternal Comeback Kid from the Los Angeles suburb of Bellflower always acknowledged his biggest failing. After boxing with admirable prudence and restraint to score his greatest victory over the dangerous Ron Lyle in 1973, Quarry sat in his dressing room and jabbed a finger at the tough old melon atop his muscled shoulders and thick neck. “The big difference with me as a fighter now is right here,” he said..

Ah, but it wasn’t. Not really. And we probably wouldn’t have loved him half as much if it had been. Jerry’s volatility was the principal and oddly loveable reason for his magnetism. We kept tuning into the next episode because we had to see whether he would finally put the pieces together and cross the finishing line.

In the crucial fights of his career, Quarry belied his undoubted ring intelligence by employing the wrong tactics when his fierce pride gridlocked his fighting brain. He was the thoughtful counter puncher who chose to slug it out with the prime slugger of the age in Joe Frazier. He was too careful and too patient with smart cookie Jimmy Ellis.

But it was never as simple as that with Jerry. Aside from the strategic errors, there was ill fortune and the occasionally unfathomable. He was the victim of genuine bad luck in his first fight with Muhammad Ali and ambushed by the downright bizarre in his stunning loss to George Chuvalo.

Even on his winning nights, Jerry would sometimes look listless and distracted, as if his opponent was the least of his tormentors. Like poor old Jacob Marley in ‘A Christmas Carol’, one imagined Quarry dragging a great chain in his wake for his sins.

Colourful

Jerry Quarry was a colourful, good-looking Southern Californian of Irish descent, whose erratic ring form constantly bewildered his critics and even his most ardent fans. He would counter exasperating defeats with spectacular victories and send his supporters yo-yoing from joy to despair and back again.

He seemed to relish being written off, for that was when he produced his greatest performances. Praise and acceptance seemed to have the reverse effect, bringing out the negative side of his personality and shattering his ambitions at the most untimely moments.

From the beginning of his career, Quarry was hailed as a potentially great heavyweight, and on his better days he justified such praise by beating some of the finest men in the business. Again and again, he manoeuvred himself tantalisingly close to the world championship, only to stumble and fall in the crucial fights. He could win the pennant but he could never make it through the play-offs.

Such setbacks reminded us of the only real chink in Quarry’s armour: the jumbled mind that all too frequently jammed the controls of an otherwise formidable fighting machine. That mind would only become unclogged when penetrated by harsh criticism or the implication that its owner didn’t have what it takes. Then Jerry would shake himself down and show the world his great talent.

Quarry’s failure to reach the pinnacle of his profession is an everlasting tribute to his incredible allure. He possessed that special charisma that the gods normally reserve for only a handful of champions. When a certain boxing publication conducted a popularity poll of past and present day fighters in the early seventies, Quarry’s name ranked alongside those of Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano and Muhammad Ali.

Jerry’s inconsistency could be infuriating, yet his chances against any man could never be discounted. His disciples kept the faith because Quarry always seemed on the verge of catching fire and realising his magnificent potential.

He had all the necessary physical attributes at his disposal. He looked every inch a fighter, a rock of a man with a thick chest, powerful shoulders and solid legs. He had a powerful punch and a good chin. He was tough and rugged, very much the All-American boy in his early days with his close cropped hair and crooked smile.

But the rain clouds always seemed to home in on Jerry. Inevitably, he inherited the ‘Great White Hope’ mantle, with which he felt genuinely uncomfortable. There was the hate mail from obsessive fans who expected too much. There was the family and in-laws who trailed along with him to all his fights.

The story goes that father Jack Quarry laced gloves on Jerry when his son was just five years of age. When other kids bullied him, Jerry would stand his ground and fight back. As an amateur, he once said, “I feel a great challenge every time I get into the ring. I feel that I am fighting for my life and I must win.”

Let us not forget that Jerry Quarry did win a lot of important fights too, mostly as the underdog. He won them in style and he won them thrillingly. The Bellflower Belter at his very best was something to see.

Thad Spencer

Thad Spencer, out of Portland, Oregon, was the coming man. He had soared to number two in The Ring ratings and many believed he had the beating of Joe Frazier in the heavyweight scramble for supremacy that followed Muhammad Ali’s exile into limbo in 1967. While Muhammad would scrap with the Army draft board and the courts for the thick end of three years, the young tigers in his wake would chase the prized crown.

Spencer was a good stylist with a solid punch who had compiled a 32-5 record and accounted for the respected likes of Roger Rischer, Billy Daniels, Brian London, Doug Jones and Amos ‘Big Train’ Lincoln. There was nothing sensational about Thad, but he was knocking off the right men and getting the job done.

When the WBA organised its eight-man elimination tournament to find a successor to Ali, Spencer got off to a flyer with a unanimous win over the long-time leading contender, Ernie Terrell. Jerry Quarry, by contrast, only squeaked past former champ Floyd Patterson on a controversial decision.

Jerry was a 7 to 5 underdog when he squared off with Spencer on February 3, 1968. Thad was the heavier man by seven and a half pounds at 200 ½, but Quarry was a revelation as he systematically tore the Oregon man apart. The cheers and roars from the crowd of 12.110 thundered around the Oakland Arena as Jerry took control and set up an epic finish.

He floored Spencer in the fourth round with a looping left hook to the chin and again in the tenth with a short, chopping right to the jaw. In each case, there were only seconds remaining in the round as the crowd went wild. Referee Jack Downey, distracted by the cacophony of sound, continued counting to the mandatory eight on both occasions.

Quarry cut the coup de grace just as fine. There were just three seconds left in the twelfth and final round when he jumped on Thad like a tiger. Jerry lashed Spencer with a tremendous barrage of punches, but the significant blow was a big right to the head that set Thad wobbling and scattered him into no man’s land. Spencer tried to clutch and survive but he couldn’t shunt himself out of the line of fire as Quarry rifled lefts and rights to the head to force referee Downey’s stoppage.

Thad Spencer was never the same fighter again. He had eight more fights and lost them all.

Quarry was jubilant and spoke with the confidence of a man who was just weeks away from fulfilling his dream. “I just fought a smart fight and it paid off,” Jerry said. “He hit me one good shot in the whole fight, a left hook in the fifth round that hurt. I told everybody I’d prove I was faster than he was. I knocked him down with the right, which they said I didn’t have.”

Little more than two months later, Jerry was back at the Oakland Arena for the big one against crafty Jimmy Ellis. It was a fight that Quarry could have won and really should have won. You look at the tape even now and wonder why Jerry kept holding back in a close fight that was his for the taking. He still got a draw from judge Rudy Ortega, who saw it 6-6-3. But Elmer Costa scored it big for Ellis at 10-5, while former champ Fred Apostoli also had Jimmy winning by 7-5-3.

Quarry suffered a back injury and was in a body cast for weeks afterwards. It was the beginning of a long cycle of frustration.

Buster Mathis

By the time he got to big Buster Mathis on March 24, 1969, Jerry had done little to convince the fight fraternity that he had any new tricks. Ring editor Nat Fleischer admitted to giving up on him. Jerry had eased his way back since his back injury, posting four wins against modest opposition in Bob Mumford, Willis Earls, Charlie Reno and Aaron Eastling.

Mathis, a goliath of the age at 234 1/2lbs, was pitting his deceptively skilful bulk against Quarry’s 196. Buster was in the form of his life, having suffered just one defeat in his 30 fights, a brave and honourable loss to Joe Frazier at that. Buster was unfairly derided in some quarters for being something of a cartoon character, but he was a fine boxer and an immensely difficult man to knock over. Frazier had hacked at him for the best part of eleven rounds before finally felling him like a big oak tree.

Mathis had reeled off six victories since that derailment, including a bloody and emphatic points win over George Chuvalo just a month before meeting Quarry.

Buster was a 12 to 5 favourite over Jerry when they clashed at Madison Square Garden. The scuttlebutt on the fight beat was that Quarry was incapable of changing his style and would be picked off and possibly stopped by Mathis.

Jerry loved that kind of talk. It had the effect of a liberal shot of Scotch firing through his blood. From the opening bell, the cautious counter puncher turned downright vicious. Yet there was nothing reckless or needlessly cavalier about the boxing lesson that Quarry gave Mathis.

Establishing his authority from the outset with a charging two-fisted attack, Jerry settled down to fashion an aggressive but intelligent performance. Piece by piece, he took Buster apart, switching the attack from head to body and wearing down the big man’s body.

When Mathis split his black velvet trunks down the back in the second round, it was the least of his problems. A left hook to the side of the head from Quarry shuddered through Buster’s body and finally cut the right wire. Mathis hovered momentarily in his dazed state and then dropped to one knee near the ropes. Jerry saw his chance to end the fight early but was too eager in his subsequent attack and failed to find the payoff punch before the bell. He didn’t have the KO but he had Buster’s number.

It was a virtuoso performance on Quarry’s part. He capped it by bloodying Buster’s nose in the tenth and by dropping his hands and inviting the big man to hit him in the eleventh.

The fight wasn’t a shutout for Jerry, but it was the next best thing. Judges Jack Gordon and Tony Castellano tabbed it 10-1-1 for Quarry, while referee Johnny Colan saw it 9-2-1.

“A man that size has to be weak in the body and I just took advantage of it,” Quarry said.

Nat Fleischer certainly changed his opinion of Jerry, commenting, “I saw Quarry, a 12 to 5 second choice, take Buster Mathis apart the way a top flight automobile mechanic will unscramble the components of a delicately made Ferrari. Not that Buster is delicately made.”

Mac Foster

By the dawn of the seventies, Jerry Quarry had one foot in the last chance saloon as a major league player. What should have been a golden year in 1969 had gone steadily downhill after his masterful performance against Mathis, ending in disaster and near farce.

Jerry got it into his head that he could beat Joe Frazier in a head-to-head slugging match in an audacious bid for Joe’s version of the heavyweight championship. It was certainly a treat for the fans, and the opening frame of that memorable war went into the record books as the round of the year. But Quarry’s tactics against a great brawler in the prime of his life only served to bring Jerry the limited glory and lifespan of a kamikaze pilot. He was savagely beaten in seven rounds on a fiercely hot New York night and then thrown out into the cold six months later when he staggered into the surreal mire of George Chuvalo’s winter wonderland.

Seemingly heading for a points win, Quarry was knocked down by a Chuvalo haymaker in the seventh round, arose at the count of three, dropped back to his knee to clear his head and then missed referee Zach Clayton’s cry of ‘ten’. Man, did Jerry holler in his dressing room after that one. The entire world was against him.

When Quarry came into his fight against the highly touted Mac Foster at Madison Square Garden on June 17, 1970, the badly tarnished ‘Great White Hope’ had notched just two meaningless wins since the Chuvalo disaster. A second round bombing of the little known Rufus Brassell had been followed by a laboured points win over that tough old journeyman, George ‘Scrapiron’ Johnson.

Mac Foster was the new kid in town, all the way from Fresno, California, having won all of his 24 fights by knockout. Like his fellow prospect, the young George Foreman, Mac had feasted mainly on weak opposition, but he had vaulted to the number one spot in The Ring ratings. Some kind of tasty trailer invariably heralds the arrival of such a hot young heavyweight prospect, and the story about Foster was that he had reportedly knocked the ageing Sonny Liston unconscious during a sparring session.

Whatever the true quality of Mac’s credentials, he started a 7 to 5 favourite over Quarry, out-reached Jerry by nine inches and outweighed him by 14lbs.

But Foster was suddenly in New York, at the Mecca of boxing itself. Despite his lofty ranking, he was also taking his first dip into genuine world class. It was an entirely different scenario from the gentler fight towns of Fresno and Houston and the simpler business of knocking over the likes of the jaded Cleveland Williams.

Mac was cautious from the opening bell against Quarry. Keeping Jerry at bay with a raking, tentative jab, the bomber from Fresno kept his power in the locker. Only occasionally did he venture a left hook to the head, and Quarry quickly picked up the scent of fear and uncertainty. By the fourth round, Jerry had got his bearings and formulated the appropriate game plan. From the fourth round, he began to move in and attack Mac’s body with sudden flurries, looking to rough up the big man.

Foster seemed confused by Quarry’s raids, which included some meaty hooks to the body. Jerry worked busily on the inside in the fifth, softening his opponent and teeing him up for the big onslaught that would follow.

Quarry sensed the time was right in the sixth round and went to work in earnest. Foster’s ineffective jab was giving him no protection and his ignorance of how to survive in the major league became alarmingly apparent.

Jerry began a sustained assault, forcing Mac to take flight. But Foster couldn’t find a place to hide, and a countering right hand smash pushed him nearer to the cliff’s edge. He slipped and nearly toppled over in a neutral corner and then found himself trapped on the ropes as Quarry let rip and unleashed the big bombs. Somehow Foster extricated himself, but Jerry pursued him to the opposite corner and drove home the payoff blows. Mac collapsed onto the ring apron, shattered and bleeding from a cut to his face. Referee Johnny LoBianco reached the count of three before signalling the end of the fight.

Ron Lyle

Was there ever a better Jerry Quarry than the cool and disciplined boxing master who gave the thunder-punching Ron Lyle such a brilliant lesson in the noble art? Everything had altered for the better in Jerry’s muddled life by the night of February 9, 1973.

Radical changes had been a necessity. Nearly three years after the Mac Foster triumph, Quarry had been twice beaten by Muhammad Ali and had failed to balance the scales with uninspired points wins over Dick Gosha, Tony Doyle, Lou Bailey and Larry Middleton. Only a first round blitz of British champion Jack Bodell in London had seen Jerry at his fiery best.

His muddled private life and marriage problems had spiralled out of control and driven him to the point of despair.

Switching his base of operations from Los Angeles to New York and placing himself under the shrewd tutelage of Gil Clancy, the calmer and more mature Quarry gained a new lease of life and entered the golden phase of his turbulent career.

Gone was the fresh-faced, crew cut kid, supplanted by a tougher and worldlier man. So long had Jerry been hanging around, you had to remind yourself that he was still only twenty-seven.

He must have experienced a distinct feeling of deja-vu when he checked out the dossier on Ron Lyle. For here was another big man, another big puncher with an unblemished record, another hot shot on a roll. But big Ron would thrillingly prove in the years ahead that he was no false alarm. He was a better, tougher, harder fighter than Thad Spencer, Buster Mathis and Mac Foster ever were.

Ron started late in the professional ranks after a seven and a half-year prison term for second degree murder, but he hit the ground running. He had steamed to 19 successive victories and only Leroy Caldwell and Manuel Ramos had taken him the distance. Lyle, under the guidance of trainer Bobby Lewis, had been matched sensibly against a group of name opponents who were either on the slide or ripe to be picked off. Among Ron’s knockout victims were Jack O’Halloran, Bill Drover, Chuck Leslie, Scrapiron Johnson, Vicente Rondon, Buster Mathis and Luis Faustino Pires.

However, Lyle’s most recent triumph was a victory of genuine quality, a third round demolition of Larry Middleton, who had given Quarry a tough distance fight in London just seven months before.

So Jerry was back at his old stomping ground at Madison Square Garden, now an adopted New York son, but otherwise smack in the middle of a familiar old scenario. He was the lighter man by 19lbs at 200lbs even. He was the whipping boy with the golden name that would look great on Ron Lyle’s hit list. Others had tripped and stumbled over the apparent carcass that was Quarry, but the dead man walking would surely have the decency to follow the script this time. He was coming off a somewhat laboured TKO of Randy Neumann, and dear old Randy was no Ron Lyle.
This, then, was the backdrop. You could almost hear Jerry chomping at the bit.

What followed was an astonishingly authoritative and overwhelming performance. Trainer Gil Clancy, who had patiently drummed the importance of self-discipline into Quarry, must have gone to seventh heaven on that memorable February night. How often does any fighter follow a structured game plan to perfection? Jerry was sensational.

A certain, tight atmosphere lingers over a crowd when it expects an underdog to be crushed, like the eerie silence in the midst of a storm that precedes the next clap of thunder. Quarry went to work in such an atmosphere that night and made hay. He marked his territory in the opening round when he missed with a left hook and then shot a right to Ron’s head that made the big man’s knees dip.

Jerry never looked back as he fought shrewdly on the outside and planned his sudden raids with immaculate timing. Another short right in the fifth round buckled Lyle’s knees again, but Quarry was beaten by the bell as he followed up with a salvo of shots to the head.

Jerry continued to shake Ron with rights and flashing left hooks to the head as the shockingly one-sided fight wore on. Lyle’s feet seemed cemented to the canvas as he was skilfully picked off and rattled by a much more worldly and intelligent foe. Any chink of light for Ron quickly disappeared. He was getting the better of things in the eighth round when Jerry suddenly sent him reeling with a big left hook and pounded him with a succession of shots before the bell.
When it was all over, Quarry had breezed home in the performance of his life. Referee Wally Schmidt saw a closer fight than most, returning a 7-4-1 card. Judges Bill Recht and Tony Castellano tabbed it 9-1-2 and 10-2 for Quarry respectively.

In his dressing room, a jubilant Jerry couldn’t resist crowing and rubbing a few faces in the dirt. “I’m not finished and I don’t have to go into another trade like some people said I should. I proved that. Everybody puts me down because I lose the big fights. They say I just beat the bums. They’re crazy as hell. I think Ronnie sitting right here is one helluva fighter.”

Earnie Shavers

A certain fellow from Warren, Ohio, was also one helluva fighter on his night and one helluva puncher into the bargain. Earnie Shavers was out to wreck Quarry’s perfect year of 1973 when the two men faced off at Madison Square Garden on December 14.

The stats boys loved to number crunch Earnie, because the exercise didn’t require too much exertion. He had lost only two fights and knocked out all but two of his 47 victims. Shavers was a banger and how he could bang. He had wrecked the clever Jimmy Young in three rounds and was coming off a one round blitz of former WBA champ, Jimmy Ellis.

Then Earnie met Jerry and it was all over in two minutes and twenty-one seconds. Riding high and full of confidence, Quarry crashed a left hook to the temple of Shavers and sent him staggering into the ropes. Always a clinical finisher, Jerry kept firing as Earnie descended into the abyss. A right to the face sent Shavers down, scattering his mind and taking the life from his legs. He got up unsteadily, reeled into a corner and was rescued by referee Arthur Mercante.

Everyone was hugely impressed by Quarry’s performance, including world champion George Foreman, who agreed that Jerry was a deserving challenger. How the fans clamoured for a Foreman-Quarry showdown!
Well, Big George never did fight Juggernaut Jerry, and perhaps it is just as well. Would Jerry have won? No.

Alas, for the same old oddly endearing reason.

Mike Casey is a boxing journalist and historian. He is a member of the International Boxing Research Organization (IBRO), an auxiliary member of the Boxing Writers Association of America and founder and editor of the Grand Slam Premium Boxing Service for historians and fans (www.grandslampage.net).

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 22:39
by Randyman
Rick Farris wrote:
Randyman wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Quote from DeLaHoya /Pacquiao 24/7

Freddie Roach:I've worked with Oscar. He's not a real confident guy."
Freddie's a good guy. I talked to him at the Hall of Fame dinner. I went up to him and said "How you doing Freddie?" He was very nice. I said you don't know me but you know my cousin fairly well." "I do?" What's his name?" I said "Louie Burke." He smiled, then laughed and I could see from the expression on his face that he was remembering his fights with my cousin. He said "Louie Burke, how is he?" "Louie's doing pretty good now, he's a training fighters in Las Cruces?" He said "Make sure you tell him I said hello" Then someone whisked him away. I forgot to take a picture.

I disagree with his assessment of Oscar but I think Freddie is a class act. I will definitely be pulling for Oscar.

Randy, I usually pull for Oscar. This time I'm pulling for Pac. Actually, I'm pulling for Freddie. I have no issues, except, the Davey-Goliath principle. I would enjoy seeing Manny bust up Oscar, see DLH on camera afterwards crediting Manny for a great win, announce him the latest "Golden Boy Ambassador", and then cash in on ELA vs. MANILA II. However, I have NEVER discounted the explosive punching power of Oscar De LA Hoya. I have no idea what to expect, except a very worthwhile to watch.

-Rick

Randy
Rick, as much as I like Oscar, I love boxing. I want Oscar to win but more importantly I want boxing to win. The bottom line for me is always "Let the best man win" regardless of who I'm pulling for. I know that the guys on this thread feel the same way. We have our favorites but boxing first, the fighter second. I do give Oscar credit for trying to bring boxing back to it's former glory. He does have sense of history. My hope for Saturday's fight between De La Hoya and Pacquiao? A fight. If we get a FIGHT, the way we know a fight should be fought then we all win. That's a win win situation for everyone. Pacquiao is no Floyd Mayweather Jr.. he comes to fight. Against someone who chooses to fight Oscar has always performed well.

The size issue has been brought up ad nauseam but it is not unprecedented. Carlos Monzon enjoyed a height advantage over Jose Napoles. Tommy Hearns who is, what? 6' 2", towered over a 5' 71/2" Roberto Duran. Hearns had not only the height advantage but the youth advantage as well. Duran began his career as a 118 pounder and was a natural lightweight. He fought Hearns as a Jr Middleweight. Duran was no Jr. middleweight. Hearns ended his career as a cruiserweight. He was a big man. My point is, is that it is not unprecedented. Manny pushed for the fight and got it. Still, "Let the best man win".

Randy :box:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 23:00
by Rick Farris
dagosd2000 wrote:WAITING FOR THE ELEVATOR


The old champ had his face against the elevator door.
"I'm lost. Where am I ?"
"We'll be going up stairs in a minute."
"Will we eat?"
"Yes"
"Good, I'm hungry."
"Stand back. I hear the elevator."
The old champ looked behind him and then stepped back. The elevator doors opened in front of him.
"Do I go in?",asked the old champ.
"Yes,this is where you get on."
"Are we going up?"
"Yes."
"Are we going to eat up there?"
"Yes. They're waiting for you."
"Good,"said the old champ."I'm lost. I don't know where I am."
"Follow me onto the elevator. You'll be all right."
The elavator doors closed behind them. I thought about the old champ. I thought about his fights with the Cubans. He was very brave then. He fought with everything inside him.

Now he was scared waiting for an elevator. I saw him sign a picture for some guy in the lobby. It was when Paret died. The old champ signed his name on it like it was nothing.
Rog, your story says a lot. It also indirectly exposed a reality relating to so called "boxing fans". Most of those who idolize an all-time great are respectful, and then there are those who don't know the meaning of respect. The guy you referrred to, wanted the old champ to sign a photo. It was a photo the fighter had seen more than anybody else on the planet, a 8x10 B&W print of the champ standing over a comatose opponent, one that died a couple days later. It was a photo that defined a boxer's career to those who don't understand the sport.

Knowing as true boxing fans do that the Champ had a sensitive issue relating to that picture, one might consider another photo to have signed. But the people who fill the arena to watch fighters are the same people who slow down on the freeway to view an accident site. I guess it all comes down to class and respect, and some can't comprehend such qualities. Boxers are just brain dead shells of greatness in the eyes of some. The Champ has learned to ignore the shortcomings of others, he had to, it wasn't an option.

-Rick

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 23:26
by Rick Farris
Randy, I usually pull for Oscar. This time I'm pulling for Pac. Actually, I'm pulling for Freddie. I have no issues, except, the Davey-Goliath principle. I would enjoy seeing Manny bust up Oscar, see DLH on camera afterwards crediting Manny for a great win, announce him the latest "Golden Boy Ambassador", and then cash in on ELA vs. MANILA II. However, I have NEVER discounted the explosive punching power of Oscar De LA Hoya. I have no idea what to expect, except a very worthwhile to watch.

-Rick

Randy[/quote][/quote]
Rick, as much as I like Oscar, I love boxing. I want Oscar to win but more importantly I want boxing to win. The bottom line for me is always "Let the best man win" regardless of who I'm pulling for. I know that the guys on this thread feel the same way. We have our favorites but boxing first, the fighter second. I do give Oscar credit for trying to bring boxing back to it's former glory. He does have sense of history. My hope for Saturday's fight between De La Hoya and Pacquiao? A fight. If we get a FIGHT, the way we know a fight should be fought then we all win. That's a win win situation for everyone. Pacquiao is no Floyd Mayweather Jr.. he comes to fight. Against someone who chooses to fight Oscar has always performed well.

The size issue has been brought up ad nauseam but it is not unprecedented. Carlos Monzon enjoyed a height advantage over Jose Napoles. Tommy Hearns who is, what? 6' 2", towered over a 5' 71/2" Roberto Duran. Hearns had not only the height advantage but the youth advantage as well. Duran began his career as a 118 pounder and was a natural lightweight. He fought Hearns as a Jr Middleweight. Duran was no Jr. middleweight. Hearns ended his career as a cruiserweight. He was a big man. My point is, is that it is not unprecedented. Manny pushed for the fight and got it. Still, "Let the best man win".

Randy :box:[/quote]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm with you, Randy. Let the BEST man win. And let boxing win. Something tells me that this fight will be one worth seeing. I'm actually looking forward to saturday night. Have a few friends coming over

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 23:28
by Randyman
Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:WAITING FOR THE ELEVATOR


The old champ had his face against the elevator door.
"I'm lost. Where am I ?"
"We'll be going up stairs in a minute."
"Will we eat?"
"Yes"
"Good, I'm hungry."
"Stand back. I hear the elevator."
The old champ looked behind him and then stepped back. The elevator doors opened in front of him.
"Do I go in?",asked the old champ.
"Yes,this is where you get on."
"Are we going up?"
"Yes."
"Are we going to eat up there?"
"Yes. They're waiting for you."
"Good,"said the old champ."I'm lost. I don't know where I am."
"Follow me onto the elevator. You'll be all right."
The elavator doors closed behind them. I thought about the old champ. I thought about his fights with the Cubans. He was very brave then. He fought with everything inside him.

Now he was scared waiting for an elevator. I saw him sign a picture for some guy in the lobby. It was when Paret died. The old champ signed his name on it like it was nothing.
Rog, your story says a lot. It also indirectly exposed a reality relating to so called "boxing fans". Most of those who idolize an all-time great are respectful, and then there are those who don't know the meaning of respect. The guy you referrred to, wanted the old champ to sign a photo. It was a photo the fighter had seen more than anybody else on the planet, a 8x10 B&W print of the champ standing over a comatose opponent, one that died a couple days later. It was a photo that defined a boxer's career to those who don't understand the sport.

Knowing as true boxing fans do that the Champ had a sensitive issue relating to that picture, one might consider another photo to have signed. But the people who fill the arena to watch fighters are the same people who slow down on the freeway to view an accident site. I guess it all comes down to class and respect, and some can't comprehend such qualities. Boxers are just brain dead shells of greatness in the eyes of some. The Champ has learned to ignore the shortcomings of others, he had to, it wasn't an option.

-Rick
Well said, both of you. Respect, such a great, great word and one that is often ignored. The guys on this thread understand the word as it was meant to be.

Randy :verysad:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 04 Dec 2008, 23:29
by Randyman
Rick Farris wrote:Randy, I usually pull for Oscar. This time I'm pulling for Pac. Actually, I'm pulling for Freddie. I have no issues, except, the Davey-Goliath principle. I would enjoy seeing Manny bust up Oscar, see DLH on camera afterwards crediting Manny for a great win, announce him the latest "Golden Boy Ambassador", and then cash in on ELA vs. MANILA II. However, I have NEVER discounted the explosive punching power of Oscar De LA Hoya. I have no idea what to expect, except a very worthwhile to watch.

-Rick
Rick, as much as I like Oscar, I love boxing. I want Oscar to win but more importantly I want boxing to win. The bottom line for me is always "Let the best man win" regardless of who I'm pulling for. I know that the guys on this thread feel the same way. We have our favorites but boxing first, the fighter second. I do give Oscar credit for trying to bring boxing back to it's former glory. He does have sense of history. My hope for Saturday's fight between De La Hoya and Pacquiao? A fight. If we get a FIGHT, the way we know a fight should be fought then we all win. That's a win win situation for everyone. Pacquiao is no Floyd Mayweather Jr.. he comes to fight. Against someone who chooses to fight Oscar has always performed well.

The size issue has been brought up ad nauseam but it is not unprecedented. Carlos Monzon enjoyed a height advantage over Jose Napoles. Tommy Hearns who is, what? 6' 2", towered over a 5' 71/2" Roberto Duran. Hearns had not only the height advantage but the youth advantage as well. Duran began his career as a 118 pounder and was a natural lightweight. He fought Hearns as a Jr Middleweight. Duran was no Jr. middleweight. Hearns ended his career as a cruiserweight. He was a big man. My point is, is that it is not unprecedented. Manny pushed for the fight and got it. Still, "Let the best man win".

Randy :box:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm with you, Randy. Let the BEST man win. And let boxing win. Something tells me that this fight will be one worth seeing. I'm actually looking forward to saturday night. Have a few friends coming over
:TU:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 05 Dec 2008, 04:40
by bennie
Image


Fagan looks his 34 years in that picture, no? This bill has been blighted by injuries. Banks is out with a sorely ankle, Cook has 'flu, etc. It is the same for the Nottingham show on the same night, with a mouthwatering British title eliminator scuppered by 'flu. Plus, a British champion by the name of David Barnes was stripped of his title this week when he pulled out of a defence scheduled for tonight.
Once upon a time, titles were precious and fighters would only get one or two title chances. Now...