BoxRec

DLH looks old in this pic.

Is this the end of a long career? I sure hope so.

kikibalt wrote:
Is this the end of a long career? I sure hope so.

Haven't seen the fight yet, but El Gato called me from Vegas last night around midnight to tell me about it. He said Pipino Cuevas came up to him after the 1st round and said, "Oscar's overtrained", that he looked skinny. Would anyone agree with that? Sounds more to me that Oscar got old overnight with a ball of fire in the other corner.

Scartissue

scartissue wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Is this the end of a long career? I sure hope so.

Haven't seen the fight yet, but El Gato called me from Vegas last night around midnight to tell me about it. He said Pipino Cuevas came up to him after the 1st round and said, "Oscar's overtrained", that he looked skinny. Would anyone agree with that? Sounds more to me that Oscar got old overnight with a ball of fire in the other corner.

Scartissue

Overtrained? NO!, like you said he just got old, happens to the very best....

bennie wrote:The big British boxing night is over and, as expected, there were thrills, spills, upsets - everything. Carl Froch walked into slick, heavy handed, previously unbeaten Canadian Jean Pascal and pounded out a thrilling 12-round decision in his own Nottingham fortress for the WBC super-middleweight title. Nice.
Strongman Froch did exactly the right thing as he lured Pascal into a war, a battle of attrition. Carl "The Cobra", who somehow makes 12 stone, is not going to lose any tear-ups at this stage of his career. His style and his porous defence, however, make you wonder about his long-term future at this level, although he can certainly soak up a punch. Take a fight with Calzaghe now, take the money. Froch might just 'do' the quick but rapidly ageing Welshman.
On the same night in London Amir Khan blitzed Irish trier Oisin Fagan in two empahtic rounds. Khan can dish it out, all right. Can he take it? This is the quandary facing him and his new trainer Freddie Roach, who had a pretty good night, over the next couple of years. The 21-year-old Khan can only go out there and win in the meantime and his lightning-speed and reflexes put him a class above the likes of Fagan. Plus, boxing fans have short memories. A few more wins like this, and Breidis Prescott will only get a casual mention. Seriously. More defining tests have to happen one day, though.
As for Audley Harrison, I'm sorry, the guy is useless. He won an Olympic gold medal because he mastered the computer scoring system used in the amateur game, not beause he mastered boxing. His heart is not in it - never was, never will be. Anyone with heart is going to expose him over a distance. Well done Martin Rogan. Enjoy the next few heady months. Unbeaten, you deserve a crack at something big.

Thanks for the update on British boxing, Bennie....

Analyzing Manny Pacquiao's victory over Oscar De La Hoya


Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times
Manny Pacquiao is lifted above the ring after defeating Oscar De La Hoya after eight rounds Saturday night at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas.

Times staff writer Lance Pugmire goes round-by-round in a fight that almost certainly ended an era in the sport.
By Lance Pugmire

As strong and fit as Oscar De La Hoya touted himself in the weeks leading into his Saturday night fight against the younger, faster, fitter Manny Pacquiao, I can't help thinking now about something the Golden Boy said after a strenuous workout.

And he'll need to load up on the stuff today as he recovers from a one-sided beatdown handed him by boxing's best fighter, pound-for-pound, in the world. Here's a round-by-round look at what happened in the 24 minutes before De La Hoya's corner stopped the fight after the eighth round.

Round 1

>>>Recap: With a capacity MGM Grand crowd of 15,001 worked up by the fighters' dramatic ring entries -- Oscar strode in wearing a burgundy robe pulled atop his head and Pacquiao had Queen's "We Will Rock You," blaring as he made the walk -- Pacquiao immediately showed that his speed was a decisive advantage, stinging the former 10-time world champion with quick lefts to the face, and ducking under any of De La Hoya's lefts, as planned by his preparers.

>>>Pugmire's take: Pacquiao said it best, "I knew right from the first round I had him." And his trainer Freddie Roach added, "Oscar was hesitant from the first round. I knew there'd be a stoppage." Words of wisdom.

>>>Judges: Stanley Christodoulou (De La Hoya, 10-9); Adalaide Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-9); Dave Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-9).

Round 2

>>>Recap: Pacquiao snapped off a left-right to Oscar's head and back-to-back lefts to his nose. Oscar's jab was used, but it was soft, while Pacquiao was snapping his punches relentlessly. A stiff left by Pacquiao punctuated the one-sided start.

>>>Pugmire's take: This is when you knew the Pacquiao speed would define the evening. Oscar looked like an old fighter, exactly as Roach had predicted when he talked about this happening to Sugar Ray Leonard and Roy Jones Jr.

>>>Judges: Christodoulou (Pacquiao, 10-9); Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-9); Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-9).

Round 3

>>>Recap: Pacquiao pumped in jab after jab to Oscar's face. Just as he worked on in training, he was masterful at ducking under Oscar's left and swinging for the body. Oscar's punches were wide, easy-to-avoid efforts, and a bump of swelling emerged at his left eyebrow.

>>>Pugmire's take: Even those who picked Pacquiao (OK, I didn't) had to have been surprised by the 3-0 sweep. Oscar was supposed to be at his strongest early. He clearly wasn't.

>>>Judges: Christodoulou (Pacquiao, 10-9); Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-9); Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-9).

Round 4

>>>Recap: A good right by Oscar was quickly followed by two fast lefts by Pacquiao. The crowd, wanting badly to cheer for the man who has packed this place so many times, raised on a few nice punches, but Pacquiao ended the thought of a rally by pounding Oscar's body and smacking him with a left that rolled De La Hoya's head back.

>>>Pugmire's take: Someone at ringside said Manny was teeing off "like batting practice." At this point, the outcome had only the suspense of when the bout would end.

>>>Judges: Christodoulou (Pacquiao, 10-9); Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-9); Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-9).

Round 5

>>>Recap: Oscar's left eye was swelling, and Pacquiao's fast punching was dominating. Manny went right-right-left in one sequence, scoring blows, then came back left-left-right. He wails on Oscar's body. De La Hoya pounded on Pacquiao's head with consecutive punches, but his fatigue was showing at the end of another Pacquiao flurry.

>>>Pugmire's take: If you relied solely on body language and facial expression, you could tell the end was coming when Oscar nodded to Pacquiao with a beaten look on his face.

>>>Judges: Christodoulou (Pacquiao, 10-9); Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-9); Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-9).

Round 6

>>>Recap: The growing disparity in speed allowed Pacquiao to attack Oscar's body and head. He was now toying with De La Hoya, particularly with a jab-jab-cross combination and a late, great left.

>>>Pugmire's take: It was now 6-0 on most scorecards and Oscar's rest after the round was spent alone on the stool for about 10 seconds. He was clearly a beaten-up 35-year-old man whom I can't see returning to the ring again.

>>>Judges: Christodoulou (Pacquiao, 10-9); Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-9); Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-9).

Round 7

>>>Recap: CompuStats recorded a staggering 45 power punches by Pacquiao in this most lopsided round. That's the most power punches De La Hoya has ever absorbed in 31 fights recorded by the punch stat company. Pacquiao swarmed De La Hoya with a barrage of blows in Oscar's corner, then did it again across the ring. Oscar's left eye swelled by the second and was closed by the end of the abuse, with a cut underneath.

>>>Pugmire's take: Pacquiao entrenched himself as fighter of the year with this showing, and this successful move up in weight against the proud (but finished) champion deserves the comparisons to the great Henry Armstrong.

>>>Judges: Christodoulou (Pacquiao, 10-8); Adalaide Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-8); Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-8).

Round 8

>>>Recap: Pacquiao again corners De La Hoya with a sharp combination. De La Hoya's attempted jab was in vain. De La Hoya is clearly drained, and worse, he's wounded by a big Pacquiao left. A De La Hoya combination elicits a taunt from Pacquiao, who raises his arms, urging on the ex-champ and unleashing a final flurry at the end of the round. The blood under Oscar's left eye is flowing freely, and less than halfway through the break before the ninth round, trainer "Nacho" Beristain says the fight is over.

>>>Pugmire's take: These were likely De La Hoya's final moments in the ring, and ring announcer Michael Buffer handled the carnage with dignity: "Tonight, we turn a page in boxing history."

>>>Judges: Christodoulou (Pacquiao, 10-9); Byrd (Pacquiao, 10-9); Moretti (Pacquiao, 10-9).

Pearl Harbor commemoration to focus on US response


HONOLULU – With an eye on the immediate aftermath of the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, thousands of World War II veterans and other observers are expected on Sunday to commemorate the 67th anniversary of the devastating Japanese military raid.

The theme of the event — "Pacific War Memories: The Heroic Response to Pearl Harbor" — is something of a departure from the past.

Usually, the commemoration focuses on the attack on the USS Arizona, Pearl Harbor and several other installations on Oahu. But this year's remembrance ceremony will center more on the months following the raid, said Eileen Martinez, chief of interpretation for the National Park Service.

"We're moving into the Pacific War, the first strike back," she said.

To that end, one of two keynote speakers will be Thomas Griffin, a surviving member of the pilots and crew who answered the Pearl Harbor attack four months later with an aircraft carrier-launched bomber raid on Tokyo.

The B-25 mission, led by Lt. Col. James H. Doolittle, inflicted little damage on Japan but boosted morale in America and led the embarrassed Japanese government to launch an ill-fated attack on Midway Island.

The other keynote address will be delivered by Admiral Robert F. Willard, commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

Sunday's commemoration will feature a performance by the U.S. Pacific Fleet Band, morning colors, a Hawaiian blessing, a rifle salute by the U.S. Marine Corps and a recognition of those who survived the attack.

At 7:55 a.m., when the attack began 67 years ago, a moment of silence will be observed. The destroyer USS Chung-Hoon will render honors to the USS Arizona, which still lies beneath the harbor with its dead.

Almost 2,400 Americans were killed and nearly 1,180 injured when Japanese fighters bombed and sank 12 naval vessels and heavily damaged nine others on Dec. 7, 1941. The Arizona, which sank in less than nine minutes after an armor-piercing bomb breached its deck and exploded in the ship's ammunition magazine, lost 1,177 sailors and marines. About 340 of its crew survived.

Other major installations on Oahu, such as Wheeler Field and Kaneohe Naval Air Station, also were attacked.

This year's ceremony comes weeks after construction began on a new visitor's center for the USS Arizona Memorial. The existing center, which was built 28 years ago on reclaimed land, is sinking. Officials have said it will be unusable in a few years.

This year's event will be held a half-mile away at Kilo Pier of Naval Station Pearl Harbor, the site for next year's commemoration as well. The new visitor's center is scheduled to open Dec. 7, 2010.

dagosd2000 wrote:THE NEW WORLD

I just rolled in. I'll try to put my thoughts on the fight together,but I'm a little f----d up. Crossed the border to watch the thing at the Sports Book. Yeh,I thought I'd put A little wager on it. You see Oscar has made money for me before,by losing. Hopkins,Pretty Boy. But this time I got some good odds. 2 to 1, so I put a hundred down on Pacman to win. If I knew Oscar was going to look that bad ,I could have scored bigger if I picked the KO.

Oscar looked older than a hobo's shoes. 145? He couldn't even put on weight after the weigh in. He was all dried up. Like he took some funny pills to get that low. But who would test him? The Commission? Hell,him and Arum are the Commission.

Well after cashing in,it was across the street to the Monaco. The place hasn't changed much. As much beer on the floor as there is on the bar. Dance floor in the middle with one of those big glass balls hanging down with the lights hitting it for that strobe light effect. Had a band . They were horrible,but they played real loud. I don't think any music critics were in the house.

I can't get a buzz on any booze anymore but tequila. Anything else just gives me a headache. After getting acquainted with Jose Cuervo,I let my guard down reminiscent of DeLaHoya. I had no defenses. So there she was. Sitting at the end of the bar wearing a blonde wig and a dress that told me I wouldn't have to go to the Grand Canyon for the summer. After inviting her over to my table(making sure I wiped all the beer off the seat)we indulged in a foreplay of lying to each other. She told me her name was Petunia. I told her my name was Oscar.

After enough of that,it was out the door to the Hotel Never Never Land. I pretended I was Christopher Columbus exploring the New World. It was quite an adventure. After tucking in my sails,Petunia got the rest of my winnings from the Sports Book.
"Gracias amor",said Petunia.
"You can thank DeLa Hoya," I answered.

Maybe Oscar will fight again next year. All this Pacquiao stuff will be forgotten by then. Besides, by that time I'd like to revisit the New World.

........ ...

Chuck1052 wrote:I didn't see the fight tonight, but was wondering if it was similar to the first bout between Manny Pacquiao and Marco Antonio Barrera. I remember that Pacquiao was much too quick for Barrera, resulting in a lopsided win.

- Chuck Johnston

Manny never had an easier win than last night. Oscar was a lost ball in high grass. As Frank said, "Fighting is a young man's sport."

-Rick

bennie wrote:The big British boxing night is over and, as expected, there were thrills, spills, upsets - everything. Carl Froch walked into slick, heavy handed, previously unbeaten Canadian Jean Pascal and pounded out a thrilling 12-round decision in his own Nottingham fortress for the WBC super-middleweight title. Nice.
Strongman Froch did exactly the right thing as he lured Pascal into a war, a battle of attrition. Carl "The Cobra", who somehow makes 12 stone, is not going to lose any tear-ups at this stage of his career. His style and his porous defence, however, make you wonder about his long-term future at this level, although he can certainly soak up a punch. Take a fight with Calzaghe now, take the money. Froch might just 'do' the quick but rapidly ageing Welshman.
On the same night in London Amir Khan blitzed Irish trier Oisin Fagan in two empahtic rounds. Khan can dish it out, all right. Can he take it? This is the quandary facing him and his new trainer Freddie Roach, who had a pretty good night, over the next couple of years. The 21-year-old Khan can only go out there and win in the meantime and his lightning-speed and reflexes put him a class above the likes of Fagan. Plus, boxing fans have short memories. A few more wins like this, and Breidis Prescott will only get a casual mention. Seriously. More defining tests have to happen one day, though.
As for Audley Harrison, I'm sorry, the guy is useless. He won an Olympic gold medal because he mastered the computer scoring system used in the amateur game, not beause he mastered boxing. His heart is not in it - never was, never will be. Anyone with heart is going to expose him over a distance. Well done Martin Rogan. Enjoy the next few heady months. Unbeaten, you deserve a crack at something big.

Thanks, Bennie. I appreciate your coverage of these fights. You made an interesting point regarding Breidis Prescott. Reality.

-Rick

kikibalt wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:THE NEW WORLD

I just rolled in. I'll try to put my thoughts on the fight together,but I'm a little f----d up. Crossed the border to watch the thing at the Sports Book. Yeh,I thought I'd put A little wager on it. You see Oscar has made money for me before,by losing. Hopkins,Pretty Boy. But this time I got some good odds. 2 to 1, so I put a hundred down on Pacman to win. If I knew Oscar was going to look that bad ,I could have scored bigger if I picked the KO.

Oscar looked older than a hobo's shoes. 145? He couldn't even put on weight after the weigh in. He was all dried up. Like he took some funny pills to get that low. But who would test him? The Commission? Hell,him and Arum are the Commission.

Well after cashing in,it was across the street to the Monaco. The place hasn't changed much. As much beer on the floor as there is on the bar. Dance floor in the middle with one of those big glass balls hanging down with the lights hitting it for that strobe light effect. Had a band . They were horrible,but they played real loud. I don't think any music critics were in the house.

I can't get a buzz on any booze anymore but tequila. Anything else just gives me a headache. After getting acquainted with Jose Cuervo,I let my guard down reminiscent of DeLaHoya. I had no defenses. So there she was. Sitting at the end of the bar wearing a blonde wig and a dress that told me I wouldn't have to go to the Grand Canyon for the summer. After inviting her over to my table(making sure I wiped all the beer off the seat)we indulged in a foreplay of lying to each other. She told me her name was Petunia. I told her my name was Oscar.

After enough of that,it was out the door to the Hotel Never Never Land. I pretended I was Christopher Columbus exploring the New World. It was quite an adventure. After tucking in my sails,Petunia got the rest of my winnings from the Sports Book.
"Gracias amor",said Petunia.
"You can thank DeLa Hoya," I answered.

Maybe Oscar will fight again next year. All this Pacquiao stuff will be forgotten by then. Besides, by that time I'd like to revisit the New World.

........ ...

I second that.

kikibalt wrote:

After sixteen successful years of fighting the best, it's time for Oscar to hang 'em up. I will never forget the first time I heard his name. My former manager Johnnie Flores told me of Oscar in December, 1989, while attending the funeral of one of my stablemates. Flores was very excited about a 16-year-old amateur world champ named Oscar De La Hoya. Johnnie was Mr. Golden Gloves in Los Angeles, and the fighter was nearly three years from winning Olympic gold.

"He's the best amateur I have ever seen" Those were Johnnie Flores words, and Johnny had seen Mando Ramos, another youthful over-achiever just a few years back. Johnny had brought Jerry Quarry thru the amateurs to a National GG heavyweight title and on to a pro career that included world title bouts with Ali & Frazier. Even so, Flores told me on that day that Oscar was the best 16-year-old he'd seen. I started to tell Flores about the Ruelas brothers, who were about the same age and fighting amateur under the Goossens. Flores acknowledged Gabe and Rafael, but he waved off any suggestion that they were equal to Oscar. I'm then thinking back over Johnny's L.A. amateur experience and his familiarization with the Baltazar Boys, and Thurman Durden, Ed Sanders, Clay Hodges, Keeny Teran, Gil Cadilli . . . nope, this kid De La Hoya was the best he said he'd ever seen. Johnnie rarely made such statements, but I heard this, and a couple years later I'd see the Los Angeles boy win the Olympics, and everything else he touched.

Here's my feelings. Oscar is an L.A. guy, who came out of the same tournaments that I did, as did Mando Ramos, the Baltazar boys, Davila, Sandovals, the Quarry's, and so many more. He did it right. Was he lucky, maybe, but more so he was tough & talented. He did his mother proud, and he did all of former L.A. boxers proud, even the ones who are envious and bitter.

VIVA Oscar!

Now hang 'em up, it's over.

-Rick

I was very disappointed in last nite's fight card, not one, not one fight was competitive, Golden Boy is using the undercard to just get a win for their up and coming fighters. Then they wonder why the boxing fans are going to the MMA.
I never thouht I would say this, but I miss Don King's competitive cards from the 70's-80's and 90's. That was a bullshit card of fights last nite.

kikibalt wrote:I was very disappointed in last nite's fight card, not one, not one fight was competitive, Golden Boy is using the undercard to just get a win for their up and coming fighters. Then they wonder why the boxing fans are going to the MMA.
I never thouht I would say this, but I miss Don King's competitive cards from the 70's-80's and 90's. That was a bullshit card of fights last nite.

I agree, Frank. Bad undercard. The result of the main event is the only saving grace.

-Rick

scartissue wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Is this the end of a long career? I sure hope so.

Haven't seen the fight yet, but El Gato called me from Vegas last night around midnight to tell me about it. He said Pipino Cuevas came up to him after the 1st round and said, "Oscar's overtrained", that he looked skinny. Would anyone agree with that? Sounds more to me that Oscar got old overnight with a ball of fire in the other corner.

Scartissue

Over-trained my ass! You called it Scar, his egg timer just ran out of sand, and to make things worse, he had to face a hard hitting speedster with experience, style and big pair of balls.

-Rick

PEARL HARBOR

They say 2000 World War II vets die each day.Today is Pearl Harbor Day. I heard an interview this morning with one of the last survivors of that Day of Infamy. Harder and harder to find those guys now a days. Yeh,he was scared all right. Get blind sided like that and you're reacting on instincts.
"All I could think of was getting the hell out of there,"said the old soldier.
His voice was soft like he was bringing it all back when he was talking to the news reporter. He brings it back everyday. Probably doesn't talk much about it unless someone asks.Most of his pals are gone.The ones that were beside him that day. Not many around that know what happened on December 7th. Just as many don't care. Watching the NFL game. Not a word of it today. More interest in the local team. That's more important. Not really,but 1941 was so long ago. Look at an old man today and wonder what he was doing on December 7th.

DeLa Hoya lost. Were you disappointed? Did your team lose today? If you feel bad about these things,at least you're around to feel bad about it. We can thank the old soldiers and sailors and Marines that were scared as hell 67 years ago who made that all possible. They made it all possible because once they understood their fear, they used it to beat the devil.

dagosd2000 wrote:PEARL HARBOR

They say 2000 World War II vets die each day.Today is Pearl Harbor Day. I heard an interview this morning with one of the last survivors of that Day of Infamy. Harder and harder to find those guys now a days. Yeh,he was scared all right. Get blind sided like that and you're reacting on instincts.
"All I could think of was getting the hell out of there,"said the old soldier.
His voice was soft like he was bringing it all back when he was talking to the news reporter. He brings it back everyday. Probably doesn't talk much about it unless someone asks.Most of his pals are gone.The ones that were beside him that day. Not many around that know what happened on December 7th. Just as many don't care. Watching the NFL game. Not a word of it today. More interest in the local team. That's more important. Not really,but 1941 was so long ago. Look at an old man today and wonder what he was doing on December 7th.

DeLa Hoya lost. Were you disappointed? Did your team lose today? If you feel bad about these things,at least you're around to feel bad about it. We can thank the old soldiers and sailors and Marines that were scared as hell 67 years ago who made that all possible. They made it all possible because once they understood their fear, they used it to beat the devil.

scartissue wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Is this the end of a long career? I sure hope so.

Haven't seen the fight yet, but El Gato called me from Vegas last night around midnight to tell me about it. He said Pipino Cuevas came up to him after the 1st round and said, "Oscar's overtrained", that he looked skinny. Would anyone agree with that? Sounds more to me that Oscar got old overnight with a ball of fire in the other corner.

Scartissue

Dan
I wasn't kiddin'. DeLaHoya looked drained. How he got down to 145 leaves a lot of things open to question. He couldn't put on weight after the weigh in. Rember Ali when he fought Holmes? Thought if he got down to 215 like he was aginst Folley before the retirement,ne'd be his old self. Instead he got just old. Used diuretics to get the weight off. He had nothing. After the 1st round he told Dundee he couldn't react. If you watch the replay of Oscar/Manny,it's the same thing. Oscar had nothing from the opening bell. He did something screwy. All I know is whatever he did to get down that low wound up screwing himself.

kikibalt wrote:
Is this the end of a long career? I sure hope so.

By Randy De La O

The saying goes "Never fall in love with a fighter because he'll break your heart every time". That sums up my feelings about last night's fight. Perhaps it was inevitable and inescapable. Oscar played the odds last night and lost. He had in front of him a 5' 6 1/2" giant of a man named Manny Pacquiao that took Oscar to a place he had never before been, a place he could never have envisioned for himself. It was a place called surrender. It is an unholy place.

I was as confident of De La Hoya's victory going into this fight as I have ever been. Despite the fact that I thought this fight was a no win situation for Oscar, I figured he would win the fight. I was caught off guard. Of course I thought the possibility of a Pacquiao victory existed. I have seen enough fights to know that in boxing anything is possible but not this.

My first inkling that things did not seem right was when I saw Oscar in his dressing room. His face seemed hollow and his skin did not set well on his frame. Still, I was confident, concerned, but confident. I saw no fire in his face when he was making the walk into the ring. A funny feeling came over me.

One minute into the first round, at least for me, it was foregone conclusion. Suddenly Oscar De La Hoya was an old man. The fact that he was facing a human dynamo, this relentless nightmare that is Manny Pacquiao, this human predator that would not be denied, had much to do with it but so too did Father Time. Still Oscar was showing some heart. He was taking his lickings and once or twice during the fight he mounted an attack but it was short lived, sporadic and unsustainable. He had nothing to offer in the way of defense or offense. Not an iota.

Somewhere during the fight, maybe the third round, I forget which because they all looked alike, I saw Oscar losing heart. There came a point when Oscar was just trying to survive. Where once Oscar De La Hoya was the hunter, relentless in his pursuit of his opponent, now he was the hunted, mere prey for the relentless Pacquiao, who was like a young wolf challenging the old wolf for his rightful place as the new leader of the pack.

It was painful for me to watch. I knew Oscar was going to fold. I saw it in his body language, I saw it in his eyes. I said out loud "Oscar, don't quit. Don't quit". At another point I turned to Ed Hernandez and said "I think he might quit on his stool". A round or two later, either the referee or the fight doctor asked "Are you alright? Do you want me to stop the fight? Can you continue? (I'm paraphrasing) Oscar just stared. His heart and spirit were gone. That he had enough of Pacquiao was evident. Age, weight loss, Manny Pacquiao, take your pick, all of them conspired in the total destruction of a fighter named Oscar De La Hoya. Unable to voice the words Oscar just stared but his eyes betrayed him, just as his once strong body betrayed him. His eyes, his body language and his overall demeanor told trainer Nacho Beristain everything he needed to know. He signaled to referee Tony Weeks to stop the fight and just like that the career of Oscar De La Hoya was over. It doesn't matter if he fools himself and fights again, it is over for Oscar De La Hoya. If you don't believe me ask the "Fat Lady" she was their last night singing.

My son Andrew called from Seattle last night after the fight to find out what I thought. We had two widely different opinions about the fight. He was disgusted with De La Hoya, once one of his favorites. His first words to me were "Dad, don't defend him!" He believes, as I'm sure many others do, and maybe rightly so, that Oscar didn't care if he won or lost, he made his money and took the easy way out. What it ultimately boiled down to is that Andrew believes Oscar would not continue and I believe he could not.

Whatever it was, only Oscar knows. He will play the fight over and over again, hoping for a different ending but the ending will remain the same. Oscar could not or would not come out for the ninth round. Time will not change that.

Never fall in love with a fighter, he'll break your heart every time. Every single damned time.

dagosd2000 wrote:

scartissue wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Is this the end of a long career? I sure hope so.

Haven't seen the fight yet, but El Gato called me from Vegas last night around midnight to tell me about it. He said Pipino Cuevas came up to him after the 1st round and said, "Oscar's overtrained", that he looked skinny. Would anyone agree with that? Sounds more to me that Oscar got old overnight with a ball of fire in the other corner.

Scartissue

Dan
I wasn't kiddin'. DeLaHoya looked drained. How he got down to 145 leaves a lot of things open to question. He couldn't put on weight after the weigh in. Rember Ali when he fought Holmes? Thought if he got down to 215 like he was aginst Folley before the retirement,ne'd be his old self. Instead he got just old. Used diuretics to get the weight off. He had nothing. After the 1st round he told Dundee he couldn't react. If you watch the replay of Oscar/Manny,it's the same thing. Oscar had nothing from the opening bell. He did something screwy. All I know is whatever he did to get down that low wound up screwing himself.

Rog, I agree. The Holmes-Ali fight was the same analogy that Ed and I referred to. I was hard to watch.

Randy

Rick Farris wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:PEARL HARBOR

They say 2000 World War II vets die each day.Today is Pearl Harbor Day. I heard an interview this morning with one of the last survivors of that Day of Infamy. Harder and harder to find those guys now a days. Yeh,he was scared all right. Get blind sided like that and you're reacting on instincts.
"All I could think of was getting the hell out of there,"said the old soldier.
His voice was soft like he was bringing it all back when he was talking to the news reporter. He brings it back everyday. Probably doesn't talk much about it unless someone asks.Most of his pals are gone.The ones that were beside him that day. Not many around that know what happened on December 7th. Just as many don't care. Watching the NFL game. Not a word of it today. More interest in the local team. That's more important. Not really,but 1941 was so long ago. Look at an old man today and wonder what he was doing on December 7th.

DeLa Hoya lost. Were you disappointed? Did your team lose today? If you feel bad about these things,at least you're around to feel bad about it. We can thank the old soldiers and sailors and Marines that were scared as hell 67 years ago who made that all possible. They made it all possible because once they understood their fear, they used it to beat the devil.

Thank you for that Rog

Randyman wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:PEARL HARBOR

They say 2000 World War II vets die each day.Today is Pearl Harbor Day. I heard an interview this morning with one of the last survivors of that Day of Infamy. Harder and harder to find those guys now a days. Yeh,he was scared all right. Get blind sided like that and you're reacting on instincts.
"All I could think of was getting the hell out of there,"said the old soldier.
His voice was soft like he was bringing it all back when he was talking to the news reporter. He brings it back everyday. Probably doesn't talk much about it unless someone asks.Most of his pals are gone.The ones that were beside him that day. Not many around that know what happened on December 7th. Just as many don't care. Watching the NFL game. Not a word of it today. More interest in the local team. That's more important. Not really,but 1941 was so long ago. Look at an old man today and wonder what he was doing on December 7th.

DeLa Hoya lost. Were you disappointed? Did your team lose today? If you feel bad about these things,at least you're around to feel bad about it. We can thank the old soldiers and sailors and Marines that were scared as hell 67 years ago who made that all possible. They made it all possible because once they understood their fear, they used it to beat the devil.

Thank you for that Rog

Randy
We have a Veterans Memorial Cemetary here in San Diego. The cemetary is at the tip of Point Loma that reaches out to the mouth of the harbor. It's full up now. Veterans are buried now ,I believe, in a Memorial Cemetary near Riverside.

The road that runs past the cemetary in Point Loma ends at the old lighthouse. That's where many tourists go to see the view of the city. Sometimes,not recently,I used to walk through the Military Cemetary. I'd read the names on the headstones. All the headstones uniform in rows. The fallen identified by their religion,branch of service,and birth dates and dates of passing. For me it is a good place to get my priorities straight.

There's another War Memorial atop Mt. Soledad in La Jolla. Plaques commemorating war veterans surround a giant cross. A while back there was a group that wanted the cross demolished because they felt it discrimminated against ,not only other religions,but atheists. This group is comprised of atheists that wanted the cross torn down.
Like the cemetary in Point Loma,I go up Mt. Soledad to show respect and get my bearings . I think about my Dad who was a Marine. I look at the black and white photos of the servicemen on the plaques.I read the stories of their sacrafices.It's very peacefull up there.What would have been gained to take all that away?

Pearl Harbor commemoration focuses on U.S. response


Lucy Pemoni / Associated Press
More than 2,000 attended the commemoration this year in Hawaii.

Today's remembrance, which was attended by scores of serving U.S. military personnel, centered on the months following the raid.
Associated Press

PEARL HARBOR, Hawaii -- More than 2,000 World War II veterans and other observers commemorated the 67th anniversary of the devastating Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

At 7:55 a.m., the moment on the Sunday morning in 1941 when hundreds of Japanese planes began raining bombs and torpedoes onto Oahu's U.S. military ships and planes, onlookers across from the sunken USS Arizona went silent.

"It was an impossible beginning," Adm. Robert Willard, commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, said in his address. "Yet, look at us today." He noted that Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard recently celebrated 100 years of service and still maintains the far-reaching U.S. Pacific Fleet.

Underscoring how far Americans and Japanese have come since Dec. 7, 1941, President-elect Barack Obama in Chicago introduced retired Gen. Eric Shinseki, a Japanese American born in Hawaii a year after the attack, as his nominee to head the U.S.Veteran Affairs Department.

Several survivors of the attack were on hand for the commemoration, including one American veteran who traveled to Pearl Harbor for the very first time since World War II ended.


Sgt. John W. Eriksson of Mountain Home, Ark., was a Marine Corps rifleman assigned to an anti-aircraft battery when the attack began. But all he had to fire back was a pre- World War I bolt-action rifle.

"I felt I had to come back," he said of his first trip to a commemoration ceremony.

The theme of this year's remembrance-- "Pacific War Memories: The Heroic Response to Pearl Harbor" -- is something of a departure from the past.

Usually, the commemoration focuses on the attack on the USS Arizona, Pearl Harbor and several other installations on Oahu.

But today's remembrance, which was attended by scores of serving U.S. military officers and enlisted personnel, centered more on the months following the raid.

To that end, one of two keynote speakers was Thomas Griffin, a surviving member of the pilots and crew who answered the Pearl Harbor attack four months later with an aircraft carrier-launched bomber raid on Tokyo.

The B-25 mission, led by Lt. Col. James H. Doolittle, inflicted little damage on Japan but boosted morale in America and led the embarrassed Japanese government to launch an ill-fated attack on Midway Island six weeks afterwards.

Griffin, a retired major, said that immediately after the Pearl Harbor attack, he and his B-25 group based in Oregon flew over the West Coast searching for Japanese ships or submarines.

On one such mission, they almost sunk one, but called off the attack when the target turned out to be a whale, he said to laughter.

But weeks later, after training on the East Coast, Doolittle's bomber group took off from the aircraft carrier USS Hornet and attacked Tokyo.

"We took them by surprise," Griffin said.

He and his crew later landed in China and were whisked to safety by what he called the "free Chinese."

Sunday's commemoration featured a performance by the U.S. Pacific Fleet Band, morning colors, a Hawaiian blessing, a rifle salute by the U.S. Marine Corps and a recognition of those who survived the attack.

After the moment of silence observing the beginning of the attack, the destroyer USS Chung-Hoon rendered honors to the Arizona, which still lies beneath the harbor with its dead.

Nearly 2,400 Americans were killed and nearly 1,180 injured when Japanese fighters bombed and sank 12 naval vessels and heavily damaged nine others.

The Arizona, which sank in less than nine minutes after an armor-piercing bomb breached its deck and exploded in the ship's ammunition magazine, lost 1,177 sailors and marines. About 340 of its crew survived.

Other major installations on Oahu, such as Wheeler Field and Kaneohe Naval Air Station, also were attacked.

This year's ceremony came weeks after construction began on a new visitor's center for the USS Arizona Memorial. The existing center, which was built 28 years ago on reclaimed land, is sinking. Officials have said it will be unusable in a few years.

The event was held a half-mile away at Kilo Pier of Naval Station Pearl Harbor, site for next year's commemoration as well. The new visitor's center is scheduled to open Dec. 7, 2010.

Rick Farris wrote:

Chuck1052 wrote:I didn't see the fight tonight, but was wondering if it was similar to the first bout between Manny Pacquiao and Marco Antonio Barrera. I remember that Pacquiao was much too quick for Barrera, resulting in a lopsided win.

- Chuck Johnston

Manny never had an easier win than last night. Oscar was a lost ball in high grass. As Frank said, "Fighting is a young man's sport."

-Rick

Rick,

Watching Oscar getting beat up last night, took me back 48 years in time, when L.A.'s first Golden Boy, Art Aragon, fought his last fight against Alvaro Gutierrez, January 21,1960, connie and I were ringside for that fight and saw Aragon take a beating like De La Hoya did last night, Aragon like Oscar lost to one opponent that most fighters that keep fighting too long will eventually meet, no matter what the name of their opponent on that given night might be, you can say that they lost to "Kid Father Time".